Author Topic: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look: Conference Finals winners announced!!  (Read 89597 times)

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Offline freshinthehouse

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Ladies and gentlemen, here's your . . .
HOUSTON ROCKETS

THE ROSTER

Dwyane Wade  08-09 I chose this version of Wade over his his 2006 season where he ran roughshod in the playoffs on his way to a Finals MVP.  Wade was still at the peak of his powers in 09.  His 30.2ppg led the league, he made the all-defensive team, it was the first season he was will to shoot 3's.  Picking late in the first round, I wanted a guy that was two-way beast that has proven he can be an alpha dog on offense for a team, and drafting as late as I did I was worried I wouldnt get one.  Thankfully Wade was there.

James Harden 17-18  I went with Harden's MVP season.  Dude was dynamo that year, putting up crazy counting stats with 30ppg and 9apg.  While not a great defender, he is a playmaker, averaging 1.5ppg.  I also like that defensive metrics show that Harden does a solid job guarding bigger players, which makes him usable in switches.

Amar'e Stoudemire  04-05 I chose Amare's 04-05 season because it was pre-knee injury.  While prime Amare was a beast, his athleticism was otherworldly before the injury.  That year as a 22 year old he started 80 games as a center on 62 win Suns team, averaging 26ppg on 56% shooting.  While not a deep threat, he had one of the better mid range jumpers in the league, and was absolutely deadly when he put it on the floor.  And though not a great defender, he was a fine weakside shot blocker, averaging 1.6bpg.  He is going to thrive in PnR with Wade or Harden.  And he'll kill it in transition, as a 22 year old Amare would be on of the fastest bigs in this league.

Chris Bosh 09-10  A perfect complimentary big in today's game.  He could do it all.  Shoot, score, down low, run the court, rebound, and had a beautiful outside jumper.  I targeted Bosh for many of the same reasons i targeted amare.  I wanted bigs who had good jumpers, and could punish closeouts by putting it on the floor. 

Eddie Jones 99-00  I was so psyched to get Jones.  His 99-00 was great.  All-NBA and all-defensive team.  One of the best perimeter defenders of his era.  And he's a great open court finisher, and would be a killer on cutbacks, as he was a great finisher at the rim.  If he would've had a mid-game he wouldve been a 25ppg scorer in his prime.   He also shot 38% from 3 that season.  Dude is one of the best complimentary pieces in this league IMO.

Joe Johnson 04-05 I went with the 04-05 season because he shot an unreal 48% from downtown.  And to keep with a theme on my team, joe johnson is a fantastic creator off the dribble, so he will be able to destroy closeouts.  He would prove in ATL and Brooklyn that he could be the no.1 option on offense, and that an offense could run through him.  Dude was a steal in the 6th round.  Plus, he's one of the top 10 most clutch players of his era.  Dude was a killer late in games. If you don't believe me, check the youtubes!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_TCiGVsbyM

Antonio McDyess  00-01  Pre-knee injury McDyess was a beast.  Just an athletic freak that would back down to no one.  Amazing roll man in a PnR.  Great shotblocker and rebounder.  Also owned a nice midrange jumper.  Would've been much more lauded if he hadn't spent his prime years on a dysfunctional Nuggets franchise.

Kristaps Porzingas 19-20 The Unicorn.  A 7-3 freak that can shoot threes, drive to the hoop, and block shots. In 19-20 Porzingas was putting up 19/10 with 2 blocks a game for a playoff-caliber Mavs team.

Devin Booker 19-20 I chose DB's 19-20 season, where he became an all-star for the first time.  Dude is a deadly scorer, and has developed into a quality distributor, averaging 7apg.  Booker was very effecient in 19-20, shooting 49/36/92.  Those percentages should only improve now that he is no longer the only quality offensive weapon on his team. 

Brook Lopez 18-19  I was psyched to get Brook because in this Western Conference, you need to account for Shaquille O'Neal.  Brook will be a phenomenal anti-Shaq weapon.  He is 7 feet tall and weighs 270 pounds, making him one of the largest players in this league.  His outside shot (he shot 37% from 3 in 18-19) will force Shaq to defend him on the perimeter.  He is also one of the better defensive big men of his time, averaging 2.4bpg.  He and Arvydas are the savvy veteran big men this team needed

Arvydas Sabonis 99-00  He's not my vydas.  He's not your vydas.  He's our Arvydas.  In the twilight of his career in 99-00, Arvy was still a beat in limited minutes.  And at 7'3" and nearly 300 pounds he will pair with Brook to provide some of the best anti-shaq defense this league has to offer.  And like Brook, Arvy can make Shaq get out from under the hoop thanks to his outstanding outside jumper.  plus, we can run the offense through Arvy in the high post, just to give teams another look to deal with.
 
Mike Bibby 02-03  In 02-30 Mike Bibby was the starting point guard on a 59 win Kings team.  He was ultra-efficient, shooting 47/41/86.  He's a sweet shooting vet with playoff experience, and will make a nice component at the end of the Rockets' bench.

Eric Bledsoe 19-20  This season Bledsoe was the starting point guard on a Bucks teams that would've won well over 60 games.  He's coming off an all-defensive team nod, and would likely have been in the running.  Never known as a great shooter, Bledsoe shot a respectable 35% from deep this year.  Bledsoe will be a nice defensive specialist off the bench.

John Collins  19-20  Collins' 19-20 season was off the charts.  He averaged 22/10 along with 1.6bpg.  He shot an incredible 58% from the field, while also shooting 40% from deep, along with 80% from the line.  It's absurd that he was available in the last round.  He's the perfect power forward for today's NBA.  Will be able to fit in seamlessly if my big man rotation was to ever fall prey to injury.

THE STARTING LINEUP:

DWAYNE WADE / JAMES HARDEN / EDDIE JONES / CHRIS BOSH / AMARE STOUDEMIRE

Love this team.  Wade and Harden can both initiate the offense.  Tons of different directions this team can go.  Either Wade or Harden can run pick n rolls with Stoudamire or Bosh.  Wade and Harden can create on their own on the perimeter, and both Bosh and Stoudemire can produce in the high post.  So.  Many.  Options.  And as required with most Wade-centric teams, this lineup surrounds him with shooters. But mostly, with this team, we want to run.  Outside of Harden these guys are all freak athletes.  And Harden is a great creator in transition, and he's also the owner of an amazing pull-up 3 point shot.  This team will be gonzo on the run.  Dunk City.

Defensively, Wade and Jones are monsters on the perimeter.  Harden will guard the weakest option.  Both Bosh and Amare are athletic enough to stick with today's quicker 4's.  Both Bosh and Amare are also sold weak-side help defenders.  But what about when you have to guard Shaq, you ask? 

THE "OH CRAP, SHAQ'S BACK!" STARTING LINEUP

DWAYNE WADE / JAMES HARDEN / EDDIE JONES / AMARE STOUDEMIRE / BROOK LOPEZ

This lineup will feature Lopez to combat Shaq, or anything other big 5 that proves to be too much for Amare.  Amare moves to the 4.  Bosh becomes first big off the bench.  Arvydas will also feature a big role off the bench.

ROTATION BENCH GUYS:
Antonio McDyess and Krinaps Porzingas will sub in for Bosh and Amare, fitting in seamlessly as hyper athletic freaks who will run, rebound, finish at the hoop, and block shots.  Krisnaps will also be a threat from 3.  Joe Johnson and Devin Booker will provide shooting and playmaking off the bench.  Arydas and Brook will do their thing when needed against bigger opponents.  Bibby will pick up a few minutes every game as a steady hand at the point guard spot.

END OF THE BENCH:

Eric Bledsoe will be a defensive specialist that occasionally picks up minutes against premier.  Thinking guys like Curry and Iverson.  John Collins will politely wait at the end of the bench until he has to fill in due to injury.

SYNOPSIS

This team will simply be too much for most teams to handle.  Too much athleticism.  Too much skill.  Minimal weak spots on defense.  It can just keep pouring all-star caliber offensive weapons at you.  Every big can shoot from at least mid-range, and besides Lopez, all can put it on the floor.  And they all average at least 1bpg. 

And what I think is underrated about this squad is the lack of knuckleheads on this lineup.  Since I don't have that Duncan-type vet who can demand respect, I wanted everyone to be pretty level-headed.  Not a lot jerks on this lineup.  Just a bunch of dudes that lace up their shoes and ball.  And you have guys like McDyess, Arvydas, and Lopez who will insure they don't get pushed around. 



Offline Roy H.

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You mentioned D-Wade. Remember the first season of the big 3 in Miami? Wade was unhappy, cause he didn't like playing second fiddle to Bron. It was only after the failure of that season that Wade started accepting his role. The Heat became a better team, but Wade paid a hefty price in the process. He was never the same player ever again.

Interesting.  That’s not the narrative as I learned it.  I was under the impression that LeBron deferred too much to Wade that first season, worried that he would step on toes.  I don’t remember Wade having any issue about his role however.  Bosh sacrificed, but I think Wade maintained a large role both in terms of scoring and ball-handling.


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Offline theswitch

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This was my ranking:

1. Boston Celtics
2. Milwaukee Bucks
3. Miami Heat
4. Los Angeles Clippers
5. Brooklyn Nets
6. Oklahoma City Thunder
7. Indiana Pacers
8. Dallas Mavericks
9. Utah Jazz
10. Philadelphia 76ers
11. Denver Nuggets
12. Los Angeles Lakers
13. Houston Rockets

Fascinating that, looking at all the revealed rankings, it's really hard to draw any conclusions (other than people like the Bucks). Celtics were low for someone. Sixers, Lakers, Jazz are low for you. I really don't know what to expect tomorrow.
2023 Historical Draft: Toronto Raptors

Point Guard: Anfernee Hardaway, Fat Lever, Terrell Brandon
Shooting Guard: Paul Westphal, Paul Pressey
Small Forward: Marques Johnson, Danny Granger
Power Forward: Jermaine O'Neal, Bobby Jones, Kiki Vandeweghe
Center: Marc Gasol, Serge Ibaka

Offline Somebody

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This was my ranking:

1. Boston Celtics
2. Milwaukee Bucks
3. Miami Heat
4. Los Angeles Clippers
5. Brooklyn Nets
6. Oklahoma City Thunder
7. Indiana Pacers
8. Dallas Mavericks
9. Utah Jazz
10. Philadelphia 76ers
11. Denver Nuggets
12. Los Angeles Lakers
13. Houston Rockets

Fascinating that, looking at all the revealed rankings, it's really hard to draw any conclusions (other than people like the Bucks). Celtics were low for someone. Sixers, Lakers, Jazz are low for you. I really don't know what to expect tomorrow.
I really didn't like how the 76ers built their supporting cast - it put them in the middle of nowhere on both ends of the court (even with a cheat code like LeBron). I think the Jazz were in that 4-9ish range where teams were bunched up together, so my assessment of them wasn't as [dang]ing as the ranking I assigned them. The Lakers have a weird defence and a very good but not quite elite offence imo, and that weird fit unfortunately lead to a low ranking with how good these teams are.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Offline Jvalin

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You mentioned D-Wade. Remember the first season of the big 3 in Miami? Wade was unhappy, cause he didn't like playing second fiddle to Bron. It was only after the failure of that season that Wade started accepting his role. The Heat became a better team, but Wade paid a hefty price in the process. He was never the same player ever again.

Interesting.  That’s not the narrative as I learned it.  I was under the impression that LeBron deferred too much to Wade that first season, worried that he would step on toes.  I don’t remember Wade having any issue about his role however.  Bosh sacrificed, but I think Wade maintained a large role both in terms of scoring and ball-handling.
That's my point right there: "Wade maintained a large role both in terms of scoring and ball-handling". To put it another way, he was unwilling to play second fiddle to Bron.


Quote
I don't remember Wade having any issue about his role however
I believe I heard it in a youtube video from the Ringer. It was either Simmons or Russillo. Don't remember exactly which video though. I'll check my browser history and may post the video tomorrow.

Offline Roy H.

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You mentioned D-Wade. Remember the first season of the big 3 in Miami? Wade was unhappy, cause he didn't like playing second fiddle to Bron. It was only after the failure of that season that Wade started accepting his role. The Heat became a better team, but Wade paid a hefty price in the process. He was never the same player ever again.

Interesting.  That’s not the narrative as I learned it.  I was under the impression that LeBron deferred too much to Wade that first season, worried that he would step on toes.  I don’t remember Wade having any issue about his role however.  Bosh sacrificed, but I think Wade maintained a large role both in terms of scoring and ball-handling.
That's my point right there: "Wade maintained a large role both in terms of scoring and ball-handling". To put it another way, he was unwilling to play second fiddle to Bron.

I just don’t think there is evidence of this. Teams can have multiple scores and multiple facilitators.  It was the blueprint in Miami and they blueprint the second time around in Cleveland.


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Offline Roy H.

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(LeBron, Shaq, Durant) ... are just simply on a tier above everyone else,

Other guys aside, I really think Tim Duncan has become underrated since his retirement.  He was better than Durant, and arguably Shaq.


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Offline Somebody

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(LeBron, Shaq, Durant) ... are just simply on a tier above everyone else,

Other guys aside, I really think Tim Duncan has become underrated since his retirement.  He was better than Durant, and arguably Shaq.
Garnett as well, he was neck and neck with Duncan during his prime, and imo had the better two year apex.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Offline Somebody

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You mentioned D-Wade. Remember the first season of the big 3 in Miami? Wade was unhappy, cause he didn't like playing second fiddle to Bron. It was only after the failure of that season that Wade started accepting his role. The Heat became a better team, but Wade paid a hefty price in the process. He was never the same player ever again.

Interesting.  That’s not the narrative as I learned it.  I was under the impression that LeBron deferred too much to Wade that first season, worried that he would step on toes.  I don’t remember Wade having any issue about his role however.  Bosh sacrificed, but I think Wade maintained a large role both in terms of scoring and ball-handling.
That's my point right there: "Wade maintained a large role both in terms of scoring and ball-handling". To put it another way, he was unwilling to play second fiddle to Bron.

I just don’t think there is evidence of this. Teams can have multiple scores and multiple facilitators.  It was the blueprint in Miami and they blueprint the second time around in Cleveland.
Which led to diminishing returns for the Miami offence.
Quote
With better talent in Miami (and later in his Cleveland redux), his teams reached greater offensive altitudes, although, in traditional lineups their efficiencies were only slightly improved (indicating diminishing returns). Paired next to another superstar wing in Miami, LeBron scaled back his ball-dominance, and although those Heat teams never produced an all-time level point differential, every full-strength Heatles lineup bested LeBron’s Cavs on offense (per relative offensive rating).



The best four-year offenses in NBA history have finished about 7 points ahead of the league. At full-strength, Nash’s Suns were nearly 10 points better from 2005-08, although they were small-balling lineups at the expense of defense. LeBron’s teams downsized at times too, and his best full-strength four-year offense was +8.1 (2013-16), in the upper stratosphere historically.

He never again matched the video-game numbers from his first MVP seasons in Cleveland, not because he was worse, but because he tapered down his on-ball role. He actually ramped up his solo performance when Wade went to the bench, improving both his volume and efficiency (!) as the Heat outscored opponent’s by 6.9 points per 100 with LeBron on the court and Wade off it from 2011-14. In his last two years there, Miami was +8.3 per 100 with James on and Wade off.9 Again, this speaks to the floor-raising power of a great quarterback.
https://backpicks.com/2018/04/05/backpicks-goat-3-lebron-james/
Although I think Jvalin should've kept LeBron, I think his point of having two ball dominant guys would cause fit issues in an offence is perfectly valid. The reason why LeBron's Cleveland 2.0 offences were so good was because Kyrie was able to play off ball extremely well besides being an on ball engine, which helped him add significant value to LeBron-led offences.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Offline Roy H.

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You mentioned D-Wade. Remember the first season of the big 3 in Miami? Wade was unhappy, cause he didn't like playing second fiddle to Bron. It was only after the failure of that season that Wade started accepting his role. The Heat became a better team, but Wade paid a hefty price in the process. He was never the same player ever again.

Interesting.  That’s not the narrative as I learned it.  I was under the impression that LeBron deferred too much to Wade that first season, worried that he would step on toes.  I don’t remember Wade having any issue about his role however.  Bosh sacrificed, but I think Wade maintained a large role both in terms of scoring and ball-handling.
That's my point right there: "Wade maintained a large role both in terms of scoring and ball-handling". To put it another way, he was unwilling to play second fiddle to Bron.

I just don’t think there is evidence of this. Teams can have multiple scores and multiple facilitators.  It was the blueprint in Miami and they blueprint the second time around in Cleveland.
Which led to diminishing returns for the Miami offence.
Quote
With better talent in Miami (and later in his Cleveland redux), his teams reached greater offensive altitudes, although, in traditional lineups their efficiencies were only slightly improved (indicating diminishing returns). Paired next to another superstar wing in Miami, LeBron scaled back his ball-dominance, and although those Heat teams never produced an all-time level point differential, every full-strength Heatles lineup bested LeBron’s Cavs on offense (per relative offensive rating).



The best four-year offenses in NBA history have finished about 7 points ahead of the league. At full-strength, Nash’s Suns were nearly 10 points better from 2005-08, although they were small-balling lineups at the expense of defense. LeBron’s teams downsized at times too, and his best full-strength four-year offense was +8.1 (2013-16), in the upper stratosphere historically.

He never again matched the video-game numbers from his first MVP seasons in Cleveland, not because he was worse, but because he tapered down his on-ball role. He actually ramped up his solo performance when Wade went to the bench, improving both his volume and efficiency (!) as the Heat outscored opponent’s by 6.9 points per 100 with LeBron on the court and Wade off it from 2011-14. In his last two years there, Miami was +8.3 per 100 with James on and Wade off.9 Again, this speaks to the floor-raising power of a great quarterback.
https://backpicks.com/2018/04/05/backpicks-goat-3-lebron-james/
Although I think Jvalin should've kept LeBron, I think his point of having two ball dominant guys would cause fit issues in an offence is perfectly valid. The reason why LeBron's Cleveland 2.0 offences were so good was because Kyrie was able to play off ball extremely well besides being an on ball engine, which helped him add significant value to LeBron-led offences.

Your link says that the offense in Miami (where he shared with a ball dominant partner) was better than in Cleveland (where it was he and Mo Williams). 

Lebron and Wade won two titles together.  It’s pretty weird to hear that those two couldn’t play effectively together.

Or, look at the Rockets.  They’ve got Harden and Westbrook, two of the more ball-dominant players in recent history.  They’re 3rd and 6th in usage on the same team! Yet, they’ve got the second best offensive rating in the NBA.


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Offline bdm860

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You mentioned D-Wade. Remember the first season of the big 3 in Miami? Wade was unhappy, cause he didn't like playing second fiddle to Bron. It was only after the failure of that season that Wade started accepting his role. The Heat became a better team, but Wade paid a hefty price in the process. He was never the same player ever again.

Interesting.  That’s not the narrative as I learned it.  I was under the impression that LeBron deferred too much to Wade that first season, worried that he would step on toes.  I don’t remember Wade having any issue about his role however.  Bosh sacrificed, but I think Wade maintained a large role both in terms of scoring and ball-handling.
That's my point right there: "Wade maintained a large role both in terms of scoring and ball-handling". To put it another way, he was unwilling to play second fiddle to Bron.

I just don’t think there is evidence of this. Teams can have multiple scores and multiple facilitators.  It was the blueprint in Miami and they blueprint the second time around in Cleveland.
Which led to diminishing returns for the Miami offence.
Quote
With better talent in Miami (and later in his Cleveland redux), his teams reached greater offensive altitudes, although, in traditional lineups their efficiencies were only slightly improved (indicating diminishing returns). Paired next to another superstar wing in Miami, LeBron scaled back his ball-dominance, and although those Heat teams never produced an all-time level point differential, every full-strength Heatles lineup bested LeBron’s Cavs on offense (per relative offensive rating).



The best four-year offenses in NBA history have finished about 7 points ahead of the league. At full-strength, Nash’s Suns were nearly 10 points better from 2005-08, although they were small-balling lineups at the expense of defense. LeBron’s teams downsized at times too, and his best full-strength four-year offense was +8.1 (2013-16), in the upper stratosphere historically.

He never again matched the video-game numbers from his first MVP seasons in Cleveland, not because he was worse, but because he tapered down his on-ball role. He actually ramped up his solo performance when Wade went to the bench, improving both his volume and efficiency (!) as the Heat outscored opponent’s by 6.9 points per 100 with LeBron on the court and Wade off it from 2011-14. In his last two years there, Miami was +8.3 per 100 with James on and Wade off.9 Again, this speaks to the floor-raising power of a great quarterback.
https://backpicks.com/2018/04/05/backpicks-goat-3-lebron-james/
Although I think Jvalin should've kept LeBron, I think his point of having two ball dominant guys would cause fit issues in an offence is perfectly valid. The reason why LeBron's Cleveland 2.0 offences were so good was because Kyrie was able to play off ball extremely well besides being an on ball engine, which helped him add significant value to LeBron-led offences.

Your link says that the offense in Miami (where he shared with a ball dominant partner) was better than in Cleveland (where it was he and Mo Williams). 

Lebron and Wade won two titles together.  It’s pretty weird to hear that those two couldn’t play effectively together.

Or, look at the Rockets.  They’ve got Harden and Westbrook, two of the more ball-dominant players in recent history.  They’re 3rd and 6th in usage on the same team! Yet, they’ve got the second best offensive rating in the NBA.

I might be one of the rare posters that somewhat agrees with Jvalin.

1. I'm really high on Kawhi.  I think you could even justify taking him as high as #3.  He gives you 90% of LeBron's offense but 110% of his defense, with none of the media circus or primadonna moves.  I think if Kawhi didn't rank as a 0 in the marketability/charisma category, people might think more highly of him.  Really think it's a shame for the '20 season being what it is, a great story was probably going to be written (likely for either LeBron, Kawhi, or Giannis).  For Kawhi, very good chance he might have won his 3rd title by 29, on his 3rd team, taking down both LeBron and Giannis in the process.  That would be a contender for an all-time great résumé in my book.

2.  LeBron won with others because LeBron is great, not because the teams played that well together.  People were expecting Miami to win every year and never lose a game.  LeBron won as many games in a single season in Cleveland (66) with Mo Williams as the 2nd best player as he did in Miami with a super team.  More 60 win seasons (2) in his first run in Cleveland than he had total in Miami (1).  Miami was challenged every year in the playoffs either getting beat or taken to 7 games.  People expected GS level dominance out of LeBron in Miami, and we didn't get it.  To me, that's because they didn't mesh well.  I don't think LeBron and Kyrie meshed that well either when LeBron went back to CLE.  What I saw with LeBron and Wade/Kyrie was great players taking turns rather than meshing well together.   LeBron was just good enough (in the regular NBA) to overcome an imperfect fit some seasons, but I can see an argument where he'd be unable to will his way to victory in this fantasy league if it's not a good fit.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 01:19:29 AM by bdm860 »

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Offline action781

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(LeBron, Shaq, Durant) ... are just simply on a tier above everyone else,

Other guys aside, I really think Tim Duncan has become underrated since his retirement.  He was better than Durant, and arguably Shaq.
Garnett as well, he was neck and neck with Duncan during his prime, and imo had the better two year apex.

My rankings were
1) Lebron
2) Shaq
3) Duncan

I had KG at #5 while only being a tad bit behind Duncan.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Offline Somebody

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You mentioned D-Wade. Remember the first season of the big 3 in Miami? Wade was unhappy, cause he didn't like playing second fiddle to Bron. It was only after the failure of that season that Wade started accepting his role. The Heat became a better team, but Wade paid a hefty price in the process. He was never the same player ever again.

Interesting.  That’s not the narrative as I learned it.  I was under the impression that LeBron deferred too much to Wade that first season, worried that he would step on toes.  I don’t remember Wade having any issue about his role however.  Bosh sacrificed, but I think Wade maintained a large role both in terms of scoring and ball-handling.
That's my point right there: "Wade maintained a large role both in terms of scoring and ball-handling". To put it another way, he was unwilling to play second fiddle to Bron.

I just don’t think there is evidence of this. Teams can have multiple scores and multiple facilitators.  It was the blueprint in Miami and they blueprint the second time around in Cleveland.
Which led to diminishing returns for the Miami offence.
Quote
With better talent in Miami (and later in his Cleveland redux), his teams reached greater offensive altitudes, although, in traditional lineups their efficiencies were only slightly improved (indicating diminishing returns). Paired next to another superstar wing in Miami, LeBron scaled back his ball-dominance, and although those Heat teams never produced an all-time level point differential, every full-strength Heatles lineup bested LeBron’s Cavs on offense (per relative offensive rating).



The best four-year offenses in NBA history have finished about 7 points ahead of the league. At full-strength, Nash’s Suns were nearly 10 points better from 2005-08, although they were small-balling lineups at the expense of defense. LeBron’s teams downsized at times too, and his best full-strength four-year offense was +8.1 (2013-16), in the upper stratosphere historically.

He never again matched the video-game numbers from his first MVP seasons in Cleveland, not because he was worse, but because he tapered down his on-ball role. He actually ramped up his solo performance when Wade went to the bench, improving both his volume and efficiency (!) as the Heat outscored opponent’s by 6.9 points per 100 with LeBron on the court and Wade off it from 2011-14. In his last two years there, Miami was +8.3 per 100 with James on and Wade off.9 Again, this speaks to the floor-raising power of a great quarterback.
https://backpicks.com/2018/04/05/backpicks-goat-3-lebron-james/
Although I think Jvalin should've kept LeBron, I think his point of having two ball dominant guys would cause fit issues in an offence is perfectly valid. The reason why LeBron's Cleveland 2.0 offences were so good was because Kyrie was able to play off ball extremely well besides being an on ball engine, which helped him add significant value to LeBron-led offences.

Your link says that the offense in Miami (where he shared with a ball dominant partner) was better than in Cleveland (where it was he and Mo Williams). 

Lebron and Wade won two titles together.  It’s pretty weird to hear that those two couldn’t play effectively together.

Or, look at the Rockets.  They’ve got Harden and Westbrook, two of the more ball-dominant players in recent history.  They’re 3rd and 6th in usage on the same team! Yet, they’ve got the second best offensive rating in the NBA.
I said diminishing returns, not an ineffective offence.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

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(LeBron, Shaq, Durant) ... are just simply on a tier above everyone else,

Other guys aside, I really think Tim Duncan has become underrated since his retirement.  He was better than Durant, and arguably Shaq.
Garnett as well, he was neck and neck with Duncan during his prime, and imo had the better two year apex.

My rankings were
1) Lebron
2) Shaq
3) Duncan

I had KG at #5 while only being a tad bit behind Duncan.
My rankings were:
1. LeBron
2. KG (8))
3. Shaq
4. Curry
5. Duncan
Edit: I might've had Curry at 3, forgot the exact ranking of him and Shaq on my board. They were incredibly close in my mind.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 01:45:47 AM by Somebody »
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

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Some surprising choices of seasons for a few players I noticed:
Kobe 2002-03 -- I would have expected one of his 5 championship seasons
DWade 2008-09 -- I thought 2005-06 was a lock originally, but upon further thought this isn't a bad choice at all
Carmelo 2012-13 -- I thought 2008-09 was his best season when he took Denver to the WCF
Jordan 2002-03 -- I guess he has better shooting %s this season than the one prior but I have trouble saying 39-year-old MJ is better than 38-year-old MJ.  Hard to remember any real difference though.
Tim Duncan 2001-02 -- Nitpicking here maybe but I would have chosen the season after when he won MVP AND the title.
Eric Bledsoe 2019-20 -- I think his peak was like 4-5 years ago which if I'm bringing him off the bench in a small role is the Eric Bledsoe that I want
Iverson 2004-05 -- I think if you draft him then you use him for his best and IMO his best was 2000-01.  But I guess he was a pretty similar player over that 4 year span and maybe I'm just weighing an MVP award too heavily here.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur