Could Vince Carter Be a HoFer?

[Fafnir]

The NBA needs to have its own HOF for guys like Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Grant Hill, Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Stephon Marbury, Spreewell's, Shawn Kemp's,Antawn Jamison's, Shareef Abdur-Rahim's, guys like that,from all of the different era's.

Because, although these guys weren't/aren't mega-superstars and dont have their jersey's retired, they weren't just regualar players or the average NBA athlete, they all have or had meaningful career accomplishments, and their careers should not be forgotten.

While I agree that the NBA should have its own all of fame, most of those guys wouldn't make the cut for even an NBA only hall of fame.

Antwan Jamison historically isn't all that good, neither was Marbury, and neither was Rip, etc....

[ibby]

The Basketball HOF in springfield to me, is for the Jordan's, the Bird's, the Wilt's, the Magic's, the Olajuwons, the Iverson's, the Barkley's, the Shaq's, etc.

The NBA needs to have its own HOF for guys like Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Grant Hill, Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Stephon Marbury, Spreewell's, Shawn Kemp's,Antawn Jamison's, Shareef Abdur-Rahim's, guys like that,from all of the different era's.

Antwan Jamison and Abdur-Rahim are kind of a stretch by even lax standards, but I see what you mean.

It would be nice if there was some kind of rubric.  All-NBA team= x points, MVP=x points, All Star=x points, DPOY=x points.  And a certain points gets you in, but when you consider that Springfield honors everyone from international players we may have never heard of, to NCAA players who didn't make it as pros, to journalists and announcers it is difficult to create such a rubric without a hall only for the NBA.

[Roy Hobbs]

The NBA needs to have its own HOF for guys like Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Grant Hill, Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Stephon Marbury, Spreewell's, Shawn Kemp's,Antawn Jamison's, Shareef Abdur-Rahim's, guys like that,from all of the different era's.

Because, although these guys weren't/aren't mega-superstars and dont have their jersey's retired, they weren't just regualar players or the average NBA athlete, they all have or had meaningful career accomplishments, and their careers should not be forgotten.

While I agree that the NBA should have its own all of fame, most of those guys wouldn't make the cut for even an NBA only hall of fame.

Antwan Jamison historically isn't all that good, neither was Marbury, and neither was Rip, etc....

Maybe the NBA could have exhibits / highlights of the all-star teams from every year, but I agree, guys like most of those above don't deserve any sort of enshrinement.  

[Fafnir]

So who's a current HoF among active players?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob_active.html

This is basketball referrence's list based on data mining how the HoF has selected players in the past. I think the list has solid locks until the 12th selection, which happens to be Vince Carter.

1. Shaquille O'Neal 1.0000
2. Kobe Bryant 0.9999
3. Tim Duncan 0.9998
4. Allen Iverson 0.9977
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9971
6. LeBron James 0.9801
7. Dwyane Wade 0.9758
8. Paul Pierce 0.9535
9. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9105
10. Jason Kidd 0.9073
11. Ray Allen 0.9072

12. Vince Carter 0.8662
13. Tracy McGrady 0.7476
14. Tony Parker 0.5183
15. Grant Hill 0.4794
16. Gilbert Arenas 0.4569
17. Chris Bosh 0.4305
18. Amare Stoudemire 0.4246
19. Carmelo Anthony 0.4078
20. Steve Nash 0.3654
21. Dwight Howard 0.2877
22. Pau Gasol 0.2361
23. Chauncey Billups 0.2162
24. Shawn Marion 0.2111
25. Elton Brand 0.1586
26. Antawn Jamison 0.0861
27. Carlos Boozer 0.0842

Of this list I think Pau Gasol and Nash are shoe ins (international guys), but none of the rest will make it currently. Obviously young guys like Melo/Howard have a lot of time to get there.

[soap07]

Vince is absolutely a lock - and should be. For all his lack of playoff success, what team was he on that was supposed to go farther than it did? It's not like he's TMac and never been out of the first round. In the prime of his career, he was a Top-10 player. When he wasn't in his prime, he's in the top 30, at least.

One of the biggest misperceptions of Vince is that he has no work ethic, post-Toronto. He played very hard for the Nets and Jason Kidd not wanting to be there was the bigger problem. Is  Paul Pierce a better player? Yes, but that doesn't mean Vince wasn't great in his own right.

[soap07]

The NBA needs to have its own HOF for guys like Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Grant Hill, Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Stephon Marbury, Spreewell's, Shawn Kemp's,Antawn Jamison's, Shareef Abdur-Rahim's, guys like that,from all of the different era's.

Carter's career is at least twice all of those mentioned.

[moiso]

It would take a couple more years of excellent basketball, especially in the playoffs.  The allstar appearences mean nothing since he was usually voted in because of his dunking appeal.  The scant all nba team selections tell the real story.

[moiso]

The NBA needs to have its own HOF for guys like Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Grant Hill, Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Stephon Marbury, Spreewell's, Shawn Kemp's,Antawn Jamison's, Shareef Abdur-Rahim's, guys like that,from all of the different era's.

Carter's career is at least twice all of those mentioned.

I don't think Carter or any of those guys belong, with a little bit of consideration for Wallace.  If you have to think about it too hard, they don't belong.  It devalues the hall of fame if every clown who had a few good years gets inducted.

[nickagneta]

Dominique Wilkins made it in so I don't see how Vince Carter wouldn't

[ibby]

The NBA needs to have its own HOF for guys like Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Grant Hill, Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Stephon Marbury, Spreewell's, Shawn Kemp's,Antawn Jamison's, Shareef Abdur-Rahim's, guys like that,from all of the different era's.

Carter's career is at least twice all of those mentioned.

Random Aside- I would say you're right, other than Grant Hill who --lest we forget-- was the face of the league for 5 or 6 years.  The stats may look very similar (Carter's may even be a bit better), but Hill has made 5 All-NBA teams, where Carter has made 2.  Hill also finished 3rd in MVP voting during his peak year, Carter has never come close.

Dominique Wilkins made it in so I don't see how Vince Carter wouldn't

Carter does not equal Wilkins.  Wilkins was an elite player, always one of the top 5-10 players in the league when he was in his prime.  He most likely would have been a 2 or 3x champion if not for the Celtics and 76ers.

This year is the first time that Carter has even had a shot at a championship. I don't remember if he was on either of the Nets squads that made the finals (which says something).

[moiso]

Dominique Wilkins made it in so I don't see how Vince Carter wouldn't

They are both offensive minded but it seems to me that Wilkins was far more respected and feared by his peers.  He was twice the competitor of Carter.  Wilkins was one of the legitimate main men in the nba for like 10 years.  Numbers aside, Carter has been looked at as a talented joke for a lot of his career.

[fairweatherfan]

The NBA needs to have its own HOF for guys like Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Grant Hill, Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Stephon Marbury, Spreewell's, Shawn Kemp's,Antawn Jamison's, Shareef Abdur-Rahim's, guys like that,from all of the different era's.

Carter's career is at least twice all of those mentioned.

I don't think Carter or any of those guys belong, with a little bit of consideration for Wallace.  If you have to think about it too hard, they don't belong.  It devalues the hall of fame if every clown who had a few good years gets inducted.

I think Grant Hill's gonna make it, if only because it's the Basketball HOF, not the NBA HOF.  And Hill was probably better than VC ever was at his peak.

I think Carter'll get in whether he gets a title or not.  Only 2 eligible players (Mitch Richmond + Tom Chambers) with 20k points have been left out of the HOF, and neither got near 21k.  Carter will get to 20k next year and will probably retire with 22-26k.  He won't be 1st ballot, and I wouldn't vote for him, but the numbers will eventually overwhelm the voters.  A title just gets him in quicker.

[nickagneta]

So who's a current HoF among active players?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob_active.html

This is basketball referrence's list based on data mining how the HoF has selected players in the past. I think the list has solid locks until the 12th selection, which happens to be Vince Carter.

1. Shaquille O'Neal 1.0000
2. Kobe Bryant 0.9999
3. Tim Duncan 0.9998
4. Allen Iverson 0.9977
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9971
6. LeBron James 0.9801
7. Dwyane Wade 0.9758
8. Paul Pierce 0.9535
9. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9105
10. Jason Kidd 0.9073
11. Ray Allen 0.9072

12. Vince Carter 0.8662
13. Tracy McGrady 0.7476
14. Tony Parker 0.5183
15. Grant Hill 0.4794
16. Gilbert Arenas 0.4569
17. Chris Bosh 0.4305
18. Amare Stoudemire 0.4246
19. Carmelo Anthony 0.4078
20. Steve Nash 0.3654
21. Dwight Howard 0.2877
22. Pau Gasol 0.2361
23. Chauncey Billups 0.2162
24. Shawn Marion 0.2111
25. Elton Brand 0.1586
26. Antawn Jamison 0.0861
27. Carlos Boozer 0.0842

Of this list I think Pau Gasol and Nash are shoe ins (international guys), but none of the rest will make it currently. Obviously young guys like Melo/Howard have a lot of time to get there.

This I don't understand at all. NO league MVP that is not currently eligible for the Hall of Fame is not IN the Hall of Fame. Thinking that a 2-time back to back MVP of the league is not a shoe in for induction is patently absurd given the Hall's history.

[moiso]

So who's a current HoF among active players?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob_active.html

This is basketball referrence's list based on data mining how the HoF has selected players in the past. I think the list has solid locks until the 12th selection, which happens to be Vince Carter.

1. Shaquille O'Neal 1.0000
2. Kobe Bryant 0.9999
3. Tim Duncan 0.9998
4. Allen Iverson 0.9977
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9971
6. LeBron James 0.9801
7. Dwyane Wade 0.9758
8. Paul Pierce 0.9535
9. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9105
10. Jason Kidd 0.9073
11. Ray Allen 0.9072

12. Vince Carter 0.8662
13. Tracy McGrady 0.7476
14. Tony Parker 0.5183
15. Grant Hill 0.4794
16. Gilbert Arenas 0.4569
17. Chris Bosh 0.4305
18. Amare Stoudemire 0.4246
19. Carmelo Anthony 0.4078
20. Steve Nash 0.3654
21. Dwight Howard 0.2877
22. Pau Gasol 0.2361
23. Chauncey Billups 0.2162
24. Shawn Marion 0.2111
25. Elton Brand 0.1586
26. Antawn Jamison 0.0861
27. Carlos Boozer 0.0842

Of this list I think Pau Gasol and Nash are shoe ins (international guys), but none of the rest will make it currently. Obviously young guys like Melo/Howard have a lot of time to get there.

This I don't understand at all. NO league MVP that is not currently eligible for the Hall of Fame is not IN the Hall of Fame. Thinking that a 2-time back to back MVP of the league is not a shoe in for induction is patently absurd given the Hall's history.

True.  That is ridiculous.

[BballTim]

The NBA needs to have its own HOF for guys like Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Grant Hill, Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Stephon Marbury, Spreewell's, Shawn Kemp's,Antawn Jamison's, Shareef Abdur-Rahim's, guys like that,from all of the different era's.

Carter's career is at least twice all of those mentioned.

  I don't think Vince had twice the career Kemp did and you'd have a hard time convincing most people that he had a better career than Ben Wallace. The best years of Vince's career were his first few in the league, he hasn't sniffed an all-nba team in almost a decade, and didn't he admit to tanking for almost half a season to get traded?