Author Topic: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford  (Read 7331 times)

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Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2019, 06:51:43 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Grant Williams and Carsen Edwards for Matisse Thybulle



Minor correction:   Ty Jerome (24th) and Carsen Edwards (33rd) for Matisse Thybulle

Grant Williams was picked (22nd) with C's own pick.

Ty Jerome and Aron Baynes then went to Suns for Bucks 1st rd pick next year.

For about a half an hour or so a lot of stuff was happening quickly for the C's on draft night.  :)
That's all true. So, my bad, my general thinking is that: Ainge liked and wanted Williams and if he didn't trade the Thybulle pick, would have taken Williams there. But he knew he could get him later so moved the Thybulle pick and in doing so got the early second that turned into Edwards and could still draft the man he originally wanted higher in the draft, Grant Williams.

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2019, 07:31:56 PM »

Offline gpap

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Just got off the phone with Elton Brand and sent him my regards.

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2019, 08:34:58 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Grant Williams and Carsen Edwards for Matisse Thybulle



Minor correction:   Ty Jerome (24th) and Carsen Edwards (33rd) for Matisse Thybulle

Grant Williams was picked (22nd) with C's own pick.

Ty Jerome and Aron Baynes then went to Suns for Bucks 1st rd pick next year.

For about a half an hour or so a lot of stuff was happening quickly for the C's on draft night.  :)
That's all true. So, my bad, my general thinking is that: Ainge liked and wanted Williams and if he didn't trade the Thybulle pick, would have taken Williams there. But he knew he could get him later so moved the Thybulle pick and in doing so got the early second that turned into Edwards and could still draft the man he originally wanted higher in the draft, Grant Williams.

Based on Memphis trading up from 23 to 21 to leapfrog us at 22, I think it likely that we would have taken Brandon Clarke at 20 had we passed on Thubulle.

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2019, 09:26:59 PM »

Offline liam

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I think it strange that people can be down on Edwards or Langford in any way. Remember, both are now Celtics because Danny fleeced the Sixers into giving up extra assets just to assure they got the players they wanted. The Sixers desperately wanted Markelle Fultz in 2017 and Matisse Thybulle this year and Boston was in front of them in both drafts. So, Danny ended up trading down in both drafts with Philly and ended up with trades that ended up being:

Jayson Tatum and Romeo Langford for Markelle Fultz.

Grant Williams and Carsen Edwards for Matisse Thybulle

Now, Ainge most likely would have taken both Tatum and Williams in the draft positions they traded out of, but Philly thought their guys would be taken, so they gave up extra assets just to get their guys.

Their guys ended up being Markelle Fultz, a complete bust of a #1 pick, and Matisse Thybulle, who, it can be argued, showed less in Summer League than either of the two guys the Celtics took.

The Celtics got their guys, Tatum and Williams, but parlayed Philly's impatience and uncertainty of getting their guys, into Romeo Langford and Carsen Edwards. Now, Langford, we have not seen because of hand surgery but he was a top 5 high school recruit and, along with Edwards, probably the two best guards in the Big Ten this year. Edwards had a stellar Summer League and earned himself a nice 4 year deal as a 2nd rounder. Both have high ceilings and could be real steals for where they were taken in a bad draft.

Regardless, they are bonuses gotten because Danny convinced the Sixers they should give up other assets to get their guys. If both player's become rotational players or better(all the way up to stars) then Danny just completed two heists upon their old rivals.

So let's all cheer for and hope that Romeo and Carsen become great players and long term Celtics. That way Philly can see the great players they gave up, to get, hopefully, two complete busts.

Maybe this makes everyone feel better about Sixers stealing Horford.

This is one trade that has the potential to come back to bite the Celtics. Watching both Williams and Carsen during the Summer League I was impressed. And, together they appear to have a lot more value than Thybulle.

One area Thybulle does excel at is perimeter defense. And, that is one aspect of the game the Celtics have lacked over the past couple seasons. Matisse has long arms and bothers shots. Since the NBA has virtually become a 3 point shooting contest, having someone who can act as a disrupter could prove invaluable.

Whenever I watched the Celtics lose games, there almost always was one or two players that couldn't miss from outside the arc. Even with Smart on defense they simply shot over him. Thybulle has the ability to stay close to his man. And, even if he isn't within 4 feet of the man, he closes in quickly and can sometimes block shots.  As of now there isn't anyone on the Celtics nearly as good as Thybulle on guarding the perimeter - including Smart.

Maybe Devonte Green can fill that role of a perimeter stopper - should he make the team. Otherwise, I predict we'll be reenacting the same story over and over again, e.g., we'll stay close for 2-3 quarters. Then, one, two or three opposing players will light it up from the arc causing the Celtics to falter. Sure I hope I'm wrong.     

So, a guy who hasn't played an NBA game is better defensively than an NBA All Defensive first teamer?

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2019, 10:00:05 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Grant Williams and Carsen Edwards for Matisse Thybulle



Minor correction:   Ty Jerome (24th) and Carsen Edwards (33rd) for Matisse Thybulle

Grant Williams was picked (22nd) with C's own pick.

Ty Jerome and Aron Baynes then went to Suns for Bucks 1st rd pick next year.

For about a half an hour or so a lot of stuff was happening quickly for the C's on draft night.  :)
That's all true. So, my bad, my general thinking is that: Ainge liked and wanted Williams and if he didn't trade the Thybulle pick, would have taken Williams there. But he knew he could get him later so moved the Thybulle pick and in doing so got the early second that turned into Edwards and could still draft the man he originally wanted higher in the draft, Grant Williams.

Based on Memphis trading up from 23 to 21 to leapfrog us at 22, I think it likely that we would have taken Brandon Clarke at 20 had we passed on Thubulle.
I think all Memphis trading up proves is that Memphis thought Boston was taking Clarke. It proves nothing about who Boston would have chosen if both were there. If you have seen a report from someone credible that says they have contacts telling them Clarke was the pick if Memphis didn't trade up and take him, help me out. I haven't seen them.

What I did see was a report that Boston told Williams he wouldn't be selected at 14 but be prepared because Boston will be looking at him using a later pick. I haven't seen anything that Boston was talking to Clarke.

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2019, 10:18:43 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Grant Williams and Carsen Edwards for Matisse Thybulle



Minor correction:   Ty Jerome (24th) and Carsen Edwards (33rd) for Matisse Thybulle

Grant Williams was picked (22nd) with C's own pick.

Ty Jerome and Aron Baynes then went to Suns for Bucks 1st rd pick next year.

For about a half an hour or so a lot of stuff was happening quickly for the C's on draft night.  :)
That's all true. So, my bad, my general thinking is that: Ainge liked and wanted Williams and if he didn't trade the Thybulle pick, would have taken Williams there. But he knew he could get him later so moved the Thybulle pick and in doing so got the early second that turned into Edwards and could still draft the man he originally wanted higher in the draft, Grant Williams.

Based on Memphis trading up from 23 to 21 to leapfrog us at 22, I think it likely that we would have taken Brandon Clarke at 20 had we passed on Thubulle.
I think all Memphis trading up proves is that Memphis thought Boston was taking Clarke. It proves nothing about who Boston would have chosen if both were there. If you have seen a report from someone credible that says they have contacts telling them Clarke was the pick if Memphis didn't trade up and take him, help me out. I haven't seen them.

What I did see was a report that Boston told Williams he wouldn't be selected at 14 but be prepared because Boston will be looking at him using a later pick. I haven't seen anything that Boston was talking to Clarke.
Ainge wouldn't have traded back if he really wanted Clarke or Williams.  Getting a 2nd rounder isn't worth risking missing out on the player you want.  Pretty clear that Ainge had at least a couple players that were available rated roughly the same that he'd have been happy to end up with. 

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2019, 11:01:40 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Grant Williams and Carsen Edwards for Matisse Thybulle



Minor correction:   Ty Jerome (24th) and Carsen Edwards (33rd) for Matisse Thybulle

Grant Williams was picked (22nd) with C's own pick.

Ty Jerome and Aron Baynes then went to Suns for Bucks 1st rd pick next year.

For about a half an hour or so a lot of stuff was happening quickly for the C's on draft night.  :)
That's all true. So, my bad, my general thinking is that: Ainge liked and wanted Williams and if he didn't trade the Thybulle pick, would have taken Williams there. But he knew he could get him later so moved the Thybulle pick and in doing so got the early second that turned into Edwards and could still draft the man he originally wanted higher in the draft, Grant Williams.

Based on Memphis trading up from 23 to 21 to leapfrog us at 22, I think it likely that we would have taken Brandon Clarke at 20 had we passed on Thubulle.
I think all Memphis trading up proves is that Memphis thought Boston was taking Clarke. It proves nothing about who Boston would have chosen if both were there. If you have seen a report from someone credible that says they have contacts telling them Clarke was the pick if Memphis didn't trade up and take him, help me out. I haven't seen them.

What I did see was a report that Boston told Williams he wouldn't be selected at 14 but be prepared because Boston will be looking at him using a later pick. I haven't seen anything that Boston was talking to Clarke.
Ainge wouldn't have traded back if he really wanted Clarke or Williams.  Getting a 2nd rounder isn't worth risking missing out on the player you want.  Pretty clear that Ainge had at least a couple players that were available rated roughly the same that he'd have been happy to end up with.
Of course you trade back if you own 20 and 22, know you are moving a pick for next year to get a future pick and have 2 guys you like. You make the trade, get the 2nd round asset and are still guaranteed getting one of two guys you like and possibly the guy you wanted at 20 all along.

Ainge did the same thing with Tatum. He knew he could get him later so moved the #1 for the #3, to pick the guy Ainge wanted all along and ended up getting Langford as well.

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2019, 11:12:18 PM »

Offline Alleyoopster

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I think it strange that people can be down on Edwards or Langford in any way. Remember, both are now Celtics because Danny fleeced the Sixers into giving up extra assets just to assure they got the players they wanted. The Sixers desperately wanted Markelle Fultz in 2017 and Matisse Thybulle this year and Boston was in front of them in both drafts. So, Danny ended up trading down in both drafts with Philly and ended up with trades that ended up being:

Jayson Tatum and Romeo Langford for Markelle Fultz.

Grant Williams and Carsen Edwards for Matisse Thybulle

Now, Ainge most likely would have taken both Tatum and Williams in the draft positions they traded out of, but Philly thought their guys would be taken, so they gave up extra assets just to get their guys.

Their guys ended up being Markelle Fultz, a complete bust of a #1 pick, and Matisse Thybulle, who, it can be argued, showed less in Summer League than either of the two guys the Celtics took.

The Celtics got their guys, Tatum and Williams, but parlayed Philly's impatience and uncertainty of getting their guys, into Romeo Langford and Carsen Edwards. Now, Langford, we have not seen because of hand surgery but he was a top 5 high school recruit and, along with Edwards, probably the two best guards in the Big Ten this year. Edwards had a stellar Summer League and earned himself a nice 4 year deal as a 2nd rounder. Both have high ceilings and could be real steals for where they were taken in a bad draft.

Regardless, they are bonuses gotten because Danny convinced the Sixers they should give up other assets to get their guys. If both player's become rotational players or better(all the way up to stars) then Danny just completed two heists upon their old rivals.

So let's all cheer for and hope that Romeo and Carsen become great players and long term Celtics. That way Philly can see the great players they gave up, to get, hopefully, two complete busts.

Maybe this makes everyone feel better about Sixers stealing Horford.

This is one trade that has the potential to come back to bite the Celtics. Watching both Williams and Carsen during the Summer League I was impressed. And, together they appear to have a lot more value than Thybulle.

One area Thybulle does excel at is perimeter defense. And, that is one aspect of the game the Celtics have lacked over the past couple seasons. Matisse has long arms and bothers shots. Since the NBA has virtually become a 3 point shooting contest, having someone who can act as a disrupter could prove invaluable.

Whenever I watched the Celtics lose games, there almost always was one or two players that couldn't miss from outside the arc. Even with Smart on defense they simply shot over him. Thybulle has the ability to stay close to his man. And, even if he isn't within 4 feet of the man, he closes in quickly and can sometimes block shots.  As of now there isn't anyone on the Celtics nearly as good as Thybulle on guarding the perimeter - including Smart.

Maybe Devonte Green can fill that role of a perimeter stopper - should he make the team. Otherwise, I predict we'll be reenacting the same story over and over again, e.g., we'll stay close for 2-3 quarters. Then, one, two or three opposing players will light it up from the arc causing the Celtics to falter. Sure I hope I'm wrong.     

So, a guy who hasn't played an NBA game is better defensively than an NBA All Defensive first teamer?

I can't say Thybulle will be a better defensive player than Smart. But, judging from his college highlight videos and his Summer League performances I believe he'll disrupt or block a lot more shots at the perimeter than Smart will. I can almost guarantee this will be a sore point throughout the season.
As for Green filling the role as a great perimeter defender, I'm being more hopeful than realistic.   

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2019, 11:34:33 PM »

Offline Fierce1

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My only concern is how will Langford get playing time with Brown, Smart, and Hayward all getting playing time at SG.

There's no question about Langford's talent, he is very talented.
The question is how will he get playing time?

Steve Bulpett said the Celts are not done dealing because the Celts don't believe they're a contender right now.

If that's the case then maybe Brown, Smart, or Langford will not finish the season with the Celts.

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2019, 11:37:04 PM »

Offline gouki88

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My only concern is how will Langford get playing time with Brown, Smart, and Hayward all getting playing time at SG.

There's no question about Langford's talent, he is very talented.
The question is how will he get playing time?

Steve Bulpett said the Celts are not done dealing because the Celts don't believe they're a contender right now.

If that's the case then maybe Brown, Smart, or Langford will not finish the season with the Celts.
I think Smart will be spending lots of time at PG and Hayward will be spending lots of time in the SF-PF role that Mook played (but I expect Hayward to get more minutes).
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2019, 11:37:07 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Grant Williams and Carsen Edwards for Matisse Thybulle



Minor correction:   Ty Jerome (24th) and Carsen Edwards (33rd) for Matisse Thybulle

Grant Williams was picked (22nd) with C's own pick.

Ty Jerome and Aron Baynes then went to Suns for Bucks 1st rd pick next year.

For about a half an hour or so a lot of stuff was happening quickly for the C's on draft night.  :)
That's all true. So, my bad, my general thinking is that: Ainge liked and wanted Williams and if he didn't trade the Thybulle pick, would have taken Williams there. But he knew he could get him later so moved the Thybulle pick and in doing so got the early second that turned into Edwards and could still draft the man he originally wanted higher in the draft, Grant Williams.

Based on Memphis trading up from 23 to 21 to leapfrog us at 22, I think it likely that we would have taken Brandon Clarke at 20 had we passed on Thubulle.
I think all Memphis trading up proves is that Memphis thought Boston was taking Clarke. It proves nothing about who Boston would have chosen if both were there. If you have seen a report from someone credible that says they have contacts telling them Clarke was the pick if Memphis didn't trade up and take him, help me out. I haven't seen them.

What I did see was a report that Boston told Williams he wouldn't be selected at 14 but be prepared because Boston will be looking at him using a later pick. I haven't seen anything that Boston was talking to Clarke.
Ainge wouldn't have traded back if he really wanted Clarke or Williams.  Getting a 2nd rounder isn't worth risking missing out on the player you want.  Pretty clear that Ainge had at least a couple players that were available rated roughly the same that he'd have been happy to end up with.
Of course you trade back if you own 20 and 22, know you are moving a pick for next year to get a future pick and have 2 guys you like. You make the trade, get the 2nd round asset and are still guaranteed getting one of two guys you like and possibly the guy you wanted at 20 all along.

Ainge did the same thing with Tatum. He knew he could get him later so moved the #1 for the #3, to pick the guy Ainge wanted all along and ended up getting Langford as well.
They're not the same scenario.  Ainge specifically wanted Tatum and knew he could trade back to #3 and still get him.   If he thought the Sixers or Lakers might take Tatum, Ainge wouldn't have done the trade. 

In the Thybulle situation, Ainge didn't know who would get taken at #21.  In fact the pick got traded.  If he had a specific guy he wanted (i.e. someone rated significantly higher than the rest), Ainge would have taken him at #20 rather than risk losing him.   

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2019, 12:04:51 AM »

Offline Fierce1

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My only concern is how will Langford get playing time with Brown, Smart, and Hayward all getting playing time at SG.

There's no question about Langford's talent, he is very talented.
The question is how will he get playing time?

Steve Bulpett said the Celts are not done dealing because the Celts don't believe they're a contender right now.

If that's the case then maybe Brown, Smart, or Langford will not finish the season with the Celts.
I think Smart will be spending lots of time at PG and Hayward will be spending lots of time in the SF-PF role that Mook played (but I expect Hayward to get more minutes).

So this means Tatum will play a lot of PF?

If Tatum can play PF then it's sort of problem solved.
But if Tatum can't play PF on a regular basis then Langford will get a lot of DNPs this coming season.

Also, Carsen will get minutes at PG and some at SG.

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2019, 12:08:57 AM »

Offline gouki88

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My only concern is how will Langford get playing time with Brown, Smart, and Hayward all getting playing time at SG.

There's no question about Langford's talent, he is very talented.
The question is how will he get playing time?

Steve Bulpett said the Celts are not done dealing because the Celts don't believe they're a contender right now.

If that's the case then maybe Brown, Smart, or Langford will not finish the season with the Celts.
I think Smart will be spending lots of time at PG and Hayward will be spending lots of time in the SF-PF role that Mook played (but I expect Hayward to get more minutes).

So this means Tatum will play a lot of PF?

If Tatum can play PF then it's sort of problem solved.
But if Tatum can't play PF on a regular basis then Langford will get a lot of DNPs this coming season.

Also, Carsen will get minutes at PG and some at SG.
I expect Tatum to get minutes at PF. I also think we'll see Grant Williams get quite a few minutes. Considering Langford is the youngest of our rooks I think him playing in Maine wouldn't be the worst thing either though. I think it was one of our biggest mistakes of last season to not play Rob Williams a lot in Maine
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2019, 12:21:15 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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My only concern is how will Langford get playing time with Brown, Smart, and Hayward all getting playing time at SG.

There's no question about Langford's talent, he is very talented.
The question is how will he get playing time?

Steve Bulpett said the Celts are not done dealing because the Celts don't believe they're a contender right now.

If that's the case then maybe Brown, Smart, or Langford will not finish the season with the Celts.
I think Smart will be spending lots of time at PG and Hayward will be spending lots of time in the SF-PF role that Mook played (but I expect Hayward to get more minutes).

So this means Tatum will play a lot of PF?

If Tatum can play PF then it's sort of problem solved.
But if Tatum can't play PF on a regular basis then Langford will get a lot of DNPs this coming season.

Also, Carsen will get minutes at PG and some at SG.
I expect Tatum to get minutes at PF. I also think we'll see Grant Williams get quite a few minutes. Considering Langford is the youngest of our rooks I think him playing in Maine wouldn't be the worst thing either though. I think it was one of our biggest mistakes of last season to not play Rob Williams a lot in Maine
I haven't seen much NBA development from prospects playing in the G league.  If you're going to become an NBA player, you've got to play against actual NBA players. RW needed actual meaningful NBA minutes last season to develop.  I hope to heck Ainge tells Stevens to focus on player development not wins this season.   

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2019, 12:22:11 AM »

Offline gouki88

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My only concern is how will Langford get playing time with Brown, Smart, and Hayward all getting playing time at SG.

There's no question about Langford's talent, he is very talented.
The question is how will he get playing time?

Steve Bulpett said the Celts are not done dealing because the Celts don't believe they're a contender right now.

If that's the case then maybe Brown, Smart, or Langford will not finish the season with the Celts.
I think Smart will be spending lots of time at PG and Hayward will be spending lots of time in the SF-PF role that Mook played (but I expect Hayward to get more minutes).

So this means Tatum will play a lot of PF?

If Tatum can play PF then it's sort of problem solved.
But if Tatum can't play PF on a regular basis then Langford will get a lot of DNPs this coming season.

Also, Carsen will get minutes at PG and some at SG.
I expect Tatum to get minutes at PF. I also think we'll see Grant Williams get quite a few minutes. Considering Langford is the youngest of our rooks I think him playing in Maine wouldn't be the worst thing either though. I think it was one of our biggest mistakes of last season to not play Rob Williams a lot in Maine
I haven't seen much NBA development from prospects playing in the G league.  If you're going to become an NBA player, you've got to play against actual NBA players. RW needed actual meaningful NBA minutes last season to develop.  I hope to heck Ainge tells Stevens to focus on player development not wins this season.
If it worked for Toronto I'm happy to give it a try
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)