Author Topic: Woj on ESPN: Cavs listening to offers for Kevin Love  (Read 19210 times)

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Re: Woj: Cavs ready to listen to offers for Kevin Love
« Reply #90 on: December 08, 2019, 08:16:47 PM »

Offline Moranis

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It hurts, but Smart, Kanter, Langford, and Poirier is enough (edit: salary wise). Add in the Memphis pick?

Gives us a starting five of Walker-Brown-Tatum-Hayward-Love with Theis, Williams, Williams, Wanamaker, Edwards, Waters, Ojeleye, and Green off the bench.

Plus I think we are right there with any veteran buyouts.
Love playing the 5?  Defending Embiid?  Defending the paint against Giannis?  We'll get slaughtered.  Also losing Smart's defense.  Really odd proposal from one called DefenseWinsChamps.

To be fair, who defends Embiid now? And defends Giannis?
Kanter and Theis for Embiid, and a combination of Smart/Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Semi/Grant/Theis/Robert for Giannis. I'd be much more confident with our current slew of options than Love lol.
All of those guys, except for Hayward, would still be on the team in the hypothetical Love for Hayward swap.

Love for Hayward swap is a disaster trade. Love is seriously a marginal upgrade over what we already have if he’s even that. I think people advocating for love need to rewatch the Cs vs Cavs game and see what he does on D. Plus have y’all seen his stats? He’s shooting like 44% from the field and you want him to play Center??? He don’t even play Center now lol. Lastly all everyone is going to do is complain how often he’s OUT THE DANG LINE UP!!!! The best ability is availability Especially at center!! We can afford Hawyward to be gone because of the other players we have on our team.
Love's TS% is 61 and he is scoring 1.45 points per shot.  Those are both borderline elite and at least excellent.  He also has a TRB% of just under 19 which is very good. 

Hayward was certainly off to a great start but he is a SF on a team loaded with SF's. 
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Re: Woj: Cavs ready to listen to offers for Kevin Love
« Reply #91 on: December 08, 2019, 09:13:35 PM »

Offline gouki88

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It hurts, but Smart, Kanter, Langford, and Poirier is enough (edit: salary wise). Add in the Memphis pick?

Gives us a starting five of Walker-Brown-Tatum-Hayward-Love with Theis, Williams, Williams, Wanamaker, Edwards, Waters, Ojeleye, and Green off the bench.

Plus I think we are right there with any veteran buyouts.
Love playing the 5?  Defending Embiid?  Defending the paint against Giannis?  We'll get slaughtered.  Also losing Smart's defense.  Really odd proposal from one called DefenseWinsChamps.

To be fair, who defends Embiid now? And defends Giannis?
Kanter and Theis for Embiid, and a combination of Smart/Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Semi/Grant/Theis/Robert for Giannis. I'd be much more confident with our current slew of options than Love lol.
All of those guys, except for Hayward, would still be on the team in the hypothetical Love for Hayward swap.

Love for Hayward swap is a disaster trade. Love is seriously a marginal upgrade over what we already have if he’s even that. I think people advocating for love need to rewatch the Cs vs Cavs game and see what he does on D. Plus have y’all seen his stats? He’s shooting like 44% from the field and you want him to play Center??? He don’t even play Center now lol. Lastly all everyone is going to do is complain how often he’s OUT THE DANG LINE UP!!!! The best ability is availability Especially at center!! We can afford Hawyward to be gone because of the other players we have on our team.
Love's TS% is 61 and he is scoring 1.45 points per shot.  Those are both borderline elite and at least excellent.  He also has a TRB% of just under 19 which is very good. 

Hayward was certainly off to a great start but he is a SF on a team loaded with SF's.
Yeah, but Love is not really addressing any needs. His shooting is comparable to Hayward's, especially because Love would likely get less touches here than in Cleveland. We're a top 10 rebounding team, so I don't see that as some dire need.

We are in the bottom third of 3P%, but again, don't think Love really addresses that significantly. Would rather go after a shooter off the bench, rather than dramatically shake-up (and in my mind, probably ruin) our chemistry with no big gain.
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Re: Woj on ESPN: Cavs listening to offers for Kevin Love
« Reply #92 on: December 08, 2019, 09:19:13 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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It hurts, but Smart, Kanter, Langford, and Poirier is enough (edit: salary wise). Add in the Memphis pick?

Gives us a starting five of Walker-Brown-Tatum-Hayward-Love with Theis, Williams, Williams, Wanamaker, Edwards, Waters, Ojeleye, and Green off the bench.

Plus I think we are right there with any veteran buyouts.
Love playing the 5?  Defending Embiid?  Defending the paint against Giannis?  We'll get slaughtered.  Also losing Smart's defense.  Really odd proposal from one called DefenseWinsChamps.

To be fair, who defends Embiid now? And defends Giannis?
Kanter and Theis for Embiid, and a combination of Smart/Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Semi/Grant/Theis/Robert for Giannis. I'd be much more confident with our current slew of options than Love lol.
All of those guys, except for Hayward, would still be on the team in the hypothetical Love for Hayward swap.

Love for Hayward swap is a disaster trade. Love is seriously a marginal upgrade over what we already have if he’s even that. I think people advocating for love need to rewatch the Cs vs Cavs game and see what he does on D. Plus have y’all seen his stats? He’s shooting like 44% from the field and you want him to play Center??? He don’t even play Center now lol. Lastly all everyone is going to do is complain how often he’s OUT THE DANG LINE UP!!!! The best ability is availability Especially at center!! We can afford Hawyward to be gone because of the other players we have on our team.
Love's TS% is 61 and he is scoring 1.45 points per shot.  Those are both borderline elite and at least excellent.  He also has a TRB% of just under 19 which is very good. 

Hayward was certainly off to a great start but he is a SF on a team loaded with SF's. 

To be honest, I probably would be on board with this. I mean, Kevin Love is still one of the premier shooting big's in the league, even in 30 minutes, he's still averaging 10 rebounds. I also think in our system, he'd actually be a deadlier shooter.

Like, don't get me wrong, in my opinion, Hayward is probably the better player moving forward, I think his ball handling and versatility makes us tough to defend.

But it's hard to ignore, Love is putting up a easy 16/10/3 numbers with 44/37/88, and he's not even taking the most shots on his team!

Jordan Clarkson for comparison is averaging 10.7 FGA, Love is taking 11.1.

I think our defense won't suffer as most people think. Love is a decent post defender, and while he's slow footed, he has quick reflexes/reaction times.

But under no condition am I giving up Smart in any trade scenario.


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Re: Woj on ESPN: Cavs listening to offers for Kevin Love
« Reply #93 on: December 08, 2019, 10:35:34 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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But under no condition am I giving up Smart in any trade ...agree  ;D

Thats like selling the Auerbach Statue.  ;D

Re: Woj on ESPN: Cavs listening to offers for Kevin Love
« Reply #94 on: December 09, 2019, 06:33:07 AM »

Offline Androslav

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But under no condition am I giving up Smart in any trade ...agree  ;D

Thats like selling the Auerbach Statue.  ;D
Yup the only way I'd give Smart is in a package, 10 years from now for 3 unprotected 1sts.

If we give Smart up (which fortunately for us we won't),
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Re: Woj on ESPN: Cavs listening to offers for Kevin Love
« Reply #95 on: December 09, 2019, 06:52:09 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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There's no need to bash a player--it actually undermines the point you are trying to make.

How do you figure this?   This is nonsensical.  Love has a reputation as a poor defender.

Smart is essential to our team toughness and culture, Love would ruin that.

Re: Woj on ESPN: Cavs listening to offers for Kevin Love
« Reply #96 on: December 09, 2019, 07:05:49 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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There's no need to bash a player--it actually undermines the point you are trying to make.

How do you figure this?   This is nonsensical.  Love has a reputation as a poor defender.

Smart is essential to our team toughness and culture, Love would ruin that.
I still think that people are for trading Hayward for him who was playing like an all-star to get a spot up shooter who can get rebounds and that's it is really weird to me.

I'm glad that Tim Bontemps is down on the idea of him going to Boston, I'd hate that the team even considered it for more than a few seconds.

Re: Woj on ESPN: Cavs listening to offers for Kevin Love
« Reply #97 on: December 09, 2019, 07:31:23 AM »

Offline JSD

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If I’m the Knicks, I’m making a play to try to team up Kevin Love and Chris Paul in NY.


Taking on Paul would probably pay for Love.
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Re: Woj on ESPN: Cavs listening to offers for Kevin Love
« Reply #98 on: December 09, 2019, 07:37:18 AM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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To me, you never give up the best player in a trade if you don’t have to.

There is no doubt in my mind that Gordon Hayward is a better player than Love, and a much better fit for our system. Trading him in these circumstances isn’t remotely realistic.

Re: Woj on ESPN: Cavs listening to offers for Kevin Love
« Reply #99 on: December 09, 2019, 08:07:37 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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There's no need to bash a player--it actually undermines the point you are trying to make.

How do you figure this?   This is nonsensical.  Love has a reputation as a poor defender.

Smart is essential to our team toughness and culture, Love would ruin that.

Kind of. Debating "reputations" is impossible.

I'm not arguing from reputation. I'm arguing from what I've seen on the court. He's not a defensive MVP candidate. But he has found a way to be an average to above average defender.

Like I said, I wouldn't do the trade. I prefer continuity and like Smart. But we don't need to belittle Love in order to make that point.

I would add that we also don't need to exaggerate Smart to make that point. I think CBS is critical to our toughness and culture. Smart certainly adds to that and there's no questioning his defensive impact.

Re: Woj on ESPN: Cavs listening to offers for Kevin Love
« Reply #100 on: December 09, 2019, 08:11:15 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Look who wouldn't want to jump on a veteran who's injury prone, 30, has quit on his current team, and is owed $31/$31/$28 million over the next three years. (that's not including this year!)

Also since when do we need to spare Kevin freaking Love from criticism on this board? "No need to belittle him"?  ::)

Re: Woj on ESPN: Cavs listening to offers for Kevin Love
« Reply #101 on: December 09, 2019, 08:11:52 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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If I’m the Knicks, I’m making a play to try to team up Kevin Love and Chris Paul in NY.


Taking on Paul would probably pay for Love.

I don't think Paul is a negative asset. There aren't a lot of teams able to take Paul on, but that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of teams that want to take Paul on.

Re: Woj on ESPN: Cavs listening to offers for Kevin Love
« Reply #102 on: December 09, 2019, 08:15:51 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Look who wouldn't want to jump on a veteran who's injury prone, 30, has quit on his current team, and is owed $31/$31/$28 million over the next three years. (that's not including this year!)

Also since when do we need to spare Kevin freaking Love from criticism on this board? "No need to belittle him"?  ::)

Lol. Straw man much? I'm not saying you can't criticize. I'm saying there is no need to exaggerate his weaknesses in order to make a point.

Love is still a good basketball player. There are certainly questions about his game and health and salary. But making him sound comparable to Ryan Anderson is a little much. Making Smart sound untouchable is also a little much.

As I keep saying, I wouldn't do the trade because I think this team is better short-term and long-term with Smart, Kanter, Langford, and Poirier. But my reason is not "Kevin Love is horrible and an injury-prone as Brandon Roy and soft and" all that.

Re: Woj on ESPN: Cavs listening to offers for Kevin Love
« Reply #103 on: December 09, 2019, 08:16:56 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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If I’m the Knicks, I’m making a play to try to team up Kevin Love and Chris Paul in NY.


Taking on Paul would probably pay for Love.

I don't think Paul is a negative asset. There aren't a lot of teams able to take Paul on, but that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of teams that want to take Paul on.
Huh? Do you not see the contradiction in your own words here? If Chris Paul was a positive asset on his contract he'd have been traded as the OKC Thunder tried very hard to move him.

He is viewed as a positive on court player and a negative asset because of his large salary.

OKC Thunder want to receive picks/assets for him, or at least no pay teams to take on his salary. That's why he hasn't moved. OKC views him as a positive asset and the rest of the league disagrees.

Re: Woj on ESPN: Cavs listening to offers for Kevin Love
« Reply #104 on: December 09, 2019, 08:22:03 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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If I’m the Knicks, I’m making a play to try to team up Kevin Love and Chris Paul in NY.


Taking on Paul would probably pay for Love.

I don't think Paul is a negative asset. There aren't a lot of teams able to take Paul on, but that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of teams that want to take Paul on.
Huh? Do you not see the contradiction in your own words here? If Chris Paul was a positive asset on his contract he'd have been traded as the OKC Thunder tried very hard to move him.

He is viewed as a positive on court player and a negative asset because of his large salary.

OKC Thunder want to receive picks/assets for him, or at least no pay teams to take on his salary. That's why he hasn't moved. OKC views him as a positive asset and the rest of the league disagrees.

I'm not sure we've had enough time to determine that yet. From what I've understood, OKC is content to have Chris Paul on their team. Maybe that's posturing. Maybe not.

The poster made it sound like OKC would need to give additional assets to the Knicks in order to trade him, and then they could use those assets to get Love. I don't think that is how he is viewed around the NBA.

He's worth an expiring contract, role player, and an asset/young player on his current deal. But OKC has the ability to wait. They aren't in the tax. They are trying to develop young players and Paul can help with that. They are waiting for the right deal for them.

They will get it eventually. I think Minnesota or Miami eventually makes the offer.