Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis

[jambr380]

The main difference between Jaylen Brown and Damontas Sabonis is rarity.

Every year there's always a 6-6 or 6-7 player in the draft that has star potential.

But it's not every year that you can find a 6-10 or 6-11 player with star potential.

I can buy the rarity argument with scoring guards vs bigs, but not with wings vs bigs. Positionless basketball is all the rage right now and a wing with good size that can cover 1-4 while seemingly being able to fit anywhere on offense is a very big commodity. The other flaw here is that Jaylen is still a player that has star potential and Sabonis is not (although he is a very good player).

The reason I clicked on this thread was to respond similarly to PAO above (bottom of page 3). Contracts are a problem in this situation so a Sabonis trade doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are sending out Jaylen (which I don't really want to do), but, sure, I would probably pull the trigger on Turner.

[Moranis]

I wouldn't trade Brown for him.

Now, if they want to take Langford and a future 1st along with matching salaries, sure.

this is what popped into my head as a fair deal. Sabonis was invisible in the playoffs against us last year.  no way I'm giving up Jaylen for him who has stepped up in the playoffs the past 2 years.

He was just fine in the playoffs 2 years ago.  And even last year he didn't shoot well but still averaged 8.5 points, 7.3 rebounds, and 4 assists in 24 mpg against Boston.  Per 36 those numbers are fine, especially given his less than stellar shooting.  And to be clear only Al Horford had more rebounds in that series than Sabonis did and only Irving and Horford out-assisted him.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

The main difference between Jaylen Brown and Damontas Sabonis is rarity.

Every year there's always a 6-6 or 6-7 player in the draft that has star potential.

But it's not every year that you can find a 6-10 or 6-11 player with star potential.

I can buy the rarity argument with scoring guards vs bigs, but not with wings vs bigs. Positionless basketball is all the rage right now and a wing with good size that can cover 1-4 while seemingly being able to fit anywhere on offense is a very big commodity. The other flaw here is that Jaylen is still a player that has star potential and Sabonis is not (although he is a very good player).

The reason I clicked on this thread was to respond similarly to PAO above (bottom of page 3). Contracts are a problem in this situation so a Sabonis trade doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are sending out Jaylen (which I don't really want to do), but, sure, I would probably pull the trigger on Turner.

This, and the original post assumes Sabonis has star potential, something that is dubious.

[saltlover]

I wouldn't trade Brown for him.

Now, if they want to take Langford and a future 1st along with matching salaries, sure.

this is what popped into my head as a fair deal. Sabonis was invisible in the playoffs against us last year.  no way I'm giving up Jaylen for him who has stepped up in the playoffs the past 2 years.

He was just fine in the playoffs 2 years ago.  And even last year he didn't shoot well but still averaged 8.5 points, 7.3 rebounds, and 4 assists in 24 mpg against Boston.  Per 36 those numbers are fine, especially given his less than stellar shooting.  And to be clear only Al Horford had more rebounds in that series than Sabonis did and only Irving and Horford out-assisted him.

I’m just amused that you’d cite to the Celtics series, in which Sabonis had the absolute worst net rating of any Pacer, as any evidence of his quality.

[SHAQATTACK]

Not for Edwards or Brown ....NOT ! 

pass

[moiso]

I think everybody will be happy if 2 things happen.

1. Brown and the Celts agree to a contract extension.
I don't believe Brown is a max player, so if Brown agrees to a 100m for 4 years deal, that's a good deal for the Celts.

2. Giving up Langford, instead of Brown, for Sabonis solves the Celts' problem of needing a quality big man.

Right now the Pacers don't have leverage because they're going to lose Sabonis for nothing once Sabonis becomes a RFA in the summer.

There will be a team out there that will offer Sabonis big money.
So I think the Celts can acquire Sabonis in a trade if Ainge is interested.

I have a hard time believing the Pacers would consider Romeo for Sabonis, that's a huge gamble on their part. No one even knows if Romeo will even be an NBA level player, Sabonis is already a quality big that can stretch the floor. I'd do it in a heartbeat if I were Danny, I'd be stunned if the Pacers even thought about it.

Romeo has Indiana ties, they know him well. Also, he would be cost controlled for several years, solving their problem of paying Sabonis or Jaylen a large contract.

I don't think having "ties" to a state or location matters at all, yet it always pops up in various threads.  Scouting is good enough that teams know everyone.  You don't see the Celtics going after the players with Boston ties any more than they go after anyone else.

[keevsnick]

The main difference between Jaylen Brown and Damontas Sabonis is rarity.

Every year there's always a 6-6 or 6-7 player in the draft that has star potential.

But it's not every year that you can find a 6-10 or 6-11 player with star potential.

There is so much wrong with this statement.

A) Its gonna be hard for Sabonis to be a star player given his defensive weakness. Almost every star big man has defensive ability, you have to reach such an absurd level like Jokic or KAT offensively to be a star big man I  you can't defend and even with those guys it will always be a liability to their team (KAT could still get better). I would say that Sabonis doesn't have star potential.

B) The above may be true, but if you actually look at the number of star (and potential star)wings vs bigs its pretty close. Not including guys drafted this year....

For bigs theirs KAT, Embiid, Jokic, Davis, Gobert, Ayton, Giannis, Bagley, Porzingus, Collins, Turner, Markenen, Jackson, Vuc(borderline), Horford, Aldrige, Blake, Love,

For wings you have Lebron, Kawhi, George, Butler, Thompson, Doncic, Tatum, Brown(maybe), Middleton(Borderline), Gordon(maybe), Derozen(meh), Harris, Ingrahm

I compiled this list by going through the top 50ish nba guys n si's list, Ben Simmons and Siakim are debatable give  that they are "big" wings. The point is if its so much easier to find wings you would expect there to be more wings than bigs. Wings are rarer.

*Please no posts say "You missed this guy!" I might have missed guys, unless you have a half dozen 6'6-6'8 guys with star potential I missed it doesn't change the point.

[Big333223]

If the Pacers stumble out of the gate or Oladpio has any kind of setback (or shows rust) it's possible they might think about this season differently. In which case, maybe the Memphis pick gets involved.

[bellerephon]

I wouldn’t trade the Memphis pick for Sabonis.

[Csfan1984]

I like committing to Brown and then trading for Turner. Id offer Smart, GW, and Timelord for him. Sure it's probably an over pay but we have some guard depth and Turner is a win now big under a good contract. Not interested in Sabonis.

Walker/Edwards/Wanna
Brown/Langford/Green
Hayward/Semi
Tatum/Theis
Turner/Kanter/VP

[obnoxiousmime]

The problem is Sabonis is locked at the C spot and his ceiling becomes a team's ceiling. Teams that feature a C as their best player usually have a special one like Embiid, Jokic, or Towns, and we don't even know if their teams will ever win a title. Even though Jokic and Towns aren't great defenders and Embiid will never have awesome footspeed, their teams are willing to make them key pieces because their other abilities are so unique for their position.

I don't know if Sabonis is good enough to make a cornerstone player, which is what you'd be doing if you give him a big deal next season. At least with Brown, you can envision him being the third option/versatile D guy on a contending team, in which case paying him in the 20-something million range is justifiable.

If you don't have a C that is special, it just makes more financial sense to have one in that 10-17 million dollar range. Somebody who, if you run into a matchup where you need to go small and he isn't playing much, you haven't just sacrificed 25 million on a guy who can't play big minutes in this or that playoff series.

BTW, this is also the reason the Pacers have chosen Turner over Sabonis, essentially. If you look at Turner's numbers you might think, what's the big deal? Guy is supposed to be a star big man and he doesn't rebound much or score! But he's more versatile than Sabonis is on both offense and defense. He can play in different lineups.

[Fierce1]

The main difference between Jaylen Brown and Damontas Sabonis is rarity.

Every year there's always a 6-6 or 6-7 player in the draft that has star potential.

But it's not every year that you can find a 6-10 or 6-11 player with star potential.

There is so much wrong with this statement.

A) Its gonna be hard for Sabonis to be a star player given his defensive weakness. Almost every star big man has defensive ability, you have to reach such an absurd level like Jokic or KAT offensively to be a star big man I  you can't defend and even with those guys it will always be a liability to their team (KAT could still get better). I would say that Sabonis doesn't have star potential.

B) The above may be true, but if you actually look at the number of star (and potential star)wings vs bigs its pretty close. Not including guys drafted this year....

For bigs theirs KAT, Embiid, Jokic, Davis, Gobert, Ayton, Giannis, Bagley, Porzingus, Collins, Turner, Markenen, Jackson, Vuc(borderline), Horford, Aldrige, Blake, Love,

For wings you have Lebron, Kawhi, George, Butler, Thompson, Doncic, Tatum, Brown(maybe), Middleton(Borderline), Gordon(maybe), Derozen(meh), Harris, Ingrahm

I compiled this list by going through the top 50ish nba guys n si's list, Ben Simmons and Siakim are debatable give  that they are "big" wings. The point is if its so much easier to find wings you would expect there to be more wings than bigs. Wings are rarer.

*Please no posts say "You missed this guy!" I might have missed guys, unless you have a half dozen 6'6-6'8 guys with star potential I missed it doesn't change the point.

You're missing the point.

The point is most human beings are not 6-10 or 6-11.

What I'm trying to point out is there are more good 6-6 to 6-7 players than 6-10 to 6-11 players every year.

Just look at the draft every year.

I'm not pointing out how many there are in the NBA, I'm pointing out that every draft there are lots of 6-6 to 6-7 players who have star potential.

If Jaylen Brown has superstar potential then no way the Celts trade him.

And like I said, if Brown agrees to a 4-year 100m deal, Celts should keep him.

There's just no way Jaylen Brown is a 30m per year player, no way!

So if Brown and the Celts can't agree on an extension, it's very obvious a team will offer Brown the max in the summer of 2020.

Ainge and the Celtics will be crazy to pay a player who only averages 13-14 points per game 30m per year.

[Fierce1]

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba_final_draft/2019

Just look at the 2019 Draft from #1 to #14.

There's only 1 player 6-10 or taller drafted, Jaxson Hayes at #8 by the Pels.

10 players 6-6 to 6-8 got drafted in the top 14.

So it's very clear, bigs are harder to find than wing players.

Having Tatum, Hayward, Brown, Smart, and Langford on the roster is redundant.
It's not like the Celts don't have other wing players who are also great players.
In fact, Tatum and Hayward are better than Brown.
You add Smart to that mix and clearly there will not be enough shots and minutes for all of them.
Langford isn't even relevant yet.

So even if Brown is better than Sabonis as a basketball player, Sabonis is a better fit because the Celts already have too many 6-6 to 6-8 players and not enough quality bigs.

What we saw from preseason is the Celts are clearly lacking a quality big man.

[Csfan1984]

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba_final_draft/2019

Just look at the 2019 Draft from #1 to #14.

There's only 1 player 6-10 or taller drafted, Jaxson Hayes at #8 by the Pels.

10 players 6-6 to 6-8 got drafted in the top 14.

So it's very clear, bigs are harder to find than wing players.

Having Tatum, Hayward, Brown, Smart, and Langford on the roster is redundant.
It's not like the Celts don't have other wing players who are also great players.
In fact, Tatum and Hayward are better than Brown.
You add Smart to that mix and clearly there will not be enough shots and minutes for all of them.
Langford isn't even relevant yet.

So even if Brown is better than Sabonis as a basketball player, Sabonis is a better fit because the Celts already have too many 6-6 to 6-8 players and not enough quality bigs.

What we saw from preseason is the Celts are clearly lacking a quality big man.

I don't see how Sabonis is a better fit than Brown just because he is tall. Sabonis is a mid range big that can't play defense. Brown is a two way player that can guard four positions. Yes we have a few good 6'6 to 6'9 wings but only Brown can guard 4 spots and play the sg spot at a high level, those other guys can't.
 
 I don't consider Sabonis for Brown a fair deal even if Pacers are adding a 1st.

[Big333223]

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba_final_draft/2019

Just look at the 2019 Draft from #1 to #14.

There's only 1 player 6-10 or taller drafted, Jaxson Hayes at #8 by the Pels.

10 players 6-6 to 6-8 got drafted in the top 14.

So it's very clear, bigs are harder to find than wing players.

Having Tatum, Hayward, Brown, Smart, and Langford on the roster is redundant.
It's not like the Celts don't have other wing players who are also great players.
In fact, Tatum and Hayward are better than Brown.
You add Smart to that mix and clearly there will not be enough shots and minutes for all of them.
Langford isn't even relevant yet.

So even if Brown is better than Sabonis as a basketball player, Sabonis is a better fit because the Celts already have too many 6-6 to 6-8 players and not enough quality bigs.

What we saw from preseason is the Celts are clearly lacking a quality big man.

I don't see how Sabonis is a better fit than Brown just because he is tall. Sabonis is a mid range big that can't play defense. Brown is a two way player that can guard four positions. Yes we have a few good 6'6 to 6'9 wings but only Brown can guard 4 spots and play the sg spot at a high level, those other guys can't.
 
 I don't consider Sabonis for Brown a fair deal even if Pacers are adding a 1st.

It's about the Celtics' needs right now. If Brown were to be traded, Smart becomes the starting SG and the hole at center is suddenly filled.

I don't know that that is the right thing or best thing but strictly in terms of fit for this team, it makes a lot of sense.