Welp, here we go...Rondo and Carlisle going at each other

[Eja117]

ANyone who paid attention to our offense after Stevens arrived with and without Rondo would have seen this coming.   Rondo can't be fit into a system.  You have to fit a system to Rondo. 

Let's rehash what people like me have been saying for years.  He's a complete liability without the ball.  He NEEDS the ball to be effective at all.  An offense must be run through him if you hope for him to have any impact.  Since the ball NEEDS to be in his hands (out of necessity) and he can't shoot work lick, he's going to get inflated assists.   He also needs bigs who can hit mid-range shots so that the paint is open for him to pentrate/kick.

You can't just stick him into a free-flowing ball-sharing offense and expect him to be a factor.  Zach Lowe wrote an article right after the trade that basically said the Mavs offense would struggle to incorporate him.

You can't at all be surprised by this.  The Mavs had the highest scoring/most efficient offense in the league prior to Rondo's arrival.  You can't expect them to throw that out the window and say, "New plan... Rondo will dominate the ball the entire game... everyone else run around and get open"

Especially considering Monta Ellis is a ball-dominating guard already on that roster.

Man... the smug I-Told-You-So vindication is just oooooozing out of me right now.  THis is glorious.

That said, it's not like Rondo is dead.  He proved to be a solid player for us last season.  His per-36 numbers this season were the best in his career:  9 points, 12.3 assists, 8.5 rebounds, 1.9 steals.   SUrprised those are the best of his career?  Well people typically remember his amazing stats during playoff runs... playoff runs when he averaged upwards of 43 minutes per game.  This season he averaged 30 minutes for us.   THink about it. 

Dallas thing is probably a failed experiment.  Some stupid team will panic this offseason and throw a bunch of money at Rondo hoping to make a splash.  It'll probably be the Lakers or Knicks.  When that happens, they will probably give him the keys to the offense and we'll see some typical Rondo numbers return.  Can you win with him as the best player though?  Nah. 

Really interesting thing is that Rondo was asking for 100 mil from Boston.  Ainge sending him to Dallas and watching him get exposed must be a heck of a humbling experience for Rondo.  Even a dumb team like the Lakers/Knicks would be a bit crazy to give him a max contract.   This is going to cost Rondo a lot of money.  Maybe Boston can reach out to him this offseason and say, "yo... 8 miil a year to join our guard rotation off the bench... take it or leave it"

Better yet, let's sign him on the cheap-cheap for the laughs, give him a solid two months of Rondo-centric offense, get them inflated stats back up, and then trade him for a 1st to some sucker team.  If he was worth a late 1st on an expiring contract, how much will inflated stat rondo and a 5 year contract fetch?

This is all interesting. Especially if it was a reasonable contract.

Rondo's agent is probably the most mad right now.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

Things never change with Rondo talk. He's either God, or God awful.

[obnoxiousmime]

It's very simple. In the past Rondo had the elite speed and could finish around the rim enough to keep defenses honest. Even when teams played off him sometimes he could still get by his man. He can't do that anymore and his FT% getting worse doesn't help his confidence in getting fouled.

Secondly, the league is moving towards shooting and spacing and Rondo doesn't fit into that type of game. It's possible that a team could get by with a team specifically geared for Rondo, but how good would that team be ultimately, and how hard would it be to get those exact players around him? With so many PGs out there now, who would invest so significantly in Rondo besides a bad, go nowhere team?

He just doesn't do enough anymore. Passing cannot be the only skill you're bringing to the table. If he can't shoot and he is no longer athletic enough to drive, or young enough to play uptempo 35 mpg, Even if you say Rondo is a great defender, that's not enough and certainly not worth 12 million/year.

That being said, I don't think Rondo is to blame for all of Dallas' problems. Their bench was decimated in the deal and Nowitzki is old. However, Rondo hasn't exactly been helping them overcome those losses which is what you'd hope a star PG would do.

[Eddie20]

Rajon Rondo was benched for the final 20-plus minutes of the Dallas Mavericks' win on Tuesday over the Toronto Raptors following a profanity-laced confrontation with Rick Carlisle.

Rondo and Carlisle were arguing over play-calling responsibilities.

Carlisle stormed out on the American Airlines Center court to call a timeout and shouted at Rondo, who appeared to be ignoring a play call from the bench as he brought the ball up the floor.

Rondo responded by shouting back at Carlisle. They exchanged heated words for much of the timeout, with assistant coach Jamahl Mosley at one point stepping in front of Rondo to prevent the point guard and coach from getting in each other's faces.

"Well, it's an emotional game, and we had a difference of opinion," Carlisle said. "There was an exchange, and then in my mind, it was over."

Rondo declined to take questions with reporters after the game.

"Discuss with Rick," said Rondo.

Team sources told ESPNDallas.com that friction had been building between Carlisle and Rondo over play-calling responsibilities, the majority of which the coach has handled.

[Boris Badenov]

That's probably a $15 million fight with your coach, right there.

[droopdog7]

Honestly, for years there was the debate about what kind of player Rondo really was.  And while a lot of gone on to hinder his game, I think the answer is becoming more clear.  Rondo was never a star player.  He was a product of a team and a system at best.  At worst, those celtics teams might have been even better with an average PG who could shoot.

And the injury was always part of the equation.  Not that he would necessarily get hurt, but that Rondo's game relied so much on energy and athleticism that any minor chink in the armor would have a bigger than normal affect on him.

[D.o.s.]

Honestly, for years there was the debate about what kind of player Rondo really was.  And while a lot of gone on to hinder his game, I think the answer is becoming more clear.  Rondo was never a star player.  He was a product of a team and a system at best.  At worst, those celtics teams might have been even better with an average PG who could shoot.

And the injury was always part of the equation.  Not that he would necessarily get hurt, but that Rondo's game relied so much on energy and athleticism that any minor chink in the armor would have a bigger than normal affect on him.

This is probably too far to the negative of an evaluation. Rondo's certainly polarizing, but there's an argument to be made that 'his system' of play was perfectly suited to the late 00's, particularly before the league's offenses had adapted the Thibs defense.

[Jonny CC]

Really interesting thing is that Rondo was asking for 100 mil from Boston.  Ainge sending him to Dallas and watching him get exposed must be a heck of a humbling experience for Rondo.  Even a dumb team like the Lakers/Knicks would be a bit crazy to give him a max contract.   This is going to cost Rondo a lot of money.  Maybe Boston can reach out to him this offseason and say, "yo... 8 miil a year to join our guard rotation off the bench... take it or leave it"

Better yet, let's sign him on the cheap-cheap for the laughs, give him a solid two months of Rondo-centric offense, get them inflated stats back up, and then trade him for a 1st to some sucker team.  If he was worth a late 1st on an expiring contract, how much will inflated stat rondo and a 5 year contract fetch?

I wouldn't want Rondo back if they paid him minimum wage.  He's more trouble than he's worth.  The Rondo ship has sailed...time to move on and enjoy the Isaiah Thomas era.   

[LarBrd33]

That said, it's not like Rondo is dead.  He proved to be a solid player for us last season.  His per-36 numbers this season were the best in his career:  9 points, 12.3 assists, 8.5 rebounds, 1.9 steals.   SUrprised those are the best of his career?  Well people typically remember his amazing stats during playoff runs... playoff runs when he averaged upwards of 43 minutes per game.  This season he averaged 30 minutes for us.   THink about it. 

I agree with everything else you said. But note he is not putting up the best per 36 numbers of his career.

The good: Rondo's 12.2 assists/36 are the best of his career and his 8.5 rebounds/36 are the best of his career.

The bad: His 9.4 points/36 is the WORST of his career. His shooting percentages are pretty much the worst of his career (his 2 pt % was slightly worse last year). His 3.9 turnovers/36 are the worst of his career. His 1.9 steals/36 are close to a career low. Then you look as some more advanced metrics and they're horrible. ORtg? A dismal 95. DRtg? A subpar 103. Difference of -8? Worst of his career. And those are just his Boston statistics.

So I don't see those as being his best statistics of his career.

As you said, he's not fitting in with Dallas much either. Assists/36 are WAY off )7.9 vs 12.2 for BOS). Rebounds are WAY off (5.7 vs 8.5). Scoring is up 2ppg. He's dismal in their system.

Personally, I don't want him back in FA. I think the team is covered adequately at PG now and as you said, he doesn't fit the system.

Fair points... his FG% dipping was inevitable... that's what happens when you aren't surrounded by Ray Allen, KG and Paul Pierce.  But his assists/rebounds were the best per minute of his career while on Boston this season.

Truthfully, I knew Rondo would struggle in Dallas.... but he's been a complete disaster beyond anything I imagined.  That system is a horrible fit for him.  I still think someone will get Rondo next year and they'll use him appropriately.   That was a tremendously bad idea to think that Rondo would be able to come in and help spread the floor.  We have tons of evidence that proves he's effective as long as the ball is always in his hands.  Some team will find value in that.  That wasn't what Brad Stevens wanted to do here... The second we hired him, fans here who were familiar with Brad's coaching style in College warned us that Rondo wouldn't fit. 

[Kuberski33]

Really interesting thing is that Rondo was asking for 100 mil from Boston.  Ainge sending him to Dallas and watching him get exposed must be a heck of a humbling experience for Rondo.  Even a dumb team like the Lakers/Knicks would be a bit crazy to give him a max contract.   This is going to cost Rondo a lot of money.  Maybe Boston can reach out to him this offseason and say, "yo... 8 miil a year to join our guard rotation off the bench... take it or leave it"

Better yet, let's sign him on the cheap-cheap for the laughs, give him a solid two months of Rondo-centric offense, get them inflated stats back up, and then trade him for a 1st to some sucker team.  If he was worth a late 1st on an expiring contract, how much will inflated stat rondo and a 5 year contract fetch?

I wouldn't want Rondo back if they paid him minimum wage.  He's more trouble than he's worth.  The Rondo ship has sailed...time to move on and enjoy the Isaiah Thomas era.

The way the Celtics play now...Rondo doesn't fit - at all.  Guards need to be able to make the 3, move the ball and work hard defensively all the time.   None of those are in his skill set.  His major redeeming quality from the Celtics standpoint is his ability to get to the rim - but that gets offset by his inability to make foul shots plus his own stubbornness about penetrating.
 
I wouldn't take him back even for short money.

[Eddie20]

Really interesting thing is that Rondo was asking for 100 mil from Boston.  Ainge sending him to Dallas and watching him get exposed must be a heck of a humbling experience for Rondo.  Even a dumb team like the Lakers/Knicks would be a bit crazy to give him a max contract.   This is going to cost Rondo a lot of money.  Maybe Boston can reach out to him this offseason and say, "yo... 8 miil a year to join our guard rotation off the bench... take it or leave it"

Better yet, let's sign him on the cheap-cheap for the laughs, give him a solid two months of Rondo-centric offense, get them inflated stats back up, and then trade him for a 1st to some sucker team.  If he was worth a late 1st on an expiring contract, how much will inflated stat rondo and a 5 year contract fetch?

I wouldn't want Rondo back if they paid him minimum wage.  He's more trouble than he's worth.  The Rondo ship has sailed...time to move on and enjoy the Isaiah Thomas era.

The way the Celtics play now...Rondo doesn't fit - at all.  Guards need to be able to make the 3, move the ball and work hard defensively all the time.   None of those are in his skill set.  His major redeeming quality from the Celtics standpoint is his ability to get to the rim - but that gets offset by his inability to make foul shots plus his own stubbornness about penetrating.
 
I wouldn't take him back even for short money.

It's actually the way all teams play now. There is an emphasis on spacing like never before.

[hpantazo]

Really interesting thing is that Rondo was asking for 100 mil from Boston.  Ainge sending him to Dallas and watching him get exposed must be a heck of a humbling experience for Rondo.  Even a dumb team like the Lakers/Knicks would be a bit crazy to give him a max contract.   This is going to cost Rondo a lot of money.  Maybe Boston can reach out to him this offseason and say, "yo... 8 miil a year to join our guard rotation off the bench... take it or leave it"

Better yet, let's sign him on the cheap-cheap for the laughs, give him a solid two months of Rondo-centric offense, get them inflated stats back up, and then trade him for a 1st to some sucker team.  If he was worth a late 1st on an expiring contract, how much will inflated stat rondo and a 5 year contract fetch?

I wouldn't want Rondo back if they paid him minimum wage.  He's more trouble than he's worth.  The Rondo ship has sailed...time to move on and enjoy the Isaiah Thomas era.

The way the Celtics play now...Rondo doesn't fit - at all.  Guards need to be able to make the 3, move the ball and work hard defensively all the time.   None of those are in his skill set.  His major redeeming quality from the Celtics standpoint is his ability to get to the rim - but that gets offset by his inability to make foul shots plus his own stubbornness about penetrating.
 
I wouldn't take him back even for short money.

It's actually the way all teams play now. There is an emphasis on spacing like never before.

That's why LB33's argument is invalid that Rondo will go to a team this summer that will build their system to suit him. There is no team willing to do that, as they all know if can't be done if you hope to be successful. The league has changed, and Rondo has lost a few steps too. He will either have to adapt himself to fit into a smaller role somewhere or he will have a hard time keeping a job long term. The days of Rondo putting up great stat lines on a regular basis are over.

[D.o.s.]

Probably.

However, if the choice is between Stevens' offense and a Rondo centric system, even Rondo as he is today, I pick the point guard and never look back.

[Eddie20]

Probably.

However, if the choice is between Stevens' offense and a Rondo centric system, even Rondo as he is today, I pick the point guard and never look back.

I'll take the coach, who has shown the ability to have his players play hard for him, vs a moody flawed player, who's effort wavers from game to game, sometimes from quarter to quarter.

[TA9]

Carlisle actually did talk about Rondo at the press conference after the game.
It seems like he is still going with Rondo as his starting point guard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93qtgMY2MHU

Every time I hear Stephen A Smith talk I just shake my head and think wooow...