Author Topic: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors  (Read 23095 times)

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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #105 on: April 10, 2018, 09:40:33 AM »

Offline Casperian

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Tatum is a 6th man on a contender, at best.

If you can get Kawhi, you make this trade in a heartbeat.
In the summer of 2017, I predicted this team would not win a championship for the next 10 years.

3 down, 7 to go.

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #106 on: April 10, 2018, 01:27:29 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Tatum is a 6th man on a contender, at best.

If you can get Kawhi, you make this trade in a heartbeat.

 ???

I guess Paul Piece is also a 6th man on a contender...

Compare PP and JT's number, and you'll see they are eerily the same in almost every category minus the fact Tatum is 2 years younger, and already looks like he has the tools to be a superior defender.
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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #107 on: April 10, 2018, 01:46:32 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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So you would give up Tatum in a trade for Leonard?

Here was the rumor/speculation that I heard:
Celtics get: Leonard. Spurs get: forward Marcus Morris, guard Terry Rozier, forward Jayson Tatum, forward Daniel Theis, 2019 top-eight protected first-round pick (from Boston, via Memphis). So, is that too steep of a price to pay for one of the NBA’s best players? Perhaps, and Leonard is just one year away from free agency. But such a deal would give Boston a starting lineup of Leonard, Kyrie Irving, Gordon Hayward, Jaylen Brown and Al Horford. If you ask us, that squad could rival — and even surpass — the Golden State Warriors’ star-studded unit.

Read more at: https://nesn.com/2018/04/should-celtics-offer-this-hypothetical-trade-for-spurs-kawhi-leonard/

4 players and a Memphis protected pick for Leonard?  Would you really do this trade?
That trade isn't able to happen. We would need to add more salary. Probably need to send Yabu too.

So

Tatum, Rozier, Morris, Theis and Yabusele plus a pick or picks

For

Kawhi.

No way. Too much.If I could trade just Tatum and picks, I woukd do it but given we would need to shred the roster and rotation to get him, I would pass.
so you wouldn't want to give up Tatum and the 3rd PG, the 4th swing, the 4th big man, and a guy who spent most of the year in the GLeague for Leonard.  That seems a bit strange to me.

So post-trade, you'd have a starting 5 of Irving, Hayward, Leonard, Horford, Baynes.  The team would have Smart, Brown, and Monroe as the first 3 off the bench.  It would still have its own 2018 1st, Larkin, Semi, Nader, and Bird/Allen, plus whatever free agents could be added for the deeper bench.

I just don't get why all of the deep bench players would somehow be a deal breaker.  I like Tatum, but if Tatum is even 90% the player Leonard is, he would be a huge homerun and the odds of that happening are small.  Leonard also fits the Irving/Hayward/Horford timeline so much better, that the team has to make that trade.
Kinda making some large assumptions on returning players, aren't you? You have Baynes, Monroe and Smart all returning. That's a HUGE assumption and pretty hard to do given what the Cs have to offer. It could be that none of the three return and you have Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Kawhi, Horford and nothing but scrubs. Where's the rebounding? Where is the depth? With Smart, Monroe and Baynes not returning you are actually trading your 6th, 7th, 8th and possibly 11th players in your rotation going out not the 3rd PG, the 4th swing, the 4th big man, and a guy who spent most of the year in the GLeague.

 Even ackknowedlging the worstcase scenario, you still do that trade 100/100 times. Get the MVP player, worry about the rest later. With that lineup you are a prime destination for ring chasing veterans. How many really good teams are 10 players deep anyway? Come playoff time when your best players are going 40 minutes it matters a lot less. I'm not turning down Leonard to keep Rozier and Morris who we probably can't bring back after next year anyway.

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #108 on: April 10, 2018, 02:00:21 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Tatum is a 6th man on a contender, at best.

If you can get Kawhi, you make this trade in a heartbeat.

 ???

I guess Paul Piece is also a 6th man on a contender...

Compare PP and JT's number, and you'll see they are eerily the same in almost every category minus the fact Tatum is 2 years younger, and already looks like he has the tools to be a superior defender.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jayson+Tatum&player_id1_select=Jayson+Tatum&y1=2018&player_id1=tatumja01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Paul+Pierce&player_id2_select=Paul+Pierce&y2=1999&player_id2=piercpa01&idx=players

Not really “eerily the same”, for whatever it’s worth.

That said, Tatum is a starter on a quasi-contender already.


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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #109 on: April 10, 2018, 02:14:45 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Tatum is a 6th man on a contender, at best.

If you can get Kawhi, you make this trade in a heartbeat.

 ???

I guess Paul Piece is also a 6th man on a contender...

Compare PP and JT's number, and you'll see they are eerily the same in almost every category minus the fact Tatum is 2 years younger, and already looks like he has the tools to be a superior defender.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jayson+Tatum&player_id1_select=Jayson+Tatum&y1=2018&player_id1=tatumja01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Paul+Pierce&player_id2_select=Paul+Pierce&y2=1999&player_id2=piercpa01&idx=players

Not really “eerily the same”, for whatever it’s worth.

That said, Tatum is a starter on a quasi-contender already.

And a starter on an NBA finalist next season.


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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #110 on: April 10, 2018, 02:30:02 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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And a starter on an NBA finalist next season.

Possible, but more likely the starting 5 next season is:

Kyrie
Brown
Hayward
Horford
Some Big TBD

Tatum could well play 30 min/gm off the bench and still play a very important role.  I do not believe in playing either Tatum or Hayward as a big on a regular basis.  We need two bigs, real bigs.  Leonard is an intriguing player though.  I don't see a trade likely or needed.  If it was part of a larger trade that involved Leonard and Tatum, fine, but I would not trade them straight up (which is not a realistic trade for salary reasons anyway).

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #111 on: April 10, 2018, 02:51:31 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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And a starter on an NBA finalist next season.

Possible, but more likely the starting 5 next season is:

Kyrie
Brown
Hayward
Horford
Some Big TBD

Tatum could well play 30 min/gm off the bench and still play a very important role.  I do not believe in playing either Tatum or Hayward as a big on a regular basis.  We need two bigs, real bigs.  Leonard is an intriguing player though.  I don't see a trade likely or needed.  If it was part of a larger trade that involved Leonard and Tatum, fine, but I would not trade them straight up (which is not a realistic trade for salary reasons anyway).

Could be matchup dependent but I'd have no qualms about trying to small-ballling the hell out of opponents with a Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford lineup on most nights.  Let teams try to adapt to that.

Either way, it's a helluva good problem to have going forward when this team is full health.


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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #112 on: April 10, 2018, 03:32:32 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Tatum is a 6th man on a contender, at best.

If you can get Kawhi, you make this trade in a heartbeat.

 ???

I guess Paul Piece is also a 6th man on a contender...

Compare PP and JT's number, and you'll see they are eerily the same in almost every category minus the fact Tatum is 2 years younger, and already looks like he has the tools to be a superior defender.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jayson+Tatum&player_id1_select=Jayson+Tatum&y1=2018&player_id1=tatumja01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Paul+Pierce&player_id2_select=Paul+Pierce&y2=1999&player_id2=piercpa01&idx=players

Not really “eerily the same”, for whatever it’s worth.

That said, Tatum is a starter on a quasi-contender already.

If you take a look at PER-36, it is pretty much very similar.

Obviously Tatum isn't gonna have the same exact numbers, but considering Pierce played 4 more MPG, was the main scoring option most nights, and was 2 years older than Tatum... Yes I would think it looks 'eerily,' similar to me. Pierce's numbers are also inflated, due to him playing half as less games than Tatum.

But my point is that Tatum is projected by most scouts/pundits as a more athletic Pierce.
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #113 on: April 10, 2018, 03:41:48 PM »

Offline mctyson

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Tatum is a 6th man on a contender, at best.

If you can get Kawhi, you make this trade in a heartbeat.

LOL. He started all season for the Celtics.

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #114 on: April 10, 2018, 04:31:39 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote
But my point is that Tatum is projected by most scouts/pundits as a more athletic Pierce.

The same pundits that had him going 5th in the draft?

Projecting a rookie to be a better version of a HOFer seems pretty speculative to me.  I won’t be shocked if he gets there, but I won’t be surprised if he falls somewhere between Corey Maggette and Jamal Mashburn, either.

And, even if he becomes Paul Pierce, that’s still not as good as Kawhi Leonard.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 04:49:51 PM by Roy H. »


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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #115 on: April 10, 2018, 04:49:23 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Tatum is a 6th man on a contender, at best.

If you can get Kawhi, you make this trade in a heartbeat.

 ???

I guess Paul Piece is also a 6th man on a contender...

Compare PP and JT's number, and you'll see they are eerily the same in almost every category minus the fact Tatum is 2 years younger, and already looks like he has the tools to be a superior defender.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jayson+Tatum&player_id1_select=Jayson+Tatum&y1=2018&player_id1=tatumja01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Paul+Pierce&player_id2_select=Paul+Pierce&y2=1999&player_id2=piercpa01&idx=players

Not really “eerily the same”, for whatever it’s worth.

That said, Tatum is a starter on a quasi-contender already.

If you take a look at PER-36, it is pretty much very similar.

Obviously Tatum isn't gonna have the same exact numbers, but considering Pierce played 4 more MPG, was the main scoring option most nights, and was 2 years older than Tatum... Yes I would think it looks 'eerily,' similar to me. Pierce's numbers are also inflated, due to him playing half as less games than Tatum.

But my point is that Tatum is projected by most scouts/pundits as a more athletic Pierce.
The less games actually deflates Pierce's numbers because he was better at the end of the year then the beginning (that was the 50 game season so Pierce only missed 2 games).  Pierce was a more consistent option for Boston, though was 3rd on the team in shots behind Toine and Mercer.  For much of the year Tatum was a role player offensively (he is 5th on the team in shots per game and just ahead of Rozier).  His shooting efficiency has gone down as his role has increased. 
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Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #116 on: April 10, 2018, 04:50:23 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Quote
But my point is that Tatum is projected by most scouts/pundits as a more athletic Pierce.

The same pundits that had him going 5th in the draft?

Projecting a rookie to be a better version of a HOFer seems pretty speculative to me.  I won’t be shocked if he gets there, but I won’t be surprised if he falls somewhere between Corey Maggette and Jamal Mashburn, either.

Sure he could... But I doubt it, considering Tatum is already a better shooter by both metrics, and Magette and Jamal were bonafide prolific scorers, but never ever became two way players which would've elevated their status higher.

Plus... If the same HoF in question is giving him a positive and ringing endorsement, I have to trust his judgement over scouts/pundits....
Quote
“He looks like an older version of me, when I started doing the step-back and stuff,” Pierce said in an exclusive interview with CSN. “When I’m watching him, he looks like a mature version of my game, like sixth, seventh, eighth year. He sees the defense. He knows what’s going to happen before it happens. He understands his position, footwork, his step-back (jumper) is there. His offensive repertoire seems complete. The sky is the limit for that kid.”

Tatum is a 6th man on a contender, at best.

If you can get Kawhi, you make this trade in a heartbeat.

 ???

I guess Paul Piece is also a 6th man on a contender...

Compare PP and JT's number, and you'll see they are eerily the same in almost every category minus the fact Tatum is 2 years younger, and already looks like he has the tools to be a superior defender.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jayson+Tatum&player_id1_select=Jayson+Tatum&y1=2018&player_id1=tatumja01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Paul+Pierce&player_id2_select=Paul+Pierce&y2=1999&player_id2=piercpa01&idx=players

Not really “eerily the same”, for whatever it’s worth.

That said, Tatum is a starter on a quasi-contender already.

If you take a look at PER-36, it is pretty much very similar.

Obviously Tatum isn't gonna have the same exact numbers, but considering Pierce played 4 more MPG, was the main scoring option most nights, and was 2 years older than Tatum... Yes I would think it looks 'eerily,' similar to me. Pierce's numbers are also inflated, due to him playing half as less games than Tatum.

But my point is that Tatum is projected by most scouts/pundits as a more athletic Pierce.
The less games actually deflates Pierce's numbers because he was better at the end of the year then the beginning (that was the 50 game season so Pierce only missed 2 games).  Pierce was a more consistent option for Boston, though was 3rd on the team in shots behind Toine and Mercer.  For much of the year Tatum was a role player offensively (he is 5th on the team in shots per game and just ahead of Rozier).  His shooting efficiency has gone down as his role has increased.

They are all valid points, but my statement was just in response mainly to the ridiculous notion that Tatum is a 6th man at best. Tatum could end up being a bust. But that doesn't make that outlandish statement anymore false.
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #117 on: April 12, 2018, 03:57:51 AM »

Offline Casperian

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Tatum is a 6th man on a contender, at best.

If you can get Kawhi, you make this trade in a heartbeat.

LOL. He started all season for the Celtics.

This team isn't a contender, they just have a few wins in the east.

Get real.
In the summer of 2017, I predicted this team would not win a championship for the next 10 years.

3 down, 7 to go.

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #118 on: April 12, 2018, 04:07:07 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Tatum is a 6th man on a contender, at best.

If you can get Kawhi, you make this trade in a heartbeat.

LOL. He started all season for the Celtics.

This team isn't a contender, they just have a few wins in the east.

Get real.
Wow. How about Fultz and Lonzo? Are they future GOATs?  Also did you mean ceiling or this season lol
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Tommy & Gorman Have Right Idea On Kawhi-to-Boston Rumors
« Reply #119 on: April 12, 2018, 04:26:17 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Tatum is a 6th man on a contender, at best.

If you can get Kawhi, you make this trade in a heartbeat.

LOL. He started all season for the Celtics.

This team isn't a contender, they just have a few wins in the east.

Get real.

Your shtick is tiresome but it’s attention you so desperately crave, so I’ll oblige.

55 wins, 22-8 record against the West. That’s the 4th-most wins in the entire league and second-best winning percentage against the West, behind only Houston. They went 11-5 against the West’s 8 playoff teams (and 8-2 vs top-5).

All while missing their second-best player. Another 100+ games lost to injury to other key players.

If you don’t think this team at full-strength isn’t a contender, we’ll then you’re not a troll, you’re blind.
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