Let's Assume Rebuilding Begins in Earnest This Summer

[Who]

The best thing that could happen to this team in terms of rebuilding would unfortunately be a lockout.

Why? I mean, how does a lockout help them?

If it invalidates current contracts, I suppose?  I doubt that would happen, though.  Maybe he just means a drastically shortened season, which might actually give a super old team like ours a chance to win (though I doubt that, too, since major injuries hit our team halfway through the season the last two years).

I'm not entirely sure ... but didn't they have to pack a lot more games into a shorter schedule during the last lockout?

I'd be worried about the older teams (like the C's) in that scenario. Less rest between games is worrisome.

[PosImpos]

The prudent thing to do would probably be to trade Ray and KG.  However, unless they specifically ask for it, I'd like to see us keep them.  I'm just not in a huge hurry to lose 60 games per year and start rooting for the team to lose again.  I'd rather have our "big three" here for a few more years.

That's more sentimental rather than doing what's best for the team's future.  However, I'd rather role the dice, trade Rondo and pieces for CP3, add to the core in free agency, and hope that we catch lightning in a bottle again.

I appreciate and respect your desire not to return to the days of losing 60 each season and praying on lottery picks.  However, I'm not interested in watching the Celtics remain a fringe contender / first or second round speed bump for the next 3-4 years and thus delay reaching a point when the Celtics are actually relevant again.

I think if there's any opportunity to acquire CP3 and begin to build around him, though, you have to go for it.  Unlike Rondo, Chris Paul is absolutely the sort of player you can build a team around as long as he stays healthy.

[the_Bird]

Assuming they get their butts handed to them twice again in the next five games...

I don't see how they can realistically get back to championship-contender in one offseason, keeping the Big 4.  They need an athletic center, they need a good backup PF (Baby ain't cutting it), and they need a good backup SF (same with Green).  They'll have the MLE to work with, vet minimum contracts to work with, and they might be able to get something in a BBD sign-and-trade (and maybe with Green as well).  

Not a lot of other trade assets on the squad.  Those that they have (Bradley, the Clippers pick), they're going to save, for the same reason they'd trade Ray before KG.

KG's contract would be VERY useful if Orlando puts Dwight Howard on the block next season.

Orlando won't trade Dwight this summer, no way, they can't.  If they're still playing like crap next year, though, and he looks ready to walk, a lot stranger things have happened.  KG's expiring contract, maybe Ray's (expiring contract), and whatever other trade assets we have...  maybe something could happen.  

We'd almost certainly have to absorb some of their other bad contracts (Arenas...  yikes).  But, they won't trade KG this summer no matter what happens against Miami, because they could well need him to get Dwight.  

[PosImpos]

  On what planet is Ray a more valuable player than KG?

He isn't; he probably would be easier to trade, though, since he has a smaller contract and we'd expect to receive less in return for him.

I suppose I should clarify "most value to a contender" to mean "best able to function in a minimized role off the bench for a team with an established starting 5."

I have a feeling KG would want to either start and be a major part of a team or retire.

  Not all contenders have established starting fives, in fact none of them really do.

Well, which of the contenders in win-now mode would oust their current starting PF for KG?  Orlando, probably, but they don't have any pieces worth our trouble.  San Antonio could be interested in making one more run with a duo of KG and Duncan, I guess.  Not sure how much they'd have to offer, though.  The Lakers have an established front court, as do the Thunder and Hawks.  I don't see the Nuggets or Rockets going into win-now mode.  I don't see the Blazers putting KG or Aldridge at center.  The Bucks might be interested, considering all the money they have invested in their team at the moment.  

What other palatable options do you see?  

[Shamrocker]

Here are my thoughts:



5) Keep Paul Pierce around.  It'll maintain a team identity through the first couple years of the rebuilding process, and keep fans buying tickets to come to see their favorite hero in green from the last decade.  He probably has the most trade value of any of the Big 3, but he has a couple years left on a hefty contract, so trading him would be complicated and we'd likely not be satisfied with what we'd get in return.  

The inference, of course, is that Paul Pierce will be content to hang around during a prolonged rebuild.  At his age, why wouldn’t he demand a trade?

[BballTim]

The prudent thing to do would probably be to trade Ray and KG.  However, unless they specifically ask for it, I'd like to see us keep them.  I'm just not in a huge hurry to lose 60 games per year and start rooting for the team to lose again.  I'd rather have our "big three" here for a few more years.

That's more sentimental rather than doing what's best for the team's future.  However, I'd rather role the dice, trade Rondo and pieces for CP3, add to the core in free agency, and hope that we catch lightning in a bottle again.

I appreciate and respect your desire not to return to the days of losing 60 each season and praying on lottery picks.  However, I'm not interested in watching the Celtics remain a fringe contender / first or second round speed bump for the next 3-4 years and thus delay reaching a point when the Celtics are actually relevant again.

I think if there's any opportunity to acquire CP3 and begin to build around him, though, you have to go for it.  Unlike Rondo, Chris Paul is absolutely the sort of player you can build a team around as long as he stays healthy.

  What you're talking about is basically the same as if, in 1989 or so, Red had unloaded the big three for late round draft picks in order to speed our trip to the bottom. I don't think that would have greatly lessened our time at the bottom. And, let's face it, if not for some great trades we'd either still be there or have a roster that might peak at "fringe contender" like so many teams have done.

[FatjohnReturns]

The prudent thing to do would probably be to trade Ray and KG.  However, unless they specifically ask for it, I'd like to see us keep them.  I'm just not in a huge hurry to lose 60 games per year and start rooting for the team to lose again.  I'd rather have our "big three" here for a few more years.

That's more sentimental rather than doing what's best for the team's future.  However, I'd rather role the dice, trade Rondo and pieces for CP3, add to the core in free agency, and hope that we catch lightning in a bottle again.

Agree
Rondo and Baby for Chris Paul or
Rondo and Jeff Green for Paul and Ariza.

[the_Bird]

Here are my thoughts:



5) Keep Paul Pierce around.  It'll maintain a team identity through the first couple years of the rebuilding process, and keep fans buying tickets to come to see their favorite hero in green from the last decade.  He probably has the most trade value of any of the Big 3, but he has a couple years left on a hefty contract, so trading him would be complicated and we'd likely not be satisfied with what we'd get in return.  

The inference, of course, is that Paul Pierce will be content to hang around during a prolonged rebuild.  At his age, why wouldn’t he demand a trade?

Pierce signed that contract extension knowing that it extended well beyond KG's and Ray's deals, and knowing that the C's were likely going to be "out of window" and rebuilding before his deal expired.

Total conjecture, but I don't see Pierce having as much of an issue helping with a rebuild now that he's had his own title.  Maybe he does ask for a trade, or maybe he sees himself as the bridge to the team's next generation.  I just see Pierce as being in a different spot than he was immediately prior to the KG and Ray trades, I see him as a guy that'll slug it out and be a good soldier (as long as they aren't tanking).

[Kwhit10]

The best thing that could happen to this team in terms of rebuilding would unfortunately be a lockout.

Why? I mean, how does a lockout help them?

If it invalidates current contracts, I suppose?  I doubt that would happen, though.  Maybe he just means a drastically shortened season, which might actually give a super old team like ours a chance to win (though I doubt that, too, since major injuries hit our team halfway through the season the last two years).


I have a hard time disagreeing with people who say that it might not make sense to try and trade either Ray or KG this summer because we probably wouldn't get much in return for them.  I do maintain, however, that Danny should explore every opportunity to trade Glen Davis and Rondo, with Jeff Green as a possible piece in a bigger trade.

If next season is locked out that means the contracts of Ray and KG would essentially expire since that season is lost.  We'd then enter 2012 with all our cap space without playing the season. The year off may have Ray or more likely KG retire, or they would be well rested to come back to the team cheaper.

[PosImpos]

Here are my thoughts:



5) Keep Paul Pierce around.  It'll maintain a team identity through the first couple years of the rebuilding process, and keep fans buying tickets to come to see their favorite hero in green from the last decade.  He probably has the most trade value of any of the Big 3, but he has a couple years left on a hefty contract, so trading him would be complicated and we'd likely not be satisfied with what we'd get in return. 

The inference, of course, is that Paul Pierce will be content to hang around during a prolonged rebuild.  At his age, why wouldn’t he demand a trade?

It's a good point, and I'm not sure that he wouldn't.  I'm just saying that the team probably shouldn't look into trading Paul unless he demands it.

[PosImpos]

The prudent thing to do would probably be to trade Ray and KG.  However, unless they specifically ask for it, I'd like to see us keep them.  I'm just not in a huge hurry to lose 60 games per year and start rooting for the team to lose again.  I'd rather have our "big three" here for a few more years.

That's more sentimental rather than doing what's best for the team's future.  However, I'd rather role the dice, trade Rondo and pieces for CP3, add to the core in free agency, and hope that we catch lightning in a bottle again.

I appreciate and respect your desire not to return to the days of losing 60 each season and praying on lottery picks.  However, I'm not interested in watching the Celtics remain a fringe contender / first or second round speed bump for the next 3-4 years and thus delay reaching a point when the Celtics are actually relevant again.

I think if there's any opportunity to acquire CP3 and begin to build around him, though, you have to go for it.  Unlike Rondo, Chris Paul is absolutely the sort of player you can build a team around as long as he stays healthy.

  What you're talking about is basically the same as if, in 1989 or so, Red had unloaded the big three for late round draft picks in order to speed our trip to the bottom. I don't think that would have greatly lessened our time at the bottom. And, let's face it, if not for some great trades we'd either still be there or have a roster that might peak at "fringe contender" like so many teams have done.

I don't disagree that it sucks, and there is no guarantee the next version of the Celtics don't peak as a fringe contender like the Hawks, Blazers, and Nuggets have done the past few years.

Unfortunately, there just isn't any other way to do it from what I can see.  The only way to build your team back to relevance is to be clever and patient with trades, get lucky in the lottery, and draft well.  

That is, unless you are a prime free agent destination like LA, NY, or Miami -- and even the Lakers and the Heat had to draft Kobe, Bynum, and Wade to get where they are.  Boston is really not a prime free agent destination, though, so I think it's the San Antonio / OKC / Portland method for us.

It would be nice if things were different, but they aren't.  The NBA system requires teams to become terrible before they can become great again.  The only other options are to be fantastically lucky (getting a top 3 pick after just missing the playoffs like the Bulls did) or to buy up or trade for major free agents with secondary assets.

[action781]

The prudent thing to do would probably be to trade Ray and KG.  However, unless they specifically ask for it, I'd like to see us keep them.  I'm just not in a huge hurry to lose 60 games per year and start rooting for the team to lose again.  I'd rather have our "big three" here for a few more years.

That's more sentimental rather than doing what's best for the team's future.  However, I'd rather role the dice, trade Rondo and pieces for CP3, add to the core in free agency, and hope that we catch lightning in a bottle again.

Agree
Rondo and Baby for Chris Paul or
Rondo and Jeff Green for Paul and Ariza.

I agree with Roy and like both of these offers.  I'd prefer to hold on to Green though to see if we could flip him and draft picks to another team for another great player.

I keep dreaming about Ray, Green, and multiple first round picks for Dwight and Redick (or other bad contract)...  I think if we have already landed CP and have PP and KG, there's a chance Dwight will extend with us.

[BballTim]

The prudent thing to do would probably be to trade Ray and KG.  However, unless they specifically ask for it, I'd like to see us keep them.  I'm just not in a huge hurry to lose 60 games per year and start rooting for the team to lose again.  I'd rather have our "big three" here for a few more years.

That's more sentimental rather than doing what's best for the team's future.  However, I'd rather role the dice, trade Rondo and pieces for CP3, add to the core in free agency, and hope that we catch lightning in a bottle again.

I appreciate and respect your desire not to return to the days of losing 60 each season and praying on lottery picks.  However, I'm not interested in watching the Celtics remain a fringe contender / first or second round speed bump for the next 3-4 years and thus delay reaching a point when the Celtics are actually relevant again.

I think if there's any opportunity to acquire CP3 and begin to build around him, though, you have to go for it.  Unlike Rondo, Chris Paul is absolutely the sort of player you can build a team around as long as he stays healthy.

  What you're talking about is basically the same as if, in 1989 or so, Red had unloaded the big three for late round draft picks in order to speed our trip to the bottom. I don't think that would have greatly lessened our time at the bottom. And, let's face it, if not for some great trades we'd either still be there or have a roster that might peak at "fringe contender" like so many teams have done.

I don't disagree that it sucks, and there is no guarantee the next version of the Celtics don't peak as a fringe contender like the Hawks, Blazers, and Nuggets have done the past few years.

Unfortunately, there just isn't any other way to do it from what I can see.  The only way to build your team back to relevance is to be clever and patient with trades, get lucky in the lottery, and draft well.  

That is, unless you are a prime free agent destination like LA, NY, or Miami -- and even the Lakers and the Heat had to draft Kobe, Bynum, and Wade to get where they are.  Boston is really not a prime free agent destination, though, so I think it's the San Antonio / OKC / Portland method for us.

It would be nice if things were different, but they aren't.  The NBA system requires teams to become terrible before they can become great again.  The only other options are to be fantastically lucky (getting a top 3 pick after just missing the playoffs like the Bulls did) or to buy up or trade for major free agents with secondary assets.

  The Bulls started their rebuild in, what, 96 or so? They probably had the top pick in the draft 3 times or so in the last 15 years and probably 8 or so top 5 picks. Even with all that luck in the lottery if they'd have lost the Rose lottery they'd still be nowhere. I wouldn't rush into "suck and build through the draft" any sooner than necessary, meaning basically that I'd exhausted all other options.

[StartOrien]

Two words: Time machine

[JadeBlack]

Rondo has shown he can't carry his team on his back like CP3 so should be shopped. If Doc goes Kg has already said he will retire. KG also has said this is his last contract so to be traded into a lesser role like he said allstar break he'll "fade into black"and quietly go into retirement. Ray has said he has a couple more years in him but put into a lesser role he'll move on in his life. Now Paul has said Doc, Kg, Ray go he would also think about retiring doesn't want to be the only old guy on the team. These guys have made their $ they don't to be sticking around in lesser roles...pride. So if Danny still around as GM he just might have to be filling the Big 3 rosters spots without tradng.