If you are what you are.....

[EJPLAYA]

Then since Christmas Night, when the Celtic beat Orlando to go 23-5, a span of 98 days or 14 weeks, the Celtics are 24-23. That's right, for a span of time that is longer than a quarter of a calendar year the Boston Celtics have been basically a .500 team.

And the time for reasoning is up. They were injured. They had people playing in different roles. They were bored. They were rehabbing and playing back into game shape. They were saving themselves. When everyone was healthy and playing together again, you watch, things will change.

Well, they haven't. Since March 7th they have, with the exception of Perk missing two games, been healthy and intact and playing their roles. They have looked much better on a consistent basis but the results have been the same. In that time they are 7-7.

You want to be optimistic and positive and not count this team out until they are down by more than one possession of the ball with seconds left on the clock in a season ending loss in the playoffs, well, that's your prerogative and it's understandable. I will be cheering to the very end right along with you.

But you can not deny admitting that this team is what it is. And what it is is a very inconsistent, very mediocre .500 team that has trouble giving a proper effort every game and has major rebounding and turnover prone deficiencies that tax an already aging core to do more than they might have within themselves to give.

Could they suddenly shelve everything that plagues them and go on a roll and beat everyone? Sure they could. Anything is possible. But how even the most optimistic of Celtics fans can't look at the results of the last 3+ months and can't admit that the likelihood of a championship is diminishing quicker than the likelihood of a Tiger and Elin reconciliation, is beyond me.

We're a .500 team without Ray Allen and with KG playing as he did tonight, but this team has been showing a lot of flashes of the team that started out so hot.  They're not catching any breaks right now.

We still have a pretty dynamite starting 5, and we have theoretically solid options backing up the 1 and the 5.  We have a mushy, unpleasant rotation of inconsistent back-ups 2-4.

If KG can play 35 minutes a night, Sheed and Nate can step it up for the playoffs, and one of TA/Quis/Finley can fill the 20 minute wing role, we go from mediocre to deadly.  If we get two out of three we're solid.  If we can just get one, we're a lot better than we are now.

Championship teams don't need breaks. They MAKE their own breaks. They out-hustle the other team. They out-defend the other team. They play THEIR style of basketball not let the other team dictate play. Especially in their own building.

This is so far away from a Championship team it isn't funny. We know that, the players know that. The reason they let leads slip away and can't close out teams is because they realize they can't get the stops when needed. We are a mediocre defensive team and a solid offensive team. We will be lucky to get out of the first round, and it would take a colossal collapse by the other squad for us to get out of the second. It isn't going to happen. Welcome to rebuilding, because after this first or second round exit that is where we are guys. It is what it is. Reality...

[barefacedmonk]

Well you gotta remember. On the radio the other day Pierce said "Honestly I think we're a team that's more built for the playoffs" and "You only have to be better than 4 teams in the playoffs"

We just have to hope those teams aren't the Hawks, Cavs, Spurs, Lakers, Bucks, etc

Also I'm not sure how Pierce thinks playing with little effort or savvy translates better to the playoffs, but he knows better than I do I guess.

They are not playing with little effort they are playing they're butts off but just getting beat.  

I was going to say in the other thread it's great they're playing hard and just getting beat by the Rockets. That's a total upgrade from where we were not long ago. But there comes a point where it's too little too late.

The Pats play 16 games. They aren't allowed to play 14 lazy ones, then 2 good ones and suddenly I have to start acknowledging how hard they are trying.

Football and Basketball are two completely different games.  Football is a sprint and Basketball is a marathon.

Right, but those Kenyan guys don't let younger guys get 10 miles ahead and then try to switch a flip in the last 3 miles.  They set the pace.  

Huh...a football field measures 13 miles in length? And when did Kenya become a good football team?

[jdpapa3]

I see what you're saying, but we are 47-28, and not 24-23. It doesn't make complete sense to me to start counting the games right from when the injuries started piling up. Not exactly fair.

I think it is very fair in determining the caliber of team they are right now, as compared to what they have been for the whole year. For the whole year they are 47-28 and a top 10 NBA team. But for right now, this very instant, they are playing more like, and getting results more like, the 24-23 team they have been for 47 games and not like the 23-5 team they were for 28 games 14 weeks ago.

14 weeks is a long time ago when you are talking NBA seasons. And as much as they have been playing better, the results are much the same. They are 7-7 since March 7th as well when they have been healthy.

I still don't think it's fair or even very helpful as a way to gauge the team to lump in all those games where Pierce and KG were either out of action or not all the way back from injury.  

I count 7-7 since Pierce has been right(just like you have) and an overall 30-12 with actual health.

You might see glaring green glasses coming from this point of view, but I really do think it is justified. My reasoning isn't 100% based off of pipe dreams and emotion. When you have the top statistical starting 5 in basketball and top defense, you still have a fighter's chance.  

[vinnie]

I see what you're saying, but we are 47-28, and not 24-23. It doesn't make complete sense to me to start counting the games right from when the injuries started piling up. Not exactly fair.

I think it is very fair in determining the caliber of team they are right now, as compared to what they have been for the whole year. For the whole year they are 47-28 and a top 10 NBA team. But for right now, this very instant, they are playing more like, and getting results more like, the 24-23 team they have been for 47 games and not like the 23-5 team they were for 28 games 14 weeks ago.

14 weeks is a long time ago when you are talking NBA seasons. And as much as they have been playing better, the results are much the same. They are 7-7 since March 7th as well when they have been healthy.

I still don't think it's fair or even very helpful as a way to gauge the team to lump in all those games where Pierce and KG were either out of action or not all the way back from injury.  

I count 7-7 since Pierce has been right(just like you have) and an overall 30-12 with actual health.

You might see glaring green glasses coming from this point of view, but I really do think it is justified. My reasoning isn't 100% based off of pipe dreams and emotion. When you have the top statistical starting 5 in basketball and top defense, you still have a fighter's chance.  

The only thing I would ask you is this: Do you think that right now the Celtics are playing more poorly than any of the other real contenders? Most of them, except for the Lakers, are starting to turn it on, while others have been playing great for the last month and continue to play well. I simply do not remember a team playing as poorly as this team has been playing since Christmas, or even at 7-7 in the last 14 games, that then all of a sudden was able to turn on the jets and win a championship.

[Bahku]

Then since Christmas Night, when the Celtic beat Orlando to go 23-5, a span of 98 days or 14 weeks, the Celtics are 24-23. That's right, for a span of time that is longer than a quarter of a calendar year the Boston Celtics have been basically a .500 team.

And the time for reasoning is up. They were injured. They had people playing in different roles. They were bored. They were rehabbing and playing back into game shape. They were saving themselves. When everyone was healthy and playing together again, you watch, things will change.

Well, they haven't. Since March 7th they have, with the exception of Perk missing two games, been healthy and intact and playing their roles. They have looked much better on a consistent basis but the results have been the same. In that time they are 7-7.

You want to be optimistic and positive and not count this team out until they are down by more than one possession of the ball with seconds left on the clock in a season ending loss in the playoffs, well, that's your prerogative and it's understandable. I will be cheering to the very end right along with you.

But you can not deny admitting that this team is what it is. And what it is is a very inconsistent, very mediocre .500 team that has trouble giving a proper effort every game and has major rebounding and turnover prone deficiencies that tax an already aging core to do more than they might have within themselves to give.

Could they suddenly shelve everything that plagues them and go on a roll and beat everyone? Sure they could. Anything is possible. But how even the most optimistic of Celtics fans can't look at the results of the last 3+ months and can't admit that the likelihood of a championship is diminishing quicker than the likelihood of a Tiger and Elin reconciliation, is beyond me.

It's really a stroke of genius ... we're just lulling teams into a false sense of security for the playoffs.

[PosImpos]

Who cares if they were a 23-5 team to start the season?  As you've so aptly pointed out, they've been basically a .500 team since then.  You're totally right - they are what they are.

The team you have in April is the one that matters, not the team you have in November.  The Celtics in April wouldn't have made the playoffs if they were in the Western Conference; they'd be a 7th or 8th seed in the East.

[Drucci]

Playoffs are still a different animal. But, of course, the Celtics have been a major disappointment since Christmas, and especially since recent weeks because they seemed to have turned the ship to finally sink again (and they don't have the "injury" excuse anymore - or partially, because you can't overlook Perk's absence since he is really the key in our inside defense - ).

So, all we can say now is wait and see. We will probably play Cleveland in the 2nd round, and I know we can beat them.

To be honest, I've never wanted so much to see the playoffs come so quickly. Every year I'm getting excited and impatient about it but this year is way beyond all the previous years in terms of "are we there yet??". So let's hope the C's don't disappoint us in the playoffs too.

[PosImpos]

Playoffs are still a different animal. But, of course, the Celtics have been a major disappointment since Christmas, and especially since recent weeks because they seemed to have turned the ship to finally sink again (and they don't have the "injury" excuse anymore - or partially, because you can't overlook Perk's absence since he is really the key in our inside defense - ).

So, all we can say now is wait and see. We will probably play Cleveland in the 2nd round, and I know we can beat them.

To be honest, I've never wanted so much to see the playoffs come so quickly. Every year I'm getting excited and impatient about it but this year is way beyond all the previous years in terms of "are we there yet??". So let's hope the C's don't disappoint us in the playoffs too.

The only way that the Celtics could change my mind at all about their post-season chances would be for them to beat the Cavs convincingly on Sunday and then beat Milwaukee in both of their upcoming matches.

The playoffs are somewhat different, but I think that's overrated.  If anything, the fact that it's the playoffs will make it even harder for the Celtics to beat the Cavs or Magic, not easier.

[nickagneta]

I was starting to feel really pumped after the trip through Texas. But a tough loss in Utah, followed shortly thereafter by a near collapse against the Kings at home and then three straight losses, one a blowout and two in which they played awful defense, has soured my optimism.

I feel that if they were going to be a real contender that they would have just continued to build off the momentum they were building following that Memphis loss at home a couple of weeks ago. Instead, they come home and instead of protecting their home turf and showing the grit and backbone of a champion, they turtle for three straight losses and now have to face Cleveland for possibly a 4th straight home loss.

Performances like we have seen this week in our own building, this deep in the season versus playoff caliber competition, does not bode well as a precursor for what we can expect to see in the playoffs. I go on vacation on the 14th of this month and don't return to Boston until the 25th. I only hope when I come back from vacation that the Celtics aren't already on vacation.

[CoachBo]

I'd love to be wrong about this, but I've seen absolutely nothing to change my mind from January, when I wrote here that the window is closed.

This team is too unathletic and too old to make a serious run at a title. Our ability to match up with younger, athletic teams like Cleveland is gone. I totally disagree that we match up well with them. Three or four games are predictably Fools Gold as an old team declines.

The season doesn't have long to go, I am afraid.

[greg_kite]

The playoffs are all about matchups, injuries and hot streaks. 

If we get Miami in the first round it should be easy.  Orlando would be beatable in the second round.  The games we lost to them were with a Pierce that was getting beaten by Matt Barnes.  I think with Pierce closer to full health it will be a different story.

Then you could luck out and get an injury to Lebron or Varajao and upset the Cavs.  I would take the C's over any team but the Lakers (I hate saying that) and there's your title!

Not likely to happen but not impossible.  I think an East Finals trip would be considered an accomplishment for this team but not surprising.  I don't know about you guys but it's still a helluva lot more fun to watch than the days before the Big Three.

Stop complaining and enjoy the time where there is still a glimmer of hope!

[timpiker]

Their real problem is that KG does not play stifling defense like he once did.  He used to cover the whole lane and the corners as well.  I never understood how Thibodeau's D worked but it really worked because of KG - the KG of 2 years ago.  Their D is no longer there and it magnifies all of the other weaknesses.

[Andy Jick]

Somebody go ask the Denver Broncos how they felt about their hot start to this past season...

[ManUp]

I was starting to feel really pumped after the trip through Texas. But a tough loss in Utah, followed shortly thereafter by a near collapse against the Kings at home and then three straight losses, one a blowout and two in which they played awful defense, has soured my optimism.

I feel that if they were going to be a real contender that they would have just continued to build off the momentum they were building following that Memphis loss at home a couple of weeks ago. Instead, they come home and instead of protecting their home turf and showing the grit and backbone of a champion, they turtle for three straight losses and now have to face Cleveland for possibly a 4th straight home loss.

Performances like we have seen this week in our own building, this deep in the season versus playoff caliber competition, does not bode well as a precursor for what we can expect to see in the playoffs. I go on vacation on the 14th of this month and don't return to Boston until the 25th. I only hope when I come back from vacation that the Celtics aren't already on vacation.

This basically sums up how I've felt about the last 5-6 games. Just when I thought this team was going to get up for that big run they just lay back down. This team has been a giant dissapoint for me this year. At this point I'm clinging to the once percent possibility because i'm 99 percent sure this team isn't going to do anything this post-season.

[More Banners]

I don't know about you guys but it's still a helluva lot more fun to watch than the days before the Big Three.

Stop complaining and enjoy the time where there is still a glimmer of hope!

I definitely get where you're coming from here, but am starting to disagree.

1)  A team loaded with young talent (us, pre-KG) is expected to play with inconsistency, so it isn't as heartbreaking.

2)  When a young team shows flashes of coming together and playing at a high level, even if only for spurts, it provides a glimmer of hope for now, and much hope for the future.  When a veteran team only shows flashes in spurts, there is a glimmer of hope for the present, but no hope for the future.

3)  A young team can get better.  A veteran team is what it is, and is more likely to get worse than better without some major change (minutes, lineups, or roster moves).

4)  A young team probably has players that can get to the rim and actually finish when they get there.

I dunno...I'm running out of reasons to have hope with the current roster.  I think we can make it out of the 1st round, but that's about it.

I'm with vinnie...looking forward to the rebuild.