Author Topic: Smart vs. Brogdon  (Read 6561 times)

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Re: Smart vs. Brogdon
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2019, 06:12:16 AM »

Online BitterJim

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The Celtics as a team are not better without Smart...or Kyrie...or Brown...or Hayward. They simply aren't. The notion is ridiculous.

Now if you want to argue the team is better when Stevens is forced into a tighter rotation with proof being the team's record with one of its first ten players out...okay I can get behind that. But the team is not better without those individual players.
The best version of the team leans heavily on Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, Horford and Brown.   They all need major minutes. 

Look, there are plenty of players in this league I think are good.  Go ahead and pick 10 random players who are "good". 

Cool... add them all to the mix with Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum, Horford and Brown.  Have them all play 5-10 minutes per game.

You think that is going to work?

It's not going to work.

Players need rhythm.  Hayward and Brown both play significantly better when they have more minutes and more touches to get comfortable.  Same can be said about Rozier, actually.  Check out Rozier's stats as a starter this season vs coming off the bench.  Guys play far better with defined roles and more time.  It's not a coincidence that this team has played it's best when less guys are in the mix.  That was the case in the playoffs last year.  That was the case when any individual sat out.  It's the case right now with Smart out.   Having 10 starters doesn't work.  If adding Smart back in the mix means Hayward going back to 22-25 minutes - it's a net negative.  There's little logic to your "all-star" getting 20 minutes because you have 9 other guys who need 20 minutes.

Glad this rotation is working right now.  I was one of the few who thought the Smart injury would be a blessing in disguise.  We have an 8 man rotation that makes sense.  That's not an attack on Smart.  Morris is good too, but I think there's a valid case to be made that you'd get more from Brown and Hayward without Morris in the mix.

Too many guys.  It was a problem all season.  Our poor chemistry was a direct result of that.

There is no reason that Smart coming back will mean that Hayward's minutes drop drastically. His minutes will come mainly at the expense of Rozier

This isn't a case of a high-usage guy or the worst member of our rotation coming back - Smart's impact comes mostly on the defensive end and he is much better than Rozier

Now, if you want to argue that Smart coming back could make the team worse because Rozier will be out of rhythm, or take the ball out of Hayward's hands, or change Jaylen's role and screw up his rhythm, okay. But saying that him coming back will screw up rotations and force Hayward to play fewer minutes? No
I'm bitter.

Re: Smart vs. Brogdon
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2019, 07:38:50 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I would not bring Smart back in the middle of a series if it continues to go well.

Re: Smart vs. Brogdon
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2019, 08:29:53 AM »

Offline JBcat

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I remember early In the season we were getting torched by shooting guards, and when Smart was inserted in the starting lineup that helped a lot.

Maybe Brown has gotten a lot better defensively since the beginning of the season (he was also fighting injuries to start the season), but we have also only faced Wes Matthews and Sterling Brown as starting shooting guards in the playoffs.  Jaylen could have been matched up with Middleton more (maybe someone savvy with advanced metrics can show the breakdown of how often Brown guarded Middleton).

Maybe if we were facing a shooting guard like Bradley Beal we would want Smart back in with the starters.

Re: Smart vs. Brogdon
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2019, 08:54:30 AM »

RazzelnoDazzel

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I remember early In the season we were getting torched by shooting guards, and when Smart was inserted in the starting lineup that helped a lot.

Maybe Brown has gotten a lot better defensively since the beginning of the season (he was also fighting injuries to start the season), but we have also only faced Wes Matthews and Sterling Brown as starting shooting guards in the playoffs.  Jaylen could have been matched up with Middleton more (maybe someone savvy with advanced metrics can show the breakdown of how often Brown guarded Middleton).

Maybe if we were facing a shooting guard like Bradley Beal we would want Smart back in with the starters.


Yea we just haven’t been up against elite guards is all because we will still be getting torched. We played excellent D but brown was still blowing assignments trust me. Brown makes it seem like he can’t keep a man in front of him for whatever reason, but endless to say I still think smart would be better suited starting although Brown has kicked it up on O tremendously, but I feel like we can get that same contribution out of brown off the bench.

Re: Smart vs. Brogdon
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2019, 09:18:40 AM »

Offline MichiganAdam

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Smart will have to ease into his minutes anyhow, so I see him getting mostly TR minutes to start, and then work up to 30 plus as the playoffs continue  It would not be the end of the world to end up with 7 players with 30-35 minutes rather than some up near 40 minutes.  Can certainly have everyone just a little fresher  if he can come back and play his normal role as well or better than he has.  Add in 20 minutes for baynes/theis and that is all of the minutes.  8 deep with the quality of players those 8 are would be just fine with me.

Re: Smart vs. Brogdon
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2019, 09:29:17 AM »

Offline footey

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I would not bring Smart back in the middle of a series if it continues to go well.

I agree.

Re: Smart vs. Brogdon
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2019, 09:42:19 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I remember early In the season we were getting torched by shooting guards, and when Smart was inserted in the starting lineup that helped a lot.

Maybe Brown has gotten a lot better defensively since the beginning of the season (he was also fighting injuries to start the season), but we have also only faced Wes Matthews and Sterling Brown as starting shooting guards in the playoffs.  Jaylen could have been matched up with Middleton more (maybe someone savvy with advanced metrics can show the breakdown of how often Brown guarded Middleton).

Maybe if we were facing a shooting guard like Bradley Beal we would want Smart back in with the starters.


Yea we just haven’t been up against elite guards is all because we will still be getting torched. We played excellent D but brown was still blowing assignments trust me. Brown makes it seem like he can’t keep a man in front of him for whatever reason, but endless to say I still think smart would be better suited starting although Brown has kicked it up on O tremendously, but I feel like we can get that same contribution out of brown off the bench.
Brown was matched up almost exclusively with Middleton yesterday and was the main defender on Bogdanovic. Brown's defense was one of the main reasons Bogdanovic was held to 39% shooting, 32% from three. Bogdanovic shot 50%/42% in the regular season.

Yesterday when in the game, Brown was on Middleton. Brown was playing Middleton super tight denying him touches. Middleton hit two ridiculously contested threes over Brown but other than that, Middleton was a major non-factor in the game due to Brown's great defense.

Your observations of Brown getting lit up by inferior SGs and getting torched, not being able to keep guys in front of him, missing assignments, in this post season, are simply not based on what is actually happening on the court.

Re: Smart vs. Brogdon
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2019, 10:23:26 AM »

RazzelnoDazzel

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I remember early In the season we were getting torched by shooting guards, and when Smart was inserted in the starting lineup that helped a lot.

Maybe Brown has gotten a lot better defensively since the beginning of the season (he was also fighting injuries to start the season), but we have also only faced Wes Matthews and Sterling Brown as starting shooting guards in the playoffs.  Jaylen could have been matched up with Middleton more (maybe someone savvy with advanced metrics can show the breakdown of how often Brown guarded Middleton).

Maybe if we were facing a shooting guard like Bradley Beal we would want Smart back in with the starters.


Yea we just haven’t been up against elite guards is all because we will still be getting torched. We played excellent D but brown was still blowing assignments trust me. Brown makes it seem like he can’t keep a man in front of him for whatever reason, but endless to say I still think smart would be better suited starting although Brown has kicked it up on O tremendously, but I feel like we can get that same contribution out of brown off the bench.
Brown was matched up almost exclusively with Middleton yesterday and was the main defender on Bogdanovic. Brown's defense was one of the main reasons Bogdanovic was held to 39% shooting, 32% from three. Bogdanovic shot 50%/42% in the regular season.

Yesterday when in the game, Brown was on Middleton. Brown was playing Middleton super tight denying him touches. Middleton hit two ridiculously contested threes over Brown but other than that, Middleton was a major non-factor in the game due to Brown's great defense.

Your observations of Brown getting lit up by inferior SGs and getting torched, not being able to keep guys in front of him, missing assignments, in this post season, are simply not based on what is actually happening on the court.

My observation is correct he does miss assignments and does get blown by agianst many people even those who aren’t guards. When brown matched up against Gannis (although in this position he wasn’t supposed to but he missed a Rotation) he got destroyed.

The few times he was on Middleton, middleton scores. With Morris and Brown in the court at the same time there will be a ton of blown assignments. Tatum was on Middleton.

Re: Smart vs. Brogdon
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2019, 10:32:21 AM »

RazzelnoDazzel

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I remember early In the season we were getting torched by shooting guards, and when Smart was inserted in the starting lineup that helped a lot.

Maybe Brown has gotten a lot better defensively since the beginning of the season (he was also fighting injuries to start the season), but we have also only faced Wes Matthews and Sterling Brown as starting shooting guards in the playoffs.  Jaylen could have been matched up with Middleton more (maybe someone savvy with advanced metrics can show the breakdown of how often Brown guarded Middleton).

Maybe if we were facing a shooting guard like Bradley Beal we would want Smart back in with the starters.


Yea we just haven’t been up against elite guards is all because we will still be getting torched. We played excellent D but brown was still blowing assignments trust me. Brown makes it seem like he can’t keep a man in front of him for whatever reason, but endless to say I still think smart would be better suited starting although Brown has kicked it up on O tremendously, but I feel like we can get that same contribution out of brown off the bench.
Brown was matched up almost exclusively with Middleton yesterday and was the main defender on Bogdanovic. Brown's defense was one of the main reasons Bogdanovic was held to 39% shooting, 32% from three. Bogdanovic shot 50%/42% in the regular season.

Yesterday when in the game, Brown was on Middleton. Brown was playing Middleton super tight denying him touches. Middleton hit two ridiculously contested threes over Brown but other than that, Middleton was a major non-factor in the game due to Brown's great defense.

Your observations of Brown getting lit up by inferior SGs and getting torched, not being able to keep guys in front of him, missing assignments, in this post season, are simply not based on what is actually happening on the court.

My observation is correct he does miss assignments and does get blown by agianst many people even those who aren’t guards. When brown matched up against Gannis (although in this position he wasn’t supposed to but he missed a Rotation) he got destroyed.

The few times he was on Middleton, middleton scores. With Morris and Brown in the court at the same time there will be a ton of blown assignments. Tatum was on Middleton.

Closer observation, they both guarded Middleton. Looking at this you will see who Middleton was able to score on. If you really look you will catch a few blown assignments by brown. https://youtu.be/zblXM2Qhw1U

Re: Smart vs. Brogdon
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2019, 12:00:17 PM »

Offline footey

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Brown did a much better job yesterday on Middleton than last year playoffs.  Probably combination of Brown's defensive improvement/maturity, and Middleton not being so in the zone as he seemingly was vs. us last year. Only one game, but was encouraging to see.

Re: Smart vs. Brogdon
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2019, 12:36:32 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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This is a fine question but the unfortunate part is that we may have to deal with Brogdon coming back while Smart does not.

Re: Smart vs. Brogdon
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2019, 02:09:03 PM »

Online johnnygreen

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If you need Malcolm Brogdon to win a series, then the opposing team is just better.

Re: Smart vs. Brogdon
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2019, 09:23:39 PM »

RazzelnoDazzel

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Middleton with 20 in 1st half with Brown in him.

Re: Smart vs. Brogdon
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2019, 07:38:19 AM »

Offline hodgy03038

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So much for the Celts being better without Smart. Do you think maybe he could have helped defensively against Middleton and/or Bledsoe last night?

Re: Smart vs. Brogdon
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2019, 08:32:24 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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im a turrible talent scout usually ,  but I nailed DA picking Tatum and my only other choice was Brogdon , cause i watch alot of ACC .

i was for taking Randle above Smart , but I now like Smart better.