Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.

[playdream]

Pans out just like i thought, Baynes alone on Embiid is more than enough and Simmons has too many flows, in my eyes they are far from so called generational talent/future superstars

If i'm their GM i go all in(throw Simmons if must) on Kawhi and try to sign Lebron, then push hard for 3~4 years , hope to snab 1~2 rings and call it a success

[Big333223]

Pans out just like i thought, Baynes alone on Embiid is more than enough and Simmons has too many flows, in my eyes they are far from so called generational talent/future superstars

If i'm their GM i go all in(throw Simmons if must) on Kawhi and try to sign Lebron, then push hard for 3~4 years , hope to snab 1~2 rings and call it a success

Wow. 16-8-8 and advancing to the second round as a rookie not good enough. Dang.

[celticsclay]

Pans out just like i thought, Baynes alone on Embiid is more than enough and Simmons has too many flows, in my eyes they are far from so called generational talent/future superstars

If i'm their GM i go all in(throw Simmons if must) on Kawhi and try to sign Lebron, then push hard for 3~4 years , hope to snab 1~2 rings and call it a success

Wow. 16-8-8 and advancing to the second round as a rookie not good enough. Dang.

Whenever we throw out his counting stats, I want to hear people's thoughts on this.

[Moranis]

Pans out just like i thought, Baynes alone on Embiid is more than enough and Simmons has too many flows, in my eyes they are far from so called generational talent/future superstars

If i'm their GM i go all in(throw Simmons if must) on Kawhi and try to sign Lebron, then push hard for 3~4 years , hope to snab 1~2 rings and call it a success

Wow. 16-8-8 and advancing to the second round as a rookie not good enough. Dang.

Whenever we throw out his counting stats, I want to hear people's thoughts on this.

Rudy Gobert was -62 against the Rockets while the Jazz were only outscored by 50 in the series (so the Jazz were +12 while Gobert was on the bench).  Obviously not quite the discrepancy but used to show those aren't exactly the most effective ways to determine things.  A couple of bad runs can significantly skew those numbers in a short amount of games, but they generally even out over the course of a season.  Baynes was -40, Smart was just plus 1 (the C's were +14 when he was on the bench).  Brown was just +7 (C's were +8 when he was on the bench). 

[TomHeinsohn]

Simmons is just flat out not very skilled. He throws up a lot of awkward looking shots near the rim that have little to no chance of going in. A lot of his rebounds are uncontested. If Kyrie is at one end of the "inexplicably uncanny instinctual ability to throw the ball up with just the perfect spin and parabolic amplitude to make it through the hoop", Simmons is undoubtedly on the other end.

[GratefulCs]

Pans out just like i thought, Baynes alone on Embiid is more than enough and Simmons has too many flows, in my eyes they are far from so called generational talent/future superstars

If i'm their GM i go all in(throw Simmons if must) on Kawhi and try to sign Lebron, then push hard for 3~4 years , hope to snab 1~2 rings and call it a success

Wow. 16-8-8 and advancing to the second round as a rookie not good enough. Dang.

Whenever we throw out his counting stats, I want to hear people's thoughts on this.

Rudy Gobert was -62 against the Rockets while the Jazz were only outscored by 50 in the series (so the Jazz were +12 while Gobert was on the bench).  Obviously not quite the discrepancy but used to show those aren't exactly the most effective ways to determine things.  A couple of bad runs can significantly skew those numbers in a short amount of games, but they generally even out over the course of a season.  Baynes was -40, Smart was just plus 1 (the C's were +14 when he was on the bench).  Brown was just +7 (C's were +8 when he was on the bench).

i like the mention of gobert

great player


ALSO can't shoot

hmmm

[celticsclay]

Pans out just like i thought, Baynes alone on Embiid is more than enough and Simmons has too many flows, in my eyes they are far from so called generational talent/future superstars

If i'm their GM i go all in(throw Simmons if must) on Kawhi and try to sign Lebron, then push hard for 3~4 years , hope to snab 1~2 rings and call it a success

Wow. 16-8-8 and advancing to the second round as a rookie not good enough. Dang.

Whenever we throw out his counting stats, I want to hear people's thoughts on this.

Rudy Gobert was -62 against the Rockets while the Jazz were only outscored by 50 in the series (so the Jazz were +12 while Gobert was on the bench).  Obviously not quite the discrepancy but used to show those aren't exactly the most effective ways to determine things.  A couple of bad runs can significantly skew those numbers in a short amount of games, but they generally even out over the course of a season.  Baynes was -40, Smart was just plus 1 (the C's were +14 when he was on the bench).  Brown was just +7 (C's were +8 when he was on the bench).

i like the mention of gobert

great player


ALSO can't shoot

hmmm

Yea, just shows at a minimum Gobert was not a good matchup against the Rockets. We can argue that Simmons may just be a bad matchup against the Celtics, but I do think they also showed a blueprint on how to defend him that other teams will copy.

[playdream]

Pans out just like i thought, Baynes alone on Embiid is more than enough and Simmons has too many flows, in my eyes they are far from so called generational talent/future superstars

If i'm their GM i go all in(throw Simmons if must) on Kawhi and try to sign Lebron, then push hard for 3~4 years , hope to snab 1~2 rings and call it a success

Wow. 16-8-8 and advancing to the second round as a rookie not good enough. Dang.

Whenever we throw out his counting stats, I want to hear people's thoughts on this.

Rudy Gobert was -62 against the Rockets while the Jazz were only outscored by 50 in the series (so the Jazz were +12 while Gobert was on the bench).  Obviously not quite the discrepancy but used to show those aren't exactly the most effective ways to determine things.  A couple of bad runs can significantly skew those numbers in a short amount of games, but they generally even out over the course of a season.  Baynes was -40, Smart was just plus 1 (the C's were +14 when he was on the bench).  Brown was just +7 (C's were +8 when he was on the bench).

i like the mention of gobert

great player


ALSO can't shoot

hmmm

Well if you watched Gobert is clearly a liability on their team, can't defend perimeter and can't attack mismatchs.
Those numbers sounds correct

[Granath]

Those who are arguing against the Sixers 'strategy' aren't saying that it hasn't produced quality players and a team full of potential (you get enough top 5 picks you are bound to hit on some of them); they are simply making a point about how it was a dirty way to go about business. They lost other teams money and made a mockery of the lottery system which was already set in place to prevent blatant tanking.

It is about common decency and playing by the unspoken rules of basketball. Since this series began, a number of people in my life who aren't too familiar with the NBA have asked me about what exactly the 'process' is. When I explain it to them, they are immediately turned off and each of them have used the word, 'cheaters.'

The Sixers weren't innovative, they were just basically scoundrels. The best thing they did was make the trades for the LAL pick and SAC pick - those were actual sound NBA decisions. They don't deserve Lebron or Kawhi or whatever star falls in their lap. May the basketball gods come down hard on the Sixers for years to come...

Tp....great post...my sentiments exactly.....hopefully karma is that female dog for philly!

To underscore other teams getting hurt by it, I want to relay my Garden experiences for Philly games during that time.

First, it was great for me (and my family). As a father of four who were all at home at the time, my wife and I were able to take the kids to the Philly games without breaking the bank. A few times I was able to secure 6 tix from Stubhub for under $100, not great seats in the balcony admittedly, but because the place was never packed, we could always move down.

Crowds were definitely smaller and younger for Cs/Philly games at the time. Consequently vendors got hurt both inside and outside the Garden regarding both sales and tips.

Other, smaller franchises who don’t have the following that our Cs have got hurt as they didn’t sell out when Philly came to town, in addition to their vendors getting hurt.

Yeah, Philly played by the “rules”, but many resent(ed) them for it, And in my opinion rightfully so.

But if the Sixers were a 25 to 30 win team instead of a 10 to 20 win team, the arenas still would have been empty, and they would still be empty when the Sixers come to town now instead of the big draw they are.  That is where that argument loses steam.  I mean it isn't like Philly chose to be a dreg instead of a title contender, they chose to be a dreg instead of a tier slightly above dreg (think the Kings over the last decade).  There was going to be almost no difference in the overall quality of the product from a drawing on the road standpoint.  There is however now that they have landed real and quality stars.

I know you have said the same thing repeatedly about 100 times in this thread but you've still failed to address the point, which is very simple:

How does doing the obvious and easy make Hinkie a genius?

It's not like Hinkie created tanking. Dump for Duncan, Lose for Lebron, Offend for Olajuwon...this has been around for decades. Sammy just decided to throw in the towel and pull a Donald Sterling for a few years until he got Lucky in the Lottery. This doesn't take brains since this is the most obvious and easy strategy to try to get new talent. Meanwhile, it's cost his owner millions in revenue in lost merchandise sales, their team valuation dropped to 21 from being in the top 10 and they've been jokes of the NBA for half of a decade now.

If Hinkie was a genius, he would have found a great young coach like Stevens who raises everyone's level. He'd have found hidden gems like Isaiah Thomas at bargain prices. He'd have held on to assets and flipped them at the optimal time. He didn't do any of this. He lost, repeatedly, until he got lucky in the lottery and still couldn't keep his job. Meanwhile the team has won one playoff series. Big whoop.

Yes, the franchise was moribund the decade before (and the half decade after) he took over. That happens when you have bad GMing (Billy King, Ed Stefnaski) and coaches who prefer veterans. That doesn't excuse or improve Hinkie's plan.

Hinkie's big plan was to lose and pray. That's not a well thought out plan. That would be the BACKUP to an actual plan.

[Moranis]

Those who are arguing against the Sixers 'strategy' aren't saying that it hasn't produced quality players and a team full of potential (you get enough top 5 picks you are bound to hit on some of them); they are simply making a point about how it was a dirty way to go about business. They lost other teams money and made a mockery of the lottery system which was already set in place to prevent blatant tanking.

It is about common decency and playing by the unspoken rules of basketball. Since this series began, a number of people in my life who aren't too familiar with the NBA have asked me about what exactly the 'process' is. When I explain it to them, they are immediately turned off and each of them have used the word, 'cheaters.'

The Sixers weren't innovative, they were just basically scoundrels. The best thing they did was make the trades for the LAL pick and SAC pick - those were actual sound NBA decisions. They don't deserve Lebron or Kawhi or whatever star falls in their lap. May the basketball gods come down hard on the Sixers for years to come...

Tp....great post...my sentiments exactly.....hopefully karma is that female dog for philly!

To underscore other teams getting hurt by it, I want to relay my Garden experiences for Philly games during that time.

First, it was great for me (and my family). As a father of four who were all at home at the time, my wife and I were able to take the kids to the Philly games without breaking the bank. A few times I was able to secure 6 tix from Stubhub for under $100, not great seats in the balcony admittedly, but because the place was never packed, we could always move down.

Crowds were definitely smaller and younger for Cs/Philly games at the time. Consequently vendors got hurt both inside and outside the Garden regarding both sales and tips.

Other, smaller franchises who don’t have the following that our Cs have got hurt as they didn’t sell out when Philly came to town, in addition to their vendors getting hurt.

Yeah, Philly played by the “rules”, but many resent(ed) them for it, And in my opinion rightfully so.

But if the Sixers were a 25 to 30 win team instead of a 10 to 20 win team, the arenas still would have been empty, and they would still be empty when the Sixers come to town now instead of the big draw they are.  That is where that argument loses steam.  I mean it isn't like Philly chose to be a dreg instead of a title contender, they chose to be a dreg instead of a tier slightly above dreg (think the Kings over the last decade).  There was going to be almost no difference in the overall quality of the product from a drawing on the road standpoint.  There is however now that they have landed real and quality stars.

I know you have said the same thing repeatedly about 100 times in this thread but you've still failed to address the point, which is very simple:

How does doing the obvious and easy make Hinkie a genius?

It's not like Hinkie created tanking. Dump for Duncan, Lose for Lebron, Offend for Olajuwon...this has been around for decades. Sammy just decided to throw in the towel and pull a Donald Sterling for a few years until he got Lucky in the Lottery. This doesn't take brains since this is the most obvious and easy strategy to try to get new talent. Meanwhile, it's cost his owner millions in revenue in lost merchandise sales, their team valuation dropped to 21 from being in the top 10 and they've been jokes of the NBA for half of a decade now.

If Hinkie was a genius, he would have found a great young coach like Stevens who raises everyone's level. He'd have found hidden gems like Isaiah Thomas at bargain prices. He'd have held on to assets and flipped them at the optimal time. He didn't do any of this. He lost, repeatedly, until he got lucky in the lottery and still couldn't keep his job. Meanwhile the team has won one playoff series. Big whoop.

Yes, the franchise was moribund the decade before (and the half decade after) he took over. That happens when you have bad GMing (Billy King, Ed Stefnaski) and coaches who prefer veterans. That doesn't excuse or improve Hinkie's plan.

Hinkie's big plan was to lose and pray. That's not a well thought out plan. That would be the BACKUP to an actual plan.

except he did find gems. Covington, McConnell, Grant, Holmes, Smith, etc. all undrafted, 2nd round gems, or castaways from other teams.  He got the Lakers pick and Sacramento pick in brilliant trades. He manufactured numerous trades where he got 2nd round picks for absolutely nothing. Bret Brown may not be Stevens but he is a very good coach that instilled a great system in Philly.  This idea that what Hinkie did was easy and luck just isn't based in reality.  He made a lot of brilliant moves and found plenty of gems off the scrap heap.

[Bucketgetter]

Those who are arguing against the Sixers 'strategy' aren't saying that it hasn't produced quality players and a team full of potential (you get enough top 5 picks you are bound to hit on some of them); they are simply making a point about how it was a dirty way to go about business. They lost other teams money and made a mockery of the lottery system which was already set in place to prevent blatant tanking.

It is about common decency and playing by the unspoken rules of basketball. Since this series began, a number of people in my life who aren't too familiar with the NBA have asked me about what exactly the 'process' is. When I explain it to them, they are immediately turned off and each of them have used the word, 'cheaters.'

The Sixers weren't innovative, they were just basically scoundrels. The best thing they did was make the trades for the LAL pick and SAC pick - those were actual sound NBA decisions. They don't deserve Lebron or Kawhi or whatever star falls in their lap. May the basketball gods come down hard on the Sixers for years to come...

Tp....great post...my sentiments exactly.....hopefully karma is that female dog for philly!

To underscore other teams getting hurt by it, I want to relay my Garden experiences for Philly games during that time.

First, it was great for me (and my family). As a father of four who were all at home at the time, my wife and I were able to take the kids to the Philly games without breaking the bank. A few times I was able to secure 6 tix from Stubhub for under $100, not great seats in the balcony admittedly, but because the place was never packed, we could always move down.

Crowds were definitely smaller and younger for Cs/Philly games at the time. Consequently vendors got hurt both inside and outside the Garden regarding both sales and tips.

Other, smaller franchises who don’t have the following that our Cs have got hurt as they didn’t sell out when Philly came to town, in addition to their vendors getting hurt.

Yeah, Philly played by the “rules”, but many resent(ed) them for it, And in my opinion rightfully so.

But if the Sixers were a 25 to 30 win team instead of a 10 to 20 win team, the arenas still would have been empty, and they would still be empty when the Sixers come to town now instead of the big draw they are.  That is where that argument loses steam.  I mean it isn't like Philly chose to be a dreg instead of a title contender, they chose to be a dreg instead of a tier slightly above dreg (think the Kings over the last decade).  There was going to be almost no difference in the overall quality of the product from a drawing on the road standpoint.  There is however now that they have landed real and quality stars.

I know you have said the same thing repeatedly about 100 times in this thread but you've still failed to address the point, which is very simple:

How does doing the obvious and easy make Hinkie a genius?

It's not like Hinkie created tanking. Dump for Duncan, Lose for Lebron, Offend for Olajuwon...this has been around for decades. Sammy just decided to throw in the towel and pull a Donald Sterling for a few years until he got Lucky in the Lottery. This doesn't take brains since this is the most obvious and easy strategy to try to get new talent. Meanwhile, it's cost his owner millions in revenue in lost merchandise sales, their team valuation dropped to 21 from being in the top 10 and they've been jokes of the NBA for half of a decade now.

If Hinkie was a genius, he would have found a great young coach like Stevens who raises everyone's level. He'd have found hidden gems like Isaiah Thomas at bargain prices. He'd have held on to assets and flipped them at the optimal time. He didn't do any of this. He lost, repeatedly, until he got lucky in the lottery and still couldn't keep his job. Meanwhile the team has won one playoff series. Big whoop.

Yes, the franchise was moribund the decade before (and the half decade after) he took over. That happens when you have bad GMing (Billy King, Ed Stefnaski) and coaches who prefer veterans. That doesn't excuse or improve Hinkie's plan.

Hinkie's big plan was to lose and pray. That's not a well thought out plan. That would be the BACKUP to an actual plan.

I think that's the best I've heard someone articulate that argument besides me lol, TP. It's obvious which GM in the league right now would be considered a "genius" or "100% right now". It's Danny Ainge. He tanked for half a year, and then we were back in the playoffs. He turned aging veterans into blue chip prospects, and bargain players into valuable assets. We went from old playoff team that was getting worse fast, to going to back to back ECF with the brightest future in the league within 5 years, even with a ridiculous amount of injuries (Rondo, IT, Hayward, Kyrie) . It sucks that "Celtics" fans can't appreciate that.

And Hinkie is so clearly NOT "100% right now". That was the whole premise of his plan. That he would tank so hard that he would have multiple shots at stars. Okafor and Noel were MASSIVE misses. I do give him credit for committing to one plan, a lot of GMs are too scared to do so. I think this gave Philly the best shot to win at the time if you don't have a GM like Danny who can turn water into wine.

But for "Celtics" fans to kneel before him like he is God, when we have Danny mother f ing Ainge, is mind boggling.