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Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: fairweatherfan on February 08, 2018, 01:14:47 PM

Title: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: fairweatherfan on February 08, 2018, 01:14:47 PM
I'm not sure if this is comprehensive but so far in the last HOUR the Cavs have sent out:

IT
Frye
Crowder
Rose
Wade
Shumpert
2018 1st
2020 2nd rounder

for

Clarkson
Nance Jr
George Hill
Hood
a protected 2nd (for Wade lol)


Never seen this fast of a trade deadline blowup.  Wow. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Fireworks_Boom! on February 08, 2018, 01:16:17 PM
Lebron gets my vote for GM of the year!
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: hodgy03038 on February 08, 2018, 01:16:38 PM
Wade just traded back to Miami
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: RJ87 on February 08, 2018, 01:16:45 PM
Give them credit. It wasn't working so they took a sledgehammer to it.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: fairweatherfan on February 08, 2018, 01:17:11 PM
Wade just traded back to Miami

Yeah that's on there. For basically nothing. I don't think he liked the city of Cleveland very much.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: konkmv on February 08, 2018, 01:17:46 PM
Never seen anything like that...
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: CELTICSofBOSTON on February 08, 2018, 01:18:16 PM
They definitely got better.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: BringToughnessBack on February 08, 2018, 01:18:50 PM
GM has done well. He had to take a chance and go for it while Lebron is there. I think they are better by a lot-time will tell. Lebron needed better parts and someone else who could score. It looks like he got a few of those in this Cavsmageddon day. TP for the name
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: saltlover on February 08, 2018, 01:19:03 PM
Go big or go home!
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: manl_lui on February 08, 2018, 01:19:20 PM
mass exodus
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: konkmv on February 08, 2018, 01:19:25 PM
.... hope they will not get a rim protector... hill Clarkson LeBron and love are solid..
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: fairweatherfan on February 08, 2018, 01:19:43 PM
Breaking: ....I've just been traded to Fear the Sword.  SO LONG SUCKERS!!
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Fireworks_Boom! on February 08, 2018, 01:19:50 PM
I think this strongly impacts their ability to compete this year. Too quick of a turnaround to put it together.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Birdman on February 08, 2018, 01:20:06 PM
LeBron can't blame ownership now!!
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Bucketgetter on February 08, 2018, 01:20:07 PM
It will be a better fit, but they got a terrible return. Shows you how badly the Cavs have been playing lately and the value of their players.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: SparzWizard on February 08, 2018, 01:20:11 PM
LeBron James wasn't kidding when he said he will literally trade everyone when they do not impress him.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on February 08, 2018, 01:20:55 PM
No idea who's pushing the buttons there, but they've largely done well both short- and long-term.  Did not see anything remotely close to this overhaulageddon coming.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: manl_lui on February 08, 2018, 01:20:59 PM
LeBron James wasn't kidding when he said he will literally trade everyone when they do not impress him.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

surprised his good buddy wade is shipped out too
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: saltlover on February 08, 2018, 01:21:25 PM
One of Love or Thompson has to be gone by the end of the deadline too, I think.  Just blow it all up!
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticinorlando on February 08, 2018, 01:21:51 PM
Cavs going to have anyone on Sunday vs the C's?? That team will have no chemisty..


Don't see how the Cavs get out of the East
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Who on February 08, 2018, 01:22:01 PM
Ooh, I like George Hill and Rodney Hood next to LeBron. Those are good pickups.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: trickybilly on February 08, 2018, 01:22:06 PM
C'mon Cleveland, I dare you to trade LeBron to San Antonio for Kawhi.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 08, 2018, 01:23:25 PM
Some of these trades help the cavs a little. However, who is the Cavs 3rd best player right now? George Hill? That is a far cry from their big 3 the last year and Love is pretty clearly their second best player and only all-star level talent behind Lebron. They are kind of like last years Thunder now.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: hodgy03038 on February 08, 2018, 01:25:03 PM
I actually think Cleveland got better with these trades. I am worried.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticinorlando on February 08, 2018, 01:25:55 PM
Cavs just got younger to soften the blow when James leaves.

I do not see how they can put together a brand new team in a few weeks.

Boston adds Monroe and Hayward (yes...I do think he is coming back)...the Cavs aren't getting by them nor the Raps
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Birdman on February 08, 2018, 01:26:24 PM
Sorry folks but Cavs are #1 in east now
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticinorlando on February 08, 2018, 01:26:57 PM
Sorry folks but Cavs are #1 in east now

You can't be serious?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Who on February 08, 2018, 01:27:13 PM
PG: George Hill, Jordan Clarkson
SG: Rodney Hood, JR Smith
SF: LeBron James,
PF: Kevin Love, Larry Nance
 C: Tristan Thompson,

Deep bench: Richard Jefferson, Jeff Green (forgot him), Kyle Korver, Ante Zizic, Jose Calderon

That is a good 8 man rotation. A three man bench with a lead guard, a wing and a big man. Some spot minutes available for the other guys.

That can work. That can put Cleveland back in the mix with the Celtics and Raptors.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: blink on February 08, 2018, 01:27:45 PM
Some of these trades help the cavs a little. However, who is the Cavs 3rd best player right now? George Hill? That is a far cry from their big 3 the last year and Love is pretty clearly their second best player and only all-star level talent behind Lebron. They are kind of like last years Thunder now.

Yeah I agree with your take on it.  Although I like Hill and even Clarkson a bit, those guys aren't all star players that help you win NBA titles.  No matter how Cleveland shuffles the deck chairs they are still missing Kyrie Irving at crunch time.  I take Kyrie over all those guys put together.  If the Cavs make it to the finals this year it is going to be on the back of Lebron and Love.  Those two are going to have to literally take over every game. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 08, 2018, 01:28:07 PM
No idea who's pushing the buttons there, but they've largely done well both short- and long-term.  Did not see anything remotely close to this overhaulageddon coming.

The Lakers trade is definitely a bad trade. They took on long term contract (nobody wanted Clarkson all season) and gave up a first round pick. They also opened up the chance for the Lakers to get their best player this offseason (George and Lebron now possible there). That is pretty objectively awful all for Nance (they could have just bought out IT). Cavs fans were livid with that trade.

The Hood, Hill trade is definitely a good trade.

I haven't been as high on Wade as most, but given he is Lebron's best friend and could provide some bench scoring in playoffs, that seems bad for a second round pick to dump.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: jpotter33 on February 08, 2018, 01:29:45 PM
I actually think Cleveland got better with these trades. I am worried.

So, let me get this straight. Many around the NBA were concerned that we only had four returning players this year and would struggle most of the year to develop chemistry, yet the Cavs did a nearly as exhaustive shuffling of their roster over halfway into the season with guys with little to no playoffs experience, yet somehow this same logic doesn’t apply to them? Lol

Not talking about you in particular. I just find it funny that the narrative changes on analyses based upon the team. Lol
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: blink on February 08, 2018, 01:30:03 PM
Sorry folks but Cavs are #1 in east now

You can't be serious?

Yeah that is an over-reaction.  Love isn't back for a long time, and they will be figuring out their roster / rotations for a good 10-15 games before Lue can figure it out.  They are 7 games back right now.  It would take a huge fall off the cliff by Boston and Toronto for that to happen.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 08, 2018, 01:30:11 PM
Sorry folks but Cavs are #1 in east now

You can't be serious?

Yea.. who scares you? Clarkson? Hill? Hood? That is a bunch of fringe starters/good bench players.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: action781 on February 08, 2018, 01:30:32 PM
I think Cavs certainly got better.  Rose and IT were complete negatives, George Hill is a positive.  Larry Nance is a fantastic bench player and can thrive in situations where teams focus their defensive attention on to other players.  Rodney Hood can also be a positive.

I wonder if people didn't play well before because they weren't given enough playing time.  This consolidation of minutes I think will benefit their currently rostered players and as they will have well defined roles that they all have shown in the past they can thrive in.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: blink on February 08, 2018, 01:31:08 PM
I actually think Cleveland got better with these trades. I am worried.

So, let me get this straight. Many around the NBA were concerned that we only had four returning players this year and would struggle most of the year to develop chemistry, yet the Cavs did a nearly as exhaustive shuffling of their roster over halfway into the season with guys with little to no playoffs experience, yet somehow this same logic doesn’t apply to them? Lol

Not talking about you in particular. I just find it funny that the narrative changes on analyses based upon the team. Lol

Tyrone Lue with 2 months to figure it out on the fly - vs - Brad Stevens having all offseason....yeah I think that is the difference.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Donoghus on February 08, 2018, 01:31:22 PM
Gonna start looking at vacation time back in Boston/Cape Cod for mid-June.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: RJ87 on February 08, 2018, 01:31:46 PM
PG: George Hill, Jordan Clarkson
SG: Rodney Hood, JR Smith
SF: LeBron James,
PF: Kevin Love, Larry Nance
 C: Tristan Thompson,

Deep bench: Richard Jefferson, Kyle Korver, Ante Zizic, Jose Calderon

That is a good 8 man rotation. A three man bench with a lead guard, a wing and a big man. Some spot minutes available for the other guys.

That can work. That can put Cleveland back in the mix with the Celtics and Raptors.

Jefferson's still in Denver, no?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: kozlodoev on February 08, 2018, 01:31:52 PM
PG: George Hill, Jordan Clarkson
SG: Rodney Hood, JR Smith
SF: LeBron James,
PF: Kevin Love, Larry Nance
 C: Tristan Thompson,

Deep bench: Richard Jefferson, Kyle Korver, Ante Zizic, Jose Calderon

That is a good 8 man rotation. A three man bench with a lead guard, a wing and a big man. Some spot minutes available for the other guys.

That can work. That can put Cleveland back in the mix with the Celtics and Raptors.
Love is out until March, and Rodney Hood is someone who does nothing but score. He was good for 12 points off the bench while Utah still had Hayward, how you think he's going to work next to LeBron? Oh, and he just missed close to half a month with a knee injury.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: hodgy03038 on February 08, 2018, 01:32:23 PM
I actually think Cleveland got better with these trades. I am worried.

So, let me get this straight. Many around the NBA were concerned that we only had four returning players this year and would struggle most of the year to develop chemistry, yet the Cavs did a nearly as exhaustive shuffling of their roster over halfway into the season with guys with little to no playoffs experience, yet somehow this same logic doesn’t apply to them? Lol

Not talking about you in particular. I just find it funny that the narrative changes on analyses based upon the team. Lol

The problem is we don't have LeBron - Cleveland does. They apparently got rid of most of their cancer: IT, Jae, Rose & Wade for younger, more athletic parts to go with LeBron. Let's face it- LeBron can take over a game or a series by himself in the East. Maybe it's not enough for the West but I am worried. That's all.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticinorlando on February 08, 2018, 01:33:14 PM
I think Boston just waits until buyouts start...
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: moiso on February 08, 2018, 01:35:01 PM
I think the Cavs will be much better mainly because these guys don't hate each other.  I think on paper the Cavs would have been much better if they didn't make any moves and waited for IT to get his legs.  I definitely think the team had more star talent before the trades, but it was never going to work out so they did the right thing.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Who on February 08, 2018, 01:35:11 PM
Getting rid of those negatives is huge for Cleveland. Those guys were hurting the Cavs badly. They were taking Cleveland out of the playoffs. Just getting rid of them and replacing them with some able-bodied players puts Cleveland back in the picture.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: knuckleballer on February 08, 2018, 01:35:43 PM
My main interest in all of this is what it does for the Lakers for the remainder of the season.  I so hope they fall to the fifth pick in next year's draft.  That means I have to continue to root against IT which sucks. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: PhoSita on February 08, 2018, 01:35:44 PM
It's rather startling when you compare the Cavs roster that made the Finals last year -- and got shelled -- to their roster now. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Who on February 08, 2018, 01:35:47 PM
PG: George Hill, Jordan Clarkson
SG: Rodney Hood, JR Smith
SF: LeBron James,
PF: Kevin Love, Larry Nance
 C: Tristan Thompson,

Deep bench: Richard Jefferson, Kyle Korver, Ante Zizic, Jose Calderon

That is a good 8 man rotation. A three man bench with a lead guard, a wing and a big man. Some spot minutes available for the other guys.

That can work. That can put Cleveland back in the mix with the Celtics and Raptors.

Jefferson's still in Denver, no?

So he is. I thought he was still hanging around the end of the bench in Cleveland.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: knuckleballer on February 08, 2018, 01:38:10 PM
I don't see how ball and IT can coexist.  Lose, Lakers, lose!
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: blink on February 08, 2018, 01:38:10 PM
It's rather startling when you compare the Cavs roster that made the Finals last year -- and got shelled -- to their roster now.

I assume you are saying that last year's Cavs roster was better right?
Lebron, Kyrie, Love >>> Lebron, Love + all the new traded guys.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: wiley on February 08, 2018, 01:38:11 PM
Jeff having-a-good-season Green is still in Cleveland.

They definitely improved and will be tough out.  Healthy love required...
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 08, 2018, 01:39:54 PM
Cavs on paper are a lot better, but on paper and in practice are two very different things.  I do think there is a lot of addition by subtraction for the Cavs.

I think this is a pretty solid overall team for Cleveland

PG - Hill, Clarkson, Calderon
SG - Hood, Smith
SF - James, Korver, Osman
PF - Love, Nance, Green
C - Thompson, Zizic

Plus they have 2 open roster spots for the buy out market and they kept the BKN pick.


The word here in Cleveland is Wade is going to retire and wanted to do so on the Heat.  The general thought is Wade will play 1 game in Miami for the fans and then call it quits (though he may end up playing out the season).
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticinorlando on February 08, 2018, 01:40:04 PM
Don't see how these moves get Cleveland closer to a title of any kind
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: blink on February 08, 2018, 01:40:25 PM
Jeff having-a-good-season Green is still in Cleveland.

They definitely improved and will be tough out.  Healthy love required...

I wouldn't mind the 2018 Jeff Green as a back up for the C's.  He has played pretty well for Cleveland and playing within himself while quietly putting up 10 points a game.  That is something we could use on our bench.  I mean if the Cavs are blowing up the roster might as well get rid of Green
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 08, 2018, 01:40:51 PM
It's rather startling when you compare the Cavs roster that made the Finals last year -- and got shelled -- to their roster now.

Yes. Who is an above average starter on this team besides Lebron and Love? I would say Hill is definitely not above average starting point guard (it is very easy to name 15 points guards better than him). Thompson, especially now, is a below average starting center. Jr Smith, or Hood, is at best an average starting 2g. Then what scares you off the bench smith/hood? Nance is definitely good bench player, but beyond that.. nothing that scares you.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Who on February 08, 2018, 01:41:08 PM
PG: George Hill, Jordan Clarkson
SG: Rodney Hood, JR Smith
SF: LeBron James,
PF: Kevin Love, Larry Nance
 C: Tristan Thompson,

Deep bench: Richard Jefferson, Kyle Korver, Ante Zizic, Jose Calderon

That is a good 8 man rotation. A three man bench with a lead guard, a wing and a big man. Some spot minutes available for the other guys.

That can work. That can put Cleveland back in the mix with the Celtics and Raptors.
Love is out until March, and Rodney Hood is someone who does nothing but score. He was good for 12 points off the bench while Utah still had Hayward, how you think he's going to work next to LeBron? Oh, and he just missed close to half a month with a knee injury.

I like it for Cleveland because they replaced role players who could not play the roles asked of them with players who can (except for Clarkson). I like George Hill as a setup guard and off the ball shooter. I like Hood as an able defender and sometimes scorer who can both shoot and put the ball on the floor and drive. He is a decent passer too. I like Larry Nance as an athletic hustle big man who will give the team energy, defense & rebounding. Not wild about Clarkson but he will be valuable when LeBron is not on the floor. Someone who can create offense for himself.

I do not think Cleveland needed a 20-25ppg scorer so much as they needed a supporting cast who can actually help the team instead of hurt it -- which is what their supporting cast has been doing all season = hurt them. Make the team worse.

It is not a title winning team but then again neither is Toronto or Boston without Hayward. Cleveland still has LeBron James and with a new solid supporting cast the Cavs should be back in the mix come playoff time with the Raps and Celtics to win the East.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticinorlando on February 08, 2018, 01:41:36 PM
Never seen a team totally rebuilt with just 2 months until the playoffs and be successful.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Fireworks_Boom! on February 08, 2018, 01:44:50 PM
This to me screams surrender on the season for the Cavs. With Love out another 6 weeks and an entirely new rotation, they will not get it together in time for this season.

Perhaps moving forward it improves their chances of a youth movement?

If I were them, I would strongly consider completing the swing and blowing it completely up.

Lebron for Klay Thompson/Andre Iguodola

Rebuild with a team of:

George Hill/Jordan Clarkson
Rodney Hood/Andre Iguodola
Klay Thompson
Kevin Love/Larry Nance
Tristan Thompson

Hope the Brooklyn pick lands them a top 5 pick and go youth.


Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on February 08, 2018, 01:45:15 PM
No idea who's pushing the buttons there, but they've largely done well both short- and long-term.  Did not see anything remotely close to this overhaulageddon coming.

The Lakers trade is definitely a bad trade. They took on long term contract (nobody wanted Clarkson all season) and gave up a first round pick. They also opened up the chance for the Lakers to get their best player this offseason (George and Lebron now possible there). That is pretty objectively awful all for Nance (they could have just bought out IT). Cavs fans were livid with that trade.

The Hood, Hill trade is definitely a good trade.

I haven't been as high on Wade as most, but given he is Lebron's best friend and could provide some bench scoring in playoffs, that seems bad for a second round pick to dump.

Eh.  I think Clarkson is overrated, and yeah, they took on long-term salary.  But, they were stuck b/w a rock and a hard place -- one last title run with LBJ, and then an immediate rebuild.  I think they largely did well to address both, difficult as that is.  The market was probably horrible for IT, Clarkson can score, Nance is a nice piece, and the latter will help with the rebuild + the BKN pick.  And aside from Big Mo and I, Cavs fans are idiots.   
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: fairweatherfan on February 08, 2018, 01:47:27 PM
It's rather startling when you compare the Cavs roster that made the Finals last year -- and got shelled -- to their roster now.

No more startling than ours though. We've just had more time to get used to it.  The Cavs did a mini-blowup before the big one, though, and we just skipped straight to full reconstruction.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: blink on February 08, 2018, 01:48:42 PM
Never seen a team totally rebuilt with just 2 months until the playoffs and be successful.

This.  Add in Love (their 2nd best player) being out for who knows how long, I don't see how this ends with the Cavs as the #1 seed in the east, or them making the NBA finals.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: GreenEnvy on February 08, 2018, 01:49:06 PM
I think they potentially got better than they’ve been playing, if only for the lack of chemistry/enthusiasm the team had playing with each other.

However, their ceiling was lowered because (a big) if IT came anywhere close to what he was the last few seasons here, they have another go to scorer. Now, they have LeBron with Love and a whole bunch of role players.

Sounds a lot like the old Cavs pre-LeBron-Exodus-I.

LeBron and guys like Mo Williams, Daniel Gibson, Anderson Varejao, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Delonte West, etc. that are good support for LeBron but not guys who can take over.

Oh, and Lue is terrible and if given a decade wouldn’t be able to make this team gel quickly enough.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: blink on February 08, 2018, 01:49:30 PM
It's rather startling when you compare the Cavs roster that made the Finals last year -- and got shelled -- to their roster now.

No more startling than ours though. We've just had more time to get used to it.  The Cavs did a mini-blowup before the big one, though, and we just skipped straight to full reconstruction.

Well...we have Brad Stevens to figure that all out, Cavs have Tyrone Lue.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: GratefulCs on February 08, 2018, 01:50:47 PM
i think they made a lot of good trades...

on the other hand maybe they are trying to force lebron's hand and make him accept a trade


their chemistry was TERRIBLE so i think they will get better
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: colincb on February 08, 2018, 01:53:47 PM
The Cavs were broke as is so they cannot go down much more, but if Lebron bolts, Cavs are screwed for years and LBJ and Gilbert are not best buds. They sure are not winning it all this year with this crew either. Nance can defend and the rest suck and that's the biggest problem. Father time is undefeated and LBJ's days as an elite 2-way player may well be over.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: GreenEnvy on February 08, 2018, 01:54:14 PM
Don't see how these moves get Cleveland closer to a title of any kind

Everyone out West is laughing right now.

I think they just threw up a Hail Mary (but midway threw the 3rd quarter) to see what happens. I don’t think they lost anyone they planned on keeping long term, and had little confidence they could compete with that group. Yeah they got better defensively (I think) and more athletic, but I don’t see how their title chances increased at all.

If they do somehow make it out of the East, it’s because Gordon doesn’t return and/or Raptors choke. They would then proceed to get smoked in the Finals against any of about 4-5 teams.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: makaveli on February 08, 2018, 01:55:24 PM
can i make a bold prediction and say that they lose 7 of next 10, lebron shuts himself down to rest and prepare for next year, and the cavs don't make the playoffs?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: blink on February 08, 2018, 01:58:30 PM
can i make a bold prediction and say that they lose 7 of next 10, lebron shuts himself down to rest and prepare for next year, and the cavs don't make the playoffs?

wow that is a bold prediction...I mean we can hope.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Who on February 08, 2018, 02:00:58 PM
George Hill reminds me of Delonte West. Delonte and LeBron had good chemistry together with Delonte at PG in a bigger lineup (say Hood at SG) and as a SG next to Mo Williams in a smaller lineup (say Jordan Clarkson).

I like the idea of a lineup like this while K-Love is out

PG: Clarkson
SG: G.Hill
SF: Hood
PF: LeBron
 C: Thompson

They can put Nance in instead of Clarkson and go big when they need more size and rebounding. Or maybe just use this lineup as a smaller lineup when closing games.

I'd love to see LeBron sacrifice himself a bit physically and commit to playing more at PF. To competing harder on defense and especially as a rebounder at PF. He could do so much more to help the chemistry on that team. But it is something he has been unwilling to do dating back to his time in Miami - forcing poor Shane Battier to do the work he should have been doing himself.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: PhoSita on February 08, 2018, 02:02:10 PM
George Hill reminds me of Delonte West.

That's funny because this Cavs team now reminds me of their 2009-2010 squad.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: fairweatherfan on February 08, 2018, 02:05:06 PM
Cavs are reportedly filling an open roster spot with PEEEEEEEEERK!!


Great comeback big guy!  I still hope your team crumbles to dust around you though.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Birdman on February 08, 2018, 02:11:45 PM
Surprise they didn't get Evans 😝
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 08, 2018, 02:12:59 PM
George Hill reminds me of Delonte West.

That's funny because this Cavs team now reminds me of their 2009-2010 squad.

Yes! It is the first time since before the finals streak that Lebron is only playing with one other guy that recently made an all-star game.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: CF033 on February 08, 2018, 02:25:56 PM
It sounds to me like Cleveland knows this season is done with and they're just trying to get a jumpstart on rebuilding next year after LeBron inevitably splits to a team where he has any chance of winning another title or two.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: liam on February 08, 2018, 02:36:29 PM
The CAVS have accumulated a bunch of injury prone players. This new Cavs squad looks a lot like CAVS 2010. I'm not even sure they are better.....
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: jambr380 on February 08, 2018, 02:38:16 PM
I am surprised by the long-term salary Cleveland is bringing IN. Sure they send out $18.3M and $7.8M guaranteed in 18-19 and 19-20, respectively (Shumpert and Crowder).

But they are bringing back $31.5 guaranteed EACH of the next two years in Hill and Clarkson. They are also sending OUT a 1st round pick!

The team does look a little less flashy, but Lebron should be able to control these guys a lot better than the ones that were shipped out. I am not sure if it makes a difference this year - Lebron is still Lebron - I just wanted to point out that they took back quite a bit more guaranteed salary.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 08, 2018, 03:20:48 PM
I am surprised by the long-term salary Cleveland is bringing IN. Sure they send out $18.3M and $7.8M guaranteed in 18-19 and 19-20, respectively (Shumpert and Crowder).

But they are bringing back $31.5 guaranteed EACH of the next two years in Hill and Clarkson. They are also sending OUT a 1st round pick!

The team does look a little less flashy, but Lebron should be able to control these guys a lot better than the ones that were shipped out. I am not sure if it makes a difference this year - Lebron is still Lebron - I just wanted to point out that they took back quite a bit more guaranteed salary.
not to mention Nance and a re-signed Hood.  And of course the BKN pick.  they are in the luxury tax even if James leaves them, but if James comes back their salary next year will be astronomical.  They are going to have to find a way to dump at least one of Thompson, Smith, or Hill this summer.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: BringToughnessBack on February 08, 2018, 03:28:27 PM
The friends I know in Ohio are ecstatic.  They believe their front office did an amazing job and believe the poison has been shipped out of town. They feel they now have healthy scoring options at the wing for Lebron and they believe their defense could not get any worse. They think they are once again favorites to leave the East.  ::)

Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Big333223 on February 08, 2018, 04:26:25 PM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: cman88 on February 08, 2018, 04:42:30 PM
they just shuffled role players around. Its alot to ask of a team to be able to Gel in 2 months and get to the playoffs. especially a team with a non-coach like Lue.

its Lebron and a bunch of role-players. This may be worse than the 2010 team that lost to the celtics.

Who is their 3rd best player?

Cavs basically lowered their ceiling but raised their floor. if IT4 is/was able to get healthy they would be deadly.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: tazzmaniac on February 08, 2018, 04:43:23 PM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 08, 2018, 04:51:44 PM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).

Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Big333223 on February 08, 2018, 04:55:23 PM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

He's averaging 7 fewer ppg and almost all of his other numbers are down, except for his 3 point percentage. He also has not been playing the defense that he's known for playing. He has not been playing well for Sacramento.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 08, 2018, 04:56:39 PM
Magic Johnson loves Dan Gilbert now

Lavar is going public .... ::)

Only Doc and Jerry West can mess up team Johnson / Ball


A team of Magic.  Lavar and Lebron could easily be the easiest team to hate on since the Heat.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Ed Hollison on February 08, 2018, 04:59:59 PM
I agree that looking at this season in a vacuum, this was a good move. That team as constituted wasn't going anywhere, and the team needed to take some risks. I guess the idea now is just to surround Lebron with as many talented role players as possible, and guys who can actually move and defend. The ceiling for this team is the Finals; there's no way they're winning it, but then again, there was no way they were winning it before the trades, either.

One thing I strongly disagree with is the idea that the team chemistry is certain to improve. Guys like IT, Crowder, and Wade weren't seen as problems for team chemistry when they joined the Cavs. On the contrary, I'd say they were each seen as bringing some veteran savvy and grit to the team. Consider the possibility that the Cavs organization is the reason why these players -- in particular IT -- are now thought of so negatively. It's entirely possible that the Cavs' new additions fall into the same trap in an environment where Lebron essentially controls the organization, and the coach has little ability to dictate team culture. Chemistry could still remain a problem, in fact it could get worse, especially with so little time between now and the end of the regular season.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: kozlodoev on February 08, 2018, 05:00:52 PM
So are the Lakers better or worse now? Is the 2018 LA pick all of a sudden in play again?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: ChillyWilly on February 08, 2018, 05:05:16 PM
What are the Lakers going to do with IT?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Surferdad on February 08, 2018, 05:10:38 PM
I agree that looking at this season in a vacuum, this was a good move. That team as constituted wasn't going anywhere, and the team needed to take some risks. I guess the idea now is just to surround Lebron with as many talented role players as possible, and guys who can actually move and defend. The ceiling for this team is the Finals; there's no way they're winning it, but then again, there was no way they were winning it before the trades, either.

One thing I strongly disagree with is the idea that the team chemistry is certain to improve. Guys like IT, Crowder, and Wade weren't seen as problems for team chemistry when they joined the Cavs. On the contrary, I'd say they were each seen as bringing some veteran savvy and grit to the team. Consider the possibility that the Cavs organization is the reason why these players -- in particular IT -- are now thought of so negatively. It's entirely possible that the Cavs' new additions fall into the same trap in an environment where Lebron essentially controls the organization, and the coach has little ability to dictate team culture. Chemistry could still remain a problem, in fact it could get worse, especially with so little time between now and the end of the regular season.
Right.  It's not bad attitude player and may not even be due to the Cavs organization.  Then what's the problem?  Here's my wild theory:

Players were not committed so long as LeBron remained uncommitted to staying next year.  It's a subtle thing and may be even have been conscious on their part.  If the leader of the team can't say he's going to stay, the other players have to wonder about their own futures.  That shadow of a doubt about whether they are in the right place could translate to a lack of effort.  As I said, it's a wild theory, I have nothing to back it up, but I've seen such situations in my own professional field.  People stop talking to each other and seem to only be there to collect a paycheck.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Donoghus on February 08, 2018, 05:17:29 PM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.

A wise man once said "Desperation is a stinky cologne". 

Can't blame CLE for what they're doing.  Long term, they might be better set up but in the now, they're going to need superhuman Lebron to get back to the Finals this season, IMO.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: PhoSita on February 08, 2018, 05:35:40 PM
So are the Lakers better or worse now? Is the 2018 LA pick all of a sudden in play again?

I think they're almost definitely worse if they're going to play him plenty of minutes and let him shoot a lot.  They have no defensive infrastructure around him, so they'll just give up a ton of points even if their offense improves.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 09, 2018, 08:51:14 AM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: cman88 on February 10, 2018, 09:05:05 AM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 10, 2018, 09:14:06 AM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: cman88 on February 11, 2018, 09:45:16 AM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticinorlando on February 11, 2018, 09:48:33 AM
I expect 30 or 40 from Lebron today. Might not be enough to win because usually Kevin love is the guy that kill Boston...but I expect James to shoot in volume
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 11, 2018, 10:27:33 AM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 11, 2018, 10:40:41 AM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: CelticsElite on February 11, 2018, 05:51:04 PM
Guessing everyone celebrating "cavsmagedon" or calling it a lateral move are probably going to take it back. Cavs traded slow ball chuckers for 2 way hustle players and 3 pt sharp shooters.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Dino Pitino on February 11, 2018, 05:56:03 PM
Cavs traded slow ball chuckers for 2 way hustle players and 3 pt sharp shooters.

Yep.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 11, 2018, 05:58:31 PM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: SparzWizard on February 11, 2018, 06:14:31 PM
Somebody create a "CELTSMAGEDDON" thread.

121 points allowed in the NBA this season is the most ever for a top-level defense.

And I felt really bad that Paul Pierce had to watch that embarrassing show from the Celtics today.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: BringToughnessBack on February 11, 2018, 06:56:41 PM
Worst case scenario, Cavs gel like they did today and Lebron is back in finals again. After season, he realizes, his best chance to win more titles is to stay right where he is. Oh, they have a chance at the first pick in the draft this year as well. Imagine them adding one of the elite prospects coming out.

There GM clearly got rid of what was viewed as dead weight and cancer and replaced it with some players who can hit open shots and pick the pace up a bit.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 11, 2018, 07:48:40 PM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.

He scored more as in 11.0 more points per game.  That's a huge amount, especially when maintaining efficiency.  For perspective, that's about the same scoring differential as there is between Lebron and Andre Drummond this year.

Win Shares, BPM, VORP, PER...  all of them have IT having a better season by a wide margin. 

Kevin Love isn't any more of a complete player than IT was last season.  Love is a terrible defender, just like IT.  The difference is that IT added much, much more on the offensive end, while creating his own shot and opportunities for his teammates.  That's why IT made All-NBA second team, while Love hasn't made an All-NBA team in four seasons (and won't think year).
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Phantom255x on February 11, 2018, 07:57:16 PM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.

Wrong.

Isaiah was a Top-5 MVP candidate that averaged 29/6 and he made All-NBA 2nd team. Love had a great season but his defense wasn't elite either, and Isaiah's impact overall on the C's outweighs Kevin Love's impact on the Cavaliers.

To say Kevin Love's season last year > Isaiah's is honestly ridiculous to me. Even stats seem to disagree with that despite Isaiah also being horrible on defense (which is actually amazing to be honest - he did have a helluva year for us last year).
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Celtics4ever on February 11, 2018, 08:04:53 PM
Give it time folks, I am sure LeBron is on his best behavior right now.   Let these guys get to know him, LeBron is a great time when he is winning but a lose or two and he will start blaming everyone but himself.   
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: tenn_smoothie on February 11, 2018, 08:26:05 PM
Give it time folks, I am sure LeBron is on his best behavior right now.   Let these guys get to know him, LeBron is a great time when he is winning but a lose or two and he will start blaming everyone but himself.

Very True. Let's hope the honeymoon fades as the playoffs begin.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Phantom255x on February 11, 2018, 08:27:24 PM
Give it time folks, I am sure LeBron is on his best behavior right now.   Let these guys get to know him, LeBron is a great time when he is winning but a lose or two and he will start blaming everyone but himself.

Yeah I 100% agree. Jeff Van Gundy even mentioned it on the broadcast today.

It's easy to be happy and feel good during wins, BUT when any sort of losing happens or adversity strikes, that's when things can get testy.

Remember when everything looked great at The Land during their winning streak? What happened when they started losing more and playing with less effort. Half the team got shipped out.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: CelticSooner on February 11, 2018, 08:28:20 PM
Give it time folks, I am sure LeBron is on his best behavior right now.   Let these guys get to know him, LeBron is a great time when he is winning but a lose or two and he will start blaming everyone but himself.

The guys they added should be more willing to fall in line behind "the king" than IT and the rest of the older players they shipped out.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: tenn_smoothie on February 11, 2018, 08:40:10 PM
Very painful day.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 11, 2018, 09:49:21 PM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.

He scored more as in 11.0 more points per game.  That's a huge amount, especially when maintaining efficiency.  For perspective, that's about the same scoring differential as there is between Lebron and Andre Drummond this year.

Win Shares, BPM, VORP, PER...  all of them have IT having a better season by a wide margin. 

Kevin Love isn't any more of a complete player than IT was last season.  Love is a terrible defender, just like IT.  The difference is that IT added much, much more on the offensive end, while creating his own shot and opportunities for his teammates.  That's why IT made All-NBA second team, while Love hasn't made an All-NBA team in four seasons (and won't think year).
Love is playing with LeBron. Love's last year in Minnesota he was better than 26 and 12 (not to mention 4.4 apg).  Love isn't a worse player now at age 29 then he was then at age 25 or at age 23 when he finished 6th in MVP voting.  Just because he plays with James this year and James and Irving the last 3 stunting his stats doesn't mean he is a worse player.  Kevin Love is better than IT and always has been.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 11, 2018, 09:53:07 PM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.

Wrong.

Isaiah was a Top-5 MVP candidate that averaged 29/6 and he made All-NBA 2nd team. Love had a great season but his defense wasn't elite either, and Isaiah's impact overall on the C's outweighs Kevin Love's impact on the Cavaliers.

To say Kevin Love's season last year > Isaiah's is honestly ridiculous to me. Even stats seem to disagree with that despite Isaiah also being horrible on defense (which is actually amazing to be honest - he did have a helluva year for us last year).
I said Love was better than IT. I never said Love this year or last year has had a better season than IT had last year.  There is a very big difference between those statemwnts
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 12, 2018, 12:12:23 AM
Very painful day.

I agree. We had no effort and played like crap. Worst of all we have to deal with cavs fans gloating on here and talking about how great they are for the next few weeks. Sad we have to deal with that's on a Celtics forum
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on February 12, 2018, 12:20:22 AM
Give it time folks, I am sure LeBron is on his best behavior right now.   Let these guys get to know him, LeBron is a great time when he is winning but a lose or two and he will start blaming everyone but himself.

Yeah I 100% agree. Jeff Van Gundy even mentioned it on the broadcast today.

It's easy to be happy and feel good during wins, BUT when any sort of losing happens or adversity strikes, that's when things can get testy.

Remember when everything looked great at The Land during their winning streak? What happened when they started losing more and playing with less effort. Half the team got shipped out.

This isn't directed at you, Phantom, you just happened to bring it up:

I think "The Land" is a weak attempt at a nickname, and not known broadly enough to have it on a jersey.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 12, 2018, 06:09:03 AM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.

Wrong.

Isaiah was a Top-5 MVP candidate that averaged 29/6 and he made All-NBA 2nd team. Love had a great season but his defense wasn't elite either, and Isaiah's impact overall on the C's outweighs Kevin Love's impact on the Cavaliers.

To say Kevin Love's season last year > Isaiah's is honestly ridiculous to me. Even stats seem to disagree with that despite Isaiah also being horrible on defense (which is actually amazing to be honest - he did have a helluva year for us last year).
I said Love was better than IT. I never said Love this year or last year has had a better season than IT had last year.  There is a very big difference between those statemwnts

You said Love this year was better than IT last year. There’s no real objective support for that position. We judge players based upon results.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Big333223 on February 12, 2018, 07:11:51 AM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.

Wrong.

Isaiah was a Top-5 MVP candidate that averaged 29/6 and he made All-NBA 2nd team. Love had a great season but his defense wasn't elite either, and Isaiah's impact overall on the C's outweighs Kevin Love's impact on the Cavaliers.

To say Kevin Love's season last year > Isaiah's is honestly ridiculous to me. Even stats seem to disagree with that despite Isaiah also being horrible on defense (which is actually amazing to be honest - he did have a helluva year for us last year).
I said Love was better than IT. I never said Love this year or last year has had a better season than IT had last year.  There is a very big difference between those statemwnts

You said Love this year was better than IT last year. There’s no real objective support for that position. We judge players based upon results.

Yeah, this is a pretty wild argument to me. I know IT gets some hate around this board now, but arguing that Kevin Love is having a better season this year than IT had last year is... just wild.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Erik on February 12, 2018, 08:15:02 AM
It's obvious IT performed better last year than Kevin Love this year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Love&player_id2_select=Kevin+Love&y2=2018&player_id2=loveke01&idx=players

Maybe what Moranis was getting at is that an entire NBA team (top to bottom, offense, defense)  wasn't designed around Kevin Love like it was for IT and he could perform similarly if that were the case. I think that I would probably agree with that because Love has consistently been regarded as a top 30 player (sometimes 20, 10, 5). IT had one season in which he was maybe top 10. The evidence strongly points to ITs success being more the system than the player and that Love is an actual star.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 12, 2018, 08:24:57 AM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.

Wrong.

Isaiah was a Top-5 MVP candidate that averaged 29/6 and he made All-NBA 2nd team. Love had a great season but his defense wasn't elite either, and Isaiah's impact overall on the C's outweighs Kevin Love's impact on the Cavaliers.

To say Kevin Love's season last year > Isaiah's is honestly ridiculous to me. Even stats seem to disagree with that despite Isaiah also being horrible on defense (which is actually amazing to be honest - he did have a helluva year for us last year).
I said Love was better than IT. I never said Love this year or last year has had a better season than IT had last year.  There is a very big difference between those statemwnts

You said Love this year was better than IT last year. There’s no real objective support for that position. We judge players based upon results.
By this logic IT was a better player then both Curry and Durant last year also.  Stats are based on team role, surrounding players, etc.  Stats don't tell you who a better player is.  They certainly play a role.  IT had the 5th best season last year, but he wasn't the 5th best player in the world. 

Kevin Love had multiple seasons of at least 26 ppg and 12.5 rpg.  One of those seasons he added nearly 4.5 apg (the other was 2).  He finished 6th in MVP voting one of those seasons (he was 11th in the other).  He was 2nd Team All NBA both of those seasons.  He was the #1 option on that team, but was aged 23 and 25 in those seasons (age 24 year he was injured).  He then went to a team where he was no longer the #1 option and that had other excellent rebounders and his stats diminished.  He is now 29, which historically is right in the middle of a players physical prime.  Kevin Love is thus the best actual player he has ever been and that player is at least a 26/12/4 player as a #1 option and that player is a better player than IT has ever been.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 12, 2018, 08:29:31 AM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.

Wrong.

Isaiah was a Top-5 MVP candidate that averaged 29/6 and he made All-NBA 2nd team. Love had a great season but his defense wasn't elite either, and Isaiah's impact overall on the C's outweighs Kevin Love's impact on the Cavaliers.

To say Kevin Love's season last year > Isaiah's is honestly ridiculous to me. Even stats seem to disagree with that despite Isaiah also being horrible on defense (which is actually amazing to be honest - he did have a helluva year for us last year).
I said Love was better than IT. I never said Love this year or last year has had a better season than IT had last year.  There is a very big difference between those statemwnts

You said Love this year was better than IT last year. There’s no real objective support for that position. We judge players based upon results.

Yeah, this is a pretty wild argument to me. I know IT gets some hate around this board now, but arguing that Kevin Love is having a better season this year than IT had last year is... just wild.
Again I never argued Love was having a better season, I said he is a better player.  There is a very large difference between those two statements.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 12, 2018, 08:32:31 AM
It's obvious IT performed better last year than Kevin Love this year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Love&player_id2_select=Kevin+Love&y2=2018&player_id2=loveke01&idx=players

Maybe what Moranis was getting at is that an entire NBA team (top to bottom, offense, defense)  wasn't designed around Kevin Love like it was for IT and he could perform similarly if that were the case. I think that I would probably agree with that because Love has consistently been regarded as a top 30 player (sometimes 20, 10, 5). IT had one season in which he was maybe top 10. The evidence strongly points to ITs success being more the system than the player and that Love is an actual star.
This is basically what I've been arguing.  That the stats don't actually tell you who a better player is.  Kevin Love is a better player than Isaiah Thomas and he has been every single year IT has been in the league, despite the fact that IT had a better statistical season last year.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 12, 2018, 08:43:07 AM
It's obvious IT performed better last year than Kevin Love this year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Love&player_id2_select=Kevin+Love&y2=2018&player_id2=loveke01&idx=players

Maybe what Moranis was getting at is that an entire NBA team (top to bottom, offense, defense)  wasn't designed around Kevin Love like it was for IT and he could perform similarly if that were the case. I think that I would probably agree with that because Love has consistently been regarded as a top 30 player (sometimes 20, 10, 5). IT had one season in which he was maybe top 10. The evidence strongly points to ITs success being more the system than the player and that Love is an actual star.
This is basically what I've been arguing.  That the stats don't actually tell you who a better player is.  Kevin Love is a better player than Isaiah Thomas and he has been every single year IT has been in the league, despite the fact that IT had a better statistical season last year.

Then Kevin Love is the biggest underachiever in recent memory.  Players are measured in achievement and production, not some unrealized potential.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: green_bballers13 on February 12, 2018, 08:56:28 AM
It's obvious IT performed better last year than Kevin Love this year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Love&player_id2_select=Kevin+Love&y2=2018&player_id2=loveke01&idx=players

Maybe what Moranis was getting at is that an entire NBA team (top to bottom, offense, defense)  wasn't designed around Kevin Love like it was for IT and he could perform similarly if that were the case. I think that I would probably agree with that because Love has consistently been regarded as a top 30 player (sometimes 20, 10, 5). IT had one season in which he was maybe top 10. The evidence strongly points to ITs success being more the system than the player and that Love is an actual star.
This is basically what I've been arguing.  That the stats don't actually tell you who a better player is.  Kevin Love is a better player than Isaiah Thomas and he has been every single year IT has been in the league, despite the fact that IT had a better statistical season last year.

Then Kevin Love is the biggest underachiever in recent memory.  Players are measured in achievement and production, not some unrealized potential.

I agree. IT was better than Kevin Love one year. That being said, I would have traded IT for Kevin Love straight up at the end of last year.

At this point, IT is being traded as if he has very little value. Whether we love IT or not, the NBA does not value him very much as a basketball player. This is a tough time to defend his value.

Re: Cavsmageddon: The Cavs have improved. They are better than the Celtics.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 12, 2018, 09:04:34 AM
It's obvious IT performed better last year than Kevin Love this year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Love&player_id2_select=Kevin+Love&y2=2018&player_id2=loveke01&idx=players

Maybe what Moranis was getting at is that an entire NBA team (top to bottom, offense, defense)  wasn't designed around Kevin Love like it was for IT and he could perform similarly if that were the case. I think that I would probably agree with that because Love has consistently been regarded as a top 30 player (sometimes 20, 10, 5). IT had one season in which he was maybe top 10. The evidence strongly points to ITs success being more the system than the player and that Love is an actual star.
This is basically what I've been arguing.  That the stats don't actually tell you who a better player is.  Kevin Love is a better player than Isaiah Thomas and he has been every single year IT has been in the league, despite the fact that IT had a better statistical season last year.

Then Kevin Love is the biggest underachiever in recent memory.  Players are measured in achievement and production, not some unrealized potential.

I agree. IT was better than Kevin Love one year. That being said, I would have traded IT for Kevin Love straight up at the end of last year.

At this point, IT is being traded as if he has very little value. Whether we love IT or not, the NBA does not value him very much as a basketball player. This is a tough time to defend his value.

Current value, yes. He’s got a hip condition and is rusty.  Danny probably sold high.

But, Love doesn’t have much value himself. Rememember, the Cavs reportedly were having trouble finding a team to take him when they were trying to trade for Love over the summer.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: green_bballers13 on February 12, 2018, 09:14:35 AM
It's obvious IT performed better last year than Kevin Love this year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Love&player_id2_select=Kevin+Love&y2=2018&player_id2=loveke01&idx=players

Maybe what Moranis was getting at is that an entire NBA team (top to bottom, offense, defense)  wasn't designed around Kevin Love like it was for IT and he could perform similarly if that were the case. I think that I would probably agree with that because Love has consistently been regarded as a top 30 player (sometimes 20, 10, 5). IT had one season in which he was maybe top 10. The evidence strongly points to ITs success being more the system than the player and that Love is an actual star.
This is basically what I've been arguing.  That the stats don't actually tell you who a better player is.  Kevin Love is a better player than Isaiah Thomas and he has been every single year IT has been in the league, despite the fact that IT had a better statistical season last year.

Then Kevin Love is the biggest underachiever in recent memory.  Players are measured in achievement and production, not some unrealized potential.

I agree. IT was better than Kevin Love one year. That being said, I would have traded IT for Kevin Love straight up at the end of last year.

At this point, IT is being traded as if he has very little value. Whether we love IT or not, the NBA does not value him very much as a basketball player. This is a tough time to defend his value.

Current value, yes. He’s got a hip condition and is rusty.  Danny probably sold high.

But, Love doesn’t have much value himself. Rememember, the Cavs reportedly were having trouble finding a team to take him when they were trying to trade for Love over the summer.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't you in the camp that thought that IT's hip was not a serious concern? At this point (and at his age), it not crazy to think that IT won't regain his athleticism.

I think this is the source of IT's frustration. He realizes that he's damaged goods, at the worst possible time. I think it is disingenuous for IT to hint that he should have shut it down during the playoffs- IT wanted to perform under the big lights more than anyone. He deserves the admiration of Danny, but that's about it.

I don't see how a team gives him big money for more than 2 years at this point.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 12, 2018, 09:15:23 AM
It's obvious IT performed better last year than Kevin Love this year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Love&player_id2_select=Kevin+Love&y2=2018&player_id2=loveke01&idx=players

Maybe what Moranis was getting at is that an entire NBA team (top to bottom, offense, defense)  wasn't designed around Kevin Love like it was for IT and he could perform similarly if that were the case. I think that I would probably agree with that because Love has consistently been regarded as a top 30 player (sometimes 20, 10, 5). IT had one season in which he was maybe top 10. The evidence strongly points to ITs success being more the system than the player and that Love is an actual star.
This is basically what I've been arguing.  That the stats don't actually tell you who a better player is.  Kevin Love is a better player than Isaiah Thomas and he has been every single year IT has been in the league, despite the fact that IT had a better statistical season last year.

Then Kevin Love is the biggest underachiever in recent memory.  Players are measured in achievement and production, not some unrealized potential.
Production Rates

TS% - RB% - AST% - STL% - BLK% - TOV% - USG%

Age 23 - 6th in MVP voting season
56.8 - 19.0 - 10.0 - 1.1 - 0.9 - 9.2 - 28.8

Age 25 - last year in Minn
59.1 - 18.7 - 21.4 - 1.0 - 1.0 -10.3 - 28.8

Age 29 - Current Season
61.3 - 18.7 - 9.4 - 1.2 - 1.3 - 9.3 - 25.5


How about per 36 totals

Points - Rebounds - Assists - Steals - Blocks - Turnovers

Age 23
24/12.3/1.9/0.8/0.5/2.1

Age 25
25.9/12.4/4.4/0.8/0.5/2.5

Age 29
23/12/2.1/0.9/0.5/1.9


His actual on floor production, his rates, etc. are pretty similar on an actual per minute basis.  He is playing less minutes and taking less shots, but is scoring more per shot.  He is rebounding at almost an identical percentage of available rebounds even with playing next to the best rebounding SF since Bird. 

The reality is numbers diminish when you go from a #1 option to a #2 or #3 option.  Ask Chris Bosh how that went.  I mean his last year in Toronto Bosh was a 24/11/2.5 player.  His time in Miami with James he was basically a 17/7/1.5 player (getting worse every season) to a low of basically 16/6.5/1 and then James leaves and Bosh jumps back up to 21/7/2. 

Heck even former MVP's who join more talented teams see their production drop.  Curry dropped 5 ppg when Durant joined him.  Durant dropped 3 ppg.  James in his Miami move dropped 3 ppg.  But it doesn't mean any of those players aren't still just as good as they were before they had new teammates. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: green_bballers13 on February 12, 2018, 09:23:31 AM
Also look at how KG's #s changed from Minnesota to Boston as he got older.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 12, 2018, 09:25:51 AM
It's obvious IT performed better last year than Kevin Love this year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Love&player_id2_select=Kevin+Love&y2=2018&player_id2=loveke01&idx=players

Maybe what Moranis was getting at is that an entire NBA team (top to bottom, offense, defense)  wasn't designed around Kevin Love like it was for IT and he could perform similarly if that were the case. I think that I would probably agree with that because Love has consistently been regarded as a top 30 player (sometimes 20, 10, 5). IT had one season in which he was maybe top 10. The evidence strongly points to ITs success being more the system than the player and that Love is an actual star.
This is basically what I've been arguing.  That the stats don't actually tell you who a better player is.  Kevin Love is a better player than Isaiah Thomas and he has been every single year IT has been in the league, despite the fact that IT had a better statistical season last year.

Then Kevin Love is the biggest underachiever in recent memory.  Players are measured in achievement and production, not some unrealized potential.
Production Rates

TS% - RB% - AST% - STL% - BLK% - TOV% - USG%

Age 23 - 6th in MVP voting season
56.8 - 19.0 - 10.0 - 1.1 - 0.9 - 9.2 - 28.8

Age 25 - last year in Minn
59.1 - 18.7 - 21.4 - 1.0 - 1.0 -10.3 - 28.8

Age 29 - Current Season
61.3 - 18.7 - 9.4 - 1.2 - 1.3 - 9.3 - 25.5


How about per 36 totals

Points - Rebounds - Assists - Steals - Blocks - Turnovers

Age 23
24/12.3/1.9/0.8/0.5/2.1

Age 25
25.9/12.4/4.4/0.8/0.5/2.5

Age 29
23/12/2.1/0.9/0.5/1.9


His actual on floor production, his rates, etc. are pretty similar on an actual per minute basis.  He is playing less minutes and taking less shots, but is scoring more per shot.  He is rebounding at almost an identical percentage of available rebounds even with playing next to the best rebounding SF since Bird. 

The reality is numbers diminish when you go from a #1 option to a #2 or #3 option.  Ask Chris Bosh how that went.  I mean his last year in Toronto Bosh was a 24/11/2.5 player.  His time in Miami with James he was basically a 17/7/1.5 player (getting worse every season) to a low of basically 16/6.5/1 and then James leaves and Bosh jumps back up to 21/7/2. 

Heck even former MVP's who join more talented teams see their production drop.  Curry dropped 5 ppg when Durant joined him.  Durant dropped 3 ppg.  James in his Miami move dropped 3 ppg.  But it doesn't mean any of those players aren't still just as good as they were before they had new teammates.

Kevin Love is the second option on the Cavs, and he’s averaging 18 ppg. If he’s capable of playing like a top-10 player, why isn’t he? He’s scoring less as a second option than he did as a third option last season.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 12, 2018, 09:36:29 AM
It's obvious IT performed better last year than Kevin Love this year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Love&player_id2_select=Kevin+Love&y2=2018&player_id2=loveke01&idx=players

Maybe what Moranis was getting at is that an entire NBA team (top to bottom, offense, defense)  wasn't designed around Kevin Love like it was for IT and he could perform similarly if that were the case. I think that I would probably agree with that because Love has consistently been regarded as a top 30 player (sometimes 20, 10, 5). IT had one season in which he was maybe top 10. The evidence strongly points to ITs success being more the system than the player and that Love is an actual star.
This is basically what I've been arguing.  That the stats don't actually tell you who a better player is.  Kevin Love is a better player than Isaiah Thomas and he has been every single year IT has been in the league, despite the fact that IT had a better statistical season last year.

Then Kevin Love is the biggest underachiever in recent memory.  Players are measured in achievement and production, not some unrealized potential.
Production Rates

TS% - RB% - AST% - STL% - BLK% - TOV% - USG%

Age 23 - 6th in MVP voting season
56.8 - 19.0 - 10.0 - 1.1 - 0.9 - 9.2 - 28.8

Age 25 - last year in Minn
59.1 - 18.7 - 21.4 - 1.0 - 1.0 -10.3 - 28.8

Age 29 - Current Season
61.3 - 18.7 - 9.4 - 1.2 - 1.3 - 9.3 - 25.5


How about per 36 totals

Points - Rebounds - Assists - Steals - Blocks - Turnovers

Age 23
24/12.3/1.9/0.8/0.5/2.1

Age 25
25.9/12.4/4.4/0.8/0.5/2.5

Age 29
23/12/2.1/0.9/0.5/1.9


His actual on floor production, his rates, etc. are pretty similar on an actual per minute basis.  He is playing less minutes and taking less shots, but is scoring more per shot.  He is rebounding at almost an identical percentage of available rebounds even with playing next to the best rebounding SF since Bird. 

The reality is numbers diminish when you go from a #1 option to a #2 or #3 option.  Ask Chris Bosh how that went.  I mean his last year in Toronto Bosh was a 24/11/2.5 player.  His time in Miami with James he was basically a 17/7/1.5 player (getting worse every season) to a low of basically 16/6.5/1 and then James leaves and Bosh jumps back up to 21/7/2. 

Heck even former MVP's who join more talented teams see their production drop.  Curry dropped 5 ppg when Durant joined him.  Durant dropped 3 ppg.  James in his Miami move dropped 3 ppg.  But it doesn't mean any of those players aren't still just as good as they were before they had new teammates.

Kevin Love is the second option on the Cavs, and he’s averaging 18 ppg. If he’s capable of playing like a top-10 player, why isn’t he? He’s scoring less as a second option than he did as a third option last season.
He is playing 28 mpg, down from 31.4 mpg.  He is actually scoring more per minute this year then he was last year.  His minutes are down in a large part because the Cavs were a mess and had a lot of blowouts (in both directions) and he had the illness game of 3 minutes and the injury game of 5 minutes (he goes up a full minute if you take those two games out).
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 12, 2018, 09:39:26 AM
It's obvious IT performed better last year than Kevin Love this year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Love&player_id2_select=Kevin+Love&y2=2018&player_id2=loveke01&idx=players

Maybe what Moranis was getting at is that an entire NBA team (top to bottom, offense, defense)  wasn't designed around Kevin Love like it was for IT and he could perform similarly if that were the case. I think that I would probably agree with that because Love has consistently been regarded as a top 30 player (sometimes 20, 10, 5). IT had one season in which he was maybe top 10. The evidence strongly points to ITs success being more the system than the player and that Love is an actual star.
This is basically what I've been arguing.  That the stats don't actually tell you who a better player is.  Kevin Love is a better player than Isaiah Thomas and he has been every single year IT has been in the league, despite the fact that IT had a better statistical season last year.

Then Kevin Love is the biggest underachiever in recent memory.  Players are measured in achievement and production, not some unrealized potential.
Production Rates

TS% - RB% - AST% - STL% - BLK% - TOV% - USG%

Age 23 - 6th in MVP voting season
56.8 - 19.0 - 10.0 - 1.1 - 0.9 - 9.2 - 28.8

Age 25 - last year in Minn
59.1 - 18.7 - 21.4 - 1.0 - 1.0 -10.3 - 28.8

Age 29 - Current Season
61.3 - 18.7 - 9.4 - 1.2 - 1.3 - 9.3 - 25.5


How about per 36 totals

Points - Rebounds - Assists - Steals - Blocks - Turnovers

Age 23
24/12.3/1.9/0.8/0.5/2.1

Age 25
25.9/12.4/4.4/0.8/0.5/2.5

Age 29
23/12/2.1/0.9/0.5/1.9


His actual on floor production, his rates, etc. are pretty similar on an actual per minute basis.  He is playing less minutes and taking less shots, but is scoring more per shot.  He is rebounding at almost an identical percentage of available rebounds even with playing next to the best rebounding SF since Bird. 

The reality is numbers diminish when you go from a #1 option to a #2 or #3 option.  Ask Chris Bosh how that went.  I mean his last year in Toronto Bosh was a 24/11/2.5 player.  His time in Miami with James he was basically a 17/7/1.5 player (getting worse every season) to a low of basically 16/6.5/1 and then James leaves and Bosh jumps back up to 21/7/2. 

Heck even former MVP's who join more talented teams see their production drop.  Curry dropped 5 ppg when Durant joined him.  Durant dropped 3 ppg.  James in his Miami move dropped 3 ppg.  But it doesn't mean any of those players aren't still just as good as they were before they had new teammates.

Kevin Love is the second option on the Cavs, and he’s averaging 18 ppg. If he’s capable of playing like a top-10 player, why isn’t he? He’s scoring less as a second option than he did as a third option last season.
He is playing 28 mpg, down from 31.4 mpg.  He is actually scoring more per minute this year then he was last year.  His minutes are down in a large part because the Cavs were a mess and had a lot of blowouts (in both directions) and he had the illness game of 3 minutes and the injury game of 5 minutes (he goes up a full minute if you take those two games out).

Shouldn’t he step up his production in the absence of Kyrie? Why hasn’t he if he’s a latent superstar?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 12, 2018, 09:51:04 AM
It's obvious IT performed better last year than Kevin Love this year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Love&player_id2_select=Kevin+Love&y2=2018&player_id2=loveke01&idx=players

Maybe what Moranis was getting at is that an entire NBA team (top to bottom, offense, defense)  wasn't designed around Kevin Love like it was for IT and he could perform similarly if that were the case. I think that I would probably agree with that because Love has consistently been regarded as a top 30 player (sometimes 20, 10, 5). IT had one season in which he was maybe top 10. The evidence strongly points to ITs success being more the system than the player and that Love is an actual star.
This is basically what I've been arguing.  That the stats don't actually tell you who a better player is.  Kevin Love is a better player than Isaiah Thomas and he has been every single year IT has been in the league, despite the fact that IT had a better statistical season last year.

Then Kevin Love is the biggest underachiever in recent memory.  Players are measured in achievement and production, not some unrealized potential.
Production Rates

TS% - RB% - AST% - STL% - BLK% - TOV% - USG%

Age 23 - 6th in MVP voting season
56.8 - 19.0 - 10.0 - 1.1 - 0.9 - 9.2 - 28.8

Age 25 - last year in Minn
59.1 - 18.7 - 21.4 - 1.0 - 1.0 -10.3 - 28.8

Age 29 - Current Season
61.3 - 18.7 - 9.4 - 1.2 - 1.3 - 9.3 - 25.5


How about per 36 totals

Points - Rebounds - Assists - Steals - Blocks - Turnovers

Age 23
24/12.3/1.9/0.8/0.5/2.1

Age 25
25.9/12.4/4.4/0.8/0.5/2.5

Age 29
23/12/2.1/0.9/0.5/1.9


His actual on floor production, his rates, etc. are pretty similar on an actual per minute basis.  He is playing less minutes and taking less shots, but is scoring more per shot.  He is rebounding at almost an identical percentage of available rebounds even with playing next to the best rebounding SF since Bird. 

The reality is numbers diminish when you go from a #1 option to a #2 or #3 option.  Ask Chris Bosh how that went.  I mean his last year in Toronto Bosh was a 24/11/2.5 player.  His time in Miami with James he was basically a 17/7/1.5 player (getting worse every season) to a low of basically 16/6.5/1 and then James leaves and Bosh jumps back up to 21/7/2. 

Heck even former MVP's who join more talented teams see their production drop.  Curry dropped 5 ppg when Durant joined him.  Durant dropped 3 ppg.  James in his Miami move dropped 3 ppg.  But it doesn't mean any of those players aren't still just as good as they were before they had new teammates.

Kevin Love is the second option on the Cavs, and he’s averaging 18 ppg. If he’s capable of playing like a top-10 player, why isn’t he? He’s scoring less as a second option than he did as a third option last season.
He is playing 28 mpg, down from 31.4 mpg.  He is actually scoring more per minute this year then he was last year.  His minutes are down in a large part because the Cavs were a mess and had a lot of blowouts (in both directions) and he had the illness game of 3 minutes and the injury game of 5 minutes (he goes up a full minute if you take those two games out).

Shouldn’t he step up his production in the absence of Kyrie? Why hasn’t he if he’s a latent superstar?
He did step up his production.  You just keep ignoring that he is actually a more productive player this year then he was last year or at any time previously in Cleveland.  He is playing less minutes because the Cavs were a mess. 

For more proof of that mess, Lebron didn't jump his production.  He is a nearly identical player on a per minute basis this year as he was last year (and he is playing nearly identical minutes).  Shouldn't the best player in the world see a production spike when the 2nd best player leaves the team?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 12, 2018, 09:58:22 AM
It's obvious IT performed better last year than Kevin Love this year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Love&player_id2_select=Kevin+Love&y2=2018&player_id2=loveke01&idx=players

Maybe what Moranis was getting at is that an entire NBA team (top to bottom, offense, defense)  wasn't designed around Kevin Love like it was for IT and he could perform similarly if that were the case. I think that I would probably agree with that because Love has consistently been regarded as a top 30 player (sometimes 20, 10, 5). IT had one season in which he was maybe top 10. The evidence strongly points to ITs success being more the system than the player and that Love is an actual star.
This is basically what I've been arguing.  That the stats don't actually tell you who a better player is.  Kevin Love is a better player than Isaiah Thomas and he has been every single year IT has been in the league, despite the fact that IT had a better statistical season last year.

Then Kevin Love is the biggest underachiever in recent memory.  Players are measured in achievement and production, not some unrealized potential.
Production Rates

TS% - RB% - AST% - STL% - BLK% - TOV% - USG%

Age 23 - 6th in MVP voting season
56.8 - 19.0 - 10.0 - 1.1 - 0.9 - 9.2 - 28.8

Age 25 - last year in Minn
59.1 - 18.7 - 21.4 - 1.0 - 1.0 -10.3 - 28.8

Age 29 - Current Season
61.3 - 18.7 - 9.4 - 1.2 - 1.3 - 9.3 - 25.5


How about per 36 totals

Points - Rebounds - Assists - Steals - Blocks - Turnovers

Age 23
24/12.3/1.9/0.8/0.5/2.1

Age 25
25.9/12.4/4.4/0.8/0.5/2.5

Age 29
23/12/2.1/0.9/0.5/1.9


His actual on floor production, his rates, etc. are pretty similar on an actual per minute basis.  He is playing less minutes and taking less shots, but is scoring more per shot.  He is rebounding at almost an identical percentage of available rebounds even with playing next to the best rebounding SF since Bird. 

The reality is numbers diminish when you go from a #1 option to a #2 or #3 option.  Ask Chris Bosh how that went.  I mean his last year in Toronto Bosh was a 24/11/2.5 player.  His time in Miami with James he was basically a 17/7/1.5 player (getting worse every season) to a low of basically 16/6.5/1 and then James leaves and Bosh jumps back up to 21/7/2. 

Heck even former MVP's who join more talented teams see their production drop.  Curry dropped 5 ppg when Durant joined him.  Durant dropped 3 ppg.  James in his Miami move dropped 3 ppg.  But it doesn't mean any of those players aren't still just as good as they were before they had new teammates.

Kevin Love is the second option on the Cavs, and he’s averaging 18 ppg. If he’s capable of playing like a top-10 player, why isn’t he? He’s scoring less as a second option than he did as a third option last season.
He is playing 28 mpg, down from 31.4 mpg.  He is actually scoring more per minute this year then he was last year.  His minutes are down in a large part because the Cavs were a mess and had a lot of blowouts (in both directions) and he had the illness game of 3 minutes and the injury game of 5 minutes (he goes up a full minute if you take those two games out).

Shouldn’t he step up his production in the absence of Kyrie? Why hasn’t he if he’s a latent superstar?
He did step up his production.  You just keep ignoring that he is actually a more productive player this year then he was last year or at any time previously in Cleveland.  He is playing less minutes because the Cavs were a mess. 

For more proof of that mess, Lebron didn't jump his production.  He is a nearly identical player on a per minute basis this year as he was last year (and he is playing nearly identical minutes).  Shouldn't the best player in the world see a production spike when the 2nd best player leaves the team?

He’s averaging 1.1 points more and 1.2 rebounds / 0.2 assists less per 100 possessions. You call that stepping up in the absence of Kyrie?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: wdleehi on February 12, 2018, 10:13:45 AM
How long till teams adjust to the new Cavs strength's and weaknesses? 



Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: green_bballers13 on February 12, 2018, 10:25:37 AM
How long till teams adjust to the new Cavs strength's and weaknesses?

Until the NBA championship.

I love the Celtics, but they're 3rd in the East behind CLE and TOR
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 12, 2018, 10:26:38 AM
It's obvious IT performed better last year than Kevin Love this year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Love&player_id2_select=Kevin+Love&y2=2018&player_id2=loveke01&idx=players

Maybe what Moranis was getting at is that an entire NBA team (top to bottom, offense, defense)  wasn't designed around Kevin Love like it was for IT and he could perform similarly if that were the case. I think that I would probably agree with that because Love has consistently been regarded as a top 30 player (sometimes 20, 10, 5). IT had one season in which he was maybe top 10. The evidence strongly points to ITs success being more the system than the player and that Love is an actual star.
This is basically what I've been arguing.  That the stats don't actually tell you who a better player is.  Kevin Love is a better player than Isaiah Thomas and he has been every single year IT has been in the league, despite the fact that IT had a better statistical season last year.

Then Kevin Love is the biggest underachiever in recent memory.  Players are measured in achievement and production, not some unrealized potential.
Production Rates

TS% - RB% - AST% - STL% - BLK% - TOV% - USG%

Age 23 - 6th in MVP voting season
56.8 - 19.0 - 10.0 - 1.1 - 0.9 - 9.2 - 28.8

Age 25 - last year in Minn
59.1 - 18.7 - 21.4 - 1.0 - 1.0 -10.3 - 28.8

Age 29 - Current Season
61.3 - 18.7 - 9.4 - 1.2 - 1.3 - 9.3 - 25.5


How about per 36 totals

Points - Rebounds - Assists - Steals - Blocks - Turnovers

Age 23
24/12.3/1.9/0.8/0.5/2.1

Age 25
25.9/12.4/4.4/0.8/0.5/2.5

Age 29
23/12/2.1/0.9/0.5/1.9


His actual on floor production, his rates, etc. are pretty similar on an actual per minute basis.  He is playing less minutes and taking less shots, but is scoring more per shot.  He is rebounding at almost an identical percentage of available rebounds even with playing next to the best rebounding SF since Bird. 

The reality is numbers diminish when you go from a #1 option to a #2 or #3 option.  Ask Chris Bosh how that went.  I mean his last year in Toronto Bosh was a 24/11/2.5 player.  His time in Miami with James he was basically a 17/7/1.5 player (getting worse every season) to a low of basically 16/6.5/1 and then James leaves and Bosh jumps back up to 21/7/2. 

Heck even former MVP's who join more talented teams see their production drop.  Curry dropped 5 ppg when Durant joined him.  Durant dropped 3 ppg.  James in his Miami move dropped 3 ppg.  But it doesn't mean any of those players aren't still just as good as they were before they had new teammates.

Kevin Love is the second option on the Cavs, and he’s averaging 18 ppg. If he’s capable of playing like a top-10 player, why isn’t he? He’s scoring less as a second option than he did as a third option last season.
He is playing 28 mpg, down from 31.4 mpg.  He is actually scoring more per minute this year then he was last year.  His minutes are down in a large part because the Cavs were a mess and had a lot of blowouts (in both directions) and he had the illness game of 3 minutes and the injury game of 5 minutes (he goes up a full minute if you take those two games out).

Shouldn’t he step up his production in the absence of Kyrie? Why hasn’t he if he’s a latent superstar?
He did step up his production.  You just keep ignoring that he is actually a more productive player this year then he was last year or at any time previously in Cleveland.  He is playing less minutes because the Cavs were a mess. 

For more proof of that mess, Lebron didn't jump his production.  He is a nearly identical player on a per minute basis this year as he was last year (and he is playing nearly identical minutes).  Shouldn't the best player in the world see a production spike when the 2nd best player leaves the team?

He’s averaging 1.1 points more and 1.2 rebounds / 0.2 assists less per 100 possessions. You call that stepping up in the absence of Kyrie?
More of a step up then Lebron, who I would assume you have no problem claiming is at worst a top 3 player in the world.

The Cavs were a complete and total disaster for much of the season, and despite that Love is scoring more on less shots.  His PER is up nearly 2 points.  He is turning it over less.  his WS/48 are up .024 (which is fairly significant).
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Green-18 on February 12, 2018, 10:27:05 AM
How long till teams adjust to the new Cavs strength's and weaknesses?

Aside from experience I don't believe the Cavs got weaker in any way.  They are younger, more athletic, and have better perimeter shooting.  It's not like the defense can get any worse.  I also believe that George Hill gives them a better chance of getting stops in crunch time during the playoffs.  J.R. Smith also proved to be a very solid defender during the title run in 2016.  There's no reason he can't replicate the same effort if properly motivated.

As I have mentioned many times before, it all comes down to LeBron James at the end of the day.  As long as he's happy then I have a hard time seeing the Cavs getting bounced until the Finals.  It's such a boring but true narrative.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: wdleehi on February 12, 2018, 10:37:00 AM
How long till teams adjust to the new Cavs strength's and weaknesses?

Until the NBA championship.

I love the Celtics, but they're 3rd in the East behind CLE and TOR


Because the new look Cavs played one game?   
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 12, 2018, 10:42:39 AM
It's obvious IT performed better last year than Kevin Love this year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Isaiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isaiah+Thomas&y1=2017&player_id1=thomais02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Love&player_id2_select=Kevin+Love&y2=2018&player_id2=loveke01&idx=players

Maybe what Moranis was getting at is that an entire NBA team (top to bottom, offense, defense)  wasn't designed around Kevin Love like it was for IT and he could perform similarly if that were the case. I think that I would probably agree with that because Love has consistently been regarded as a top 30 player (sometimes 20, 10, 5). IT had one season in which he was maybe top 10. The evidence strongly points to ITs success being more the system than the player and that Love is an actual star.
This is basically what I've been arguing.  That the stats don't actually tell you who a better player is.  Kevin Love is a better player than Isaiah Thomas and he has been every single year IT has been in the league, despite the fact that IT had a better statistical season last year.

Then Kevin Love is the biggest underachiever in recent memory.  Players are measured in achievement and production, not some unrealized potential.
Production Rates

TS% - RB% - AST% - STL% - BLK% - TOV% - USG%

Age 23 - 6th in MVP voting season
56.8 - 19.0 - 10.0 - 1.1 - 0.9 - 9.2 - 28.8

Age 25 - last year in Minn
59.1 - 18.7 - 21.4 - 1.0 - 1.0 -10.3 - 28.8

Age 29 - Current Season
61.3 - 18.7 - 9.4 - 1.2 - 1.3 - 9.3 - 25.5


How about per 36 totals

Points - Rebounds - Assists - Steals - Blocks - Turnovers

Age 23
24/12.3/1.9/0.8/0.5/2.1

Age 25
25.9/12.4/4.4/0.8/0.5/2.5

Age 29
23/12/2.1/0.9/0.5/1.9


His actual on floor production, his rates, etc. are pretty similar on an actual per minute basis.  He is playing less minutes and taking less shots, but is scoring more per shot.  He is rebounding at almost an identical percentage of available rebounds even with playing next to the best rebounding SF since Bird. 

The reality is numbers diminish when you go from a #1 option to a #2 or #3 option.  Ask Chris Bosh how that went.  I mean his last year in Toronto Bosh was a 24/11/2.5 player.  His time in Miami with James he was basically a 17/7/1.5 player (getting worse every season) to a low of basically 16/6.5/1 and then James leaves and Bosh jumps back up to 21/7/2. 

Heck even former MVP's who join more talented teams see their production drop.  Curry dropped 5 ppg when Durant joined him.  Durant dropped 3 ppg.  James in his Miami move dropped 3 ppg.  But it doesn't mean any of those players aren't still just as good as they were before they had new teammates.

Kevin Love is the second option on the Cavs, and he’s averaging 18 ppg. If he’s capable of playing like a top-10 player, why isn’t he? He’s scoring less as a second option than he did as a third option last season.
He is playing 28 mpg, down from 31.4 mpg.  He is actually scoring more per minute this year then he was last year.  His minutes are down in a large part because the Cavs were a mess and had a lot of blowouts (in both directions) and he had the illness game of 3 minutes and the injury game of 5 minutes (he goes up a full minute if you take those two games out).

Shouldn’t he step up his production in the absence of Kyrie? Why hasn’t he if he’s a latent superstar?
He did step up his production.  You just keep ignoring that he is actually a more productive player this year then he was last year or at any time previously in Cleveland.  He is playing less minutes because the Cavs were a mess. 

For more proof of that mess, Lebron didn't jump his production.  He is a nearly identical player on a per minute basis this year as he was last year (and he is playing nearly identical minutes).  Shouldn't the best player in the world see a production spike when the 2nd best player leaves the team?

He’s averaging 1.1 points more and 1.2 rebounds / 0.2 assists less per 100 possessions. You call that stepping up in the absence of Kyrie?
More of a step up then Lebron, who I would assume you have no problem claiming is at worst a top 3 player in the world.

The Cavs were a complete and total disaster for much of the season, and despite that Love is scoring more on less shots.  His PER is up nearly 2 points.  He is turning it over less.  his WS/48 are up .024 (which is fairly significant).

Why would Lebron’s production go up? He’s seeing more double-teams and fewer easy shots because he no longer has an elite scorer playing next to him.

You can’t argue “Love’s production went down because he became a third option” while excusing his stagnant production when he was asked to be a #2.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Big333223 on February 12, 2018, 10:45:23 AM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.

Wrong.

Isaiah was a Top-5 MVP candidate that averaged 29/6 and he made All-NBA 2nd team. Love had a great season but his defense wasn't elite either, and Isaiah's impact overall on the C's outweighs Kevin Love's impact on the Cavaliers.

To say Kevin Love's season last year > Isaiah's is honestly ridiculous to me. Even stats seem to disagree with that despite Isaiah also being horrible on defense (which is actually amazing to be honest - he did have a helluva year for us last year).
I said Love was better than IT. I never said Love this year or last year has had a better season than IT had last year.  There is a very big difference between those statemwnts

You said Love this year was better than IT last year. There’s no real objective support for that position. We judge players based upon results.

Yeah, this is a pretty wild argument to me. I know IT gets some hate around this board now, but arguing that Kevin Love is having a better season this year than IT had last year is... just wild.
Again I never argued Love was having a better season, I said he is a better player.  There is a very large difference between those two statements.

Actually, Roy wrote "Last year’s IT > this year’s Love" and you responded "no he wasn't".

If that's not what you meant, that's fine, but if there's confusion, it's because you wrote something you apparently don't believe.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: kozlodoev on February 12, 2018, 10:46:13 AM
How long till teams adjust to the new Cavs strength's and weaknesses?

Until the NBA championship.

I love the Celtics, but they're 3rd in the East behind CLE and TOR


Because the new look Cavs played one game?
No, it's because we're trending in the wrong direction, we seem to go down by 20 every other game, and every time we suit up against a rival in the East we're getting blown out. At this rate, I'm worried about WAS and MIL more than I'm about CLE and TOR.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 12, 2018, 11:12:58 AM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.

Wrong.

Isaiah was a Top-5 MVP candidate that averaged 29/6 and he made All-NBA 2nd team. Love had a great season but his defense wasn't elite either, and Isaiah's impact overall on the C's outweighs Kevin Love's impact on the Cavaliers.

To say Kevin Love's season last year > Isaiah's is honestly ridiculous to me. Even stats seem to disagree with that despite Isaiah also being horrible on defense (which is actually amazing to be honest - he did have a helluva year for us last year).
I said Love was better than IT. I never said Love this year or last year has had a better season than IT had last year.  There is a very big difference between those statemwnts

You said Love this year was better than IT last year. There’s no real objective support for that position. We judge players based upon results.

Yeah, this is a pretty wild argument to me. I know IT gets some hate around this board now, but arguing that Kevin Love is having a better season this year than IT had last year is... just wild.
Again I never argued Love was having a better season, I said he is a better player.  There is a very large difference between those two statements.

Actually, Roy wrote "Last year’s IT > this year’s Love" and you responded "no he wasn't".

If that's not what you meant, that's fine, but if there's confusion, it's because you wrote something you apparently don't believe.
He wrote that in response to my statement that Love was a better player than IT.  There is only possibly confusion if you don't read all of the posts in the quote.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Big333223 on February 12, 2018, 03:05:27 PM
The whole thing feels a little desperate to me. Which makes sense, the Cavs are desperate.

I think George Hill is going to be the X-Factor to this whole thing. If he keeps having the season he's been having, I don't see the Cavs making it out of the second round. If he was just bored in Sacramento and starts looking like he did last year in Utah, then he could be a nice compliment for Lebron and Love and then, who knows.
Hill is leading the league in 3pt percentage.  His numbers aren't much different from last season and he has been on a much worse team playing 5 mpg less.

So is he their 3rd best player? He is a far cry from Kevin Love (who obviously is now the Cavs second best player). This could help them win the east for sure, but I don't see how the Rockets or Warriors wouldn't sweep them (and probably the thunder in 5).
Love has been their 2nd best player all year.  I actually think they could be a better overall team than any time since Lebron has returned (except that first season when Love and Irving were injured in the playoffs) even though they have less top end talent.  They have a lot more cohesion and balance in the roster construction from top to bottom.  They got younger, more athletic, better defensively, with better shooters, and a roster that suits what James (and to a lesser extent Love) do well.  They have a very nice 2 deep rotation at every position (except center) and the players actually fit together well.  There will of course be games where they will miss what Irving can do offensively, but overall I think they might just be a better team (they will still almost certainly lose to the Warriors if they both get there, but they lost in 5 last year so that wouldn't be an unexpected result).  That of course assumes that Love returns and their roster actually gels and learns how to play together in the short time they have.  Those are two very big if's, but assuming both do actually happen, I'd be pretty surprised if the Cavs aren't in the Finals again.


this is just a hilarious take. Stars win in the NBA in the playoffs, not role-players. Celtics fans should know that of everyone because our team of gutty role-players and IT4 dragged the team all the way to the eastern conference finals where talent finally took over and we got wrecked.

look at the talent on even last years team, and to say this years has more is just a hot take. just Irving alone is worth more than those roleplayers. Unless you trust them to win you a game and get tough points..
you misunderstood my post.  So let me clarify,  James has always been Cleveland's best player.  He and Irving weren't a very good fit.  Their offense would often stagnant with them just taking turns doing their thing.  They had no real cohesion and they both often ignored each other and Love, who is a great offensive player in his own right.   If this team makes it work, it will have significantly better cohesion and a much clearer sense of team and identity.  It is James' team, James' offense, etc.  Obviously there are times where Irving's ability to get a basket will be misssed, but overall the team is constructed to better utilize its best player and in the process also better utilize Love.  It has mich better defense overall as well and when the Cavs lose, they lose on that end of the floor.

You are asking Lebron to be superhuman every night(which is entirely possible) and not have any off games.

lets not forget Kyrie Irving won them their first championship with his shot over Curry or they may very well have lost in 7 games.

I just think the NBA is a game where superstars dominate. and we saw that last year when a scrappy "team" of role-players in the celtics got steamrolled by a team that basically just played lebron/kyrie iso

I would have more faith in these guys gelling right away if the team had an actual coach. and not Tyron lue
James and Love are both better players than anyone on last year's Celtics. To compare them is just silly

Last year’s IT > this year’s Love.
no he wasn't. He scored more on slightly better shooting efficiency but IT was not a better player than Love. Love is a mich more complete player on both ends of the floor.

Wrong.

Isaiah was a Top-5 MVP candidate that averaged 29/6 and he made All-NBA 2nd team. Love had a great season but his defense wasn't elite either, and Isaiah's impact overall on the C's outweighs Kevin Love's impact on the Cavaliers.

To say Kevin Love's season last year > Isaiah's is honestly ridiculous to me. Even stats seem to disagree with that despite Isaiah also being horrible on defense (which is actually amazing to be honest - he did have a helluva year for us last year).
I said Love was better than IT. I never said Love this year or last year has had a better season than IT had last year.  There is a very big difference between those statemwnts

You said Love this year was better than IT last year. There’s no real objective support for that position. We judge players based upon results.

Yeah, this is a pretty wild argument to me. I know IT gets some hate around this board now, but arguing that Kevin Love is having a better season this year than IT had last year is... just wild.
Again I never argued Love was having a better season, I said he is a better player.  There is a very large difference between those two statements.

Actually, Roy wrote "Last year’s IT > this year’s Love" and you responded "no he wasn't".

If that's not what you meant, that's fine, but if there's confusion, it's because you wrote something you apparently don't believe.
He wrote that in response to my statement that Love was a better player than IT.  There is only possibly confusion if you don't read all of the posts in the quote.

I'll refer you to my previous post.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: No Nickname on February 14, 2018, 04:11:48 PM
Anyone who thinks the Cavs are suddenly MUCH better due to their recent trades has been duped again by LeBron. That due is so calculating.

He stopped trying weeks ago. His team was playing horribly because of HIM. Did everyone forget his putrid effort these past few weeks?

He wanted to force the Cavs into a trade. And now he’s playing inspired, team ball again. You think he wasn’t going balls out the last two games to try and embarrass IT and also to show that only HE can turn these new guys into winners?  He gave more effort and moved the ball more than he’s ever done. Not that stupid ISO LeBron and everyone else just get ready for a catch and shoot jumper offense they’ve been running for weeks.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 14, 2018, 04:15:47 PM
Obviously James' effort has been better the last 4 games, but who was he supposed to be passing the ball to before then (especially with Love out).  Korver can only take so many shots before he is guarded and no one else was hitting the broad side of a barn.  Crowder and Thomas were just awful.  Smith was very inconsistent.  Wade and Rose have never been good shooters.  None of those guys could defend anyone, so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on February 14, 2018, 04:19:09 PM
Anyone who thinks the Cavs are suddenly MUCH better due to their recent trades has been duped again by LeBron. That due is so calculating.

He stopped trying weeks ago. His team was playing horribly because of HIM. Did everyone forget his putrid effort these past few weeks?

He wanted to force the Cavs into a trade. And now he’s playing inspired, team ball again. You think he wasn’t going balls out the last two games to try and embarrass IT and also to show that only HE can turn these new guys into winners?  He gave more effort and moved the ball more than he’s ever done. Not that stupid ISO LeBron and everyone else just get ready for a catch and shoot jumper offense they’ve been running for weeks.

I think they are better, but its for obvious reasons.

1. Hill doesn't mind being sidekick to Lebron. Thomas did. And Thomas wasn't that good.
2. Clarkson is actually playing games. Shumpert didn't.
3. Nance is a much more versatile and active player than Frye.
4. Hood is a better scorer than Crowder.

They simply upgraded their roster. I still think their play is likely to come down to earth. I still think the Celtics can beat them in a 7 game series.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 14, 2018, 04:43:56 PM
Obviously James' effort has been better the last 4 games, but who was he supposed to be passing the ball to before then (especially with Love out).  Korver can only take so many shots before he is guarded and no one else was hitting the broad side of a barn.  Crowder and Thomas were just awful.  Smith was very inconsistent.  Wade and Rose have never been good shooters.  None of those guys could defend anyone, so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance.

wait you are saying Lebron shouldn't have tried on defense cause he was playing with bad defensive players?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: No Nickname on February 14, 2018, 05:03:30 PM
Obviously James' effort has been better the last 4 games, but who was he supposed to be passing the ball to before then (especially with Love out).  Korver can only take so many shots before he is guarded and no one else was hitting the broad side of a barn.  Crowder and Thomas were just awful.  Smith was very inconsistent.  Wade and Rose have never been good shooters.  None of those guys could defend anyone, so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance.

wait you are saying Lebron shouldn't have tried on defense cause he was playing with bad defensive players?

I couldn’t stop laughing at that one too.

Oh and Smith goes from being “very inconsistent” to shooting 80% his last two games?  So that’s why LeBron didn’t want to play hard before? Because Smith was inconsistent? I’m confused.

LeBron enjoyed standing at half court watching his teammates go 4 on 5 at times. Of course they were going to look horrible. But now he’s winning because the new players are so good? Sure some of them may be, but LeBron has intentionally flipped the switch again because it suits him and his freaking ego.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: kozlodoev on February 14, 2018, 05:16:19 PM
In the meanwhile, the Cavs go on scoring ~120 a game, and Brad is still mulling how to integrate Greg Monroe on a team that has just 3 other rotation-caliber big men. It'd be funny if it wasn't a little sad.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: footey on February 14, 2018, 05:42:53 PM
Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: jambr380 on February 14, 2018, 05:50:42 PM
Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

GM of the year?! This might have re-energized Lebron (for who knows how long - don't forget the Cavs had a 13 game win streak earlier in the year), but that award usually goes to a GM who has a noticeably better team than the previous year. I think we can all objectively say that is not the case.

Koby Altman may have moved up from [literally] last place on the list, but look no further than our own Danny Ainge if you are looking for front runners for the award.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 14, 2018, 05:53:55 PM
Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

This is the biggest overreaction I have seen to two regular season games on my 10+ years on the forum.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 14, 2018, 05:58:26 PM
Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

GM of the year?! This might have re-energized Lebron (for who knows how long - don't forget the Cavs had a 13 game win streak earlier in the year), but that award usually goes to a GM who has a noticeably better team than the previous year. I think we can all objectively say that is not the case.

Koby Altman may have moved up from [literally] last place on the list, but look no further than our own Danny Ainge if you are looking for front runners for the award.

Yeah, the Kyrie trade counts in his annual evaluation.  The Cavs are worse now than they were last year.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: mctyson on February 14, 2018, 06:09:07 PM
Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

Clarkson and Nance were bench players on a lottery team.  Hood was a toss away.  Give me a break.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: JBcat on February 14, 2018, 07:11:36 PM
Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

Clarkson and Nance were bench players on a lottery team.  Hood was a toss away.  Give me a break.

Just because the Lakers aren’t a top heavy team in all star players isn’t their fault.  They are part of the reason the Lakers have won some more games than many expected.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: RodyTur10 on February 14, 2018, 07:19:43 PM
Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

Clarkson and Nance were bench players on a lottery team.  Hood was a toss away.  Give me a break.

Just because the Lakers aren’t a top heavy team in all star players isn’t their fault.  They are part of the reason the Lakers have won some more games than many expected.

I agree. In fact Clarkson was the best player on the Lakers this year. And you could argue that Hill was the best player of the Kings. So it shouldn't be that surprising they are playing so well now they have a well-defined role on the team.

Clarkson just wasn't part of the Lakers' plans from the beginning. Didn't matter how well he performed. Same goes for Randle.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 15, 2018, 06:41:54 AM
Obviously James' effort has been better the last 4 games, but who was he supposed to be passing the ball to before then (especially with Love out).  Korver can only take so many shots before he is guarded and no one else was hitting the broad side of a barn.  Crowder and Thomas were just awful.  Smith was very inconsistent.  Wade and Rose have never been good shooters.  None of those guys could defend anyone, so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance.

wait you are saying Lebron shouldn't have tried on defense cause he was playing with bad defensive players?
I'm saying it is a long season and olayers pace themselves throughout.  If time and time again your effort is futile it is only natural that over time ypur effort diminishes.  Look at the Warriors this year.  They keep losing to significantly inferior teams in large part because of their effort.  Kerr has been talking about that for the better part of a month and it why he let them coach themselves i.e. to try and get them more focused.  To expect a player like LeBron to be 100% on night in and night out is silly especially when his teammates either aren't giving the effort or just aren't good enough.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Celtics4ever on February 15, 2018, 07:23:32 AM
Quote
so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance.

I think he is probably the team captain no?   Aren't those guys supposed to set an example.   LeBron deserves his share of the blame for the early debacle that was the Cavs.  His apologists like yourself seem to think he never deserves a share of the blame.

Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 15, 2018, 08:21:26 AM
Quote
so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance.

I think he is probably the team captain no?   Aren't those guys supposed to set an example.   LeBron deserves his share of the blame for the early debacle that was the Cavs.  His apologists like yourself seem to think he never deserves a share of the blame.
of course he deserves some blame for his lack of effort, but no one was providing effort because that locker room was a mess.  They just didn't get alone.  Once Thomas was extricated a lot of the ill will dissipated. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 15, 2018, 08:30:28 AM
Quote
so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance.

I think he is probably the team captain no?   Aren't those guys supposed to set an example.   LeBron deserves his share of the blame for the early debacle that was the Cavs.  His apologists like yourself seem to think he never deserves a share of the blame.
of course he deserves some blame for his lack of effort, but no one was providing effort because that locker room was a mess.  They just didn't get alone.  Once Thomas was extricated a lot of the ill will dissipated.

The Cavs had issues long before IT was activated, though. He just became a convenient scapegoat.

Lebron should take accountability for his lack of leadership. He basically gave up for a few weeks.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 15, 2018, 08:49:24 AM
Quote
so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance.

I think he is probably the team captain no?   Aren't those guys supposed to set an example.   LeBron deserves his share of the blame for the early debacle that was the Cavs.  His apologists like yourself seem to think he never deserves a share of the blame.
of course he deserves some blame for his lack of effort, but no one was providing effort because that locker room was a mess.  They just didn't get alone.  Once Thomas was extricated a lot of the ill will dissipated.

The Cavs had issues long before IT was activated, though. He just became a convenient scapegoat.

Lebron should take accountability for his lack of leadership. He basically gave up for a few weeks.

Did bird every give up for weeks on end at any point? I was just a kid when he was playing so wasn't really quite as observant back that.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 15, 2018, 09:18:55 AM
Quote
so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance.

I think he is probably the team captain no?   Aren't those guys supposed to set an example.   LeBron deserves his share of the blame for the early debacle that was the Cavs.  His apologists like yourself seem to think he never deserves a share of the blame.
of course he deserves some blame for his lack of effort, but no one was providing effort because that locker room was a mess.  They just didn't get alone.  Once Thomas was extricated a lot of the ill will dissipated.

The Cavs had issues long before IT was activated, though. He just became a convenient scapegoat.

Lebron should take accountability for his lack of leadership. He basically gave up for a few weeks.
Cavs were 24-12 when IT played his first game.  They were 31-22 after the Minnesota game which was IT's last game.  So from IT's first game to his last game they were 7-10.

The Cavs obviously had some problems that pre-dated IT i.e. lack of shooters, older players, lack of defenders, etc., but they were a much worse team after IT started playing both because he was awful on the court and because he was constantly yapping causing all sorts of locker-room problems. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 15, 2018, 09:39:07 AM
Quote
so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance.

I think he is probably the team captain no?   Aren't those guys supposed to set an example.   LeBron deserves his share of the blame for the early debacle that was the Cavs.  His apologists like yourself seem to think he never deserves a share of the blame.
of course he deserves some blame for his lack of effort, but no one was providing effort because that locker room was a mess.  They just didn't get alone.  Once Thomas was extricated a lot of the ill will dissipated.

The Cavs had issues long before IT was activated, though. He just became a convenient scapegoat.

Lebron should take accountability for his lack of leadership. He basically gave up for a few weeks.
Cavs were 24-12 when IT played his first game.  They were 31-22 after the Minnesota game which was IT's last game.  So from IT's first game to his last game they were 7-10.

The Cavs obviously had some problems that pre-dated IT i.e. lack of shooters, older players, lack of defenders, etc., but they were a much worse team after IT started playing both because he was awful on the court and because he was constantly yapping causing all sorts of locker-room problems.

They lost 4 of 5 prior to him being activated, though, and were a cumulative 1-6 starting December 25 in games IT didn’t play.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: green_bballers13 on February 15, 2018, 09:43:11 AM
The Cavs were becoming a mess with and without IT. He wasn't a good fit for that squad. CLE looks like they were able to right the ship with these decent role players.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 15, 2018, 09:53:03 AM
Quote
so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance.

I think he is probably the team captain no?   Aren't those guys supposed to set an example.   LeBron deserves his share of the blame for the early debacle that was the Cavs.  His apologists like yourself seem to think he never deserves a share of the blame.
of course he deserves some blame for his lack of effort, but no one was providing effort because that locker room was a mess.  They just didn't get alone.  Once Thomas was extricated a lot of the ill will dissipated.

The Cavs had issues long before IT was activated, though. He just became a convenient scapegoat.

Lebron should take accountability for his lack of leadership. He basically gave up for a few weeks.
Cavs were 24-12 when IT played his first game.  They were 31-22 after the Minnesota game which was IT's last game.  So from IT's first game to his last game they were 7-10.

The Cavs obviously had some problems that pre-dated IT i.e. lack of shooters, older players, lack of defenders, etc., but they were a much worse team after IT started playing both because he was awful on the court and because he was constantly yapping causing all sorts of locker-room problems.

They lost 4 of 5 prior to him being activated, though, and were a cumulative 1-6 starting December 25 in games IT didn’t play.
sure and they were 18-1 in the 19 games before that 5 game mostly road stretch.  I'm in the Cleveland area, IT was by far the biggest problem with the team because of the locker-room problems he was causing.  That is all the sports talk was talking about.  That locker-room was a disaster and IT was the main cause of the problems.  The reality is, no matter the profession, when you don't like going to work because you don't get along with your co-workers, your work suffers.  When you do like going to work you work harder, longer, better, etc.  It will always be that way in all walks of life.  IT was the biggest problem with the Cavs the last month and a half.  The whole team just has a lot more life and energy because IT isn't there.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 15, 2018, 10:02:47 AM
Quote
so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance.

I think he is probably the team captain no?   Aren't those guys supposed to set an example.   LeBron deserves his share of the blame for the early debacle that was the Cavs.  His apologists like yourself seem to think he never deserves a share of the blame.
of course he deserves some blame for his lack of effort, but no one was providing effort because that locker room was a mess.  They just didn't get alone.  Once Thomas was extricated a lot of the ill will dissipated.

The Cavs had issues long before IT was activated, though. He just became a convenient scapegoat.

Lebron should take accountability for his lack of leadership. He basically gave up for a few weeks.
Cavs were 24-12 when IT played his first game.  They were 31-22 after the Minnesota game which was IT's last game.  So from IT's first game to his last game they were 7-10.

The Cavs obviously had some problems that pre-dated IT i.e. lack of shooters, older players, lack of defenders, etc., but they were a much worse team after IT started playing both because he was awful on the court and because he was constantly yapping causing all sorts of locker-room problems.

They lost 4 of 5 prior to him being activated, though, and were a cumulative 1-6 starting December 25 in games IT didn’t play.
sure and they were 18-1 in the 19 games before that 5 game mostly road stretch.  I'm in the Cleveland area, IT was by far the biggest problem with the team because of the locker-room problems he was causing.  That is all the sports talk was talking about.  That locker-room was a disaster and IT was the main cause of the problems.  The reality is, no matter the profession, when you don't like going to work because you don't get along with your co-workers, your work suffers.  When you do like going to work you work harder, longer, better, etc.  It will always be that way in all walks of life.  IT was the biggest problem with the Cavs the last month and a half.  The whole team just has a lot more life and energy because IT isn't there.

Sports talk isn’t all that persuasive to me.

The team slumped without IT. That’s an undeniable fact.

Lebron made no effort to bring the team together. He seemed more invested in taking himself out of the offense, going through the motions on defense, and cussing out executives. That’s without even getting into his detiorated relationship with Kyrie, and the multiple year isolation of Kevin Love.

At what point does Lebron get even an once of blame?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 15, 2018, 10:04:42 AM
Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

GM of the year?! This might have re-energized Lebron (for who knows how long - don't forget the Cavs had a 13 game win streak earlier in the year), but that award usually goes to a GM who has a noticeably better team than the previous year. I think we can all objectively say that is not the case.

Koby Altman may have moved up from [literally] last place on the list, but look no further than our own Danny Ainge if you are looking for front runners for the award.

Yeah, the Kyrie trade counts in his annual evaluation.  The Cavs are worse now than they were last year.
Are you really so sure of that?  Yes, they don't have as much top end talent, and top end talent often is the most important thing, but it doesn't always work that way.  Irving and James weren't a great fit offensively as they are both incredibly ball dominant offensive players and their offense would often just be a your turn/my turn type of offense, which generally didn't yield the best results, especially for the other players on the team.  Obviously, there will be times when not having Irving's ability to create a shot out of nothing will be a problem for the Cavs, but I wouldn't be so sure the team this year won't end up being better than the Cavs team from last year.  They have a much more cohesive unit, have a much younger and more athletic bench that not only has better shooters, but also much better defenders.  Remember the Cavs bench in the playoffs last year was Kyle Korver, Richard Jefferson, Deron Williams, and Iman Shumpert with guys like Derrick Williams, Dahntay Jones, Channing Frye, and James Jones playing here and there.  You don't necessarily win playoff series with your bench, but you can certainly lose them.  And for as great as Irving is, he was -32 against the Warriors in the 5 games, while James was -7.  The Cavs will only be as good as James, and I wouldn't bet against the current group being a better fit with James and thus making James even better. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Monkhouse on February 15, 2018, 10:07:58 AM
Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

Clarkson and Nance were bench players on a lottery team.  Hood was a toss away.  Give me a break.

Pretty telling when someone like Royce O'Neale who played well in sparingly few minutes, managed to convince the Jazz brass that he was the clear cut choice over Hood.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 15, 2018, 10:09:30 AM
Quote
so why would you expect James to make the defensive effort when at least 3 of the other players could do whatever they wanted without resistance.

I think he is probably the team captain no?   Aren't those guys supposed to set an example.   LeBron deserves his share of the blame for the early debacle that was the Cavs.  His apologists like yourself seem to think he never deserves a share of the blame.
of course he deserves some blame for his lack of effort, but no one was providing effort because that locker room was a mess.  They just didn't get alone.  Once Thomas was extricated a lot of the ill will dissipated.

The Cavs had issues long before IT was activated, though. He just became a convenient scapegoat.

Lebron should take accountability for his lack of leadership. He basically gave up for a few weeks.
Cavs were 24-12 when IT played his first game.  They were 31-22 after the Minnesota game which was IT's last game.  So from IT's first game to his last game they were 7-10.

The Cavs obviously had some problems that pre-dated IT i.e. lack of shooters, older players, lack of defenders, etc., but they were a much worse team after IT started playing both because he was awful on the court and because he was constantly yapping causing all sorts of locker-room problems.

They lost 4 of 5 prior to him being activated, though, and were a cumulative 1-6 starting December 25 in games IT didn’t play.
sure and they were 18-1 in the 19 games before that 5 game mostly road stretch.  I'm in the Cleveland area, IT was by far the biggest problem with the team because of the locker-room problems he was causing.  That is all the sports talk was talking about.  That locker-room was a disaster and IT was the main cause of the problems.  The reality is, no matter the profession, when you don't like going to work because you don't get along with your co-workers, your work suffers.  When you do like going to work you work harder, longer, better, etc.  It will always be that way in all walks of life.  IT was the biggest problem with the Cavs the last month and a half.  The whole team just has a lot more life and energy because IT isn't there.

Sports talk isn’t all that persuasive to me.

The team slumped without IT. That’s an undeniable fact.

Lebron made no effort to bring the team together. He seemed more invested in taking himself out of the offense, going through the motions on defense, and cussing out executives. That’s without even getting into his detiorated relationship with Kyrie, and the multiple year isolation of Kevin Love.

At what point does Lebron get even an once of blame?

I think with most non-Cleveland fans he gets a lot. I think players around the NBA are seeing how much air Lebron sucks out of the room and it is becoming less appealing to play with him. We are at 2 all stars from last years game that didn't want to play with him in the last 9 months. Kevin love doesn't look thrilled either. He is going to have to tone down his prima Donna routine as he ages or it is going to be an ugly twilight to his career
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: kozlodoev on February 15, 2018, 10:12:47 AM
Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

Clarkson and Nance were bench players on a lottery team.  Hood was a toss away.  Give me a break.

Pretty telling when someone like Royce O'Neale who played well in sparingly few minutes, managed to convince the Jazz brass that he was the clear cut choice over Hood.
Well, Hood has missed about 60 of the last 140 games with various injuries, so there's that.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 15, 2018, 11:03:05 AM
Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

GM of the year?! This might have re-energized Lebron (for who knows how long - don't forget the Cavs had a 13 game win streak earlier in the year), but that award usually goes to a GM who has a noticeably better team than the previous year. I think we can all objectively say that is not the case.

Koby Altman may have moved up from [literally] last place on the list, but look no further than our own Danny Ainge if you are looking for front runners for the award.

Yeah, the Kyrie trade counts in his annual evaluation.  The Cavs are worse now than they were last year.
Are you really so sure of that?  Yes, they don't have as much top end talent, and top end talent often is the most important thing, but it doesn't always work that way.  Irving and James weren't a great fit offensively as they are both incredibly ball dominant offensive players and their offense would often just be a your turn/my turn type of offense, which generally didn't yield the best results, especially for the other players on the team.  Obviously, there will be times when not having Irving's ability to create a shot out of nothing will be a problem for the Cavs, but I wouldn't be so sure the team this year won't end up being better than the Cavs team from last year.  They have a much more cohesive unit, have a much younger and more athletic bench that not only has better shooters, but also much better defenders.  Remember the Cavs bench in the playoffs last year was Kyle Korver, Richard Jefferson, Deron Williams, and Iman Shumpert with guys like Derrick Williams, Dahntay Jones, Channing Frye, and James Jones playing here and there.  You don't necessarily win playoff series with your bench, but you can certainly lose them.  And for as great as Irving is, he was -32 against the Warriors in the 5 games, while James was -7.  The Cavs will only be as good as James, and I wouldn't bet against the current group being a better fit with James and thus making James even better.

I’m sure of it, yes. 

The Cavs cruised into the Finals at 12-1 in the East last year.  Replacing Kyrie’s 26 ppg will be easier said than done.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 15, 2018, 11:24:13 AM
Cavs have improved a lot since the trade, in part because it has re-energized Lebron, and who can blame him.

I really like their second unit.  Always liked Clarkson and Nance.  Hood was a steal.  GM of the year just on this trade alone.

GM of the year?! This might have re-energized Lebron (for who knows how long - don't forget the Cavs had a 13 game win streak earlier in the year), but that award usually goes to a GM who has a noticeably better team than the previous year. I think we can all objectively say that is not the case.

Koby Altman may have moved up from [literally] last place on the list, but look no further than our own Danny Ainge if you are looking for front runners for the award.

Yeah, the Kyrie trade counts in his annual evaluation.  The Cavs are worse now than they were last year.
Are you really so sure of that?  Yes, they don't have as much top end talent, and top end talent often is the most important thing, but it doesn't always work that way.  Irving and James weren't a great fit offensively as they are both incredibly ball dominant offensive players and their offense would often just be a your turn/my turn type of offense, which generally didn't yield the best results, especially for the other players on the team.  Obviously, there will be times when not having Irving's ability to create a shot out of nothing will be a problem for the Cavs, but I wouldn't be so sure the team this year won't end up being better than the Cavs team from last year.  They have a much more cohesive unit, have a much younger and more athletic bench that not only has better shooters, but also much better defenders.  Remember the Cavs bench in the playoffs last year was Kyle Korver, Richard Jefferson, Deron Williams, and Iman Shumpert with guys like Derrick Williams, Dahntay Jones, Channing Frye, and James Jones playing here and there.  You don't necessarily win playoff series with your bench, but you can certainly lose them.  And for as great as Irving is, he was -32 against the Warriors in the 5 games, while James was -7.  The Cavs will only be as good as James, and I wouldn't bet against the current group being a better fit with James and thus making James even better.

I’m sure of it, yes. 

The Cavs cruised into the Finals at 12-1 in the East last year.  Replacing Kyrie’s 26 ppg will be easier said than done.
I don't think it will be as hard as you think as the Cavs just weren't a balanced scoring team, especially in the playoffs, with Lebron at 33, Irving at 26, and Love at 17, after that they had Thompson and Smith at just over 8 and Korver at just below 6. 

I'd expect Love to go up into the low 20's, picking up 3 or 4 ppg pretty easily (and his 16.8 was on just 12.1 shots, so he was efficient just not enough shots).  I would expect Hood, Clarkson, and Hill to all be over 10 a game and Smith might very well be as well.  Korver will likely see a boost and Nance and Thompson collectively will be well above 8.  This current team is going to be able to spread the wealth around a lot more and won't be so reliant on James or Irving playing the ISO ball they did so well for 3 years.

EDIT: What is odd is the Cavs would currently play the exact same 3 teams if the playoffs started today and their opponent wasn't upset along the way.  They would play Boston in the ECS and Toronto in the ECF, so a reverse of last year, but Indiana is currently their round 1 opponent just like last year.  I doubt they make it through with only 1 loss, but I honestly don't see Indiana challenging them at all and without Hayward don't think Boston is more than a 5 or 6 game series.  Toronto is a lot better than last year, but I still don't see them beating a Lebron James led team in the playoffs.  Let's say that is 6 games with Cleveland clinching at home.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 15, 2018, 12:03:39 PM
I feel like we are approaching 10% of all posts on this forum talking about how great the cavs are and everything with them is perfect. Good grief.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on February 15, 2018, 12:22:16 PM
I feel like we are approaching 10% of all posts on this forum talking about how great the cavs are and everything with them is perfect. Good grief.

It was just as bad in the opposite direction before that 1 game, though.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 15, 2018, 01:31:38 PM
I feel like we are approaching 10% of all posts on this forum talking about how great the cavs are and everything with them is perfect. Good grief.

It was just as bad in the opposite direction before that 1 game, though.

I think it's pretty natural for fans of a team to take delight in the struggles of a rival. It's pretty much part of the definition of fandom. Reading the constant worship of said rival on a fan board is not.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Birdman on February 15, 2018, 01:49:59 PM
Ugh..still  can't believe Danny didn't get Evans..went off again last night
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 15, 2018, 02:08:06 PM
Ugh..still  can't believe Danny didn't get Evans..went off again last night
I was thinking about this.  I really believe that when the Cavs made all of their moves, Danny decided against using assets for a rental because I don't think he believed a rental (say Evans) would make a difference in a playoff series against Cleveland.  Had Cleveland not made all of the moves, I think Danny would have moved Boston's 1st for a guy like Evans to give Boston a real shot at making the Finals. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: nickagneta on February 15, 2018, 02:29:18 PM
I feel like we are approaching 10% of all posts on this forum talking about how great the cavs are and everything with them is perfect. Good grief.

It was just as bad in the opposite direction before that 1 game, though.

I think it's pretty natural for fans of a team to take delight in the struggles of a rival. It's pretty much part of the definition of fandom. Reading the constant worship of said rival on a fan board is not.
People are allowed to be fans of any other team or player they want and post it on this board. If you don't like their fandom of other teams or players, ignore the posts or threads.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 15, 2018, 02:44:52 PM
I feel like we are approaching 10% of all posts on this forum talking about how great the cavs are and everything with them is perfect. Good grief.

It was just as bad in the opposite direction before that 1 game, though.

I think it's pretty natural for fans of a team to take delight in the struggles of a rival. It's pretty much part of the definition of fandom. Reading the constant worship of said rival on a fan board is not.
People are allowed to be fans of any other team or player they want and post it on this board. If you don't like their fandom of other teams or players, ignore the posts or threads.

Just pointed out the volume of it and that it was unusual for a fan forum. Definitely Didn't say it should be banned or anything. There is also lots of relevant and good discourse about Cleveland, they are an interesting team. Before that it was Philly. There was lots of interesting discussion about then during their rebuild. Funnily enough there is a lot less posts about them now that they are .500 (also probably tied to them trading okafor and Noel who many people wanted at times.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 15, 2018, 02:50:20 PM
I feel like we are approaching 10% of all posts on this forum talking about how great the cavs are and everything with them is perfect. Good grief.

It was just as bad in the opposite direction before that 1 game, though.

I think it's pretty natural for fans of a team to take delight in the struggles of a rival. It's pretty much part of the definition of fandom. Reading the constant worship of said rival on a fan board is not.
People are allowed to be fans of any other team or player they want and post it on this board. If you don't like their fandom of other teams or players, ignore the posts or threads.

Just pointed out the volume of it and that it was unusual for a fan forum. Definitely Didn't say it should be banned or anything. There is also lots of relevant and good discourse about Cleveland, they are an interesting team. Before that it was Philly. There was lots of interesting discussion about then during their rebuild. Funnily enough there is a lot less posts about them now that they are .500 (also probably tied to them trading okafor and Noel who many people wanted at times.
I don't think any of that is particular unusual, especially with those two teams who have been closely linked with the Celtics for awhile given their relative positions in the conference (Cavs main rival and Sixers divisional rival).  There have been something like 10 Anthony Davis posts during this season.  This summer, I'd almost expect 1 of those a week.  The Lakers have been a hot topic.  Again, there are obvious reasons for both of those as well.  If Lebron leaves Cleveland, especially if he stays East, I'd expect whatever team he ends up on to be a big topic of discussion on this board again (just like the Heat were during the last couple of the Big 3 seasons). 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 15, 2018, 02:56:52 PM
I feel like we are approaching 10% of all posts on this forum talking about how great the cavs are and everything with them is perfect. Good grief.

It was just as bad in the opposite direction before that 1 game, though.

I think it's pretty natural for fans of a team to take delight in the struggles of a rival. It's pretty much part of the definition of fandom. Reading the constant worship of said rival on a fan board is not.
People are allowed to be fans of any other team or player they want and post it on this board. If you don't like their fandom of other teams or players, ignore the posts or threads.

Just pointed out the volume of it and that it was unusual for a fan forum. Definitely Didn't say it should be banned or anything. There is also lots of relevant and good discourse about Cleveland, they are an interesting team. Before that it was Philly. There was lots of interesting discussion about then during their rebuild. Funnily enough there is a lot less posts about them now that they are .500 (also probably tied to them trading okafor and Noel who many people wanted at times.
I don't think any of that is particular unusual, especially with those two teams who have been closely linked with the Celtics for awhile given their relative positions in the conference (Cavs main rival and Sixers divisional rival).  There have been something like 10 Anthony Davis posts during this season.  This summer, I'd almost expect 1 of those a week.  The Lakers have been a hot topic.  Again, there are obvious reasons for both of those as well.  If Lebron leaves Cleveland, especially if he stays East, I'd expect whatever team he ends up on to be a big topic of discussion on this board again (just like the Heat were during the last couple of the Big 3 seasons).

Seems like a stretch to call the 76ers a division rival at this point. We have met them what once in the playoffs in the last 15 years. We were actually knocked out by the Knicks more recently. If embiid stays healthy and/or they are able to get someone in free agency the rivalry could be reignited like the 80s. It is possible we could play them this year, but I think they make way too many turnovers to win a playoff series when things tighten up
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 18, 2018, 04:05:09 PM
Turns out that it was Wade, not IT, who initially called out Kevin Love:

Quote
Thomas was upset that Kevin Love went home with an illness before a 24-point loss to Oklahoma City had concluded on Jan. 20, and that he was not at practice the following day. But, sources said, it was Wade who first made an issue of it on Monday, challenging Lue to disclose where Love had been. Numerous players verbally attacked Love, who eventually explained his absence as part of a wide-ranging, heated discussion in which virtually no one was immune from criticism.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-dwyane-wade-not-isaiah-230845876.html

Funny how the media covered for Wade until now.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Big333223 on February 18, 2018, 04:49:02 PM
Turns out that it was Wade, not IT, who initially called out Kevin Love:

Quote
Thomas was upset that Kevin Love went home with an illness before a 24-point loss to Oklahoma City had concluded on Jan. 20, and that he was not at practice the following day. But, sources said, it was Wade who first made an issue of it on Monday, challenging Lue to disclose where Love had been. Numerous players verbally attacked Love, who eventually explained his absence as part of a wide-ranging, heated discussion in which virtually no one was immune from criticism.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-dwyane-wade-not-isaiah-230845876.html

Funny how the media covered for Wade until now.

Almost like the Cavs were trying to sour fans on IT before shipping him out. But a stand-up organization like Cleveland wouldn't do that...
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 18, 2018, 05:14:25 PM
Turns out that it was Wade, not IT, who initially called out Kevin Love:

Quote
Thomas was upset that Kevin Love went home with an illness before a 24-point loss to Oklahoma City had concluded on Jan. 20, and that he was not at practice the following day. But, sources said, it was Wade who first made an issue of it on Monday, challenging Lue to disclose where Love had been. Numerous players verbally attacked Love, who eventually explained his absence as part of a wide-ranging, heated discussion in which virtually no one was immune from criticism.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-dwyane-wade-not-isaiah-230845876.html

Funny how the media covered for Wade until now.
the IT stories were that he led the charge not that he was the first to complain.  If Wade brought it up first but then IT really piled on, was the most vocal, kept bringing it up, etc. then I see no issues with any of the reporting on that point.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 18, 2018, 05:32:09 PM
Turns out that it was Wade, not IT, who initially called out Kevin Love:

Quote
Thomas was upset that Kevin Love went home with an illness before a 24-point loss to Oklahoma City had concluded on Jan. 20, and that he was not at practice the following day. But, sources said, it was Wade who first made an issue of it on Monday, challenging Lue to disclose where Love had been. Numerous players verbally attacked Love, who eventually explained his absence as part of a wide-ranging, heated discussion in which virtually no one was immune from criticism.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-dwyane-wade-not-isaiah-230845876.html

Funny how the media covered for Wade until now.
the IT stories were that he led the charge not that he was the first to complain.  If Wade brought it up first but then IT really piled on, was the most vocal, kept bringing it up, etc. then I see no issues with any of the reporting on that point.

Wade called the meeting, is described as the “instigator” and challenged Lue about Love and the legitimacy of Love’s illness. That’s not really as innocent as you’re implying.

That Vardon article is really interestinG, in that it doesn’t pull a lot of punches. Lebron and Lue get some blame, which is a media rarity.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: nickagneta on February 18, 2018, 06:25:19 PM
Said that I didn't really think it was IT that called out Love due to their history together. Wade being Wade makes more sense and I do believe this report.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 19, 2018, 03:06:33 PM
Turns out that it was Wade, not IT, who initially called out Kevin Love:

Quote
Thomas was upset that Kevin Love went home with an illness before a 24-point loss to Oklahoma City had concluded on Jan. 20, and that he was not at practice the following day. But, sources said, it was Wade who first made an issue of it on Monday, challenging Lue to disclose where Love had been. Numerous players verbally attacked Love, who eventually explained his absence as part of a wide-ranging, heated discussion in which virtually no one was immune from criticism.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-dwyane-wade-not-isaiah-230845876.html

Funny how the media covered for Wade until now.

Man they really treat IT like crap
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 22, 2018, 08:48:42 PM
Cavs are looking good again against the wizards.  Thought the all star break might have actually messed them up, but tjey are looking really good.  Should be interesting to see how they fit Love on when he is back
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: TheisTheisBaby on February 22, 2018, 08:51:44 PM
It's astonishing that guys that the refs wouldn't think twice about respecting EVER are all of a sudden given carte blanche on both ends of the court once they become a teammate of Lebron. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: MJohnnyboy on February 22, 2018, 09:19:17 PM
The Cavs definitely look better, but they don't look like they've solved all their problems.

I'd say almost every shot the Wizards got in the last six minutes of the first half were really easy.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 22, 2018, 09:47:34 PM
The Cavs should be worried about how much they’ve been relying upon JR Smith lately. He can’t sustain his production.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Phantom255x on February 22, 2018, 10:08:05 PM
The Cavaliers overall look better but we sure their defense is significantly better?

Looks like the Wizards could get 110+ tonight w/o John Wall.

Cavaliers will still win a lot of games outscoring teams now and yes, their defense is more existent now with younger, athletic bodies out there, but again it won't be enough to beat GSW, and might not get it done vs. Toronto who look legit this year (esp. with DeRozan's emergence and that deep bench)
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: SparzWizard on February 22, 2018, 10:12:47 PM
Turns out that it was Wade, not IT, who initially called out Kevin Love:

Quote
Thomas was upset that Kevin Love went home with an illness before a 24-point loss to Oklahoma City had concluded on Jan. 20, and that he was not at practice the following day. But, sources said, it was Wade who first made an issue of it on Monday, challenging Lue to disclose where Love had been. Numerous players verbally attacked Love, who eventually explained his absence as part of a wide-ranging, heated discussion in which virtually no one was immune from criticism.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-dwyane-wade-not-isaiah-230845876.html

Funny how the media covered for Wade until now.

Man they really treat IT like crap

Lol they complain and they get traded.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 22, 2018, 10:19:54 PM
The Cavs should be worried about how much they’ve been relying upon JR Smith lately. He can’t sustain his production.

I agree. The overreaction to the cavs getting some role players was a pretty unique experience on this board. The Cavs 3rd best player is probably George hill. The 4th best is either hood or clarkson? That's not Klay Thompson or draymond green. They still have serious issues
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Phantom255x on February 22, 2018, 10:21:51 PM
The Cavs should be worried about how much they’ve been relying upon JR Smith lately. He can’t sustain his production.

I agree. The overreaction to the cavs getting some role players was a pretty unique experience on this board. The Cavs 3rd best player is probably George hill. The 4th best is either hood or clarkson? That's not Klay Thompson or draymond green. They still have serious issues

Watch, if they lose tonight (which looks likely now), the media will have all the excuses lined up for Bron Bron.

But when they win, it's the "awakening of Lebron" and the "Cavaliers are unstoppable" and "the Cavaliers have closed the gap on Golden State"  ::)

UPDATE: Probably spoke too soon. Wizards might just choke this away...
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Phantom255x on February 22, 2018, 10:29:38 PM
Wizards win!

And LOL, Lebron gets to the line and goes 0-2. Practically tried running into guys blatantly to draw a foul, and didn't work!  :laugh:

Now lets see all the excuses the media makes up for the Cavaliers after deeming them "invincible" about a week ago  :P
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Boris Badenov on February 22, 2018, 10:33:41 PM
The Cavs should be worried about how much they’ve been relying upon JR Smith lately. He can’t sustain his production.

I agree. The overreaction to the cavs getting some role players was a pretty unique experience on this board. The Cavs 3rd best player is probably George hill. The 4th best is either hood or clarkson? That's not Klay Thompson or draymond green. They still have serious issues

On the other hand, they still have Jeff Green, who is a blistering +1 tonight while Nance, Hill, Clarkson and Hood are a combined -22. I think that guy might be a top 5 SF in the league. I hope Jaylen Brown turns out that well.

Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: MJohnnyboy on February 22, 2018, 10:34:25 PM
The honeymoon's over.

I do wonder, did this game show that the Cavs aren't as good as initially believed or did it show the Celtics win over the Wizards in Washington two weeks ago was more impressive than we all thought?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: G-Bones on February 22, 2018, 10:37:22 PM
Wizards win!

And LOL, Lebron gets to the line and goes 0-2. Practically tried running into guys blatantly to draw a foul, and didn't work!  :laugh:

Now lets see all the excuses the media makes up for the Cavaliers after deeming them "invincible" about a week ago  :P
. It is sickening watching Lebron ram into a defender, who gets bounced 5 feet away, and no foul ever gets called on “King James”.  The refs have ruined the game.  Glad the Cavs lost.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 22, 2018, 10:42:33 PM
Wizards win!

And LOL, Lebron gets to the line and goes 0-2. Practically tried running into guys blatantly to draw a foul, and didn't work!  :laugh:

Now lets see all the excuses the media makes up for the Cavaliers after deeming them "invincible" about a week ago  :P
. It is sickening watching Lebron ram into a defender, who gets bounced 5 feet away, and no foul ever gets called on “King James”.  The refs have ruined the game.  Glad the Cavs lost.

I did have this thought watching that. This makes jordans push off on Russell look like a pinky tickle. If they don't start calling that more on Lebron as he ages and slows down it is going to make the NBA pretty laughable
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: nickagneta on February 22, 2018, 10:53:13 PM
Wizards win!

And LOL, Lebron gets to the line and goes 0-2. Practically tried running into guys blatantly to draw a foul, and didn't work!  :laugh:

Now lets see all the excuses the media makes up for the Cavaliers after deeming them "invincible" about a week ago  :P
. It is sickening watching Lebron ram into a defender, who gets bounced 5 feet away, and no foul ever gets called on “King James”.  The refs have ruined the game.  Glad the Cavs lost.

I did have this thought watching that. This makes jordans push off on Russell look like a pinky tickle. If they don't start calling that more on Lebron as he ages and slows down it is going to make the NBA pretty laughable
Some of the no calls on Lebron in this game were some of the most egregious no calls I have seen in a while. Msybe its because I don't watch a ton of Cavs games but tonight was pretty bad.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: tazzmaniac on February 22, 2018, 10:53:32 PM
So when is Love due back? 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: the TRUTH on February 23, 2018, 12:04:23 AM
It's astonishing that guys that the refs wouldn't think twice about respecting EVER are all of a sudden given carte blanche on both ends of the court once they become a teammate of Lebron.

TP! I've been saying this for years. While LeBron is absolutely disgustingly coddled by the refs and has been from day one of his NBA career, my biggest issue has always been that his entire team gets that treatment no matter what. There are plenty of players in the league that benefit from star treatment individually, but no one else whose entire team gets that treatment.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: the TRUTH on February 23, 2018, 12:09:17 AM
The Cavs should be worried about how much they’ve been relying upon JR Smith lately. He can’t sustain his production.

I agree. The overreaction to the cavs getting some role players was a pretty unique experience on this board. The Cavs 3rd best player is probably George hill. The 4th best is either hood or clarkson? That's not Klay Thompson or draymond green. They still have serious issues

Watch, if they lose tonight (which looks likely now), the media will have all the excuses lined up for Bron Bron.

But when they win, it's the "awakening of Lebron" and the "Cavaliers are unstoppable" and "the Cavaliers have closed the gap on Golden State"  ::)

UPDATE: Probably spoke too soon. Wizards might just choke this away...

Exactly. True leaders deflect praise and accept blame. LeBron has always been the exact opposite of that. When things are going well, he gets - and gladly accepts - all the credit. But when things aren't going well, he points fingers more than any star athlete - in any sport - that I've ever seen.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: alley oop on February 23, 2018, 03:44:33 AM
After the game was over, Lebron still argued with an official.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Surferdad on February 23, 2018, 08:08:39 AM
Wizards win!

And LOL, Lebron gets to the line and goes 0-2. Practically tried running into guys blatantly to draw a foul, and didn't work!  :laugh:

Now lets see all the excuses the media makes up for the Cavaliers after deeming them "invincible" about a week ago  :P
This will follow the same pattern as past Cavs deals: The team is energized for the first couple of games and the media practically anoints them as champs.  Then they get complacent and lose to a middle-of-the-pack team, then the finger-pointing begins.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 23, 2018, 08:36:27 AM
Larry Nance, Jr. will wear his father's retired jersey number after all.  Sometime next week he will start wearing #22.  Nance, Sr.'s jersey will remain hanging in the rafters.  Nance, Jr. joked that the short shots and high white socks would also be worn.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 23, 2018, 10:20:23 AM
It cracks me up that the Cavs were the lead story on ESPN mobile most of the day / evening. Then they lose, and the loss isn’t mentioned in any of the headlines, and the Warriors and Thunder wins are highlighted.

Does Lebron own stock in ESPN?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Donoghus on February 23, 2018, 10:22:46 AM
It cracks me up that the Cavs were the lead story on ESPN mobile most of the day / evening. Then they lose, and the loss isn’t mentioned in any of the headlines, and the Warriors and Thunder wins are highlighted.

Does Lebron own stock in ESPN?

Well, he does own Brian Windhorst....
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Phantom255x on February 23, 2018, 11:00:00 AM
It cracks me up that the Cavs were the lead story on ESPN mobile most of the day / evening. Then they lose, and the loss isn’t mentioned in any of the headlines, and the Warriors and Thunder wins are highlighted.

Does Lebron own stock in ESPN?

Well, he does own Brian Windhorst....

This right here. TP.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: green_bballers13 on February 23, 2018, 11:05:35 AM
After the game was over, Lebron still argued with an official.

I think the complaining is annoying.

I also think Lebron's size/athleticism combo is borderline indefensible. He gets fouled a lot.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: green_bballers13 on February 23, 2018, 11:06:03 AM
It cracks me up that the Cavs were the lead story on ESPN mobile most of the day / evening. Then they lose, and the loss isn’t mentioned in any of the headlines, and the Warriors and Thunder wins are highlighted.

Does Lebron own stock in ESPN?

Well, he does own Brian Windhorst....

No, that would be Burger King.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 23, 2018, 11:14:04 AM
After the game was over, Lebron still argued with an official.

I think the complaining is annoying.

I also think Lebron's size/athleticism combo is borderline indefensible. He gets fouled a lot.

Yeah, I think Lebron gets fouled without calls more than any player since Shaq. But, the complaining is ceaseless.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Kuberski33 on February 23, 2018, 11:28:02 AM
It cracks me up that the Cavs were the lead story on ESPN mobile most of the day / evening. Then they lose, and the loss isn’t mentioned in any of the headlines, and the Warriors and Thunder wins are highlighted.

Does Lebron own stock in ESPN?
Don't laugh....LeBron is becoming such a power broker in the league and he's really made some smart business decisions, it wouldn't shock me at all if he's buying up Disney shares.  He'd have even more clout if he were a major shareholder in one of the NBA's broadcast partners.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 25, 2018, 11:10:26 AM
IT just keeps right on talking.  When will he learn he just needs to shut up and play. 

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22574159/isaiah-thomas-los-angeles-lakers-says-cleveland-cavaliers-panicking-traded-him
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 25, 2018, 11:26:47 AM
IT just keeps right on talking.  When will he learn he just needs to shut up and play. 

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22574159/isaiah-thomas-los-angeles-lakers-says-cleveland-cavaliers-panicking-traded-him

The guy should learn “no comment”. I get that the chip on his shoulder makes IT the player that he is, but  this media talk makes him a distraction, and thus costs him money.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 25, 2018, 05:29:48 PM
Wait so did the cavs only get role players at the deadline?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticinorlando on February 25, 2018, 05:43:30 PM
Cavs are back. Wonder how long before James quits on this group
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 25, 2018, 05:46:43 PM
Cavs are back. Wonder how long before James quits on this group

But they won 2 games against good teams in a row! Surely that means they can challenge the warriors? If your team is struggling and you get two players from the lakers and one from the jazz while sending away a two time all star and future hall of famer your team always becomes dominant?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: footey on February 25, 2018, 05:56:34 PM
Cavs need Love back. No size.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on February 25, 2018, 06:53:10 PM
Cavs are back. Wonder how long before James quits on this group

Yeah, if JR Smith is playing like his normal self, the Cavs are going to have some struggles.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: nickagneta on February 25, 2018, 06:53:12 PM
They got 4 relatively easy home games coming up vs Brk, Sixers, Den
and Det. We should start hearing how great the Cavs are again after a couple of blowout wins against poor teams.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: tazzmaniac on February 25, 2018, 06:58:40 PM
They got 4 relatively easy home games coming up vs Brk, Sixers, Den
and Det. We should start hearing how great the Cavs are again after a couple of blowout wins against poor teams.
Sixers and Denver are not easy home games.   
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Ilikesports17 on February 25, 2018, 07:07:55 PM
Cavs are back. Wonder how long before James quits on this group

But they won 2 games against good teams in a row! Surely that means they can challenge the warriors? If your team is struggling and you get two players from the lakers and one from the jazz while sending away a two time all star and future hall of famer your team always becomes dominant?
The fact that DWade is a future hall of famer and IT made 2 all star games doesnt change the fact that their presence was hurting the Cavs.

The problem is that people way overreacted to them picking up 4 solid bench players.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: nickagneta on February 25, 2018, 07:09:22 PM
They got 4 relatively easy home games coming up vs Brk, Sixers, Den
and Det. We should start hearing how great the Cavs are again after a couple of blowout wins against poor teams.
Sixers and Denver are not easy home games.   
Cavs are a really good home team, while Philly is a mediocre away team and Denver a dreadful away team. Cavs should do well the rest of this home stretch of games. If not, then its just proof they didn't really help themselves that much.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Ilikesports17 on February 25, 2018, 07:13:08 PM
They got 4 relatively easy home games coming up vs Brk, Sixers, Den
and Det. We should start hearing how great the Cavs are again after a couple of blowout wins against poor teams.
Sixers and Denver are not easy home games.   
Cavs are a really good home team, while Philly is a mediocre away team and Denver a dreadful away team. Cavs should do well the rest of this home stretch of games. If not, then its just proof they didn't really help themselves that much.
Philly is on fire right now. I think that game will be pretty difficult.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: nickagneta on February 25, 2018, 07:19:01 PM
They got 4 relatively easy home games coming up vs Brk, Sixers, Den
and Det. We should start hearing how great the Cavs are again after a couple of blowout wins against poor teams.
Sixers and Denver are not easy home games.   
Cavs are a really good home team, while Philly is a mediocre away team and Denver a dreadful away team. Cavs should do well the rest of this home stretch of games. If not, then its just proof they didn't really help themselves that much.
Philly is on fire right now. I think that game will be pretty difficult.
The only good teams they beat was Washington and NO. Beating Chi, Orl, NY, Mia, LAC isn't impressive
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: nickagneta on February 25, 2018, 07:25:42 PM
Love the headline at espn.com

Lebron stuffs stat sheet, SA wins. 

LOL
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on February 25, 2018, 07:56:57 PM
Love the headline at espn.com

Lebron stuffs stat sheet, SA wins. 

LOL

I'm shocked that ESPN dissed "the king."
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Phantom255x on February 25, 2018, 08:24:57 PM
Love the headline at espn.com

Lebron stuffs stat sheet, SA wins. 

LOL

I'm shocked that ESPN dissed "the king."

Oh you know Windhorst was probably steaming mad over there and throwing fits. Probably tried but failed to change the headline  :laugh:
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 26, 2018, 02:14:22 AM
Cavs are back. Wonder how long before James quits on this group

But they won 2 games against good teams in a row! Surely that means they can challenge the warriors? If your team is struggling and you get two players from the lakers and one from the jazz while sending away a two time all star and future hall of famer your team always becomes dominant?
The fact that DWade is a future hall of famer and IT made 2 all star games doesnt change the fact that their presence was hurting the Cavs.

The problem is that people way overreacted to them picking up 4 solid bench players.

I don't really disagree with this. Their ceiling was probably higher with those two guys if lue was a good coach. The main point, which we agree on, is they got 4 role players and everyone acted like they got prone Tracey McGrady and Shaq. They have issues and even when love is back their third best player is still George hill. That's not usually a recipe for a championship. I really really really hope Hayward is eating kale 24 hours a day and comes back this year because we would absolutely smoke them.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on February 26, 2018, 09:15:25 AM
Cavs are back. Wonder how long before James quits on this group

But they won 2 games against good teams in a row! Surely that means they can challenge the warriors? If your team is struggling and you get two players from the lakers and one from the jazz while sending away a two time all star and future hall of famer your team always becomes dominant?
The fact that DWade is a future hall of famer and IT made 2 all star games doesnt change the fact that their presence was hurting the Cavs.

The problem is that people way overreacted to them picking up 4 solid bench players.

I don't really disagree with this. Their ceiling was probably higher with those two guys if lue was a good coach. The main point, which we agree on, is they got 4 role players and everyone acted like they got prone Tracey McGrady and Shaq. They have issues and even when love is back their third best player is still George hill. That's not usually a recipe for a championship. I really really really hope Hayward is eating kale 24 hours a day and comes back this year because we would absolutely smoke them.
Wade is done.  You keep calling him a HOFer and acting like he is still that player and it is just silly.  It does a great disservice to your argument.

Thomas is hurt.  Now maybe Thomas gets healthy by the time the playoffs start, but maybe he doesn't.  The Thomas that was on the floor in Cleveland, no coach in the world could make good.  He was just an awful shell of himself. 

Obviously the Cavs have a good top 2, and then tail off.  And whether George Hill, Rodney Hood, or Jordan Clarkson is their 3rd best player, that player is weak as many title teams go, but people on this board seem to think Boston with Jaylen Brown as its 3rd best player are a real title threat as well, so I'm confused by the sentiment that the Cavs can't win, but Boston can, especially when the Cavs have the best player in the world (or at least top 2). 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on February 26, 2018, 12:33:54 PM
Cavs are back. Wonder how long before James quits on this group

But they won 2 games against good teams in a row! Surely that means they can challenge the warriors? If your team is struggling and you get two players from the lakers and one from the jazz while sending away a two time all star and future hall of famer your team always becomes dominant?
The fact that DWade is a future hall of famer and IT made 2 all star games doesnt change the fact that their presence was hurting the Cavs.

The problem is that people way overreacted to them picking up 4 solid bench players.

I don't really disagree with this. Their ceiling was probably higher with those two guys if lue was a good coach. The main point, which we agree on, is they got 4 role players and everyone acted like they got prone Tracey McGrady and Shaq. They have issues and even when love is back their third best player is still George hill. That's not usually a recipe for a championship. I really really really hope Hayward is eating kale 24 hours a day and comes back this year because we would absolutely smoke them.
Wade is done.  You keep calling him a HOFer and acting like he is still that player and it is just silly.  It does a great disservice to your argument.

Thomas is hurt.  Now maybe Thomas gets healthy by the time the playoffs start, but maybe he doesn't.  The Thomas that was on the floor in Cleveland, no coach in the world could make good.  He was just an awful shell of himself. 

Obviously the Cavs have a good top 2, and then tail off.  And whether George Hill, Rodney Hood, or Jordan Clarkson is their 3rd best player, that player is weak as many title teams go, but people on this board seem to think Boston with Jaylen Brown as its 3rd best player are a real title threat as well, so I'm confused by the sentiment that the Cavs can't win, but Boston can, especially when the Cavs have the best player in the world (or at least top 2).

Before the trade deadline you were arguing that the best chance for the Cavs to have a good run was for IT to regain his all-star form and that he just hadn't been given enough time. You were quite confident that he would get back to all-star level play. I was less optimistic, but if it happened, I agreed with you that it was their best shot. Now their best shot is what? Clarkson, Smith and Hood all get hot from 3 for an extended time?

I also agree with you that Wade is washed up, but I still think he has some ability in the playoffs to create offense in the half court that could be valuable in bursts when the game slows down (this is why is always still a bunch of contenders that want Joe Johnson even though he is beyond washed up at this point).

I am not really sure where you are creating the sentiment that there are tons of Celtics fans that think the team can win with Brown as our third best player. I can see how it would be confusing that you think lots of fans think that (since I don't think any do) Are you talking about in the future if he takes a leap and becomes an all-star player? Otherwise, I think most people think our title hopes depend on Hayward playing and Horford being our third best player (with continued improvement from Tatum and Brown).

Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on March 11, 2018, 11:16:23 PM
Cavs are about to go 4-6 in their last ten games.

Clearly, it’s Isaiah’s fault. Haha.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: SparzWizard on March 11, 2018, 11:18:11 PM
Dang, these aren't the same Cavs who blew out the Celtics on PP34 night.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Big333223 on March 11, 2018, 11:19:28 PM
As much as I hate to see the Lakers win, this blow out of the Cavs is pretty nice.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on March 11, 2018, 11:27:48 PM
Cavs are about to go 4-6 in their last ten games.

Clearly, it’s Isaiah’s fault. Haha.

Woops!
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 11, 2018, 11:41:16 PM
This must have been sweet for IT. Cleveland is a joke right now
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: nickagneta on March 11, 2018, 11:49:22 PM
Cleveland was in LA I think over a day before the Clippers game. They were in LA almost 3 days before the Lakers game. They got the easy LA/LA back to back and couldn't win either game versus inferior teams. Its about time the pundits who were putting Cleveland in GSW and Houston's level finally come forward and say they were dead wrong. Cleveland traded away a recuperating multi-time all-star for role players. Dumb move.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 11, 2018, 11:58:46 PM
Cleveland was in LA I think over a day before the Clippers game. They were in LA almost 3 days before the Lakers game. They got the easy LA/LA back to back and couldn't win either game versus inferior teams. Its about time the pundits who were putting Cleveland in GSW and Houston's level finally come forward and say they were dead wrong. Cleveland traded away a recuperating multi-time all-star for role players. Dumb move.

They should cut Lebron so he could still sign with a contender
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: jambr380 on March 12, 2018, 12:03:39 AM
Cleveland was in LA I think over a day before the Clippers game. They were in LA almost 3 days before the Lakers game. They got the easy LA/LA back to back and couldn't win either game versus inferior teams. Its about time the pundits who were putting Cleveland in GSW and Houston's level finally come forward and say they were dead wrong. Cleveland traded away a recuperating multi-time all-star for role players. Dumb move.

They also added substantial future salary and lost a 1st. Nance jr looks like a nice pick-up, though.  I get that Love and Thompson are out, but their D is simply non-existent.

Happy for IT for some redemption - he is starting look like he will get a decent contract once again.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 12, 2018, 06:17:35 AM
Osman and Hood were out against the Lakers, along with Love still not playing.  They were already thin, they can't lose 3 rotation players and still be good.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on March 12, 2018, 06:28:04 AM
Osman and Hood were out against the Lakers, along with Love still not playing.  They were already thin, they can't lose 3 rotation players and still be good.

They haven’t been particularly good since the trade.  They played two good games (where JR Smith was hot) and have been mediocre or worse since.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 12, 2018, 08:12:02 AM
Osman and Hood were out against the Lakers, along with Love still not playing.  They were already thin, they can't lose 3 rotation players and still be good.

They haven’t been particularly good since the trade.  They played two good games (where JR Smith was hot) and have been mediocre or worse since.
Sure, but they haven't had Love for any of those games, they have been without Thompson for a week or so, and last night didn't have Osman or Hood, both of whom got hurt in the game before. 

It is hard to gauge this team without seeing them all together, especially when one of the guys out is clearly and by far its second best player. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticinorlando on March 12, 2018, 08:35:10 AM
Osman and Hood were out against the Lakers, along with Love still not playing.  They were already thin, they can't lose 3 rotation players and still be good.

They haven’t been particularly good since the trade.  They played two good games (where JR Smith was hot) and have been mediocre or worse since.
Sure, but they haven't had Love for any of those games, they have been without Thompson for a week or so, and last night didn't have Osman or Hood, both of whom got hurt in the game before. 

It is hard to gauge this team without seeing them all together, especially when one of the guys out is clearly and by far its second best player.

Not really. I have a pretty good gauge on who they are
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 12, 2018, 08:56:23 AM
Osman and Hood were out against the Lakers, along with Love still not playing.  They were already thin, they can't lose 3 rotation players and still be good.

They haven’t been particularly good since the trade.  They played two good games (where JR Smith was hot) and have been mediocre or worse since.
Sure, but they haven't had Love for any of those games, they have been without Thompson for a week or so, and last night didn't have Osman or Hood, both of whom got hurt in the game before. 

It is hard to gauge this team without seeing them all together, especially when one of the guys out is clearly and by far its second best player.

Not really. I have a pretty good gauge on who they are
I honestly don't have any idea if Love is still the 26/12 1st option player he was in Minnesota or an 18/9 player he has been as the 3rd option in Cleveland.  If he is the former, then the Cavs are going to be very good and should be in the finals (though will lose to the Warriors).  If he is the latter, then they will struggle immensely in the East and very well could lose to Toronto or Boston. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 12, 2018, 08:58:08 AM
Osman and Hood were out against the Lakers, along with Love still not playing.  They were already thin, they can't lose 3 rotation players and still be good.

They haven’t been particularly good since the trade.  They played two good games (where JR Smith was hot) and have been mediocre or worse since.
Sure, but they haven't had Love for any of those games, they have been without Thompson for a week or so, and last night didn't have Osman or Hood, both of whom got hurt in the game before. 

It is hard to gauge this team without seeing them all together, especially when one of the guys out is clearly and by far its second best player.

Not really. I have a pretty good gauge on who they are

Yeah it's also worth mentioning the cavs weren't very good before the trade deadline either. IT actually looked like a capablr NBA player. Crowder has shown some more life on a Utah team playing well. Heck even Wade single handedly already won a game for the heat.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Green-18 on March 12, 2018, 09:19:26 AM
Osman and Hood were out against the Lakers, along with Love still not playing.  They were already thin, they can't lose 3 rotation players and still be good.

They haven’t been particularly good since the trade.  They played two good games (where JR Smith was hot) and have been mediocre or worse since.
Sure, but they haven't had Love for any of those games, they have been without Thompson for a week or so, and last night didn't have Osman or Hood, both of whom got hurt in the game before. 

It is hard to gauge this team without seeing them all together, especially when one of the guys out is clearly and by far its second best player.

Not really. I have a pretty good gauge on who they are
I honestly don't have any idea if Love is still the 26/12 1st option player he was in Minnesota or an 18/9 player he has been as the 3rd option in Cleveland.  If he is the former, then the Cavs are going to be very good and should be in the finals (though will lose to the Warriors).  If he is the latter, then they will struggle immensely in the East and very well could lose to Toronto or Boston.

I don't think he can be the 26/12 option on a nightly basis but he might be able to pull it together against Boston or Toronto 2 or 3 times in a 7 game series.  Things certainly look ugly in Cleveland but I wont rule out players like Clarkson or Hood having some big games in the postseason once Love is back in the lineup. 

I want to believe that the Cavs are cooked but it's still too premature. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on March 12, 2018, 09:23:10 AM
Osman and Hood were out against the Lakers, along with Love still not playing.  They were already thin, they can't lose 3 rotation players and still be good.

They haven’t been particularly good since the trade.  They played two good games (where JR Smith was hot) and have been mediocre or worse since.
Sure, but they haven't had Love for any of those games, they have been without Thompson for a week or so, and last night didn't have Osman or Hood, both of whom got hurt in the game before. 

It is hard to gauge this team without seeing them all together, especially when one of the guys out is clearly and by far its second best player.

Sure, but after the trade the media acted like the Cavs had become a lock for the Finals, even without Love.  Two wins over the Celts and OKC and you would have thought the Cavs had won 70 games.

Ultimately, though, the Cavs have replaced Kyrie with Jordan Clarkson and some decent role players. The media narrative was always silly. The Cavs are going to have a rough road in the playoffs.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 12, 2018, 09:56:07 AM
Osman and Hood were out against the Lakers, along with Love still not playing.  They were already thin, they can't lose 3 rotation players and still be good.

They haven’t been particularly good since the trade.  They played two good games (where JR Smith was hot) and have been mediocre or worse since.
Sure, but they haven't had Love for any of those games, they have been without Thompson for a week or so, and last night didn't have Osman or Hood, both of whom got hurt in the game before. 

It is hard to gauge this team without seeing them all together, especially when one of the guys out is clearly and by far its second best player.

Sure, but after the trade the media acted like the Cavs had become a lock for the Finals, even without Love.  Two wins over the Celts and OKC and you would have thought the Cavs had won 70 games.

Ultimately, though, the Cavs have replaced Kyrie with Jordan Clarkson and some decent role players. The media narrative was always silly. The Cavs are going to have a rough road in the playoffs.
They replaced Kyrie with George Hill, not that that changes your point all that much, but it is more accurate since Hill is the starting PG for them and will be for their playoff run.

I think Love will do far better when he comes back than most people.  I think he could really be a consistent 23/12 type player and am pretty curious to see how he fits back in.  Obviously if he fails to pick up some slack, then the Cavs are a much worse team, but if Love can get back to being that type of player now that he is a clear #2 guy, I think the Cavs could be quite good as they do have pieces that fit a lot better around James then they have had since probably that first season back in Cleveland.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 12, 2018, 10:32:05 AM
Osman and Hood were out against the Lakers, along with Love still not playing.  They were already thin, they can't lose 3 rotation players and still be good.

They haven’t been particularly good since the trade.  They played two good games (where JR Smith was hot) and have been mediocre or worse since.
Sure, but they haven't had Love for any of those games, they have been without Thompson for a week or so, and last night didn't have Osman or Hood, both of whom got hurt in the game before. 

It is hard to gauge this team without seeing them all together, especially when one of the guys out is clearly and by far its second best player.

Sure, but after the trade the media acted like the Cavs had become a lock for the Finals, even without Love.  Two wins over the Celts and OKC and you would have thought the Cavs had won 70 games.

Ultimately, though, the Cavs have replaced Kyrie with Jordan Clarkson and some decent role players. The media narrative was always silly. The Cavs are going to have a rough road in the playoffs.
They replaced Kyrie with George Hill, not that that changes your point all that much, but it is more accurate since Hill is the starting PG for them and will be for their playoff run.

I think Love will do far better when he comes back than most people.  I think he could really be a consistent 23/12 type player and am pretty curious to see how he fits back in.  Obviously if he fails to pick up some slack, then the Cavs are a much worse team, but if Love can get back to being that type of player now that he is a clear #2 guy, I think the Cavs could be quite good as they do have pieces that fit a lot better around James then they have had since probably that first season back in Cleveland.

Kevin love has had a lot of injuries since his Minnesota days and has definitely lost some bounce. Also do you realize there isn't a single player in the league averaging 23-12 this season (I think cousins was when he was active)  talk about setting up a guy for failure with unrealistic expectations.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 12, 2018, 10:50:07 AM
Osman and Hood were out against the Lakers, along with Love still not playing.  They were already thin, they can't lose 3 rotation players and still be good.

They haven’t been particularly good since the trade.  They played two good games (where JR Smith was hot) and have been mediocre or worse since.
Sure, but they haven't had Love for any of those games, they have been without Thompson for a week or so, and last night didn't have Osman or Hood, both of whom got hurt in the game before. 

It is hard to gauge this team without seeing them all together, especially when one of the guys out is clearly and by far its second best player.

Sure, but after the trade the media acted like the Cavs had become a lock for the Finals, even without Love.  Two wins over the Celts and OKC and you would have thought the Cavs had won 70 games.

Ultimately, though, the Cavs have replaced Kyrie with Jordan Clarkson and some decent role players. The media narrative was always silly. The Cavs are going to have a rough road in the playoffs.
They replaced Kyrie with George Hill, not that that changes your point all that much, but it is more accurate since Hill is the starting PG for them and will be for their playoff run.

I think Love will do far better when he comes back than most people.  I think he could really be a consistent 23/12 type player and am pretty curious to see how he fits back in.  Obviously if he fails to pick up some slack, then the Cavs are a much worse team, but if Love can get back to being that type of player now that he is a clear #2 guy, I think the Cavs could be quite good as they do have pieces that fit a lot better around James then they have had since probably that first season back in Cleveland.

Kevin love has had a lot of injuries since his Minnesota days and has definitely lost some bounce. Also do you realize there isn't a single player in the league averaging 23-12 this season (I think cousins was when he was active)  talk about setting up a guy for failure with unrealistic expectations.
depends on his minutes.  Love, per 36, is actually averaging 23/12 this season.  It is the first season since his last year in Minnesota he averaged that per 36.  He is only playing 28 mpg this year though.  If he bumps his minutes up and maintains a similar level of production, then 23/12 is certainly doable for him.  The Cavs need him to play more than 28 mpg (even if his production slips a bit) as they need him on the floor for at least 32 mpg (what he did in the playoffs last year), and probably closer to 36.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: tstorey_97 on March 12, 2018, 12:26:30 PM
Dear Cavaliers,

I am so sorry to hear of your recent struggles. I hope your new additions begin to integrate and bear fruit for your fine organization. I know Kevin will be back soon to aid you in your march to yet another title.

One small detail I would like to call your attention to?

The Pacers have got your worn out Lebron lead butts wrapped up and you shall be lookin up at the 76'ers by week after next!!!.

Sincerely yours,

Boston.

 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Phantom255x on March 12, 2018, 12:32:39 PM
Love should help Cleveland when he returns, BUT lets not forget that he was horrible on defense even before the injury (almost as bad as Isaiah). Love definitely would help CLE outscore their opponents on a nightly basis (playoffs included), but CLE is probably still going to give up 110+ regularly as well.

Also, the Cavaliers HAVEN'T filled the Kyrie void. That could be vital come playoff time in a series against Toronto, or even Boston (I'm not even talking HOU or GSW yet). Unless Hood or Clarkson start playing at an all-star level, then Lebron AND Love are both going to have to step up big time.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 14, 2018, 08:31:26 AM
Love due back next week.

Smith has been moved to the bench.  Korver started last night, but Hood will assume the starting role when he is back from injury.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on March 14, 2018, 09:50:59 AM
Love due back next week.

Smith has been moved to the bench.  Korver started last night, but Hood will assume the starting role when he is back from injury.

What took Lue so long? Smith has been killing the Cavs for two seasons.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: footey on March 14, 2018, 10:02:45 AM
With our injuries, seems like it will be between Cavs and Raptors to get out of the East. We will have a tough time just to get to the 2nd round, particularly if Smart is out.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 14, 2018, 12:39:10 PM
Love due back next week.

Smith has been moved to the bench.  Korver started last night, but Hood will assume the starting role when he is back from injury.

What took Lue so long? Smith has been killing the Cavs for two seasons.

Ahhh yes

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2764321-jr-smith-on-role-after-benching-honestly-i-dont-know
Cleveland Cavaliers head coach Tyronn Lue elected to switch up the starting lineup for Tuesday's game against the Phoenix Suns, leaving JR Smith to come off the bench.

"Honestly, I don't know," Smith said when asked what his new role will be, per Dave McMenamin of ESPN.com.

Kyle Korver started in his place, but McMenamin noted Rodney Hood will assume the starting position when he returns from his back injury.

"But I think it's good for the first unit, though," Smith clarified. "Because we actually get to have someone out there we're going to run stuff for and who is a threat, as opposed to having somebody who is not an option."

According to McMenamin, Lue said he had a talk with Smith about moving him out of the starting lineup, but Smith didn't seem to think it was much of a discussion.

"We didn't talk," Smith said. "He sent me a text [Monday], and I told him, 'No problem.' I didn't know that it was a 'talk.'"

He continued, saying: "That's all right, though. I'm not upset about it. I just wish there would have been more dialogue, I guess."

So Smith seems like he is trying to say the right things, but then throwing in comments about not knowing what his role was, wishing there was more dialogue and disagrees with Lue's assertion that they talked about it. This sounds like it will go well. Lol
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 14, 2018, 12:42:34 PM
With our injuries, seems like it will be between Cavs and Raptors to get out of the East. We will have a tough time just to get to the 2nd round, particularly if Smart is out.

Current odds to win the east (sportsbook.ag)

Raptors 8/5
Cavs 2/1
Celtics 3/1

We are still being given a fair chance to win the east , but definitely is a 3 team race (next best team is 9-1). No east team is being given a real chance to win the championship though with Toronto leading at 12-1 and Cleveland and Boston an underdogs underdog at 15-1 and 20-1.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: nickagneta on March 14, 2018, 01:19:49 PM
Love due back next week.

Smith has been moved to the bench.  Korver started last night, but Hood will assume the starting role when he is back from injury.

What took Lue so long? Smith has been killing the Cavs for two seasons.

Ahhh yes

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2764321-jr-smith-on-role-after-benching-honestly-i-dont-know
Cleveland Cavaliers head coach Tyronn Lue elected to switch up the starting lineup for Tuesday's game against the Phoenix Suns, leaving JR Smith to come off the bench.

"Honestly, I don't know," Smith said when asked what his new role will be, per Dave McMenamin of ESPN.com.

Kyle Korver started in his place, but McMenamin noted Rodney Hood will assume the starting position when he returns from his back injury.

"But I think it's good for the first unit, though," Smith clarified. "Because we actually get to have someone out there we're going to run stuff for and who is a threat, as opposed to having somebody who is not an option."

According to McMenamin, Lue said he had a talk with Smith about moving him out of the starting lineup, but Smith didn't seem to think it was much of a discussion.

"We didn't talk," Smith said. "He sent me a text [Monday], and I told him, 'No problem.' I didn't know that it was a 'talk.'"

He continued, saying: "That's all right, though. I'm not upset about it. I just wish there would have been more dialogue, I guess."

So Smith seems like he is trying to say the right things, but then throwing in comments about not knowing what his role was, wishing there was more dialogue and disagrees with Lue's assertion that they talked about it. This sounds like it will go well. Lol
I liked the part where he said at least they will have someone out there that they will actually run plays for.

Smith with the passive aggressive digs at Lue. I love it.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 14, 2018, 02:27:59 PM
Love due back next week.

Smith has been moved to the bench.  Korver started last night, but Hood will assume the starting role when he is back from injury.

What took Lue so long? Smith has been killing the Cavs for two seasons.

Ahhh yes

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2764321-jr-smith-on-role-after-benching-honestly-i-dont-know
Cleveland Cavaliers head coach Tyronn Lue elected to switch up the starting lineup for Tuesday's game against the Phoenix Suns, leaving JR Smith to come off the bench.

"Honestly, I don't know," Smith said when asked what his new role will be, per Dave McMenamin of ESPN.com.

Kyle Korver started in his place, but McMenamin noted Rodney Hood will assume the starting position when he returns from his back injury.

"But I think it's good for the first unit, though," Smith clarified. "Because we actually get to have someone out there we're going to run stuff for and who is a threat, as opposed to having somebody who is not an option."

According to McMenamin, Lue said he had a talk with Smith about moving him out of the starting lineup, but Smith didn't seem to think it was much of a discussion.

"We didn't talk," Smith said. "He sent me a text [Monday], and I told him, 'No problem.' I didn't know that it was a 'talk.'"

He continued, saying: "That's all right, though. I'm not upset about it. I just wish there would have been more dialogue, I guess."

So Smith seems like he is trying to say the right things, but then throwing in comments about not knowing what his role was, wishing there was more dialogue and disagrees with Lue's assertion that they talked about it. This sounds like it will go well. Lol
I liked the part where he said at least they will have someone out there that they will actually run plays for.

Smith with the passive aggressive digs at Lue. I love it.

I am getting the feeling Lue will be let go at the end of the year (barring at least a finals appearance). He has lost the lockerroom at various points, which is supposed to be his greatest skill.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 16, 2018, 12:59:28 PM
Lebron discusses challenges of not playing alongside love following another Cavs Loss:

"It's been a long time since I haven't played with another All-Star on my team," James said. "So, having Kev out has been very challenging for all of us. Kev has a big usage rate on our team. He'll get the ball when things get tight, chaotic; we can throw it to him in the low post and get some things going."

I feel like Kevin Love must really like hearing this because it seems like he has really been underappreciated for much of his time there. It seems like Love has been on the block for large parts of the next few years. I wonder what would happen with him if Lebron leaves. Would people still want Love on the Celtics? I am worried he is not going to age very because of his ongoing back issues. He still can put up great numbers, but that seems like a chronic thing.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22787218/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-says-misses-having-injured-kevin-love-playing-alongside-him
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 17, 2018, 10:56:06 PM
Cavs are falling apart health wise, but managed to win in Chicago tonight as Korver sat out this one to go along with Love, Thompson, Hood, Nance, and Osman.  They are down so many players that both their 2 way players logged non-crunch time minutes and they played only had 9 active players and they had Zizic, Green, and Calderon all start the game (along with James and Hill).  Not sure why they haven't filled that open roster spot yet, but they certainly could use the body.

Edit: With the Pacers losing, the Cavs are back in the 3 seed spot, but are just 1 loss better than the Pacers, Wizards, and Sixers.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: tazzmaniac on March 17, 2018, 11:03:40 PM
Cavs are falling apart health wise, but managed to win in Chicago tonight as Korver sat out this one to go along with Love, Thompson, Hood, Nance, and Osman.  They are down so many players that both their 2 way players logged non-crunch time minutes and they played only had 9 active players and they had Zizic, Green, and Calderon all start the game (along with James and Hill).  Not sure why they haven't filled that open roster spot yet, but they certainly could use the body.

Edit: With the Pacers losing, the Cavs are back in the 3 seed spot, but are just 1 loss better than the Pacers, Wizards, and Sixers.
They most likely haven't filled the open roster spot because of the luxury tax.  Minimum guys aren't really minimum when you're in the repeater tax. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: hpantazo on March 17, 2018, 11:28:53 PM
Zizic 14 and 6 tonight on 7-9 shooting. Not bad. George Hill though looks underwhelming. I thought he'd be better for them, but he looks like the George Hill of Sacramento, which is not good.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 18, 2018, 02:26:03 AM
Cavs are falling apart health wise, but managed to win in Chicago tonight as Korver sat out this one to go along with Love, Thompson, Hood, Nance, and Osman.  They are down so many players that both their 2 way players logged non-crunch time minutes and they played only had 9 active players and they had Zizic, Green, and Calderon all start the game (along with James and Hill).  Not sure why they haven't filled that open roster spot yet, but they certainly could use the body.

Edit: With the Pacers losing, the Cavs are back in the 3 seed spot, but are just 1 loss better than the Pacers, Wizards, and Sixers.

Well let's call it both ways. Bulls, desperately trying to lose, sat Lopez, Dunn, Levine, Markenen and had 9 total players still had the game tied in the last few minutes. Lebron and high school players should win in that situation
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: SparzWizard on March 18, 2018, 05:52:19 AM
Lebron discusses challenges of not playing alongside love following another Cavs Loss:

"It's been a long time since I haven't played with another All-Star on my team," James said. "So, having Kev out has been very challenging for all of us. Kev has a big usage rate on our team. He'll get the ball when things get tight, chaotic; we can throw it to him in the low post and get some things going."

I feel like Kevin Love must really like hearing this because it seems like he has really been underappreciated for much of his time there. It seems like Love has been on the block for large parts of the next few years. I wonder what would happen with him if Lebron leaves. Would people still want Love on the Celtics? I am worried he is not going to age very because of his ongoing back issues. He still can put up great numbers, but that seems like a chronic thing.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22787218/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-says-misses-having-injured-kevin-love-playing-alongside-him

Seems like an injury prone player, Kevin Love that is. Also his defense isn't that great. He would've been awesome in Celtics uniform 2014, no doubt.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: GreenWarrior on March 18, 2018, 09:22:07 AM
Lebron discusses challenges of not playing alongside love following another Cavs Loss:

"It's been a long time since I haven't played with another All-Star on my team," James said. "So, having Kev out has been very challenging for all of us. Kev has a big usage rate on our team. He'll get the ball when things get tight, chaotic; we can throw it to him in the low post and get some things going."

I feel like Kevin Love must really like hearing this because it seems like he has really been underappreciated for much of his time there. It seems like Love has been on the block for large parts of the next few years. I wonder what would happen with him if Lebron leaves. Would people still want Love on the Celtics? I am worried he is not going to age very because of his ongoing back issues. He still can put up great numbers, but that seems like a chronic thing.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22787218/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-says-misses-having-injured-kevin-love-playing-alongside-him


ok, that's every team he's played with  now that he's bashed his teammates.

I figured we'd hear him complain in the playoffs but he couldn't wait.

great player.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 18, 2018, 10:04:35 PM
Cavs are falling apart health wise, but managed to win in Chicago tonight as Korver sat out this one to go along with Love, Thompson, Hood, Nance, and Osman.  They are down so many players that both their 2 way players logged non-crunch time minutes and they played only had 9 active players and they had Zizic, Green, and Calderon all start the game (along with James and Hill).  Not sure why they haven't filled that open roster spot yet, but they certainly could use the body.

Edit: With the Pacers losing, the Cavs are back in the 3 seed spot, but are just 1 loss better than the Pacers, Wizards, and Sixers.

Well let's call it both ways. Bulls, desperately trying to lose, sat Lopez, Dunn, Levine, Markenen and had 9 total players still had the game tied in the last few minutes. Lebron and high school players should win in that situation

Big game Tuesday. Will cavs all credit in world if they win
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: MattyIce on March 18, 2018, 10:11:09 PM
Cavs are falling apart health wise, but managed to win in Chicago tonight as Korver sat out this one to go along with Love, Thompson, Hood, Nance, and Osman.  They are down so many players that both their 2 way players logged non-crunch time minutes and they played only had 9 active players and they had Zizic, Green, and Calderon all start the game (along with James and Hill).  Not sure why they haven't filled that open roster spot yet, but they certainly could use the body.

Edit: With the Pacers losing, the Cavs are back in the 3 seed spot, but are just 1 loss better than the Pacers, Wizards, and Sixers.

Well let's call it both ways. Bulls, desperately trying to lose, sat Lopez, Dunn, Levine, Markenen and had 9 total players still had the game tied in the last few minutes. Lebron and high school players should win in that situation

Big game Tuesday. Will cavs all credit in world if they win

u mean Wednesday? I think Toronto may prefer to lose that one...to keep cavs out of their bracket
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 19, 2018, 08:23:31 AM
Cavs are falling apart health wise, but managed to win in Chicago tonight as Korver sat out this one to go along with Love, Thompson, Hood, Nance, and Osman.  They are down so many players that both their 2 way players logged non-crunch time minutes and they played only had 9 active players and they had Zizic, Green, and Calderon all start the game (along with James and Hill).  Not sure why they haven't filled that open roster spot yet, but they certainly could use the body.

Edit: With the Pacers losing, the Cavs are back in the 3 seed spot, but are just 1 loss better than the Pacers, Wizards, and Sixers.

Well let's call it both ways. Bulls, desperately trying to lose, sat Lopez, Dunn, Levine, Markenen and had 9 total players still had the game tied in the last few minutes. Lebron and high school players should win in that situation

Big game Tuesday. Will cavs all credit in world if they win
be interested to see if Love returns for the game.  last week he was looking at Wednesday or Friday.  I haven't heard if that has changed or been more firmed up one way or the other.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Donoghus on March 19, 2018, 09:01:36 AM
Windy must've realized he had gone a couple of weeks without a Lebron fluff piece.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22778062/how-lebron-james-fixed-back-track-play-all-82-games-nba

Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on March 19, 2018, 09:05:59 AM
Windy must've realized he had gone a couple of weeks without a Lebron fluff piece.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22778062/how-lebron-james-fixed-back-track-play-all-82-games-nba

So, is HGH the solution to back trouble? I wish Larry had known that secret.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 19, 2018, 12:32:13 PM
Love is questionable for tonight, and may actually go. 

Be interesting to see how they do without Lue.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: ChillyWilly on March 19, 2018, 12:40:41 PM
I like Lue the person but I'm unsure about Lue the coach. Hope he gets better I'm sure being the coach of the most covered team in the NBA comes with plenty of stress.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 19, 2018, 12:49:53 PM
Windy must've realized he had gone a couple of weeks without a Lebron fluff piece.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22778062/how-lebron-james-fixed-back-track-play-all-82-games-nba

So, is HGH the solution to back trouble? I wish Larry had known that secret.

+1. Larry definitely would have played longer with access to that
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: green_bballers13 on March 19, 2018, 01:13:55 PM
Does anyone actually think that Ty Lue being gone matters?

Luke Walton won a ton of games for GS when Kerr was gone. I don't think the coaching situation matters that much for CLE. I think Kevin Love coming back is much more impactful.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: kozlodoev on March 19, 2018, 01:23:55 PM
Does anyone actually think that Ty Lue being gone matters?
I do, I'm afraid it might make the Cavs better...
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: hpantazo on March 19, 2018, 01:33:37 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2765392-tyronn-lue-steps-away-from-cavaliers-due-to-health-larry-drew-assumes-hc-role?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

I feel bad for Lue. It sounds like all the pressure of the Cavs season has given him some serious heart problems.

"I have had chest pains and other troubling symptoms, compounded by a loss of sleep, throughout the year. Despite a battery of tests, there have been no conclusions as to what the exact issue is."

Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: nickagneta on March 19, 2018, 03:58:19 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2765392-tyronn-lue-steps-away-from-cavaliers-due-to-health-larry-drew-assumes-hc-role?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

I feel bad for Lue. It sounds like all the pressure of the Cavs season has given him some serious heart problems.

"I have had chest pains and other troubling symptoms, compounded by a loss of sleep, throughout the year. Despite a battery of tests, there have been no conclusions as to what the exact issue is."
Sound like anxiety attacks and issues.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: hpantazo on March 19, 2018, 03:59:20 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2765392-tyronn-lue-steps-away-from-cavaliers-due-to-health-larry-drew-assumes-hc-role?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

I feel bad for Lue. It sounds like all the pressure of the Cavs season has given him some serious heart problems.

"I have had chest pains and other troubling symptoms, compounded by a loss of sleep, throughout the year. Despite a battery of tests, there have been no conclusions as to what the exact issue is."
Sound like anxiety attacks and issues.


Yep. It sounds similar to Kevin Love's issues.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 19, 2018, 08:55:40 PM
Love 14/5/4 in 18 minutes so far.  Shooting well also.  LeBron 1 assist away from another 30 point triple double
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 19, 2018, 09:14:50 PM
The bucks have been an easy matchup for the cavs all year because of their lack of 3 point shooting. The cavs were beating them easily earlier in the season even when they were playing bad. Very curious to see how they do against raptors. Seems like a much tougher matchup for them
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: hpantazo on March 19, 2018, 09:36:43 PM
Lebron must really want that MVP trophy: 40 points, 12 rebound and 10 assists tonight

He's been on a tear in this last stretch of the regular season, like he's got something to prove
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: SparzWizard on March 19, 2018, 09:43:02 PM
Lebron must really want that MVP trophy: 40 points, 12 rebound and 10 assists tonight

He's been on a tear in this last stretch of the regular season, like he's got something to prove

Good, that should wear him off for the playoffs.

And I hope the Cavs do not sweep their way to the ECF. They need to face a team like the 76ers or Wizards in round 1, give LeBron James some fits.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: csfansince60s on March 19, 2018, 09:50:39 PM
Lebron must really want that MVP trophy: 40 points, 12 rebound and 10 assists tonight

He's been on a tear in this last stretch of the regular season, like he's got something to prove

Good, that should wear him off for the playoffs.

And I hope the Cavs do not sweep their way to the ECF. They need to face a team like the 76ers or Wizards in round 1, give LeBron James some fits.

But not so much so that he wants to join them next year.

Bron Bron on the Sixers.......and I didn't think I could dislike him more. Early 80s again, Baby!!!
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: SparzWizard on March 19, 2018, 10:02:01 PM
Lebron must really want that MVP trophy: 40 points, 12 rebound and 10 assists tonight

He's been on a tear in this last stretch of the regular season, like he's got something to prove

Good, that should wear him off for the playoffs.

And I hope the Cavs do not sweep their way to the ECF. They need to face a team like the 76ers or Wizards in round 1, give LeBron James some fits.

But not so much so that he wants to join them next year.

Bron Bron on the Sixers.......and I didn't think I could dislike him more. Early 80s again, Baby!!!

Or he can go to the Lakers and I can finally despise both of my most hated enemies in one squad lolol
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Phantom255x on March 19, 2018, 10:13:18 PM
I'm still curious to see how the Cavaliers truly fill that "Kyrie void" when they play the elite teams in the playoffs.

Getting Love back certainly helps, but unless Clarkson or Hood start playing like an all-star, then it may not be so easy for CLE. I'd still favor they make it out of the East, but it's certainly no gimme with how deep Toronto is, and I think a team like Philadelphia or Washington (w/healthy Wall) could give them fits in the early rounds. Wish I could say the same about us, but we're just too injured and a lot hinges on how Smart is IF he returns by May and how Kyrie holds up with his knee (is he 80%? 60%? lower?).

The Cavaliers defense still sucks, but like previous years, they do a great job outscoring teams, which works in the East, but won't work against a team like Golden State or Houston in the Finals.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: nickagneta on March 19, 2018, 10:17:16 PM
Lebron must really want that MVP trophy: 40 points, 12 rebound and 10 assists tonight

He's been on a tear in this last stretch of the regular season, like he's got something to prove
Lebron last 10 games. 30ppg, 10rpg, 9apg, TS% about 60%

Cavs record 5-5.

Lebron ain't coming anywhere near the MVP trophy this year.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: csfansince60s on March 19, 2018, 10:20:52 PM
Lebron must really want that MVP trophy: 40 points, 12 rebound and 10 assists tonight

He's been on a tear in this last stretch of the regular season, like he's got something to prove

Good, that should wear him off for the playoffs.

And I hope the Cavs do not sweep their way to the ECF. They need to face a team like the 76ers or Wizards in round 1, give LeBron James some fits.

But not so much so that he wants to join them next year.

Bron Bron on the Sixers.......and I didn't think I could dislike him more. Early 80s again, Baby!!!

Or he can go to the Lakers and I can finally despise both of my most hated enemies in one squad lolol

Haha! That's called a two'fer!

Sixers right there at second for me and Knicks 3rd! Old school? Old habits die hard!
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 20, 2018, 12:25:43 AM
Lebron must really want that MVP trophy: 40 points, 12 rebound and 10 assists tonight

He's been on a tear in this last stretch of the regular season, like he's got something to prove
Lebron last 10 games. 30ppg, 10rpg, 9apg, TS% about 60%

Cavs record 5-5.

Lebron ain't coming anywhere near the MVP trophy this year.

For all the grief Westbrook got for stat hunting last year there have been few comments on Lebron on the court in 20 point blowouts and chasing triple doubles this year. It would be better off for the team if he rested some in the last few weeks
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 20, 2018, 06:53:41 AM
Lebron must really want that MVP trophy: 40 points, 12 rebound and 10 assists tonight

He's been on a tear in this last stretch of the regular season, like he's got something to prove
Lebron last 10 games. 30ppg, 10rpg, 9apg, TS% about 60%

Cavs record 5-5.

Lebron ain't coming anywhere near the MVP trophy this year.

For all the grief Westbrook got for stat hunting last year there have been few comments on Lebron on the court in 20 point blowouts and chasing triple doubles this year. It would be better off for the team if he rested some in the last few weeks
he cant rest or they lose the 3 seed
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 20, 2018, 06:57:44 AM
And LeBron isn't winning the MVP.  He is 4th or 5th right now and probably can't get any higher
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: green_bballers13 on March 20, 2018, 07:10:24 AM
Lebron must really want that MVP trophy: 40 points, 12 rebound and 10 assists tonight

He's been on a tear in this last stretch of the regular season, like he's got something to prove
Lebron last 10 games. 30ppg, 10rpg, 9apg, TS% about 60%

Cavs record 5-5.

Lebron ain't coming anywhere near the MVP trophy this year.

For all the grief Westbrook got for stat hunting last year there have been few comments on Lebron on the court in 20 point blowouts and chasing triple doubles this year. It would be better off for the team if he rested some in the last few weeks
he cant rest or they lose the 3 seed

A dream scenario would be for CLE to travel to TOR for a 7 game slugfest. Let's go Indy!
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 20, 2018, 01:11:15 PM
Lebron must really want that MVP trophy: 40 points, 12 rebound and 10 assists tonight

He's been on a tear in this last stretch of the regular season, like he's got something to prove
Lebron last 10 games. 30ppg, 10rpg, 9apg, TS% about 60%

Cavs record 5-5.

Lebron ain't coming anywhere near the MVP trophy this year.

For all the grief Westbrook got for stat hunting last year there have been few comments on Lebron on the court in 20 point blowouts and chasing triple doubles this year. It would be better off for the team if he rested some in the last few weeks
he cant rest or they lose the 3 seed

Come on man. Could this be any more transparent?

http://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400975760

Cavs are up 22 points entering the 4th against a Suns team that is tanking hard for the worst record in the league and has won 1 game since January. Lebron still enters in the 4th quarter to pick up 2 assists and get a triple double while not taking a shot. He is removed immediately after getting his triple double.

There are certainly some games he can't rest for because of their injuries, but to deny there is some stat and triple double hunting is being willfully ignorant.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 20, 2018, 01:27:39 PM
Lebron must really want that MVP trophy: 40 points, 12 rebound and 10 assists tonight

He's been on a tear in this last stretch of the regular season, like he's got something to prove
Lebron last 10 games. 30ppg, 10rpg, 9apg, TS% about 60%

Cavs record 5-5.

Lebron ain't coming anywhere near the MVP trophy this year.

For all the grief Westbrook got for stat hunting last year there have been few comments on Lebron on the court in 20 point blowouts and chasing triple doubles this year. It would be better off for the team if he rested some in the last few weeks
he cant rest or they lose the 3 seed

Come on man. Could this be any more transparent?

http://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400975760

Cavs are up 22 points entering the 4th against a Suns team that is tanking hard for the worst record in the league and has won 1 game since January. Lebron still enters in the 4th quarter to pick up 2 assists and get a triple double while not taking a shot. He is removed immediately after getting his triple double.

There are certainly some games he can't rest for because of their injuries, but to deny there is some stat and triple double hunting is being willfully ignorant.
I never said he wasn't stat hunting, I was just commenting on him missing games (which is what I thought you were saying about rest). 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 20, 2018, 01:43:34 PM
Lebron must really want that MVP trophy: 40 points, 12 rebound and 10 assists tonight

He's been on a tear in this last stretch of the regular season, like he's got something to prove
Lebron last 10 games. 30ppg, 10rpg, 9apg, TS% about 60%

Cavs record 5-5.

Lebron ain't coming anywhere near the MVP trophy this year.

For all the grief Westbrook got for stat hunting last year there have been few comments on Lebron on the court in 20 point blowouts and chasing triple doubles this year. It would be better off for the team if he rested some in the last few weeks
he cant rest or they lose the 3 seed

Come on man. Could this be any more transparent?

http://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400975760

Cavs are up 22 points entering the 4th against a Suns team that is tanking hard for the worst record in the league and has won 1 game since January. Lebron still enters in the 4th quarter to pick up 2 assists and get a triple double while not taking a shot. He is removed immediately after getting his triple double.

There are certainly some games he can't rest for because of their injuries, but to deny there is some stat and triple double hunting is being willfully ignorant.
I never said he wasn't stat hunting, I was just commenting on him missing games (which is what I thought you were saying about rest).

I think both. I do think, especially with Love back now he can sit a few games to ensure he is rested for post-season. I don't think there is really a chance they lose at home against the Suns this Friday for example or definitely one of the last two of the season against the Knicks.

However, the stat-hunting in games that are already decided is the most foolish part for long-term goals of a deep playoff runs. Pops and Kerr are not sitting their guys in 4th quarters and giving them rest just for fun (and most of these guys are considerably younger than Lebron). There is a ton of data on injury risk and performance that support those moves and they are ultimately in the teams best interest.

Ultimately I think most of this falls on Lue. He doesn't seem capable of standing up to Lebron and has also expressed some of the weirdest archaic views I have heard from a coach on minutes management in the last 10 years (they did it in the 80's so i don't worry about it). 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 20, 2018, 01:56:39 PM
Lebron must really want that MVP trophy: 40 points, 12 rebound and 10 assists tonight

He's been on a tear in this last stretch of the regular season, like he's got something to prove
Lebron last 10 games. 30ppg, 10rpg, 9apg, TS% about 60%

Cavs record 5-5.

Lebron ain't coming anywhere near the MVP trophy this year.

For all the grief Westbrook got for stat hunting last year there have been few comments on Lebron on the court in 20 point blowouts and chasing triple doubles this year. It would be better off for the team if he rested some in the last few weeks
he cant rest or they lose the 3 seed

Come on man. Could this be any more transparent?

http://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400975760

Cavs are up 22 points entering the 4th against a Suns team that is tanking hard for the worst record in the league and has won 1 game since January. Lebron still enters in the 4th quarter to pick up 2 assists and get a triple double while not taking a shot. He is removed immediately after getting his triple double.

There are certainly some games he can't rest for because of their injuries, but to deny there is some stat and triple double hunting is being willfully ignorant.
I never said he wasn't stat hunting, I was just commenting on him missing games (which is what I thought you were saying about rest).

I think both. I do think, especially with Love back now he can sit a few games to ensure he is rested for post-season. I don't think there is really a chance they lose at home against the Suns this Friday for example or definitely one of the last two of the season against the Knicks.

However, the stat-hunting in games that are already decided is the most foolish part for long-term goals of a deep playoff runs. Pops and Kerr are not sitting their guys in 4th quarters and giving them rest just for fun (and most of these guys are considerably younger than Lebron). There is a ton of data on injury risk and performance that support those moves and they are ultimately in the teams best interest.

Ultimately I think most of this falls on Lue. He doesn't seem capable of standing up to Lebron and has also expressed some of the weirdest archaic views I have heard from a coach on minutes management in the last 10 years (they did it in the 80's so i don't worry about it).
The schedule has a lot more rest built in this year then prior years though and James is healthy.  There really isn't much need for him to take games off, just for the sake of rest.  Now sure if he gets banged up or something, sure give him time off, but for the most part he looks physically fine.  he doesn't appear tired or beat up.  I just don't see the point in giving him (or anyone for that matter) a day off just to rest up for the playoffs when said player is otherwise healthy and ready to play. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 20, 2018, 02:05:51 PM
Lebron must really want that MVP trophy: 40 points, 12 rebound and 10 assists tonight

He's been on a tear in this last stretch of the regular season, like he's got something to prove
Lebron last 10 games. 30ppg, 10rpg, 9apg, TS% about 60%

Cavs record 5-5.

Lebron ain't coming anywhere near the MVP trophy this year.

For all the grief Westbrook got for stat hunting last year there have been few comments on Lebron on the court in 20 point blowouts and chasing triple doubles this year. It would be better off for the team if he rested some in the last few weeks
he cant rest or they lose the 3 seed

Come on man. Could this be any more transparent?

http://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400975760

Cavs are up 22 points entering the 4th against a Suns team that is tanking hard for the worst record in the league and has won 1 game since January. Lebron still enters in the 4th quarter to pick up 2 assists and get a triple double while not taking a shot. He is removed immediately after getting his triple double.

There are certainly some games he can't rest for because of their injuries, but to deny there is some stat and triple double hunting is being willfully ignorant.
I never said he wasn't stat hunting, I was just commenting on him missing games (which is what I thought you were saying about rest).

I think both. I do think, especially with Love back now he can sit a few games to ensure he is rested for post-season. I don't think there is really a chance they lose at home against the Suns this Friday for example or definitely one of the last two of the season against the Knicks.

However, the stat-hunting in games that are already decided is the most foolish part for long-term goals of a deep playoff runs. Pops and Kerr are not sitting their guys in 4th quarters and giving them rest just for fun (and most of these guys are considerably younger than Lebron). There is a ton of data on injury risk and performance that support those moves and they are ultimately in the teams best interest.

Ultimately I think most of this falls on Lue. He doesn't seem capable of standing up to Lebron and has also expressed some of the weirdest archaic views I have heard from a coach on minutes management in the last 10 years (they did it in the 80's so i don't worry about it).
The schedule has a lot more rest built in this year then prior years though and James is healthy.  There really isn't much need for him to take games off, just for the sake of rest.  Now sure if he gets banged up or something, sure give him time off, but for the most part he looks physically fine.  he doesn't appear tired or beat up. I just don't see the point in giving him (or anyone for that matter) a day off just to rest up for the playoffs when said player is otherwise healthy and ready to play.

Not sure how you can say he hasn't looked absolutely wiped at various points this season. The effort on defense has certainly been lacking more than any other season and he has had his hands on his knees moments on offense as well. That was a consistent complaint about him on the cavs fan forums, that his effort has been so lax on defense it has set the tone for other players on the team on that end. Definitely think that would improve a bit if he was playing less minutes.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 21, 2018, 12:26:47 PM
Sadly, Kyle Korver lost his brother last night so he won't be available for at least tonight if not longer for the Cavs (it is why he missed Saturday, though he did play Monday).  Real shame, his brother was just 27.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: SparzWizard on March 21, 2018, 09:42:22 PM
The Cavs played one of their best games of the season against the Raptors. Their starting 5 in double-figures. Kevin Love with a double-double after a lengthy absence. LeBron James resumes his dominance.

They look like they are peaking at the right time...dan-ger-ous for the rest of the East.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Rondo9 on March 21, 2018, 09:44:01 PM
The Cavs played one of their best games of the season against the Raptors. Their starting 5 in double-figures. Kevin Love with a double-double after a lengthy absence. LeBron James resumes his dominance.

They look like they are peaking at the right time...dan-ger-ous for the rest of the East.

Didn’t they lose a bunch a games prior to this game?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on March 21, 2018, 09:54:05 PM
The Cavs played one of their best games of the season against the Raptors. Their starting 5 in double-figures. Kevin Love with a double-double after a lengthy absence. LeBron James resumes his dominance.

They look like they are peaking at the right time...dan-ger-ous for the rest of the East.

They won by 3 points despite Lebron going off, Hill shooting 10-for-11, and Hill / Calderon / Love / Green shooting 12-for-16 from deep.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: liam on March 21, 2018, 10:02:09 PM
The Cavs played one of their best games of the season against the Raptors. Their starting 5 in double-figures. Kevin Love with a double-double after a lengthy absence. LeBron James resumes his dominance.

They look like they are peaking at the right time...dan-ger-ous for the rest of the East.

They won by 3 points despite Lebron going off, Hill shooting 10-for-11, and Hill / Calderon / Love / Green shooting 12-for-16 from deep.

That and The Raptors aren't going to finish any lower than 1st at this point and The Cavs are fighting for there playoff lives, well being on the top of their bracket anyway. I'm wondering if The Cavs would rather face The Celtics or The Raptors 1st?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: nickagneta on March 21, 2018, 10:03:40 PM
The Cavs played one of their best games of the season against the Raptors. Their starting 5 in double-figures. Kevin Love with a double-double after a lengthy absence. LeBron James resumes his dominance.

They look like they are peaking at the right time...dan-ger-ous for the rest of the East.

They won by 3 points despite Lebron going off, Hill shooting 10-for-11, and Hill / Calderon / Love / Green shooting 12-for-16 from deep.
While giving up 129 points in regulation play.

If the Cavs are giving up 120+ points a game in the playoffs, they are losing the vast, vast, vast majority of those games. The Cavs defense is awful and I don't see them throwing the switch and suddenly holding teams to 100 ppg in the playoffs.

This isn't the same team of the last three years. Lebron defensively is not the same player. Clarkson, Nance, Osman have no playoff experience. Smith and Thompson seem shells of their former selves. Hill is no Kyrie and lord knows if Love is going to be Minnesota Love, Cleveland 2016 Love or I am injured AND have anxiety problems Love.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: jambr380 on March 21, 2018, 10:05:18 PM
The Nets just blew a 23 point lead to Charlotte including an 18-2 run to finish off the game (Dwight also had 32 and 30). I guess it's Cleveland's night, after all.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: SparzWizard on March 21, 2018, 10:21:22 PM
The Nets just blew a 23 point lead to Charlotte including an 18-2 run to finish off the game (Dwight also had 32 and 30). I guess it's Cleveland's night, after all.

Ugh, the more I think about BKN 2018 the more I feel the Celtics got nabbed in that trade. Kyrie is hurt and may be out for the season with his knee issues. Zizic is actually becoming a decent backup for them, too.  ::)
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: libermaniac on March 21, 2018, 10:59:19 PM
The Nets just blew a 23 point lead to Charlotte including an 18-2 run to finish off the game (Dwight also had 32 and 30). I guess it's Cleveland's night, after all.

Ugh, the more I think about BKN 2018 the more I feel the Celtics got nabbed in that trade. Kyrie is hurt and may be out for the season with his knee issues. Zizic is actually becoming a decent backup for them, too.  ::)
On the bright side, Charlotte now has 31 wins - same as the Lakers. Remember there is still a tiny chance the Cs get picks 2 or 3.  ;)
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 22, 2018, 12:13:32 AM
The Nets just blew a 23 point lead to Charlotte including an 18-2 run to finish off the game (Dwight also had 32 and 30). I guess it's Cleveland's night, after all.

Ugh, the more I think about BKN 2018 the more I feel the Celtics got nabbed in that trade. Kyrie is hurt and may be out for the season with his knee issues. Zizic is actually becoming a decent backup for them, too.  ::)
I'd be very surprised if Irving is actually out for the season and Brooklyn currently sits outside the top 5 for lotto odds.

Things can change, but right now we are far and away the winners of that trade.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 22, 2018, 02:46:36 AM
The Nets just blew a 23 point lead to Charlotte including an 18-2 run to finish off the game (Dwight also had 32 and 30). I guess it's Cleveland's night, after all.

Ugh, the more I think about BKN 2018 the more I feel the Celtics got nabbed in that trade. Kyrie is hurt and may be out for the season with his knee issues. Zizic is actually becoming a decent backup for them, too.  ::)
I'd be very surprised if Irving is actually out for the season and Brooklyn currently sits outside the top 5 for lotto odds.

Things can change, but right now we are far and away the winners of that trade.

Yeah let's not embarrass ourselves at this point. Crowder is in Utah. IT is in LA and surprise injury prone players hood and nance are injured (again). Sure if Cleveland wins the lottery and gets a superstar it changes things, but even the cavs forum admits they are on the losing end right now.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 22, 2018, 08:28:51 AM
The Cavs played one of their best games of the season against the Raptors. Their starting 5 in double-figures. Kevin Love with a double-double after a lengthy absence. LeBron James resumes his dominance.

They look like they are peaking at the right time...dan-ger-ous for the rest of the East.

They won by 3 points despite Lebron going off, Hill shooting 10-for-11, and Hill / Calderon / Love / Green shooting 12-for-16 from deep.
While giving up 129 points in regulation play.

If the Cavs are giving up 120+ points a game in the playoffs, they are losing the vast, vast, vast majority of those games. The Cavs defense is awful and I don't see them throwing the switch and suddenly holding teams to 100 ppg in the playoffs.

This isn't the same team of the last three years. Lebron defensively is not the same player. Clarkson, Nance, Osman have no playoff experience. Smith and Thompson seem shells of their former selves. Hill is no Kyrie and lord knows if Love is going to be Minnesota Love, Cleveland 2016 Love or I am injured AND have anxiety problems Love.
They have better individual defenders this year then they did last year and they entered last year playing as a bottom 3 defense for the entire second half of the year before turning it on in the playoffs and finishing as a top 3 defense in the playoffs.  Obviously, they will miss Irving's scoring and ability to take games over, but Hill is a better defender and better 3 point shooter than Irving (Irving is obviously a much much better player).  Instead of Smith, Shumpert, and Deron Williams, they will have Hood, Smith, and Clarkson, which is a much better 3 some on both ends of the floor.  Korver is Korver and Thompson is Thompson, though Thompson will get far less minutes this year and will come off the bench rather than start.  They will replace Frye and R. Jefferson with Green and Nance.  They have guys like Osman and Zizic on the deep bench instead of Derrick Williams, James Jones, and Dahntay Jones.

In other words, defensively they have the potential to be far better then they were last year, when they were blowing teams out in the East and a top 3 defensive team in the playoffs. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: acieEarl on March 22, 2018, 10:33:38 AM
The Nets just blew a 23 point lead to Charlotte including an 18-2 run to finish off the game (Dwight also had 32 and 30). I guess it's Cleveland's night, after all.

Ugh, the more I think about BKN 2018 the more I feel the Celtics got nabbed in that trade. Kyrie is hurt and may be out for the season with his knee issues. Zizic is actually becoming a decent backup for them, too.  ::)

I was kinda upset about the putting Zizic in that trade because he was just a throw in and didn't seem like the Cavs even wanted him, just in the deal to make the numbers work. Woulda loved see him develop under the Cs. With all of our injuries he'd be getting some minutes as well.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Surferdad on March 22, 2018, 11:15:08 AM
The Nets just blew a 23 point lead to Charlotte including an 18-2 run to finish off the game (Dwight also had 32 and 30). I guess it's Cleveland's night, after all.

Ugh, the more I think about BKN 2018 the more I feel the Celtics got nabbed in that trade. Kyrie is hurt and may be out for the season with his knee issues. Zizic is actually becoming a decent backup for them, too.  ::)

I was kinda upset about the putting Zizic in that trade because he was just a throw in and didn't seem like the Cavs even wanted him, just in the deal to make the numbers work. Woulda loved see him develop under the Cs. With all of our injuries he'd be getting some minutes as well.
Not me.  Monroe is a better outcome.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: RockinRyA on March 22, 2018, 11:39:25 AM
The Cavs played one of their best games of the season against the Raptors. Their starting 5 in double-figures. Kevin Love with a double-double after a lengthy absence. LeBron James resumes his dominance.

They look like they are peaking at the right time...dan-ger-ous for the rest of the East.

They won by 3 points despite Lebron going off, Hill shooting 10-for-11, and Hill / Calderon / Love / Green shooting 12-for-16 from deep.
While giving up 129 points in regulation play.

If the Cavs are giving up 120+ points a game in the playoffs, they are losing the vast, vast, vast majority of those games. The Cavs defense is awful and I don't see them throwing the switch and suddenly holding teams to 100 ppg in the playoffs.

This isn't the same team of the last three years. Lebron defensively is not the same player. Clarkson, Nance, Osman have no playoff experience. Smith and Thompson seem shells of their former selves. Hill is no Kyrie and lord knows if Love is going to be Minnesota Love, Cleveland 2016 Love or I am injured AND have anxiety problems Love.
They have better individual defenders this year then they did last year and they entered last year playing as a bottom 3 defense for the entire second half of the year before turning it on in the playoffs and finishing as a top 3 defense in the playoffs.  Obviously, they will miss Irving's scoring and ability to take games over, but Hill is a better defender and better 3 point shooter than Irving (Irving is obviously a much much better player).  Instead of Smith, Shumpert, and Deron Williams, they will have Hood, Smith, and Clarkson, which is a much better 3 some on both ends of the floor.  Korver is Korver and Thompson is Thompson, though Thompson will get far less minutes this year and will come off the bench rather than start.  They will replace Frye and R. Jefferson with Green and Nance.  They have guys like Osman and Zizic on the deep bench instead of Derrick Williams, James Jones, and Dahntay Jones.

In other words, defensively they have the potential to be far better then they were last year, when they were blowing teams out in the East and a top 3 defensive team in the playoffs.

At this point its comical how defensive you are when it comes to Cleveland. Maybe we should crown Cleveland as champions then? I think you are a better Cleveland fan than most Cleveland fans on FTS, which is very odd considering you are a mod here.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Phantom255x on March 22, 2018, 11:55:15 AM
The Cavs played one of their best games of the season against the Raptors. Their starting 5 in double-figures. Kevin Love with a double-double after a lengthy absence. LeBron James resumes his dominance.

They look like they are peaking at the right time...dan-ger-ous for the rest of the East.

They won by 3 points despite Lebron going off, Hill shooting 10-for-11, and Hill / Calderon / Love / Green shooting 12-for-16 from deep.
While giving up 129 points in regulation play.

If the Cavs are giving up 120+ points a game in the playoffs, they are losing the vast, vast, vast majority of those games. The Cavs defense is awful and I don't see them throwing the switch and suddenly holding teams to 100 ppg in the playoffs.

This isn't the same team of the last three years. Lebron defensively is not the same player. Clarkson, Nance, Osman have no playoff experience. Smith and Thompson seem shells of their former selves. Hill is no Kyrie and lord knows if Love is going to be Minnesota Love, Cleveland 2016 Love or I am injured AND have anxiety problems Love.
They have better individual defenders this year then they did last year and they entered last year playing as a bottom 3 defense for the entire second half of the year before turning it on in the playoffs and finishing as a top 3 defense in the playoffs.  Obviously, they will miss Irving's scoring and ability to take games over, but Hill is a better defender and better 3 point shooter than Irving (Irving is obviously a much much better player).  Instead of Smith, Shumpert, and Deron Williams, they will have Hood, Smith, and Clarkson, which is a much better 3 some on both ends of the floor.  Korver is Korver and Thompson is Thompson, though Thompson will get far less minutes this year and will come off the bench rather than start.  They will replace Frye and R. Jefferson with Green and Nance.  They have guys like Osman and Zizic on the deep bench instead of Derrick Williams, James Jones, and Dahntay Jones.

In other words, defensively they have the potential to be far better then they were last year, when they were blowing teams out in the East and a top 3 defensive team in the playoffs.

At this point its comical how defensive you are when it comes to Cleveland. Maybe we should crown Cleveland as champions then? I think you are a better Cleveland fan than most Cleveland fans on FTS, which is very odd considering you are a mod here.

It's getting to the point where I feel like someone could simply bring up Cedi Osman and Jayson Tatum, and Moranis would formulate an argument that Osman >>> Tatum  :laugh:
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Vermont Green on March 22, 2018, 12:16:04 PM
Love is back and the Cavs are playing better (at least offensively).  I am not a huge Love fan, I don't think he is a superstar but he makes a big difference for Cleveland.  Thompson will be back for the playoffs too likely along with both Hood and Nance.  Don't be fooled by the Cavs record.  They are going to be formidable in the playoffs.

And George Hill is a perfect PG for them.  10-11 from the field?  Lebron with 17 assists?  Hill and Love allow Lebron to get those assists.  Solid players who know where to be and can knock down the open shots that Lebron creates.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 22, 2018, 12:21:36 PM
The Cavs played one of their best games of the season against the Raptors. Their starting 5 in double-figures. Kevin Love with a double-double after a lengthy absence. LeBron James resumes his dominance.

They look like they are peaking at the right time...dan-ger-ous for the rest of the East.

They won by 3 points despite Lebron going off, Hill shooting 10-for-11, and Hill / Calderon / Love / Green shooting 12-for-16 from deep.
While giving up 129 points in regulation play.

If the Cavs are giving up 120+ points a game in the playoffs, they are losing the vast, vast, vast majority of those games. The Cavs defense is awful and I don't see them throwing the switch and suddenly holding teams to 100 ppg in the playoffs.

This isn't the same team of the last three years. Lebron defensively is not the same player. Clarkson, Nance, Osman have no playoff experience. Smith and Thompson seem shells of their former selves. Hill is no Kyrie and lord knows if Love is going to be Minnesota Love, Cleveland 2016 Love or I am injured AND have anxiety problems Love.
They have better individual defenders this year then they did last year and they entered last year playing as a bottom 3 defense for the entire second half of the year before turning it on in the playoffs and finishing as a top 3 defense in the playoffs.  Obviously, they will miss Irving's scoring and ability to take games over, but Hill is a better defender and better 3 point shooter than Irving (Irving is obviously a much much better player).  Instead of Smith, Shumpert, and Deron Williams, they will have Hood, Smith, and Clarkson, which is a much better 3 some on both ends of the floor.  Korver is Korver and Thompson is Thompson, though Thompson will get far less minutes this year and will come off the bench rather than start.  They will replace Frye and R. Jefferson with Green and Nance.  They have guys like Osman and Zizic on the deep bench instead of Derrick Williams, James Jones, and Dahntay Jones.

In other words, defensively they have the potential to be far better then they were last year, when they were blowing teams out in the East and a top 3 defensive team in the playoffs.

At this point its comical how defensive you are when it comes to Cleveland. Maybe we should crown Cleveland as champions then? I think you are a better Cleveland fan than most Cleveland fans on FTS, which is very odd considering you are a mod here.
how about you comment on the content of the post and not the poster.  Think you can handle that?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 22, 2018, 12:22:48 PM
The Cavs played one of their best games of the season against the Raptors. Their starting 5 in double-figures. Kevin Love with a double-double after a lengthy absence. LeBron James resumes his dominance.

They look like they are peaking at the right time...dan-ger-ous for the rest of the East.

They won by 3 points despite Lebron going off, Hill shooting 10-for-11, and Hill / Calderon / Love / Green shooting 12-for-16 from deep.
While giving up 129 points in regulation play.

If the Cavs are giving up 120+ points a game in the playoffs, they are losing the vast, vast, vast majority of those games. The Cavs defense is awful and I don't see them throwing the switch and suddenly holding teams to 100 ppg in the playoffs.

This isn't the same team of the last three years. Lebron defensively is not the same player. Clarkson, Nance, Osman have no playoff experience. Smith and Thompson seem shells of their former selves. Hill is no Kyrie and lord knows if Love is going to be Minnesota Love, Cleveland 2016 Love or I am injured AND have anxiety problems Love.
They have better individual defenders this year then they did last year and they entered last year playing as a bottom 3 defense for the entire second half of the year before turning it on in the playoffs and finishing as a top 3 defense in the playoffs.  Obviously, they will miss Irving's scoring and ability to take games over, but Hill is a better defender and better 3 point shooter than Irving (Irving is obviously a much much better player).  Instead of Smith, Shumpert, and Deron Williams, they will have Hood, Smith, and Clarkson, which is a much better 3 some on both ends of the floor.  Korver is Korver and Thompson is Thompson, though Thompson will get far less minutes this year and will come off the bench rather than start.  They will replace Frye and R. Jefferson with Green and Nance.  They have guys like Osman and Zizic on the deep bench instead of Derrick Williams, James Jones, and Dahntay Jones.

In other words, defensively they have the potential to be far better then they were last year, when they were blowing teams out in the East and a top 3 defensive team in the playoffs.

At this point its comical how defensive you are when it comes to Cleveland. Maybe we should crown Cleveland as champions then? I think you are a better Cleveland fan than most Cleveland fans on FTS, which is very odd considering you are a mod here.

It's getting to the point where I feel like someone could simply bring up Cedi Osman and Jayson Tatum, and Moranis would formulate an argument that Osman >>> Tatum  :laugh:

 I actually read the Cavs forum because their thread on the Nets pick is pretty hilarious after seeing us all go through it the last few years. His takes on some of this stuff is more optimistic than what I usually see over there. One example is Thompson is really loathed for his effort this year and there is a pretty big consensus the team is better off with him injured and not being gifted minutes by Lue. On here we get strange per 36 numbers and just a complete dismissal of his horrid play that has sunk most lineups he has been a part of.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: ChillyWilly on March 22, 2018, 12:23:28 PM
This is the least scared I've been of Lebron since his first run in Cleveland. He's still Lebron but this year feels like he's swimming really hard just to stay above water.

Celtics need to be healthy though, Brad isn't going to beat Lebron by himself.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: nickagneta on March 22, 2018, 04:19:55 PM
The Cavs played one of their best games of the season against the Raptors. Their starting 5 in double-figures. Kevin Love with a double-double after a lengthy absence. LeBron James resumes his dominance.

They look like they are peaking at the right time...dan-ger-ous for the rest of the East.

They won by 3 points despite Lebron going off, Hill shooting 10-for-11, and Hill / Calderon / Love / Green shooting 12-for-16 from deep.
While giving up 129 points in regulation play.

If the Cavs are giving up 120+ points a game in the playoffs, they are losing the vast, vast, vast majority of those games. The Cavs defense is awful and I don't see them throwing the switch and suddenly holding teams to 100 ppg in the playoffs.

This isn't the same team of the last three years. Lebron defensively is not the same player. Clarkson, Nance, Osman have no playoff experience. Smith and Thompson seem shells of their former selves. Hill is no Kyrie and lord knows if Love is going to be Minnesota Love, Cleveland 2016 Love or I am injured AND have anxiety problems Love.
They have better individual defenders this year then they did last year and they entered last year playing as a bottom 3 defense for the entire second half of the year before turning it on in the playoffs and finishing as a top 3 defense in the playoffs.  Obviously, they will miss Irving's scoring and ability to take games over, but Hill is a better defender and better 3 point shooter than Irving (Irving is obviously a much much better player).  Instead of Smith, Shumpert, and Deron Williams, they will have Hood, Smith, and Clarkson, which is a much better 3 some on both ends of the floor.  Korver is Korver and Thompson is Thompson, though Thompson will get far less minutes this year and will come off the bench rather than start.  They will replace Frye and R. Jefferson with Green and Nance.  They have guys like Osman and Zizic on the deep bench instead of Derrick Williams, James Jones, and Dahntay Jones.

In other words, defensively they have the potential to be far better then they were last year, when they were blowing teams out in the East and a top 3 defensive team in the playoffs.
Just cause it snowed out yesterday doesn't mean its going to snow out today. Its not often that one of the worst defensive teams in the entire league entering the playoffs, flips a switch and suddenly becomes a top defensive team in the playoffs. Maybe teams that have a 7-8 man core of vets that have been together a while. But a team just thrown together weeks ago that's going to have 2-3 players with no experience in the playoffs? I don't see it happening. Just because a different group did it last year doesn't mean this group, or heck, even that same group, could do it again.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on March 22, 2018, 04:31:34 PM
The Cavs played one of their best games of the season against the Raptors. Their starting 5 in double-figures. Kevin Love with a double-double after a lengthy absence. LeBron James resumes his dominance.

They look like they are peaking at the right time...dan-ger-ous for the rest of the East.

They won by 3 points despite Lebron going off, Hill shooting 10-for-11, and Hill / Calderon / Love / Green shooting 12-for-16 from deep.
While giving up 129 points in regulation play.

If the Cavs are giving up 120+ points a game in the playoffs, they are losing the vast, vast, vast majority of those games. The Cavs defense is awful and I don't see them throwing the switch and suddenly holding teams to 100 ppg in the playoffs.

This isn't the same team of the last three years. Lebron defensively is not the same player. Clarkson, Nance, Osman have no playoff experience. Smith and Thompson seem shells of their former selves. Hill is no Kyrie and lord knows if Love is going to be Minnesota Love, Cleveland 2016 Love or I am injured AND have anxiety problems Love.
They have better individual defenders this year then they did last year and they entered last year playing as a bottom 3 defense for the entire second half of the year before turning it on in the playoffs and finishing as a top 3 defense in the playoffs.  Obviously, they will miss Irving's scoring and ability to take games over, but Hill is a better defender and better 3 point shooter than Irving (Irving is obviously a much much better player).  Instead of Smith, Shumpert, and Deron Williams, they will have Hood, Smith, and Clarkson, which is a much better 3 some on both ends of the floor.  Korver is Korver and Thompson is Thompson, though Thompson will get far less minutes this year and will come off the bench rather than start.  They will replace Frye and R. Jefferson with Green and Nance.  They have guys like Osman and Zizic on the deep bench instead of Derrick Williams, James Jones, and Dahntay Jones.

In other words, defensively they have the potential to be far better then they were last year, when they were blowing teams out in the East and a top 3 defensive team in the playoffs.
Just cause it snowed out yesterday doesn't mean its going to snow out today. Its not often that one of the worst defensive teams in the entire league entering the playoffs, flips a switch and suddenly becomes a top defensive team in the playoffs. Maybe teams that have a 7-8 man core of vets that have been together a while. But a team just thrown together weeks ago that's going to have 2-3 players with no experience in the playoffs? I don't see it happening. Just because a different group did it last year doesn't mean this group, or heck, even that same group, could do it again.

Quote
Just cause it snowed out yesterday doesn't mean its going to snow out today.

Unless you live in Maine.

Otherwise I agree. Furthermore, last year’s team was 21st in defensive rating, bad but not in the basement. They coasted in the latter part of the season, but showed at times that they were capable.

This year’s team is ranked 29th, and there hasn’t been any time this season where the defense looked decent.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 22, 2018, 05:47:25 PM
The Cavs played one of their best games of the season against the Raptors. Their starting 5 in double-figures. Kevin Love with a double-double after a lengthy absence. LeBron James resumes his dominance.

They look like they are peaking at the right time...dan-ger-ous for the rest of the East.

They won by 3 points despite Lebron going off, Hill shooting 10-for-11, and Hill / Calderon / Love / Green shooting 12-for-16 from deep.
While giving up 129 points in regulation play.

If the Cavs are giving up 120+ points a game in the playoffs, they are losing the vast, vast, vast majority of those games. The Cavs defense is awful and I don't see them throwing the switch and suddenly holding teams to 100 ppg in the playoffs.

This isn't the same team of the last three years. Lebron defensively is not the same player. Clarkson, Nance, Osman have no playoff experience. Smith and Thompson seem shells of their former selves. Hill is no Kyrie and lord knows if Love is going to be Minnesota Love, Cleveland 2016 Love or I am injured AND have anxiety problems Love.
They have better individual defenders this year then they did last year and they entered last year playing as a bottom 3 defense for the entire second half of the year before turning it on in the playoffs and finishing as a top 3 defense in the playoffs.  Obviously, they will miss Irving's scoring and ability to take games over, but Hill is a better defender and better 3 point shooter than Irving (Irving is obviously a much much better player).  Instead of Smith, Shumpert, and Deron Williams, they will have Hood, Smith, and Clarkson, which is a much better 3 some on both ends of the floor.  Korver is Korver and Thompson is Thompson, though Thompson will get far less minutes this year and will come off the bench rather than start.  They will replace Frye and R. Jefferson with Green and Nance.  They have guys like Osman and Zizic on the deep bench instead of Derrick Williams, James Jones, and Dahntay Jones.

In other words, defensively they have the potential to be far better then they were last year, when they were blowing teams out in the East and a top 3 defensive team in the playoffs.
Just cause it snowed out yesterday doesn't mean its going to snow out today. Its not often that one of the worst defensive teams in the entire league entering the playoffs, flips a switch and suddenly becomes a top defensive team in the playoffs. Maybe teams that have a 7-8 man core of vets that have been together a while. But a team just thrown together weeks ago that's going to have 2-3 players with no experience in the playoffs? I don't see it happening. Just because a different group did it last year doesn't mean this group, or heck, even that same group, could do it again.

Quote
Just cause it snowed out yesterday doesn't mean its going to snow out today.

Unless you live in Maine.

Otherwise I agree. Furthermore, last year’s team was 21st in defensive rating, bad but not in the basement. They coasted in the latter part of the season, but showed at times that they were capable.

This year’s team is ranked 29th, and there hasn’t been any time this season where the defense looked decent.

Even in yesterday's game, which was absolutely playoff intensity, they couldn't stop Toronto. They were on fire from 3 and really stole a win because of it. They shot 62% on 24 threes, and they definitely were not all wide open with Smith hitting several guarded pullups (4 of 6 from 3). Even Jeff Green who entered the game on a 8-39 stretch from 3 and the ire of Cavs fans hit 50%. If they shoot even 45% from 3 they lose the game on their home court. I definitely think they can win some games on their homecourt but they won't have it against Toronto in a series and tough to just ignore 7 months of basketball because of how a team with different and younger players performed in years past.   

Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 22, 2018, 07:27:55 PM
The Cavs played one of their best games of the season against the Raptors. Their starting 5 in double-figures. Kevin Love with a double-double after a lengthy absence. LeBron James resumes his dominance.

They look like they are peaking at the right time...dan-ger-ous for the rest of the East.

They won by 3 points despite Lebron going off, Hill shooting 10-for-11, and Hill / Calderon / Love / Green shooting 12-for-16 from deep.
While giving up 129 points in regulation play.

If the Cavs are giving up 120+ points a game in the playoffs, they are losing the vast, vast, vast majority of those games. The Cavs defense is awful and I don't see them throwing the switch and suddenly holding teams to 100 ppg in the playoffs.

This isn't the same team of the last three years. Lebron defensively is not the same player. Clarkson, Nance, Osman have no playoff experience. Smith and Thompson seem shells of their former selves. Hill is no Kyrie and lord knows if Love is going to be Minnesota Love, Cleveland 2016 Love or I am injured AND have anxiety problems Love.
They have better individual defenders this year then they did last year and they entered last year playing as a bottom 3 defense for the entire second half of the year before turning it on in the playoffs and finishing as a top 3 defense in the playoffs.  Obviously, they will miss Irving's scoring and ability to take games over, but Hill is a better defender and better 3 point shooter than Irving (Irving is obviously a much much better player).  Instead of Smith, Shumpert, and Deron Williams, they will have Hood, Smith, and Clarkson, which is a much better 3 some on both ends of the floor.  Korver is Korver and Thompson is Thompson, though Thompson will get far less minutes this year and will come off the bench rather than start.  They will replace Frye and R. Jefferson with Green and Nance.  They have guys like Osman and Zizic on the deep bench instead of Derrick Williams, James Jones, and Dahntay Jones.

In other words, defensively they have the potential to be far better then they were last year, when they were blowing teams out in the East and a top 3 defensive team in the playoffs.
Just cause it snowed out yesterday doesn't mean its going to snow out today. Its not often that one of the worst defensive teams in the entire league entering the playoffs, flips a switch and suddenly becomes a top defensive team in the playoffs. Maybe teams that have a 7-8 man core of vets that have been together a while. But a team just thrown together weeks ago that's going to have 2-3 players with no experience in the playoffs? I don't see it happening. Just because a different group did it last year doesn't mean this group, or heck, even that same group, could do it again.

Quote
Just cause it snowed out yesterday doesn't mean its going to snow out today.

Unless you live in Maine.

Otherwise I agree. Furthermore, last year’s team was 21st in defensive rating, bad but not in the basement. They coasted in the latter part of the season, but showed at times that they were capable.

This year’s team is ranked 29th, and there hasn’t been any time this season where the defense looked decent.
They had about 10 games(from the trade to the recent injuries to Hood/Nance) where they were solid but unspectacular.

check mate. Cavs are back.

Edit: while true that the Cavs did have a 10 game stretch of OK defense, I don't disagree with your point and largely make this comment tongue in cheek. Cleveland's defense is bad. It's that simple. Maybe Hood and Nance and Hill are healthy and locked in in the playoffs, but really it will come down to Lebron. Can Lebron perform at an all-world level on offense and mantain the necessary work rate on defense to perform like a DPOY type and carry that defense to acceptable levels. I doubt it. Still think the Cavs come out of the East, but could see Toronto dethroning them.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 22, 2018, 11:17:30 PM
The Cavs played one of their best games of the season against the Raptors. Their starting 5 in double-figures. Kevin Love with a double-double after a lengthy absence. LeBron James resumes his dominance.

They look like they are peaking at the right time...dan-ger-ous for the rest of the East.

They won by 3 points despite Lebron going off, Hill shooting 10-for-11, and Hill / Calderon / Love / Green shooting 12-for-16 from deep.
While giving up 129 points in regulation play.

If the Cavs are giving up 120+ points a game in the playoffs, they are losing the vast, vast, vast majority of those games. The Cavs defense is awful and I don't see them throwing the switch and suddenly holding teams to 100 ppg in the playoffs.

This isn't the same team of the last three years. Lebron defensively is not the same player. Clarkson, Nance, Osman have no playoff experience. Smith and Thompson seem shells of their former selves. Hill is no Kyrie and lord knows if Love is going to be Minnesota Love, Cleveland 2016 Love or I am injured AND have anxiety problems Love.
They have better individual defenders this year then they did last year and they entered last year playing as a bottom 3 defense for the entire second half of the year before turning it on in the playoffs and finishing as a top 3 defense in the playoffs.  Obviously, they will miss Irving's scoring and ability to take games over, but Hill is a better defender and better 3 point shooter than Irving (Irving is obviously a much much better player).  Instead of Smith, Shumpert, and Deron Williams, they will have Hood, Smith, and Clarkson, which is a much better 3 some on both ends of the floor.  Korver is Korver and Thompson is Thompson, though Thompson will get far less minutes this year and will come off the bench rather than start.  They will replace Frye and R. Jefferson with Green and Nance.  They have guys like Osman and Zizic on the deep bench instead of Derrick Williams, James Jones, and Dahntay Jones.

In other words, defensively they have the potential to be far better then they were last year, when they were blowing teams out in the East and a top 3 defensive team in the playoffs.
Just cause it snowed out yesterday doesn't mean its going to snow out today. Its not often that one of the worst defensive teams in the entire league entering the playoffs, flips a switch and suddenly becomes a top defensive team in the playoffs. Maybe teams that have a 7-8 man core of vets that have been together a while. But a team just thrown together weeks ago that's going to have 2-3 players with no experience in the playoffs? I don't see it happening. Just because a different group did it last year doesn't mean this group, or heck, even that same group, could do it again.
the Cavs that will enter the playoffs aren't the same team that has been this bad though.  That was the point I was making.  They added bettwr defenders then they had most of the year.  If they ever get healthy they will be better on that end of the floor.  They won't be a lock down elite defense, but they certainly have the potential to be good enough to at least get out of the East.  You are right tjey may not do it and tjey certainly could be too injured to do it, only time will tell.  I just have a hard time ruling out the team that has the best player in the world and is 36-5 in the East in the playoffs the last three seasons.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 23, 2018, 08:43:51 PM
Nance, Hood, and Thompson are all back tonight.  Be curious to see if they all stay healthy
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: SparzWizard on March 24, 2018, 01:20:40 AM
Cavaliers dismantled the Suns. LBJ, Love, Smith, Clarkson and Nance all played exceptionally well. The East still goes through them I guess.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: RockinRyA on March 24, 2018, 02:06:38 AM
Cavaliers dismantled the Suns.

Doesn't everybody?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: SparzWizard on March 24, 2018, 02:09:04 AM
Cavaliers dismantled the Suns.

Doesn't everybody?

Not Dallas.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 24, 2018, 04:51:49 AM
Cavaliers dismantled the Suns. LBJ, Love, Smith, Clarkson and Nance all played exceptionally well. The East still goes through them I guess.

I honestly haven no idea if this is sarcastic or not, but if not, suns have lost 25 of 27 and probably would lose to the Washington generals right now (I really do hope you were kidding)
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 25, 2018, 01:41:54 PM
Cavaliers dismantled the Suns. LBJ, Love, Smith, Clarkson and Nance all played exceptionally well. The East still goes through them I guess.
They beat the Phoenix freaking Suns.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: footey on March 25, 2018, 02:17:46 PM
I think if we can Kyrie and Smart healthy in time for Cavs, it will be a competitive 6-7 game series.

If we had Theis and Hayward, we would beat them in 5-6 games.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 25, 2018, 02:28:05 PM
Cavaliers dismantled the Suns.

Doesn't everybody?

Not Dallas.
They beat the Mavs on January 31st.

This is clear trolling SparWizard
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: SparzWizard on March 25, 2018, 03:05:04 PM
Cavaliers dismantled the Suns.

Doesn't everybody?

Not Dallas.
They beat the Mavs on January 31st.

This is clear trolling SparWizard

Lol nope 102-88 Suns beat the Mavs January 31st.
Nice try!

edit: I got excited reading responses and misread your comment, but indeed they beat the Mavs. My bad  ;D
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Atzar on March 25, 2018, 03:15:44 PM
D'Angelo Russell has been the Cavs second-best player today.  2-8, 0 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block, 3 turnovers, foul trouble throughout. 

Brooklyn might have won this game without Russell. 

EDIT:  Couple of after-the-game-was-decided threes made his line look better.  Finished 4-11 for 12 points. 

Bummer.  Brooklyn could have helped us on two fronts today, and looked poised to do it for a while.  Then the fourth quarter happened.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: footey on March 25, 2018, 03:25:17 PM
D'Angelo Russell has been the Cavs second-best player today.  2-8, 0 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block, 3 turnovers, foul trouble throughout. 

Brooklyn might have won this game without Russell.

Looks like Lakers won that trade. Didn’t they get right to draft Kuzma?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Atzar on March 25, 2018, 03:29:07 PM
D'Angelo Russell has been the Cavs second-best player today.  2-8, 0 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block, 3 turnovers, foul trouble throughout. 

Brooklyn might have won this game without Russell.

Looks like Lakers won that trade. Didn’t they get right to draft Kuzma?

Yep.  That was a very good trade for the Lakers.  They offloaded a bad player in Russell and a terrible contract in Mosgov.  Received the Kuzma pick and an expiring contract in Lopez.

Credit where it's due; that's a win.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 26, 2018, 08:19:51 AM
D'Angelo Russell has been the Cavs second-best player today.  2-8, 0 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block, 3 turnovers, foul trouble throughout. 

Brooklyn might have won this game without Russell.

Looks like Lakers won that trade. Didn’t they get right to draft Kuzma?
I'd rather have Russell going forward.  He has way more top end potential and is actually younger than Kuzma. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 27, 2018, 04:24:21 PM
Cleveland gets their first real test at Miami tonight with basically their full rotation playing.  Should be a better gauge of where they are at then the crap they played the last couple of games.  And Spoelstra will be on the bench (he just became a father so that was in question a bit).
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 27, 2018, 04:26:56 PM
Cleveland gets their first real test at Miami tonight with basically their full rotation playing.  Should be a better gauge of where they are at then the crap they played the last couple of games.

I agreed. It is unfortunate half the games right now are glorified exhibitions where the opponent wants to lose. Last nights game against the Suns was a joke for us. Normally that would be a tough game against a young team with fresh legs traveling on the second night of a back to back.
That being said the win against Toronto was a really good win for Cavs. I think the thing to look for is their defense though. Miami doesn't have a superstar shot creator, but does have good ball movement. Will be interesting to see if Cavs can shut them down at all.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: libermaniac on March 27, 2018, 06:16:17 PM
Cleveland gets their first real test at Miami tonight with basically their full rotation playing.  Should be a better gauge of where they are at then the crap they played the last couple of games.

I agreed. It is unfortunate half the games right now are glorified exhibitions where the opponent wants to lose. Last nights game against the Suns was a joke for us. Normally that would be a tough game against a young team with fresh legs traveling on the second night of a back to back.
That being said the win against Toronto was a really good win for Cavs. I think the thing to look for is their defense though. Miami doesn't have a superstar shot creator, but does have good ball movement. Will be interesting to see if Cavs can shut them down at all.

Yes, last night's game was some ugly basketball.  Reminded me of summer league or all-star games ... just hurry it up the court and get a quick shot off.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: ChillyWilly on March 27, 2018, 07:12:55 PM
D'Angelo Russell has been the Cavs second-best player today.  2-8, 0 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block, 3 turnovers, foul trouble throughout. 

Brooklyn might have won this game without Russell.

Looks like Lakers won that trade. Didn’t they get right to draft Kuzma?
I'd rather have Russell going forward.  He has way more top end potential and is actually younger than Kuzma.

Ditto I'll take Russell over Kuzma. Neither are very good defenders but I can see Russell breaking out in the next few year where as Kuz probably playing close to his ceiling now.

Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on March 27, 2018, 09:27:16 PM
Cleveland gets their first real test at Miami tonight with basically their full rotation playing.  Should be a better gauge of where they are at then the crap they played the last couple of games.

I agreed. It is unfortunate half the games right now are glorified exhibitions where the opponent wants to lose. Last nights game against the Suns was a joke for us. Normally that would be a tough game against a young team with fresh legs traveling on the second night of a back to back.
That being said the win against Toronto was a really good win for Cavs. I think the thing to look for is their defense though. Miami doesn't have a superstar shot creator, but does have good ball movement. Will be interesting to see if Cavs can shut them down at all.
and Love gets banged in the mouth and has a tooth loosened and misses the rest of the 1st quarter, though he did come back and play 6 minutes in the 2nd, he was clearly not the same.  That said, the rest of the Cavs look awful and I'm not sure a healthy Love would have made much difference in that 1st half.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on March 28, 2018, 01:02:22 AM
Cleveland gets their first real test at Miami tonight with basically their full rotation playing.  Should be a better gauge of where they are at then the crap they played the last couple of games.

I agreed. It is unfortunate half the games right now are glorified exhibitions where the opponent wants to lose. Last nights game against the Suns was a joke for us. Normally that would be a tough game against a young team with fresh legs traveling on the second night of a back to back.
That being said the win against Toronto was a really good win for Cavs. I think the thing to look for is their defense though. Miami doesn't have a superstar shot creator, but does have good ball movement. Will be interesting to see if Cavs can shut them down at all.
and Love gets banged in the mouth and has a tooth loosened and misses the rest of the 1st quarter, though he did come back and play 6 minutes in the 2nd, he was clearly not the same.  That said, the rest of the Cavs look awful and I'm not sure a healthy Love would have made much difference in that 1st half.
tough loss
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Phantom255x on April 01, 2018, 07:04:46 PM
They'll win, but wow, Cavaliers having trouble against the Mavericks in the 1st half.

And boy, with Kyrie no longer there, Kevin Love is going to have to step up big time it seems for CLE. They aren't horrible, but Hood and Clarkson have looked real average lately for the Cavs. Looking like those few games since the trade deadline were a fluke for the Cavaliers (where people claimed their defense got so much better, they finally had a chance against GSW, etc.)
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on April 01, 2018, 09:08:25 PM
Love and James combine to go 9 of 34.  They got lucky they played the Mavs.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Surferdad on April 02, 2018, 06:58:56 AM
They'll win, but wow, Cavaliers having trouble against the Mavericks in the 1st half.

And boy, with Kyrie no longer there, Kevin Love is going to have to step up big time it seems for CLE. They aren't horrible, but Hood and Clarkson have looked real average lately for the Cavs. Looking like those few games since the trade deadline were a fluke for the Cavaliers (where people claimed their defense got so much better, they finally had a chance against GSW, etc.)
This happens with every Cleveland move, every year.  Pundits saying this one will put them over the top, lol.  James' streak of Finals appearances is finally coming to an end.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: BringToughnessBack on April 02, 2018, 09:49:42 AM
They'll win, but wow, Cavaliers having trouble against the Mavericks in the 1st half.

And boy, with Kyrie no longer there, Kevin Love is going to have to step up big time it seems for CLE. They aren't horrible, but Hood and Clarkson have looked real average lately for the Cavs. Looking like those few games since the trade deadline were a fluke for the Cavaliers (where people claimed their defense got so much better, they finally had a chance against GSW, etc.)
This happens with every Cleveland move, every year.  Pundits saying this one will put them over the top, lol.  James' streak of Finals appearances is finally coming to an end.

It does look possible this year but until some other team and superstar prove they can knock them out and be the Gibraltar rock with 5 minutes to go in big playoff games, it is not going to be easy. The way to get them will be to make sure the game is not close towards the end. If it is, i would bet on Lebron over anyone on the Raptors if that is the final 2. Vs. Kyrie and our team, I think we would have a small to fair chance.

Lebron last lost to an Eastern Conference team in 09-10 vs. our very own Celtics. That is a ridiculous streak to say the least. It would be fitting if we did it to him again but I am just not sure it will be this year without Gordon but it is possible if we can find a way out of the first round.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on April 02, 2018, 01:35:51 PM
They'll win, but wow, Cavaliers having trouble against the Mavericks in the 1st half.

And boy, with Kyrie no longer there, Kevin Love is going to have to step up big time it seems for CLE. They aren't horrible, but Hood and Clarkson have looked real average lately for the Cavs. Looking like those few games since the trade deadline were a fluke for the Cavaliers (where people claimed their defense got so much better, they finally had a chance against GSW, etc.)
This happens with every Cleveland move, every year.  Pundits saying this one will put them over the top, lol.  James' streak of Finals appearances is finally coming to an end.

It does look possible this year but until some other team and superstar prove they can knock them out and be the Gibraltar rock with 5 minutes to go in big playoff games, it is not going to be easy. The way to get them will be to make sure the game is not close towards the end. If it is, i would bet on Lebron over anyone on the Raptors if that is the final 2. Vs. Kyrie and our team, I think we would have a small to fair chance.

Lebron last lost to an Eastern Conference team in 09-10 vs. our very own Celtics. That is a ridiculous streak to say the least. It would be fitting if we did it to him again but I am just not sure it will be this year without Gordon but it is possible if we can find a way out of the first round.
That is where I'm at as well, especially considering, their presumed playoff rotation has yet to play a game together and Love, especially, is still very rusty.  Be interesting to see if they can actually get and stay healthy.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: MattyIce on April 09, 2018, 08:13:36 PM
The Cavaliers are signing 13-year NBA vet Kendrick Perkins with final roster spot for playoffs, league sources tell @Mcten and me. Perkins played part of season at G League affiliate after Cavs released him in preseason.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Donoghus on April 09, 2018, 08:15:28 PM
The Cavaliers are signing 13-year NBA vet Kendrick Perkins with final roster spot for playoffs, league sources tell @Mcten and me. Perkins played part of season at G League affiliate after Cavs released him in preseason.

"Unfortuately, the Cavaliers were unable to come to terms with the fork sticking out of Perkins' back"
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: MattyIce on April 09, 2018, 08:40:34 PM
The Cavaliers are signing 13-year NBA vet Kendrick Perkins with final roster spot for playoffs, league sources tell @Mcten and me. Perkins played part of season at G League affiliate after Cavs released him in preseason.

"Unfortuately, the Cavaliers were unable to come to terms with the fork sticking out of Perkins' back"

link?😉
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on April 09, 2018, 09:03:56 PM
The league is a better place with Perk in it. I’d take him over Nader for a playoff run.  He’s got no skills, but he’s big and mean.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: stb on April 09, 2018, 09:13:56 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23095180/kendrick-perkins-signs-cleveland-cavaliers-final-spot-playoff-roster
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celts10 on April 09, 2018, 09:28:16 PM
The Cavaliers are signing 13-year NBA vet Kendrick Perkins with final roster spot for playoffs, league sources tell @Mcten and me. Perkins played part of season at G League affiliate after Cavs released him in preseason.

Wow. Jeff Green and Kendrick Perkins on the same bench together.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on April 09, 2018, 11:27:41 PM
The league is a better place with Perk in it. I’d take him over Nader for a playoff run.  He’s got no skills, but he’s big and mean.

Truer words have never been spoken.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: blink on April 09, 2018, 11:30:10 PM
The Cavaliers are signing 13-year NBA vet Kendrick Perkins with final roster spot for playoffs, league sources tell @Mcten and me. Perkins played part of season at G League affiliate after Cavs released him in preseason.

"Unfortuately, the Cavaliers were unable to come to terms with the fork sticking out of Perkins' back"

ok that was funny.  I love perk, but...anyways TP!
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on April 11, 2018, 09:25:18 AM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years). 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: footey on April 11, 2018, 09:32:24 AM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).

Whoopee
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Donoghus on April 11, 2018, 09:32:39 AM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).

Do they raise a banner for that?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: hardlyyardley on April 11, 2018, 09:41:24 AM
C's are better off losing to Brooklyn tonight.....pushes pick for Cavs lower
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on April 11, 2018, 09:44:33 AM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).

Do they raise a banner for that?
Well technically teams do have banners for winning the division, but generally the answer is No.  However, they don't raise banners for MVP's, All Star Appearances, being the all time leading scorer, and countless other things.  It doesn't make it any less of an accomplishment.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: kraidstar on April 11, 2018, 10:18:42 AM
Well, Tristan Thompson isn't going to win any father/husband of the year awards.

He's been a very busy boy it seems... Not going to post a link, but he is sickening.

Just when you thought the Cavs couldn't get any more unlikable.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: footey on April 11, 2018, 10:38:14 AM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).

Do they raise a banner for that?
Well technically teams do have banners for winning the division, but generally the answer is No.  However, they don't raise banners for MVP's, All Star Appearances, being the all time leading scorer, and countless other things.  It doesn't make it any less of an accomplishment.

Lebron going to 7 straight finals is far more impressive even though he lost the majority of them.

You have understand that most of us on this blog are also Patriot fans. We understand better than others the meaninglessness of “division” titles. Championship or failure.

That is also the tradition of this great Celtic franchise. You point out that the Cavs surpassed the Celtics’ 9 consecutive division titles. You neglected to mention that 8 of those resulted in NBA championships. 3 times as many as Ohio’s beloved native son’s. Details, details.

Enjoy your celebration!

Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: fairweatherfan on April 11, 2018, 11:31:53 AM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).

Do they raise a banner for that?
Well technically teams do have banners for winning the division, but generally the answer is No.  However, they don't raise banners for MVP's, All Star Appearances, being the all time leading scorer, and countless other things.  It doesn't make it any less of an accomplishment.

Lebron going to 7 straight finals is far more impressive even though he lost the majority of them.

You have understand that most of us on this blog are also Patriot fans. We understand better than others the meaninglessness of “division” titles. Championship or failure.

That is also the tradition of this great Celtic franchise. You point out that the Cavs surpassed the Celtics’ 9 consecutive division titles. You neglected to mention that 8 of those resulted in NBA championships. 3 times as many as Ohio’s beloved native son’s. Details, details.

Enjoy your celebration!

Not to be nitpicky but the Cavs didn't surpass Boston's streak, LeBron did as an individual. Celtics continue to hold the team record, not that it's one we hold dear.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: footey on April 11, 2018, 01:00:11 PM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).

Do they raise a banner for that?
Well technically teams do have banners for winning the division, but generally the answer is No.  However, they don't raise banners for MVP's, All Star Appearances, being the all time leading scorer, and countless other things.  It doesn't make it any less of an accomplishment.

Lebron going to 7 straight finals is far more impressive even though he lost the majority of them.

You have understand that most of us on this blog are also Patriot fans. We understand better than others the meaninglessness of “division” titles. Championship or failure.

That is also the tradition of this great Celtic franchise. You point out that the Cavs surpassed the Celtics’ 9 consecutive division titles. You neglected to mention that 8 of those resulted in NBA championships. 3 times as many as Ohio’s beloved native son’s. Details, details.

Enjoy your celebration!

Not to be nitpicky but the Cavs didn't surpass Boston's streak, LeBron did as an individual. Celtics continue to hold the team record, not that it's one we hold dear.

TP for that clarification thx.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on April 11, 2018, 02:08:39 PM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).

Whoopee

My reaction as well. Seems like divisions will be gotten rid of at some point because they are so meaningless so record may stand forever.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on April 11, 2018, 02:22:10 PM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).

Whoopee

My reaction as well. Seems like divisions will be gotten rid of at some point because they are so meaningless so record may stand forever.
I don't think it is a big deal in the scheme of things, but any time you do something that has never been done before it is still impressive.  I was honestly surprised that Bill's Celtics and Magic's Lakers never did it (the Lakers also had 9 straight seasons of winning the division). 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: nickagneta on April 11, 2018, 02:27:02 PM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).
In other news, the Celtics of the 50's/60's won 11 NBA championships and Lebron only 3. Guess Lebron can have that division titles record.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on April 11, 2018, 08:01:33 PM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).
In other news, the Celtics of the 50's/60's won 11 NBA championships and Lebron only 3. Guess Lebron can have that division titles record.

Yep. Also, the 80s Lakers won nine straight, and had 54 and 58 wins the season before and after the streak, respectively.  Magic finished with five titles.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: More Banners on April 11, 2018, 09:31:29 PM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).

Whoopee

My reaction as well. Seems like divisions will be gotten rid of at some point because they are so meaningless so record may stand forever.
I don't think it is a big deal in the scheme of things, but any time you do something that has never been done before it is still impressive.  I was honestly surprised that Bill's Celtics and Magic's Lakers never did it (the Lakers also had 9 straight seasons of winning the division).

You gotta look at the competition. The east has generally been subpar as a whole lately, while in Russ' day the powerhouses were all in the big northeast cities.  - Knicks and sixers.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: gouki88 on April 11, 2018, 09:51:27 PM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).
In other news, the Celtics of the 50's/60's won 11 NBA championships and Lebron only 3. Guess Lebron can have that division titles record.
Rofl, TP.

Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on April 12, 2018, 08:10:19 AM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).
In other news, the Celtics of the 50's/60's won 11 NBA championships and Lebron only 3. Guess Lebron can have that division titles record.

Yep. Also, the 80s Lakers won nine straight, and had 54 and 58 wins the season before and after the streak, respectively.  Magic finished with five titles.
Sure and the Cavs won 50, 50, 45 including a trip to finals before that division winning streak started as well. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Roy H. on April 12, 2018, 10:42:26 AM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).
In other news, the Celtics of the 50's/60's won 11 NBA championships and Lebron only 3. Guess Lebron can have that division titles record.

Yep. Also, the 80s Lakers won nine straight, and had 54 and 58 wins the season before and after the streak, respectively.  Magic finished with five titles.
Sure and the Cavs won 50, 50, 45 including a trip to finals before that division winning streak started as well.

The Celtics won 52+ games every year of Bird’s career other than the season where he missed 76 games.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on April 12, 2018, 12:36:04 PM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).
In other news, the Celtics of the 50's/60's won 11 NBA championships and Lebron only 3. Guess Lebron can have that division titles record.

Yep. Also, the 80s Lakers won nine straight, and had 54 and 58 wins the season before and after the streak, respectively.  Magic finished with five titles.
Sure and the Cavs won 50, 50, 45 including a trip to finals before that division winning streak started as well.

The Celtics won 52+ games every year of Bird’s career other than the season where he missed 76 games.

If anyone does not need a cheerleader for them it is Lebron. Guy has argued he should be the MVP this year, repeatedly talked about how he is aging like fine wine, wrote an instagram congratulating himself for the amount of points he scored. Yet, here we are with a thread pumping up how impressive it is he has won a bunch of division titles in a year his team finished 4th in a god awful conference.

Related to this it would have been fascinating to see what kind of numbers Bird could have put up coming out of highschool and without a back injury. How many titles does he have? Bird only had, what,  10 full seasons before his back made him a shell of himself?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: liam on April 12, 2018, 01:49:01 PM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).
In other news, the Celtics of the 50's/60's won 11 NBA championships and Lebron only 3. Guess Lebron can have that division titles record.

Yep. Also, the 80s Lakers won nine straight, and had 54 and 58 wins the season before and after the streak, respectively.  Magic finished with five titles.
Sure and the Cavs won 50, 50, 45 including a trip to finals before that division winning streak started as well.

The Celtics won 52+ games every year of Bird’s career other than the season where he missed 76 games.

If anyone does not need a cheerleader for them it is Lebron. Guy has argued he should be the MVP this year, repeatedly talked about how he is aging like fine wine, wrote an instagram congratulating himself for the amount of points he scored. Yet, here we are with a thread pumping up how impressive it is he has won a bunch of division titles in a year his team finished 4th in a god awful conference.

Related to this it would have been fascinating to see what kind of numbers Bird could have put up coming out of highschool and without a back injury. How many titles does he have? Bird only had, what,  10 full seasons before his back made him a shell of himself?

Not to mention, Bird with the touch fouls LeBron gets and no hand checks.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on April 12, 2018, 02:11:17 PM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).
In other news, the Celtics of the 50's/60's won 11 NBA championships and Lebron only 3. Guess Lebron can have that division titles record.

Yep. Also, the 80s Lakers won nine straight, and had 54 and 58 wins the season before and after the streak, respectively.  Magic finished with five titles.
Sure and the Cavs won 50, 50, 45 including a trip to finals before that division winning streak started as well.

The Celtics won 52+ games every year of Bird’s career other than the season where he missed 76 games.

If anyone does not need a cheerleader for them it is Lebron. Guy has argued he should be the MVP this year, repeatedly talked about how he is aging like fine wine, wrote an instagram congratulating himself for the amount of points he scored. Yet, here we are with a thread pumping up how impressive it is he has won a bunch of division titles in a year his team finished 4th in a god awful conference.

Related to this it would have been fascinating to see what kind of numbers Bird could have put up coming out of highschool and without a back injury. How many titles does he have? Bird only had, what,  10 full seasons before his back made him a shell of himself?

Not to mention, Bird with the touch fouls LeBron gets and no hand checks.

I was quite young when Bird was at the tail end of his career so I can't say I know how was officiated.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: csfansince60s on April 12, 2018, 02:18:04 PM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).
In other news, the Celtics of the 50's/60's won 11 NBA championships and Lebron only 3. Guess Lebron can have that division titles record.

Yep. Also, the 80s Lakers won nine straight, and had 54 and 58 wins the season before and after the streak, respectively.  Magic finished with five titles.
Sure and the Cavs won 50, 50, 45 including a trip to finals before that division winning streak started as well.

The Celtics won 52+ games every year of Bird’s career other than the season where he missed 76 games.

If anyone does not need a cheerleader for them it is Lebron. Guy has argued he should be the MVP this year, repeatedly talked about how he is aging like fine wine, wrote an instagram congratulating himself for the amount of points he scored. Yet, here we are with a thread pumping up how impressive it is he has won a bunch of division titles in a year his team finished 4th in a god awful conference.

Related to this it would have been fascinating to see what kind of numbers Bird could have put up coming out of highschool and without a back injury. How many titles does he have? Bird only had, what,  10 full seasons before his back made him a shell of himself?

Not to mention, Bird with the touch fouls LeBron gets and no hand checks.

And the trips to Ponce de Leon’s gig in FLA for the curative “waters” or juices or whatever.


Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: blink on April 12, 2018, 02:35:24 PM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).
In other news, the Celtics of the 50's/60's won 11 NBA championships and Lebron only 3. Guess Lebron can have that division titles record.

Yep. Also, the 80s Lakers won nine straight, and had 54 and 58 wins the season before and after the streak, respectively.  Magic finished with five titles.
Sure and the Cavs won 50, 50, 45 including a trip to finals before that division winning streak started as well.

The Celtics won 52+ games every year of Bird’s career other than the season where he missed 76 games.

If anyone does not need a cheerleader for them it is Lebron. Guy has argued he should be the MVP this year, repeatedly talked about how he is aging like fine wine, wrote an instagram congratulating himself for the amount of points he scored. Yet, here we are with a thread pumping up how impressive it is he has won a bunch of division titles in a year his team finished 4th in a god awful conference.


This 100%.  TP.
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Donoghus on April 12, 2018, 02:40:22 PM
Do you even get hats & t-shirts for winning a division title in the NBA?
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Moranis on April 12, 2018, 02:47:34 PM
James' teams have now won their division 10 straight seasons.  He is the only person in NBA history to ever achieve that (the 50's/60's C's did it 9 straight years).
In other news, the Celtics of the 50's/60's won 11 NBA championships and Lebron only 3. Guess Lebron can have that division titles record.

Yep. Also, the 80s Lakers won nine straight, and had 54 and 58 wins the season before and after the streak, respectively.  Magic finished with five titles.
Sure and the Cavs won 50, 50, 45 including a trip to finals before that division winning streak started as well.

The Celtics won 52+ games every year of Bird’s career other than the season where he missed 76 games.
yep and that is a great accomplishment even if it doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things.  Just as it is to have never lost in the 1st round of the playoffs or to win 10 straight division titles or make 7 straight finals.  All great accomplishments, all things that don't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. 
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: Phantom255x on May 01, 2018, 07:04:30 PM
So have any of Hill, Nance, Hood or Clarkson even made a significant contribution for the Cavaliers so far in the playoffs?

Lebron literally had to go 200% and put up 40+ point games just to advance past the 1st round in 7 games.

But remember after the BOS and OKC games after the trade deadline when the Cavaliers were reportedly back and finally had a young, athletic team that could challenge GSW in the Finals! Finally a legit team around Lebron that can go all the way! ::)
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: celticsclay on May 01, 2018, 07:13:12 PM
So have any of Hill, Nance, Hood or Clarkson even made a significant contribution for the Cavaliers so far in the playoffs?

Lebron literally had to go 200% and put up 40+ point games just to advance past the 1st round in 7 games.

But remember after the BOS and OKC games after the trade deadline when the Cavaliers were reportedly back and finally had a young, athletic team that could challenge GSW in the Finals! Finally a legit team around Lebron that can go all the way! ::)

Yea Phantom I'll never forget those takes myself. They were so ridiculous
Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: GC003332 on May 16, 2018, 05:01:54 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23517495/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-facing-boston-celtics-organizational-fatigue-nba

Title: Re: CAVSMAGEDDON!!
Post by: cman88 on May 16, 2018, 07:55:17 AM
Danny ainge not only Fleeced cleveland on the Kyrie Irving trade, he may have actually destroyed the team....