Author Topic: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19  (Read 34050 times)

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Re: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19
« Reply #360 on: December 12, 2019, 11:38:54 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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Unacceptable effort tonight....Where was the fire..? Many chances to go up 10 or more...just let Philly hang around, they ain't that good. C's team seems satisfied to let teams stay in games. You can't have Kemba bail you every game.
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Re: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19
« Reply #361 on: December 12, 2019, 11:47:56 PM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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Tatum's increased load has resulted in decreased efficiency. He's a good player, but he's just not hitting shots. He's still not strong enough to stay in control on drives nor savvy or athletic enough to create consistent FT opportunities. I just don't know if he can improve enough this season at his young age to become the player they need him to be. I would like him to pick his spots better and become more efficient, but he seems intent on chucking it and playing the part of an elite scorer when he doesn't have the ability yet. There's no reason he should be shooting 41% on a team with so much talent. It's not like he's the only scorer on a bad team.

So far this season he's 17th in the league in FGA/G at 17.2, but has the lowest FG% of those players until you get to Kristaps Porzingis at #36 with .398. Basically, he has one of the worst percentages in the league for a high volume player.
Interesting points about Tatum.  I still question his athleticism but until recently he has played pretty well this season I think.  It might be a good time for Brad to think about adjusting his rotation a bit and giving him more rest.  He's probably played some extra minutes with Hayward's injury.

He's had good games to offset the bad ones and he plays good defense so I'm not killing him. I'm just pointing out overall his pct. is still very low for a player taking that many shots on a team with above average depth.

He still can't finish drives consistently enough and can be out of control. He has length but not the strength and you can tell because some of his attempts are of the "wild throw it up there" variety. That means he's not fast or strong enough to get to his spot unbothered by the defender. You still see him occasionally pushing off the defender on drives since he can't get free otherwise, and cradling the ball in his arm like a running back because he doesn't have a strong enough handle/ball control.

Other than that, he just needs to shoot better overall. Even when he gets his shot it's not going in often enough.

Re: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19
« Reply #362 on: December 13, 2019, 12:45:38 AM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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Tatum's increased load has resulted in decreased efficiency. He's a good player, but he's just not hitting shots. He's still not strong enough to stay in control on drives nor savvy or athletic enough to create consistent FT opportunities. I just don't know if he can improve enough this season at his young age to become the player they need him to be. I would like him to pick his spots better and become more efficient, but he seems intent on chucking it and playing the part of an elite scorer when he doesn't have the ability yet. There's no reason he should be shooting 41% on a team with so much talent. It's not like he's the only scorer on a bad team.

So far this season he's 17th in the league in FGA/G at 17.2, but has the lowest FG% of those players until you get to Kristaps Porzingis at #36 with .398. Basically, he has one of the worst percentages in the league for a high volume player.
Interesting points about Tatum.  I still question his athleticism but until recently he has played pretty well this season I think.  It might be a good time for Brad to think about adjusting his rotation a bit and giving him more rest.  He's probably played some extra minutes with Hayward's injury.

He's had good games to offset the bad ones and he plays good defense so I'm not killing him. I'm just pointing out overall his pct. is still very low for a player taking that many shots on a team with above average depth.

He still can't finish drives consistently enough and can be out of control. He has length but not the strength and you can tell because some of his attempts are of the "wild throw it up there" variety. That means he's not fast or strong enough to get to his spot unbothered by the defender. You still see him occasionally pushing off the defender on drives since he can't get free otherwise, and cradling the ball in his arm like a running back because he doesn't have a strong enough handle/ball control.

Other than that, he just needs to shoot better overall. Even when he gets his shot it's not going in often enough.

Basically he's a volume scorer, and those are often detrimental—it takes way too many shots to get his points.

And as bad as the fourth was tonight, let's not forget that the third was pretty bad too.
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Re: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19
« Reply #363 on: December 13, 2019, 01:11:48 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Regarding Tatum, I think he's in a weird spot right now. His impact metrics are excellent - he's near the top of the league in RAPM and most net rating/plus-minus stats. He also passes the eye test with flying colours for most people - he has an offensive repertoire that should belong to a veteran years older than him, he can score on all three levels and play excellent team defence. But he does have some worrying weaknesses - his passing isn't great even though he can now make some really nice reads every now and then, he has a tendency to overdribble a bit, his finishing near the rim is pretty poor due to his lack of strength/muscle and his man defence is suspect. I think as of right now he's an All-Star calibre player (I don't buy that he's as elite as the impact metrics suggest due to the above weaknesses I mentioned, but you can't completely dismiss them due to the significant offensive load he carries on the Celtics), but he has a lot of growing pains to overcome if he wants to be an All-NBA player or better.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19
« Reply #364 on: December 13, 2019, 05:25:49 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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We hung with them with off nights from Brown and Tatum, and no Smart and the 76ers shot 50% from the field on a back to back.   If you had told me that we would have been in the game with those facts I would have doubted you.

 But the sixers have 1980 type size across the board and it hurt us they are almost a throw back team.  I thought Kanter looked decent.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 06:12:20 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19
« Reply #365 on: December 13, 2019, 06:16:19 AM »

Offline mrceltics2013

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Tatum's increased load has resulted in decreased efficiency. He's a good player, but he's just not hitting shots. He's still not strong enough to stay in control on drives nor savvy or athletic enough to create consistent FT opportunities. I just don't know if he can improve enough this season at his young age to become the player they need him to be. I would like him to pick his spots better and become more efficient, but he seems intent on chucking it and playing the part of an elite scorer when he doesn't have the ability yet. There's no reason he should be shooting 41% on a team with so much talent. It's not like he's the only scorer on a bad team.

So far this season he's 17th in the league in FGA/G at 17.2, but has the lowest FG% of those players until you get to Kristaps Porzingis at #36 with .398. Basically, he has one of the worst percentages in the league for a high volume player.
Interesting points about Tatum.  I still question his athleticism but until recently he has played pretty well this season I think.  It might be a good time for Brad to think about adjusting his rotation a bit and giving him more rest.  He's probably played some extra minutes with Hayward's injury.

He's had good games to offset the bad ones and he plays good defense so I'm not killing him. I'm just pointing out overall his pct. is still very low for a player taking that many shots on a team with above average depth.

He still can't finish drives consistently enough and can be out of control. He has length but not the strength and you can tell because some of his attempts are of the "wild throw it up there" variety. That means he's not fast or strong enough to get to his spot unbothered by the defender. You still see him occasionally pushing off the defender on drives since he can't get free otherwise, and cradling the ball in his arm like a running back because he doesn't have a strong enough handle/ball control.

Other than that, he just needs to shoot better overall. Even when he gets his shot it's not going in often enough.

Yall are so delusional when it comes to Tatum and it’s insane. He’s literally only had 1 or 2 good games and has been poor in al the rest. He’s just not good like that! The top of that draft class was just OVERRATED. Time to stop hanging on to what we believe he was going to turn into after a playoff series that was 2 seasons ago ....

Re: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19
« Reply #366 on: December 13, 2019, 06:27:12 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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I think we can all pump the brakes on the comparisons to Kawhi and Paul George....

Re: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19
« Reply #367 on: December 13, 2019, 07:04:59 AM »

Offline Androslav

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I think we can all pump the brakes on the comparisons to Kawhi and Paul George....
Yes, yes and yes! One game determines players whole career and more often than not, it is the very last game guy played.

Kawhi aged 23: game vs Memphis: 31 min, 6 pts (3-10 fg), 6 reb, 3 as
season averages: 64 gm, 31,8 mins, 16,5 pts, 7,2 reb, 2,5 as, splits .479, .349, .802

George aged 23: game vs Charlotte: 34 min, 2 pts (0-9 fg), 7 reb, 1 as
season averages: 80 gm, 36,2 mins, 21,7 pts, 6,8 reb, 3,5 as, splits .424, .364, .884

Brown aged 23: game vs Philly: 41 min, 8 pts (3-9), 5 reb, 2 as
season averages: 21 gm, 33,8 mins, 19,3 pts, 6,9 reb, 2,2 as, splits .500, .374, .734
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 07:13:52 AM by Androslav »
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Re: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19
« Reply #368 on: December 13, 2019, 08:04:52 AM »

Offline mrceltics2013

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I think we can all pump the brakes on the comparisons to Kawhi and Paul George....
Yes, yes and yes! One game determines players whole career and more often than not, it is the very last game guy played.

Kawhi aged 23: game vs Memphis: 31 min, 6 pts (3-10 fg), 6 reb, 3 as
season averages: 64 gm, 31,8 mins, 16,5 pts, 7,2 reb, 2,5 as, splits .479, .349, .802

George aged 23: game vs Charlotte: 34 min, 2 pts (0-9 fg), 7 reb, 1 as
season averages: 80 gm, 36,2 mins, 21,7 pts, 6,8 reb, 3,5 as, splits .424, .364, .884

Brown aged 23: game vs Philly: 41 min, 8 pts (3-9), 5 reb, 2 as
season averages: 21 gm, 33,8 mins, 19,3 pts, 6,9 reb, 2,2 as, splits .500, .374, .734

I’m Very high on JB regardless of last night performance. He was matched up against some really good defenders and they got the best of him tonight. He needed KEMBA and Hayward on the floor with him and the times he got the ball they were out. This seems to be a coaching rotational problem to me.

Re: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19
« Reply #369 on: December 13, 2019, 10:03:44 AM »

Online Kuberski33

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Tatum's increased load has resulted in decreased efficiency. He's a good player, but he's just not hitting shots. He's still not strong enough to stay in control on drives nor savvy or athletic enough to create consistent FT opportunities. I just don't know if he can improve enough this season at his young age to become the player they need him to be. I would like him to pick his spots better and become more efficient, but he seems intent on chucking it and playing the part of an elite scorer when he doesn't have the ability yet. There's no reason he should be shooting 41% on a team with so much talent. It's not like he's the only scorer on a bad team.

So far this season he's 17th in the league in FGA/G at 17.2, but has the lowest FG% of those players until you get to Kristaps Porzingis at #36 with .398. Basically, he has one of the worst percentages in the league for a high volume player.
Interesting points about Tatum.  I still question his athleticism but until recently he has played pretty well this season I think.  It might be a good time for Brad to think about adjusting his rotation a bit and giving him more rest.  He's probably played some extra minutes with Hayward's injury.

He's had good games to offset the bad ones and he plays good defense so I'm not killing him. I'm just pointing out overall his pct. is still very low for a player taking that many shots on a team with above average depth.

He still can't finish drives consistently enough and can be out of control. He has length but not the strength and you can tell because some of his attempts are of the "wild throw it up there" variety. That means he's not fast or strong enough to get to his spot unbothered by the defender. You still see him occasionally pushing off the defender on drives since he can't get free otherwise, and cradling the ball in his arm like a running back because he doesn't have a strong enough handle/ball control.

Other than that, he just needs to shoot better overall. Even when he gets his shot it's not going in often enough.
Excellent analysis. I was ranting about the volume shooting thing early in the season but I thought that got reigned in . It could still be that he's in 'we don't have Hayward' mode so I need to score more - which is to my point that Hayward's injury set the development of the squad back a little bit. 

I don't think he gets to the all star level though without the athleticism part improving - and it still could happen because he's so young.  But speaking to just his shooting, fewer mpg may be the answer. 

The team still has a problem in that there's zero depth on the roster at the wing positions.  As a result all the core guys get heavy minutes because Brad needs to keep a couple of scorers on the court at all times - because none of the fringe guys can put the ball in the basket consistently.

Re: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19
« Reply #370 on: December 13, 2019, 10:30:59 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Tatum's increased load has resulted in decreased efficiency. He's a good player, but he's just not hitting shots. He's still not strong enough to stay in control on drives nor savvy or athletic enough to create consistent FT opportunities. I just don't know if he can improve enough this season at his young age to become the player they need him to be. I would like him to pick his spots better and become more efficient, but he seems intent on chucking it and playing the part of an elite scorer when he doesn't have the ability yet. There's no reason he should be shooting 41% on a team with so much talent. It's not like he's the only scorer on a bad team.

So far this season he's 17th in the league in FGA/G at 17.2, but has the lowest FG% of those players until you get to Kristaps Porzingis at #36 with .398. Basically, he has one of the worst percentages in the league for a high volume player.
Interesting points about Tatum.  I still question his athleticism but until recently he has played pretty well this season I think.  It might be a good time for Brad to think about adjusting his rotation a bit and giving him more rest.  He's probably played some extra minutes with Hayward's injury.

He's had good games to offset the bad ones and he plays good defense so I'm not killing him. I'm just pointing out overall his pct. is still very low for a player taking that many shots on a team with above average depth.

He still can't finish drives consistently enough and can be out of control. He has length but not the strength and you can tell because some of his attempts are of the "wild throw it up there" variety. That means he's not fast or strong enough to get to his spot unbothered by the defender. You still see him occasionally pushing off the defender on drives since he can't get free otherwise, and cradling the ball in his arm like a running back because he doesn't have a strong enough handle/ball control.

Other than that, he just needs to shoot better overall. Even when he gets his shot it's not going in often enough.
Excellent analysis. I was ranting about the volume shooting thing early in the season but I thought that got reigned in . It could still be that he's in 'we don't have Hayward' mode so I need to score more - which is to my point that Hayward's injury set the development of the squad back a little bit. 

I don't think he gets to the all star level though without the athleticism part improving - and it still could happen because he's so young.  But speaking to just his shooting, fewer mpg may be the answer. 

The team still has a problem in that there's zero depth on the roster at the wing positions.  As a result all the core guys get heavy minutes because Brad needs to keep a couple of scorers on the court at all times - because none of the fringe guys can put the ball in the basket consistently.
I think Tatum's top notch team defence pushes him up to All-Star level, his offence isn't great but it's adequate for an All-Star imo.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19
« Reply #371 on: December 13, 2019, 10:56:44 AM »

Offline gpap

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Some disturbing observations from the game last night (and some good signs)

The good was Gordon starting to look his good self again. Not only was he scoring baskets, but he was back to being a playmaker like he had been prior to the hand injury. He's very good at that.

Also, I think Kanter gave it his all and (IMO) is turning into a far better pick-up than we realize.

The bad (well, somewhat bad) - In the 2nd half, as Gordon was becoming a bigger focal point of the offense, it seemed we were seeing less involvement from Jaylen. This is reminiscent of the "too many mouths to feed" issue we had last year. Ideally, it shouldn't matter. Everyone needs to check their ego at the door and buy in as a team. Some guys will get touches, others won't. In the end, it all balances out.

Kemba - I love Kemba as much as the next guy, but last night in the 2nd half, I thought he was playing too much isolated offense.
I think this is more a freak occurrence as we haven't seen this from Kemba all that much, but hope it doesn't turn into a habit.

The killer turnover. Personally, I'm not blaming Jaylen Brown (like Scal did in the post-game show.) I'm also not even blaming Tatum. Jaylen was being smothered by Josh Richardson. What about the 3 other guys on the court? Why didn't one of them pivot towards Tatum to receive the pass. That was just a lapse in judgement that came at the wrong time.

Theis - I get Theis has been pretty solid, but he got abused by Embiid...badly!!

I really think he's being utilized the wrong way. I think he should be coming off the bench as a stretch 4 type to provide offense. He shold not be playing center and not sure when Stevens will get this through his thick head! Play Kanter more AND (I know some on this board hate this being said for whatever reason) but Ainge needs to acquire another center.

That was painfully apparent yesterday. All this talk of being able to win games with wings is bunk and was proven yesterday as being a terrible game plan.

Re: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19
« Reply #372 on: December 13, 2019, 11:04:05 AM »

Online hpantazo

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Some disturbing observations from the game last night (and some good signs)

The good was Gordon starting to look his good self again. Not only was he scoring baskets, but he was back to being a playmaker like he had been prior to the hand injury. He's very good at that.

Also, I think Kanter gave it his all and (IMO) is turning into a far better pick-up than we realize.

The bad (well, somewhat bad) - In the 2nd half, as Gordon was becoming a bigger focal point of the offense, it seemed we were seeing less involvement from Jaylen. This is reminiscent of the "too many mouths to feed" issue we had last year. Ideally, it shouldn't matter. Everyone needs to check their ego at the door and buy in as a team. Some guys will get touches, others won't. In the end, it all balances out.

Kemba - I love Kemba as much as the next guy, but last night in the 2nd half, I thought he was playing too much isolated offense.
I think this is more a freak occurrence as we haven't seen this from Kemba all that much, but hope it doesn't turn into a habit.

The killer turnover. Personally, I'm not blaming Jaylen Brown (like Scal did in the post-game show.) I'm also not even blaming Tatum. Jaylen was being smothered by Josh Richardson. What about the 3 other guys on the court? Why didn't one of them pivot towards Tatum to receive the pass. That was just a lapse in judgement that came at the wrong time.

Theis - I get Theis has been pretty solid, but he got abused by Embiid...badly!!

I really think he's being utilized the wrong way. I think he should be coming off the bench as a stretch 4 type to provide offense. He shold not be playing center and not sure when Stevens will get this through his thick head! Play Kanter more AND (I know some on this board hate this being said for whatever reason) but Ainge needs to acquire another center.

That was painfully apparent yesterday. All this talk of being able to win games with wings is bunk and was proven yesterday as being a terrible game plan.


I agree with all of these points.

Theis just can't defend Embiid. He never has been able to, he never will. We really missed Robert Williams last night. He could have given Embiid some trouble while Kanter rested.

That turnover on the last inbounds pass was a disaster, but yeah, I don't blame Jaylen at all. I blame the rest of the team for not coming back to help out. They all ran downcourt and left Jaylen and the inbounds passer in limbo with no time out to bail them out.

I also think Stevens screwed up by using his one coaches challenge in the first half. He won the challenge and it still didn't help the team at all. Sixers still got the ball and scored afterwards. It would have come in handy several times in the 4th if we still had it available. Especially on that inbounds play where Jaylen got fouled, but also a bit earlier when the Sixers failed to hit the rim but the refs missed the shot clock violation and they scored on an offensive board.

Re: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19
« Reply #373 on: December 13, 2019, 11:06:17 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Some disturbing observations from the game last night (and some good signs)

The good was Gordon starting to look his good self again. Not only was he scoring baskets, but he was back to being a playmaker like he had been prior to the hand injury. He's very good at that.

Also, I think Kanter gave it his all and (IMO) is turning into a far better pick-up than we realize.

The bad (well, somewhat bad) - In the 2nd half, as Gordon was becoming a bigger focal point of the offense, it seemed we were seeing less involvement from Jaylen. This is reminiscent of the "too many mouths to feed" issue we had last year. Ideally, it shouldn't matter. Everyone needs to check their ego at the door and buy in as a team. Some guys will get touches, others won't. In the end, it all balances out.

Kemba - I love Kemba as much as the next guy, but last night in the 2nd half, I thought he was playing too much isolated offense.
I think this is more a freak occurrence as we haven't seen this from Kemba all that much, but hope it doesn't turn into a habit.

The killer turnover. Personally, I'm not blaming Jaylen Brown (like Scal did in the post-game show.) I'm also not even blaming Tatum. Jaylen was being smothered by Josh Richardson. What about the 3 other guys on the court? Why didn't one of them pivot towards Tatum to receive the pass. That was just a lapse in judgement that came at the wrong time.

Theis - I get Theis has been pretty solid, but he got abused by Embiid...badly!!

I really think he's being utilized the wrong way. I think he should be coming off the bench as a stretch 4 type to provide offense. He shold not be playing center and not sure when Stevens will get this through his thick head! Play Kanter more AND (I know some on this board hate this being said for whatever reason) but Ainge needs to acquire another center.

That was painfully apparent yesterday. All this talk of being able to win games with wings is bunk and was proven yesterday as being a terrible game plan.

From what I saw, Theis and Kanter were able to hold their own against Embiid. Not stop them, but at least not allow him to dominate too much.

The Celtics lost on the Wing, which is surprising and frustrating. They have to win their matchups with Harris and Richardson.

Re: 76ers (18-7) at Celtics (17-6) Game #24 12/12/19
« Reply #374 on: December 13, 2019, 11:08:18 AM »

Offline gpap

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Some disturbing observations from the game last night (and some good signs)

The good was Gordon starting to look his good self again. Not only was he scoring baskets, but he was back to being a playmaker like he had been prior to the hand injury. He's very good at that.

Also, I think Kanter gave it his all and (IMO) is turning into a far better pick-up than we realize.

The bad (well, somewhat bad) - In the 2nd half, as Gordon was becoming a bigger focal point of the offense, it seemed we were seeing less involvement from Jaylen. This is reminiscent of the "too many mouths to feed" issue we had last year. Ideally, it shouldn't matter. Everyone needs to check their ego at the door and buy in as a team. Some guys will get touches, others won't. In the end, it all balances out.

Kemba - I love Kemba as much as the next guy, but last night in the 2nd half, I thought he was playing too much isolated offense.
I think this is more a freak occurrence as we haven't seen this from Kemba all that much, but hope it doesn't turn into a habit.

The killer turnover. Personally, I'm not blaming Jaylen Brown (like Scal did in the post-game show.) I'm also not even blaming Tatum. Jaylen was being smothered by Josh Richardson. What about the 3 other guys on the court? Why didn't one of them pivot towards Tatum to receive the pass. That was just a lapse in judgement that came at the wrong time.

Theis - I get Theis has been pretty solid, but he got abused by Embiid...badly!!

I really think he's being utilized the wrong way. I think he should be coming off the bench as a stretch 4 type to provide offense. He shold not be playing center and not sure when Stevens will get this through his thick head! Play Kanter more AND (I know some on this board hate this being said for whatever reason) but Ainge needs to acquire another center.

That was painfully apparent yesterday. All this talk of being able to win games with wings is bunk and was proven yesterday as being a terrible game plan.

From what I saw, Theis and Kanter were able to hold their own against Embiid. Not stop them, but at least not allow him to dominate too much.

The Celtics lost on the Wing, which is surprising and frustrating. They have to win their matchups with Harris and Richardson.

I agree on Kanter. As for Theis, I'm referring mostly to that last play where he didn't up-fake and decided to go straight up and got rejected.