CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: perks-a-beast on August 05, 2018, 11:46:48 AM
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Let's say it's getting close to the trade deadline and Danny thinks the team needs to bolster the front court. Does he consider a quantity for quality trade such as this? Orlando likes Gordon, but start to really like Isaac. They need a point guard and wouldn't mind getting an expiring and a lottery pick in return as well. Boston throws in Yabusele to make the salaries work, so it would be..
ORL gets: Marcus Smart, Marcus Morris, Guerschon Yabusele, MEM pick (probably falls between 9-14)
BOS gets: Aaron Gordon
Celtics roll in to the playoffs with an unreal 8 man rotation of Irving, Hayward, Horford, Gordon, Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Baynes..
Remember that Gordon is one of the better and more versatile defenders in the league and isn't even 23 yet. Reasonable contract for a player of his caliber.
Would you do this? Would Boston need to sweeten the pot?
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I probably wouldn't although I'm a fan of Gordon.
Young, athletic wing/swing player who is good defensively.... Am I describing Tatum, Brown, or Gordon?
Although it would be an overall talent upgrade over the Marcus tandem, I think you do Tatum Brown and Gordon a disservice by splitting those minutes up even more (without even accounting for Hayward) Although Morris is sort of redundant with those guys, Smart gives you a good backup PG who sets a good example with his play. In this hypothetical, which guy sits?
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I'm not against moving Morris with some spare parts and maybe a pick to get a talent upgrade somewhere though. Maybe someone in the mold of Reddick or Korver who can give you another dynamic off the bench.
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Let's say it's getting close to the trade deadline and Danny thinks the team needs to bolster the front court. Does he consider a quantity for quality trade such as this? Orlando likes Gordon, but start to really like Isaac. They need a point guard and wouldn't mind getting an expiring and a lottery pick in return as well. Boston throws in Yabusele to make the salaries work, so it would be..
ORL gets: Marcus Smart, Marcus Morris, Guerschon Yabusele, MEM pick (probably falls between 9-14)
BOS gets: Aaron Gordon
Celtics roll in to the playoffs with an unreal 8 man rotation of Irving, Hayward, Horford, Gordon, Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Baynes..
Remember that Gordon is one of the better and more versatile defenders in the league and isn't even 23 yet. Reasonable contract for a player of his caliber.
Would you do this? Would Boston need to sweeten the pot?
I'm not touching this deal strictly for two reason. One we don't know if Irving is staying after this year. So Smart is locked up and could be a starting point guard if Irving and Rozier leave. Two we don't really have a spot for him completely. He's not going to start over Hayward or Tatum. So I'd say no for this two big reason. Plus I rather keep the Memphis pick and use that and our pick or Clippers pick to get another high pick this year or move back to another draft.
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No
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Hell no!
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I like Aaron Gordon, but I wouldn't trade Marcus smart for him straight up. Not because I think smart is a better player - I don't - but he fits our team better.
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Let's say it's getting close to the trade deadline and Danny thinks the team needs to bolster the front court. Does he consider a quantity for quality trade such as this? Orlando likes Gordon, but start to really like Isaac. They need a point guard and wouldn't mind getting an expiring and a lottery pick in return as well. Boston throws in Yabusele to make the salaries work, so it would be..
ORL gets: Marcus Smart, Marcus Morris, Guerschon Yabusele, MEM pick (probably falls between 9-14)
BOS gets: Aaron Gordon
Celtics roll in to the playoffs with an unreal 8 man rotation of Irving, Hayward, Horford, Gordon, Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Baynes..
Remember that Gordon is one of the better and more versatile defenders in the league and isn't even 23 yet. Reasonable contract for a player of his caliber.
Would you do this? Would Boston need to sweeten the pot?
I'm not touching this deal strictly for two reason. One we don't know if Irving is staying after this year. So Smart is locked up and could be a starting point guard if Irving and Rozier leave. Two we don't really have a spot for him completely. He's not going to start over Hayward or Tatum. So I'd say no for this two big reason. Plus I rather keep the Memphis pick and use that and our pick or Clippers pick to get another high pick this year or move back to another draft.
In a vacuum, I think it's a smart deal but I agree with Celtics978Fan. The fit with Smart is a little smoother and the trade either means disrupting the starting lineup they have now or having a $21 mil a year bench player. It's tough.
It's definitely a talent upgrade but I'm not sure its the right move from team-building standpoint.
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Once he increases his strength (with age and strength training) Gordon will be an ideal small ball 5, but regardless of what's on the table this upcoming season, you have to allow this roster to build chemistry and grow together.
Marcus is a crucial part of the identity the C's want. Unless there's a prolonged slump during the season, you let this roster ride out intact this season. The weaknesses will appear during the playoffs and, if necessary, addressed in the offseason.
Side note, I'm surprised that teams weren't lining up to s/t for AG, he'd be a great 3rd option on offense with the potential to be a lockdown small ball 5.
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TP for an interesting question, but I’m a no for the reasons given above.
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Yes. It's a deal where you get the better player.
Also, Gordon's contract is sweet:
2018-9 21.5 mill
2019-20 19.8 mill
2020-21 18.1 mill
2021-22 16.4 mill
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/aaron-gordon-15356/
Tbh, I think the deal makes little sense for Orlando. Smart and a pick of medium value don't help enough a rebuilding team. Morris is a one year rental and Yabushele an unlikely bet.
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Yes. It's a deal where you get the better player.
Also, Gordon's contract is sweet:
2018-9 21.5 mill
2019-20 19.8 mill
2020-21 18.1 mill
2021-22 16.4 mill
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/orlando-magic/aaron-gordon-15356/
Tbh, I think the deal makes little sense for Orlando. Smart and a pick of medium value don't help enough a rebuilding team. Morris is a one year rental and Yabushele an unlikely bet.
Oh wow, I didn't realize his deal was declining like that. That's actually very appealing.
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It would be a big roster shakeup, and for that reason I don't know if I would do it. I think the current roster as is has a good chance at a championship. But the idea of starting Gordon at the 4 and bringing Hayward off the bench as the sixth man is very appealing to me.
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Let's say it's getting close to the trade deadline and Danny thinks the team needs to bolster the front court. Does he consider a quantity for quality trade such as this? Orlando likes Gordon, but start to really like Isaac. They need a point guard and wouldn't mind getting an expiring and a lottery pick in return as well. Boston throws in Yabusele to make the salaries work, so it would be..
ORL gets: Marcus Smart, Marcus Morris, Guerschon Yabusele, MEM pick (probably falls between 9-14)
BOS gets: Aaron Gordon
Celtics roll in to the playoffs with an unreal 8 man rotation of Irving, Hayward, Horford, Gordon, Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Baynes..
Remember that Gordon is one of the better and more versatile defenders in the league and isn't even 23 yet. Reasonable contract for a player of his caliber.
Would you do this? Would Boston need to sweeten the pot?
I'm not touching this deal strictly for two reason. One we don't know if Irving is staying after this year. So Smart is locked up and could be a starting point guard if Irving and Rozier leave. Two we don't really have a spot for him completely. He's not going to start over Hayward or Tatum. So I'd say no for this two big reason. Plus I rather keep the Memphis pick and use that and our pick or Clippers pick to get another high pick this year or move back to another draft.
I agree to some extent that retaining smart is smart in case kyrie and Terry leave - team needs a point guard, and it’s a very weak draft and free agency class for point guards.
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let me think about this for a second..umm No.
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Interesting idea. Gordon is a great defender, but miles better than Smart offensively. However, I think giving up that Memphis pick would be foolish, and Gordon doesn't fit well on this team as he would start ahead of JT, Hayward or AH.
Ultimately I'd say no
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Hell no!
Way too much to give up. Morris and a pick, at MOST.
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Hell no!
Way too much to give up. Morris and a pick, at MOST.
you have to match salaries, no?
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It would be a big roster shakeup, and for that reason I don't know if I would do it. I think the current roster as is has a good chance at a championship. But the idea of starting Gordon at the 4 and bringing Hayward off the bench as the sixth man is very appealing to me.
Hayward is a top 20 player. He’s not coming off the bench.
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It would be a big roster shakeup, and for that reason I don't know if I would do it. I think the current roster as is has a good chance at a championship. But the idea of starting Gordon at the 4 and bringing Hayward off the bench as the sixth man is very appealing to me.
Hayward is a top 20 player. He’s not coming off the bench.
Especially considering how much better at shooting, passing and scoring he is than Gordon
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Hell no!
Way too much to give up. Morris and a pick, at MOST.
you have to match salaries, no?
Oh right. OK, no deal.
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Let's say it's getting close to the trade deadline and Danny thinks the team needs to bolster the front court. Does he consider a quantity for quality trade such as this? Orlando likes Gordon, but start to really like Isaac. They need a point guard and wouldn't mind getting an expiring and a lottery pick in return as well. Boston throws in Yabusele to make the salaries work, so it would be..
ORL gets: Marcus Smart, Marcus Morris, Guerschon Yabusele, MEM pick (probably falls between 9-14)
BOS gets: Aaron Gordon
Celtics roll in to the playoffs with an unreal 8 man rotation of Irving, Hayward, Horford, Gordon, Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Baynes..
Remember that Gordon is one of the better and more versatile defenders in the league and isn't even 23 yet. Reasonable contract for a player of his caliber.
Would you do this? Would Boston need to sweeten the pot?
I'm not touching this deal strictly for two reason. One we don't know if Irving is staying after this year. So Smart is locked up and could be a starting point guard if Irving and Rozier leave. Two we don't really have a spot for him completely. He's not going to start over Hayward or Tatum. So I'd say no for this two big reason. Plus I rather keep the Memphis pick and use that and our pick or Clippers pick to get another high pick this year or move back to another draft.
I agree to some extent that retaining smart is smart in case kyrie and Terry leave - team needs a point guard, and it’s a very weak draft and free agency class for point guards.
Maybe just let Hayward and Horf run point...and go nuts...
And Aaron Gordon could sort of playmake too in this scenario
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Sure, if salaries match. Plus, Morris shouldn't be included because he's clutch.
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The rumor I keep hearing on the basketball podcasts I listen to are Gordon for CJ McCallum
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Yes.
It's basically two backups and a mid-first round pick for a super young high level starter. Gordon would be another versatile defender to put on guys like Simmons, Giannis, Leonard, Durant, and James. His 3 point percentages appears to be trending up and I'd be very comfortable with him taking Smart and Morris' possessions/attempts. I think he fits in perfectly with our switch heavy system and wing/swing heavy lineup.
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Orlando would never do it, no upside for them and Gordon's contract isn't onerous.
It'd be a talent upgrade, but I'm very skeptical it'd work out even if the Magic agreed for some reason.
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Yes.
It's basically two backups and a mid-first round pick for a super young high level starter. Gordon would be another versatile defender to put on guys like Simmons, Giannis, Leonard, Durant, and James. His 3 point percentages appears to be trending up and I'd be very comfortable with him taking Smart and Morris' possessions/attempts. I think he fits in perfectly with our switch heavy system and wing/swing heavy lineup.
Or you could look at it from a different perspective. Your trading two backups and a mid-first round pick (if conveys in 2019*) for one bench player. The fact of the matter is Aaron Gordon is not starting over either Hayward or Tatum. The good thing about Smart and Morris is that their both capable of starting, but are only backups due to the level of talent in front of them. Also, both of those guys have basically accepted their roles as backups on this team, and thrived at it and bring much needed toughness. Would Aaron Gordon accept a role as a backup and find a way to make consistant contributions coming off the bench?
*The Memphis pick top 8 protected in 2019, top 6 in 2020, and unprotected in 2021. That pick has a lot of potentional if Mike Conley gets injured again.
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If only Terry's extension deadline was after the trade deadline...
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Yes.
It's basically two backups and a mid-first round pick for a super young high level starter. Gordon would be another versatile defender to put on guys like Simmons, Giannis, Leonard, Durant, and James. His 3 point percentages appears to be trending up and I'd be very comfortable with him taking Smart and Morris' possessions/attempts. I think he fits in perfectly with our switch heavy system and wing/swing heavy lineup.
Or you could look at it from a different perspective. Your trading two backups and a mid-first round pick (if conveys in 2019*) for one bench player. The fact of the matter is Aaron Gordon is not starting over either Hayward or Tatum. The good thing about Smart and Morris is that their both capable of starting, but are only backups due to the level of talent in front of them. Also, both of those guys have basically accepted their roles as backups on this team, and thrived at it and bring much needed toughness. Would Aaron Gordon accept a role as a backup and find a way to make consistant contributions coming off the bench?
*The Memphis pick top 8 protected in 2019, top 6 in 2020, and unprotected in 2021. That pick has a lot of potentional if Mike Conley gets injured again.
Gordon's willingness to come off the bench would definitely be a sticking point, but from a talent and timeline standpoint I think he's worth it. He put up 17 points and 8 rebounds a night at the age of 22 so I'd say he has plenty of potential. He's younger than Rozier and Ojeleye, plus is on a very nice contract.
The Memphis pick has potential, but so does Gordon, he could be as good as Hayward and more productive than Horford in a couple of seasons. He would be for us what Iguodala was for GSW a few seasons back a sixth man.
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Giving up the two tough guy, enforcer types, that love to do the dirty work would seriously change the make-up of this team.
Also, Orlando signed him to a pretty excellent contract and love his game. He is a piece they are building around so there is just no way the do to Gordon what they did to Toby Harris.
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Let's say it's getting close to the trade deadline and Danny thinks the team needs to bolster the front court. Does he consider a quantity for quality trade such as this? Orlando likes Gordon, but start to really like Isaac. They need a point guard and wouldn't mind getting an expiring and a lottery pick in return as well. Boston throws in Yabusele to make the salaries work, so it would be..
ORL gets: Marcus Smart, Marcus Morris, Guerschon Yabusele, MEM pick (probably falls between 9-14)
BOS gets: Aaron Gordon
Celtics roll in to the playoffs with an unreal 8 man rotation of Irving, Hayward, Horford, Gordon, Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Baynes..
Remember that Gordon is one of the better and more versatile defenders in the league and isn't even 23 yet. Reasonable contract for a player of his caliber.
Would you do this? Would Boston need to sweeten the pot?
I'm not touching this deal strictly for two reason. One we don't know if Irving is staying after this year. So Smart is locked up and could be a starting point guard if Irving and Rozier leave. Two we don't really have a spot for him completely. He's not going to start over Hayward or Tatum. So I'd say no for this two big reason. Plus I rather keep the Memphis pick and use that and our pick or Clippers pick to get another high pick this year or move back to another draft.
Just to reassure, the chances of us losing BOTH Irving and Rozier are tiny.
We not only will have Bird Rights on both, but we also will have Restricted Rights on Rozier. All we have to do is put a Qualifying Offer on Rozier to hold our rights to match until we have Irving's situation resolved, whose intentions should be clear fairly quickly into free agency. If Irving walks, we'll be able to match any offer sheet to Rozier.
So I wouldn't include that particular 'fear' as part of your reasoning on this trade.
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I think the concerns about 'fit' are legitimate -- but only given the current, healthy state of the roster.
The premise of the OP was that the team was in need of front court help at the deadline. In other words, maybe one of Al, Jayson or Theis is injured. In that scenario, his "fit" would suddenly be a lot better.
Especially in a season when you are trying to make a title run. If we did indeed need 'front court help' at the deadline and this deal was available, Danny should and would leap all over it in a heartbeat. Given the expectations of this year's team, it would be criminal not to.
His declining contract also makes him a potentially useful asset in subsequent seasons so even though, once everyone is again 'healthy', there might seem to be a glut at the forward position, it shouldn't be too hard for Danny to resolve that.
All that said, i'm extremely skeptical that Orlando would ever do such a deal.
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The premise of the OP was that the team was in need of front court help at the deadline. In other words, maybe one of Al, Jayson or Theis is injured. In that scenario, his "fit" would suddenly be a lot better.
I did not get that impression at all from the OP's post. The scenario was if Danny thinks the team needs to bolster the front court. I took bolster as everyone is healthy and Danny just wants to strengthen the front court even further.
Plus I assume the OP picked the trade deadline since Marcus Smart just signed a new contract and I don't believe he can be traded any time soon before the trade deadline.
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No
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The premise of the OP was that the team was in need of front court help at the deadline. In other words, maybe one of Al, Jayson or Theis is injured. In that scenario, his "fit" would suddenly be a lot better.
I did not get that impression at all from the OP's post. The scenario was if Danny thinks the team needs to bolster the front court. I took bolster as everyone is healthy and Danny just wants to strengthen the front court even further.
Plus I assume the OP picked the trade deadline since Marcus Smart just signed a new contract and I don't believe he can be traded any time soon before the trade deadline.
Why would it need bolstering if everyone is healthy? If healthy, our front-court should be really, really, really good.
FWIW: I believe Dec 15 is the earliest Smart can be traded.
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I haven't followed Gordon super closely, but assuming that he passes closer examination, you absolutely have to do this. The contract is the deciding factor. Its a great deal and the money goes down over time!
I agree that he can't start immediately, but there are enough minutes for him. It would make our bench intimidating, and give room for Rozier to develop. I think you can argue that it doesn't help that much immediately, but it wouldn't hurt us either. The real motivation is longer term. Horford is 32. Gordon is 22. Three years from now, you'll wish you'd done that deal. There is a multiplier effect to having that kind of athleticism on the floor.
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The premise of the OP was that the team was in need of front court help at the deadline. In other words, maybe one of Al, Jayson or Theis is injured. In that scenario, his "fit" would suddenly be a lot better.
I did not get that impression at all from the OP's post. The scenario was if Danny thinks the team needs to bolster the front court. I took bolster as everyone is healthy and Danny just wants to strengthen the front court even further.
Plus I assume the OP picked the trade deadline since Marcus Smart just signed a new contract and I don't believe he can be traded any time soon before the trade deadline.
Why would it need bolstering if everyone is healthy? If healthy, our front-court should be really, really, really good.
FWIW: I believe Dec 15 is the earliest Smart can be traded.
Really really really good might be an exaggeration..Aron Baynes is our 2nd best big next to 32 year old Horford.
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Sorry, but where exactly is Gordon going to play?
You really think Cs are gonna pay someone $20 mil per to come off the bench?
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It would be a big roster shakeup, and for that reason I don't know if I would do it. I think the current roster as is has a good chance at a championship. But the idea of starting Gordon at the 4 and bringing Hayward off the bench as the sixth man is very appealing to me.
Hayward is a top 20 player. He’s not coming off the bench.
Hayward has never been a top 20 player in his career. In fact, he has only made one all-star appearance. What makes him a "top 20 player"?
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It would be a big roster shakeup, and for that reason I don't know if I would do it. I think the current roster as is has a good chance at a championship. But the idea of starting Gordon at the 4 and bringing Hayward off the bench as the sixth man is very appealing to me.
Hayward is a top 20 player. He’s not coming off the bench.
Hayward has never been a top 20 player in his career. In fact, he has only made one all-star appearance. What makes him a "top 20 player"?
Here we go again
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Why not?
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No
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HELL NO!!
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HELL NO!!
Watch your ****ing language. ;D
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It would be a big roster shakeup, and for that reason I don't know if I would do it. I think the current roster as is has a good chance at a championship. But the idea of starting Gordon at the 4 and bringing Hayward off the bench as the sixth man is very appealing to me.
Hayward is a top 20 player. He’s not coming off the bench.
Hayward has never been a top 20 player in his career. In fact, he has only made one all-star appearance. What makes him a "top 20 player"?
For me, it's the fact I don't think anyone can rationally argue that there are 20 better players in the NBA than GH, so yes, he's a top 20 player.
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I'd go after Isaac for Rozier and Yab. Trims some salary and he is under rookie contract another two seasons which overall helps team avoid big tax. Isaac could be ready to start when AL departs or be a nice trade chip to add for AD next year.
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I'd go after Isaac for Rozier and Yab. Trims some salary and he is under rookie contract another two seasons which overall helps team avoid big tax. Isaac could be ready to start when AL departs or be a nice trade chip to add for AD next year.
Yeah, I love this trade if Orlando is that high on Rozier, and hopefully a little bit down on Isaac. That's a great idea. We would probably have to include some kind of draft pick to get them to bite though.