CelticsStrong
Other Discussions => Other / General Sports => Revolution / Soccer => Topic started by: Phantom255x on October 10, 2017, 10:07:00 PM
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Not that I expected them to make it far even if they made the tournament, but man that's kind of embarrassing.
No disrespect to the others in the CONCACAF qualifiers, but it's unacceptable for the U.S to not make it and also look real bad against smaller/weaker teams in the process (like Trinidad & Tobago, who beat them 2-1 today to officially eliminate USA from the 2018 World Cup).
First time since 1986 the USMNT has failed to qualify for a World Cup. Sad!
Firing Jurgen Klinsmann was a JOKE. They had a rough stretch, but come on, he's the only reason US Mens Soccer got a little exciting, especially in the 2014 World Cup. Firing him, then replacing him with Bruce Arena (of all people, smh) was extremely idiotic.
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Nigeria made it 8)...I was born in Nigeria but off course i am a US citizen. Very Disappointed to USA not make it. Football/soccer is already not popular in the usa, so we know Americans are not going to watch the world cup.
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Today's result is an embarrassment no doubt, and Arena has limitations as a coach, but Jurgen was not doing well this time around and by all accounts had lost the team. It was time to move on from him. It was their poor performance early on just as much as today's loss that led to their elimination, that is on Jurgen just as today is on Arena. It's time to start over and find a new coach for this team.
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I'm not going to pretend that I really care about soccer, but I do watch from time to time and it's the only sport where I root for a non-Boston team (Orlando).
But, yeah, this is really embarrassing. I get that the U.S. puts the vast majority of its resources into other sports, but we are a humongous country with a lot of money and a very diverse array of athletes.
This sure isn't going to help the popularity of soccer in the states. Bummer.
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Though I don't really follow soccer these days, I do like it—I played way back in junior high and high school. It's too bad the men's team missed the WC. I've heard that soccer is gaining in popularity in the U.S., but I'm not sure it'll ever really catch on at the level of basketball, baseball, etc.
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If you can't beat/draw against last place Trinidad and Tobago, you don't deserve a World Cup berth.
3 wins in 10 games, it's not a Panama phantom goal that eliminated them, it's them. Outside of Christian Pulisic (future Galactico), no one else in this team is good enough.
Time for the US to look at their soccer program. Seeming as they are in for missing a lot of money, they might need to think this thru. Start by making David Wagner as the new manager.
Also, not that I want to make it political, but the men's who missed the WC, are paid more than the women's, who won the WC. Just putting it out there...
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Disappointing. Not a huge soccer fan, but always enjoy the World Cup. Thought US Men's team was moving forward, but maybe we need to take a few (more) steps back to achieve that.
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If you can't beat/draw against last place Trinidad and Tobago, you don't deserve a World Cup berth.
3 wins in 10 games, it's not a Panama phantom goal that eliminated them, it's them. Outside of Christian Pulisic (future Galactico), no one else in this team is good enough.
Time for the US to look at their soccer program. Seeming as they are in for missing a lot of money, they might need to think this thru.
Also, not that I want to make it political, but the men's who missed the WC, are paid more than the women's, who won the WC. Just putting it out there...
Totally agree with your first statement. Our talent level is just not very good right now. We missed the last 2 Olympics - a showcase for Under age 23 players - so safe to say the 20-28 group - which is where our best players should be coming from - has been a bust.
As for why that happened...that's a many layers deep problem. Nonetheless there's no excuse for losing to a minnow like T & T in a game you need to win. The players and coaches deserve whatever shame gets tossed their way. They choked.
As for the last statement - the US should be dominating women's soccer - we're far ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to women's rights and we probably have the biggest talent pool. However we are starting to lose that edge and that should be happening as part of the natural evolution of things. The rest of the world is improving.
The men's game is an entirely different proposition however. The top countries have been playing soccer for well over 100 years. MLS our first real pro league isn't even 30 years old.
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If you can't beat/draw against last place Trinidad and Tobago, you don't deserve a World Cup berth.
3 wins in 10 games, it's not a Panama phantom goal that eliminated them, it's them. Outside of Christian Pulisic (future Galactico), no one else in this team is good enough.
Time for the US to look at their soccer program. Seeming as they are in for missing a lot of money, they might need to think this thru.
Also, not that I want to make it political, but the men's who missed the WC, are paid more than the women's, who won the WC. Just putting it out there...
Totally agree with your first statement. Our talent level is just not very good right now. We missed the last 2 Olympics - a showcase for Under age 23 players - so safe to say the 20-28 group - which is where our best players should be coming from - has been a bust.
As for why that happened...that's a many layers deep problem. Nonetheless there's no excuse for losing to a minnow like T & T in a game you need to win. The players and coaches deserve whatever shame gets tossed their way. They choked.
As for the last statement - the US should be dominating women's soccer - we're far ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to women's rights and we probably have the biggest talent pool. However we are starting to lose that edge and that should be happening as part of the natural evolution of things. The rest of the world is improving.
The men's game is an entirely different proposition however. The top countries have been playing soccer for well over 100 years. MLS our first real pro league isn't even 30 years old. And we're seeing right now that American players in that league are starting to take a back seat to central and south american talent. There are no American born players in the top 10 goal scorers presently.
This is true, but why is that? Is there no talent coming out of the US system that could? Chris Wondolowski is the last American Golden Boot winner for the MLS. Can't the US get another Wondo?
The goalkeeping. The US has three Goalkeepers in this squad over 33. Both Tim Howard and Brad Guzan have been on the decline 3 years ago. They cannot find anyone else?
Is it really the lack of interest from American born kids to soccer the reason that they can't replenish the talent pool? If so, then that's a BIG problem.
How does naturalization work? Can they naturalize somebody to be able to play here? Surely there are kids in some other countries that could be enticed to come to America and play for the National Team. Can they do that?
The MLS can play a big factor too. Can they strengthen the league to further give American talents more, better competition?
I really don't know how to fix this. I know Pulisic will be great in the next 4 years. Maybe DeAndre Yedlin will be a good RB by then under Rafa Benitez, but they won't be enough.
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I think it's hilarious that the USA did not qualify, but there are other sides that did not, including the Dutch and maybe the Argies. However, USA has no significant talents other than Pulisic, so I'm not surprised at this. We utilize our college programs to develop young players, but they are already 21 years old or so by the time they graduate and make a career of it. In football hotbeds all over the world, kids sign with club academies at a very early age, and many benefit in their development as players by doing so.
Heck, we are not even developing top goalkeeper talent any more.
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Individual talent is not important in qualification rounds. Look at Argentians who struggled. Based on their talent they should be in the semis in every competition. Croatia with an all star roster made the play offs in the last game.
What is necessary is passion and an actual team not 11 men kicking a ball.
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I haven't paid attention to USA soccer since the last WC, but what I always liked about their game was a team-oriented approach, good physical preparation and instilled "we are not afraid to beat anyone" belief. I would say that the first 2 were USA traits, that 3rd seemed like Klinsmann's work.
Fans should understand, especially in Croatia where I come from (and fans are crazy), that no team owns the subscription for the greatest (single) sports competition in the world. Netherlands (2002), France (1994, won in 1998), Croatia (2010) and many other countries that live football, missed the competition at times. The talent on these squads was superior back then than what the USA has on the roster now, but it still happened. Just try to do better next time.
BTW, I haven't heard about Pulišić before, I see he has quality roots. :)
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Our top level athletes in the USA are on the Baseball Diamond, Football Field and the Basketball Court until that changes, and I hope it never does, I expect us to lose at soccer, time and time again.
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I think it's hilarious that the USA did not qualify, but there are other sides that did not, including the Dutch and maybe the Argies. However, USA has no significant talents other than Pulisic, so I'm not surprised at this. We utilize our college programs to develop young players, but they are already 21 years old or so by the time they graduate and make a career of it. In football hotbeds all over the world, kids sign with club academies at a very early age, and many benefit in their development as players by doing so.
Heck, we are not even developing top goalkeeper talent any more.
DeAndre Yedlin is pretty decent, but other than that, I agree with everything else.
There's just no interest in developing kids, nor interest from kids taking up the sport. This is why I asked about the naturalization process, as I don't know how it works.
Also, I think the key here is indeed Christian Pulisic. Kid is 19 and in the football world, he's already making a buzz. If he could (and he can) make an international buzz in the next four years, make a lot of money, be an international face of football, be marketed as a top athlete, he could carry along the sport with him. A lot of ifs, but it's doable.
But he won't do that in Borussia Dortmund, unfortunately, he needs to be really good, and be good enough to move to a giant club that can market him well.
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The goalkeeping. The US has three Goalkeepers in this squad over 33. Both Tim Howard and Brad Guzan have been on the decline 3 years ago. They cannot find anyone else?
Is it really the lack of interest from American born kids to soccer the reason that they can't replenish the talent pool? If so, then that's a BIG problem.
How does naturalization work? Can they naturalize somebody to be able to play here? Surely there are kids in some other countries that could be enticed to come to America and play for the National Team. Can they do that?
The problem isn't the lack of interest among kids. Participation is booming and when you think about it nowadays - if you're an athletic kid and under say 6' 3"... your chances of becoming a pro in soccer are better than in any other sport.
The problem is systemic and a big part is 'pay for play' model that seems to permeate the system right now. Means most the kids getting the chance to advance are middle class and those from wealthier backgrounds.
This needs to change. Hopefully US Soccer comes to its senses and develops a plan with the input of MLS owners and more importantly the generation of pro's who turned the corner for US Soccer over the past couple of decades. We have to do a better job of identifying more talented kids on the lower end of the socio-economic scale and find ways to invest in them by getting them top level training.
Soccer still has a huge opportunity. Baseball has become an old man's sport. American kids don't play it anymore. Football's concussion issues are going to have a huge impact on youth participation moving forward. Basketball requires a unique set of physical attributes if you want to make money playing it. That leaves soccer as the sport of the masses - as it is world wide. Kids of any size and athletic build can play.
Hopefully this serves as a wakeup call to US Soccer but there's a reason so many billionaires have invested in the sport domestically. And that hasn't changed despite yesterday's debacle.
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The goalkeeping. The US has three Goalkeepers in this squad over 33. Both Tim Howard and Brad Guzan have been on the decline 3 years ago. They cannot find anyone else?
Is it really the lack of interest from American born kids to soccer the reason that they can't replenish the talent pool? If so, then that's a BIG problem.
How does naturalization work? Can they naturalize somebody to be able to play here? Surely there are kids in some other countries that could be enticed to come to America and play for the National Team. Can they do that?
The problem isn't the lack of interest among kids. Participation is booming and when you think about it nowadays - if you're an athletic kid and under say 6' 3"... your chances of becoming a pro in soccer are better than in any other sport.
The problem is systemic and a big part is 'pay for play' model that seems to permeate the system right now. Means most the kids getting the chance to advance are middle class and those from wealthier backgrounds.
This needs to change. Hopefully US Soccer comes to its senses and develops a plan with the input of MLS owners and more importantly the generation of pro's who turned the corner for US Soccer over the past couple of decades. We have to do a better job of identifying more talented kids on the lower end of the socio-economic scale and find ways to invest in them by getting them top level training.
Soccer still has a huge opportunity. Baseball has become an old man's sport. American kids don't play it anymore. Football's concussion issues are going to have a huge impact on youth participation moving forward. Basketball requires a unique set of physical attributes if you want to make money playing it. That leaves soccer as the sport of the masses - as it is world wide. Kids of any size and athletic build can play.
Hopefully this serves as a wakeup call to US Soccer but there's a reason so many billionaires have invested in the sport domestically. And that hasn't changed despite yesterday's debacle.
Totally agree with the pay to play system.
If this was basketball, the best kids in the nation would have already been recruited by AAU squads. If this was baseball, they would playing in Little League, but in soccer, you'd have to pay to be able to play top quality organized competition. It has to stop, as it does limit it to the kids who can afford it.
I still think there's not enough interests in it, though. Kids would still rather still play basketball or American football. I don't know how to fix that, but something needs to be done there.
Also, I want to go back again to the whole naturalization thing. Why can't the US poach players from other countries and naturalize them?
Brazil and Argentina are a hotbed of football talent, and not all of those kids will earn caps for their respective nations, but there will be players who are good enough that they could change the culture and competition when inserted with the home grown kids here.
Sure, the US may not be able to poach a kid that could be the next Neymar or Messi, but they can probably find players that could be as good as, say Richarlison and Roberto Pereyra, not good enough to earn a senior cap for Brazil and Argentina respectively, but good enough to play in the Premier League regularly (Pereyra at one point was good enough for Juventus to get him). That is not world class level talent, but good enough to be able to elevate the USMNT to certain level, as far as skill, technical ability and competition is concerned. Yeah, they may not be able to poach a Thiago Silva who is mainstay in Brazil, but they maybe able to find a young player who can be a0 Gabriel Paulista type of player, who may never earn a cap, but that guy is has played against Premier League competition and now playing in the La Liga, surely better than Damarcus Beasley, Omar Gonzales and Matt Besler. There should be young players in these countries that the US can poach.
Some of these kids could find the prospect of moving to America enticing, as they maybe economically limited in Brazil, Argentina, or maybe in other nations in South America and Africa, to name a few. The idea of being able to play in the World Cup, even though it's not for their home land, could be enticing for them as well. So the US presents an opportunity for these young players to come, something I believe that needs to be taken advantage off.
The US are already doing this in College Basketball in a way, recruiting players for other countries to play for Universities. FIFA allows naturalizing players, maybe it's time for the US to take advantage of it, as there is clearly no interest and a scarce pool of talent here.
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We actually do poach players and have been doing it for years. It was a point of contention during the recent cycle as Jurgen Klinsmann recruited several german based players (who had one American parent) and gave them major roles. Some questioned their loyalty to the cause especially when the team started to struggle. But you try to unearth the talent wherever you can..
MLS is becoming more and more popular with South American players because you actually get paid unlike with more than a few pro teams down there.
So there's definitely going to be opportunities to poach players who have some family ties here.
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We actually do poach players and have been doing it for years. It was a point of contention during the recent cycle as Jurgen Klinsmann recruited several german based players (who had one American parent) and gave them major roles. Some questioned their loyalty to the cause especially when the team started to struggle. But you try to unearth the talent wherever you can..
MLS is becoming more and more popular with South American players because you actually get paid unlike with more than a few pro teams down there.
So there's definitely going to be opportunities to poach players who have some family ties here.
That's true, but yes, those guys that were poached were, one way or the other, have ties to the US.
I'm talking about kids/players who have zero ties, bring them in here, naturalize them. I think there's more opportunity to be able to get fine, quality players if the US opens up to that idea. There are players who are good enough who has no ties to the US that has no path in being able to play for the World Cup, maybe they should open up and recruit/naturalize these kids.
I don't know if FIFA will allow it, but I think as long as you're under 21, you can switch allegiances, right?
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Im seeing a lot of people talk about the talent level.
A lot of complaining about pay-to-play, the way USSF and MLS prepare and develop players etc etc.
However, the US didnt fail to qualify for the world cup because of talent. They are far and away the 2nd most talented team of the Hex. Depth, top-end talent you name it, they were better than everyone but Mexico.
Obviously, there are flaws in the system that lead to the US producing less top-end talent than it should, and if we were more talented, the margin of error (Which was already huge) would be bigger, but this team didnt qualify because they played miles below their talent levels. Is that really a failing of the MLS and youth soccer? or is it a failing of the way the current senior team is managed?
I think the latter.
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Individual talent is not important in qualification rounds. Look at Argentians who struggled. Based on their talent they should be in the semis in every competition. Croatia with an all star roster made the play offs in the last game.
What is necessary is passion and an actual team not 11 men kicking a ball.
If that is true, why is it that San Marino, Andorra and the Faroes never seem to qualify for major tournaments?
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I haven't paid attention to USA soccer since the last WC, but what I always liked about their game was a team-oriented approach, good physical preparation and instilled "we are not afraid to beat anyone" belief. I would say that the first 2 were USA traits, that 3rd seemed like Klinsmann's work.
Fans should understand, especially in Croatia where I come from (and fans are crazy), that no team owns the subscription for the greatest (single) sports competition in the world. Netherlands (2002), France (1994, won in 1998), Croatia (2010) and many other countries that live football, missed the competition at times. The talent on these squads was superior back then than what the USA has on the roster now, but it still happened. Just try to do better next time.
BTW, I haven't heard about Pulišić before, I see he has quality roots. :)
Congrats to Croatia for qualifying. I love those red-and-white checkerboard tops!
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Regardless, this HAS to be a wake up call for US Mens Soccer going forward.
I mean come on, CONCACAF is mostly a joke (besides Mexico), and the U.S couldn't even qualify AND lost to a last place team yesterday.