Author Topic: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)  (Read 366780 times)

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Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1590 on: December 17, 2018, 11:21:47 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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The trade between Phoenix and Philly showed that Kelly Oubre has much higher trade value then Fultz. Keep on mind that Phoenix actually wants young players, especially point guards.

Seems to me that Philly will once again wait their asset value to deprecate then do a deal. (Noel, Okafor)

This is a good point. I guarantee that Ariza and Daniels was on the table for Fultz and Chandler.

Ariza would help the Sixers a lot, and he is an expiring, which gives them the flexibility this off-season they want. Plus, Daniels is a shooter that could help them.
I don't see why Philly would do that trade at all.

I see why Philly would do it. They get a guy who fits perfectly as they make a run this year. He can pretty much be Robert Covington for them for one year (and he's way better than Chandler). They get another bench shooter. Plus, depending on what Butler resigns for, they would have at least 24 million in cap space to use this off-season to chase another big name (which they wouldn't have with Fultz on the books).

I realize its not what they might have hoped for Fultz, but it would put them in a better position to win this year, in the off-season, and in the next few years.

I believe his on off numbers were also truly awful for the entire series.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1591 on: December 17, 2018, 11:24:03 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Simmons this year has actually regressed in his outside shooting. Last year he took 79% of his shots from inside 10 feet. In last year's playoffs that went to 86%. This season it's at a tick over 90%. He isn't even trying to take shots outside of ten feet. Out of 1459 shots he has taken in his career, playoffs included, he has taken 12 three pointers and made none. This year he has not hit a hot from outside of 16 feet.

Think about that. Out of 336 shots so far this year he hasn't hit one from outside 16 feet. That makes game planning for him and the Philly offense in a 7 game series so easy

How does he compare to Giannis then.

Guess Simmons just isn't freakish enough to justify having zero jumpshot.
Giannis, for his career has these percentages of shots taken within 10 feet
57.4%
68.4%
68.9%
64.5%
61.7%
73.7%

So he averages about 65% of his shots from within 10 feet on any given year, though this year he is at his career highest of 73.7%. Lots of season still to play so that could go down. Giannis has also shot 652 three pointers his career at 27%.

So, there is a big difference between the two players in how they take shots. Giannis obviously sees he needs to take three pointers to keep the defense honest. Simmons doesn't even try.

And because of that Simmons is putting up almost identical stats as last year and shows no development. Until he starts taking outside shots and hitting them, Simmons will probably just be what he is now for a long time.

And if he is going to stay like this most coaches will just steal Boston's game plan from last year and have him put up numbers below his regular season averages in more minutes played per game

Career Reg season - Playoffs vs Boston
33.6 - 36.4 MPG
15.8 - 14.4 PPG
8.4 - 8.2 RPG
8.1 - 7.4 APG
55.2 - 47.5 FG%
3.4 - 4.8 TOVPG.

So his per 36 numbers of his career would make his per game points scored, rebounds and assists look even higher as compared to that Boston playoff series. Boston established the blueprint on how to frustrate him and limit Simmons' impact.
5 games is such a small sample size though.  If you take out game 2, this is what Simmons averaged in the series. 

37.8 mpg, 17.8 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 6.25 apg, 50.9%, 4.75 tpg (he also averaged 1.25 steals and 1.0 blocks in those 4 games).  So aside from his assists he was up across the board (and right around his per 36 average from the regular season).  He had 3 of the 5 games shooting greater than 53% from the field (the other was 40%). 

You can't pretend game 2 didn't happen, but game 2 absolutely skews the numbers for Simmons, and with such a small sample size, it skews them a lot.
I could just as easily take out his game 4 performance and the only number it would help is his FG% and make him an average of -17 per game.

Those numbers would be right around 14 PPG, 7 APG, 7 RPG 5 TOVPG in about 37 MPG and of course the above mentioned -17 per game.

So yeah, your point of take one game out works both ways.

You just can't do it. My point is as a series he was game planned for and it worked. It really limited him.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 11:31:08 AM by nickagneta »

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1592 on: December 17, 2018, 11:49:42 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Simmons this year has actually regressed in his outside shooting. Last year he took 79% of his shots from inside 10 feet. In last year's playoffs that went to 86%. This season it's at a tick over 90%. He isn't even trying to take shots outside of ten feet. Out of 1459 shots he has taken in his career, playoffs included, he has taken 12 three pointers and made none. This year he has not hit a hot from outside of 16 feet.

Think about that. Out of 336 shots so far this year he hasn't hit one from outside 16 feet. That makes game planning for him and the Philly offense in a 7 game series so easy

How does he compare to Giannis then.

Guess Simmons just isn't freakish enough to justify having zero jumpshot.
Giannis, for his career has these percentages of shots taken within 10 feet
57.4%
68.4%
68.9%
64.5%
61.7%
73.7%

So he averages about 65% of his shots from within 10 feet on any given year, though this year he is at his career highest of 73.7%. Lots of season still to play so that could go down. Giannis has also shot 652 three pointers his career at 27%.

So, there is a big difference between the two players in how they take shots. Giannis obviously sees he needs to take three pointers to keep the defense honest. Simmons doesn't even try.

And because of that Simmons is putting up almost identical stats as last year and shows no development. Until he starts taking outside shots and hitting them, Simmons will probably just be what he is now for a long time.

And if he is going to stay like this most coaches will just steal Boston's game plan from last year and have him put up numbers below his regular season averages in more minutes played per game

Career Reg season - Playoffs vs Boston
33.6 - 36.4 MPG
15.8 - 14.4 PPG
8.4 - 8.2 RPG
8.1 - 7.4 APG
55.2 - 47.5 FG%
3.4 - 4.8 TOVPG.

So his per 36 numbers of his career would make his per game points scored, rebounds and assists look even higher as compared to that Boston playoff series. Boston established the blueprint on how to frustrate him and limit Simmons' impact.
5 games is such a small sample size though.  If you take out game 2, this is what Simmons averaged in the series. 

37.8 mpg, 17.8 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 6.25 apg, 50.9%, 4.75 tpg (he also averaged 1.25 steals and 1.0 blocks in those 4 games).  So aside from his assists he was up across the board (and right around his per 36 average from the regular season).  He had 3 of the 5 games shooting greater than 53% from the field (the other was 40%). 

You can't pretend game 2 didn't happen, but game 2 absolutely skews the numbers for Simmons, and with such a small sample size, it skews them a lot.
I could just as easily take out his game 4 performance and the only number it would help is his FG% and make him an average of -17 per game.

Those numbers would be right around 14 PPG, 7 APG, 7 RPG 5 TOVPG in about 37 MPG and of course the above mentioned -17 per game.

So yeah, your point of take one game out works both ways.

You just can't do it. My point is as a series he was game planned for and it worked. It really limited him.
I'm just not sure that is the case.  He had a truly awful game, but the rest of the series performed in line with his regular season performance, which is pretty good since most people perform worse in the playoffs then regular season.  And yeah, you can take out his best game and the numbers look worse, but that also helps prove the point about it being a small sample size, making it difficult to put much stock in those numbers or being able to draw any sort of real correlation. 

And don't get me wrong, Simmons absolutely needs to develop at least a decent outside shot, if for no other reason then just to keep teams honest to really reach his full potential.  However, even if he doesn't he can basically be what he is now for a decade, which is still a very good player and potentially a great player with the right supporting cast. 
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Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1593 on: December 17, 2018, 12:05:54 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Simmons this year has actually regressed in his outside shooting. Last year he took 79% of his shots from inside 10 feet. In last year's playoffs that went to 86%. This season it's at a tick over 90%. He isn't even trying to take shots outside of ten feet. Out of 1459 shots he has taken in his career, playoffs included, he has taken 12 three pointers and made none. This year he has not hit a hot from outside of 16 feet.

Think about that. Out of 336 shots so far this year he hasn't hit one from outside 16 feet. That makes game planning for him and the Philly offense in a 7 game series so easy

How does he compare to Giannis then.

Guess Simmons just isn't freakish enough to justify having zero jumpshot.
Giannis, for his career has these percentages of shots taken within 10 feet
57.4%
68.4%
68.9%
64.5%
61.7%
73.7%

So he averages about 65% of his shots from within 10 feet on any given year, though this year he is at his career highest of 73.7%. Lots of season still to play so that could go down. Giannis has also shot 652 three pointers his career at 27%.

So, there is a big difference between the two players in how they take shots. Giannis obviously sees he needs to take three pointers to keep the defense honest. Simmons doesn't even try.

And because of that Simmons is putting up almost identical stats as last year and shows no development. Until he starts taking outside shots and hitting them, Simmons will probably just be what he is now for a long time.

And if he is going to stay like this most coaches will just steal Boston's game plan from last year and have him put up numbers below his regular season averages in more minutes played per game

Career Reg season - Playoffs vs Boston
33.6 - 36.4 MPG
15.8 - 14.4 PPG
8.4 - 8.2 RPG
8.1 - 7.4 APG
55.2 - 47.5 FG%
3.4 - 4.8 TOVPG.

So his per 36 numbers of his career would make his per game points scored, rebounds and assists look even higher as compared to that Boston playoff series. Boston established the blueprint on how to frustrate him and limit Simmons' impact.
5 games is such a small sample size though.  If you take out game 2, this is what Simmons averaged in the series. 

37.8 mpg, 17.8 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 6.25 apg, 50.9%, 4.75 tpg (he also averaged 1.25 steals and 1.0 blocks in those 4 games).  So aside from his assists he was up across the board (and right around his per 36 average from the regular season).  He had 3 of the 5 games shooting greater than 53% from the field (the other was 40%). 

You can't pretend game 2 didn't happen, but game 2 absolutely skews the numbers for Simmons, and with such a small sample size, it skews them a lot.
I could just as easily take out his game 4 performance and the only number it would help is his FG% and make him an average of -17 per game.

Those numbers would be right around 14 PPG, 7 APG, 7 RPG 5 TOVPG in about 37 MPG and of course the above mentioned -17 per game.

So yeah, your point of take one game out works both ways.

You just can't do it. My point is as a series he was game planned for and it worked. It really limited him.
I'm just not sure that is the case.  He had a truly awful game, but the rest of the series performed in line with his regular season performance, which is pretty good since most people perform worse in the playoffs then regular season.  And yeah, you can take out his best game and the numbers look worse, but that also helps prove the point about it being a small sample size, making it difficult to put much stock in those numbers or being able to draw any sort of real correlation. 

And don't get me wrong, Simmons absolutely needs to develop at least a decent outside shot, if for no other reason then just to keep teams honest to really reach his full potential.  However, even if he doesn't he can basically be what he is now for a decade, which is still a very good player and potentially a great player with the right supporting cast.
Yup, it proves it is a small sample size so shouldn't be done and if it shouldn't be done then you take all 5 games into consideration and he obviously was game planned for well. And as a total series he was a -63 or - 12.6 per game when Philly, as a team, was only a -3 per game for the series. I have seen you put a lot of stock in plus minus numbers before. That number shows he was basically a liability to Philly in that series.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1594 on: December 17, 2018, 02:39:10 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Simmons this year has actually regressed in his outside shooting. Last year he took 79% of his shots from inside 10 feet. In last year's playoffs that went to 86%. This season it's at a tick over 90%. He isn't even trying to take shots outside of ten feet. Out of 1459 shots he has taken in his career, playoffs included, he has taken 12 three pointers and made none. This year he has not hit a hot from outside of 16 feet.

Think about that. Out of 336 shots so far this year he hasn't hit one from outside 16 feet. That makes game planning for him and the Philly offense in a 7 game series so easy

How does he compare to Giannis then.

Guess Simmons just isn't freakish enough to justify having zero jumpshot.
Giannis, for his career has these percentages of shots taken within 10 feet
57.4%
68.4%
68.9%
64.5%
61.7%
73.7%

So he averages about 65% of his shots from within 10 feet on any given year, though this year he is at his career highest of 73.7%. Lots of season still to play so that could go down. Giannis has also shot 652 three pointers his career at 27%.

So, there is a big difference between the two players in how they take shots. Giannis obviously sees he needs to take three pointers to keep the defense honest. Simmons doesn't even try.

And because of that Simmons is putting up almost identical stats as last year and shows no development. Until he starts taking outside shots and hitting them, Simmons will probably just be what he is now for a long time.

And if he is going to stay like this most coaches will just steal Boston's game plan from last year and have him put up numbers below his regular season averages in more minutes played per game

Career Reg season - Playoffs vs Boston
33.6 - 36.4 MPG
15.8 - 14.4 PPG
8.4 - 8.2 RPG
8.1 - 7.4 APG
55.2 - 47.5 FG%
3.4 - 4.8 TOVPG.

So his per 36 numbers of his career would make his per game points scored, rebounds and assists look even higher as compared to that Boston playoff series. Boston established the blueprint on how to frustrate him and limit Simmons' impact.
5 games is such a small sample size though.  If you take out game 2, this is what Simmons averaged in the series. 

37.8 mpg, 17.8 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 6.25 apg, 50.9%, 4.75 tpg (he also averaged 1.25 steals and 1.0 blocks in those 4 games).  So aside from his assists he was up across the board (and right around his per 36 average from the regular season).  He had 3 of the 5 games shooting greater than 53% from the field (the other was 40%). 

You can't pretend game 2 didn't happen, but game 2 absolutely skews the numbers for Simmons, and with such a small sample size, it skews them a lot.
I could just as easily take out his game 4 performance and the only number it would help is his FG% and make him an average of -17 per game.

Those numbers would be right around 14 PPG, 7 APG, 7 RPG 5 TOVPG in about 37 MPG and of course the above mentioned -17 per game.

So yeah, your point of take one game out works both ways.

You just can't do it. My point is as a series he was game planned for and it worked. It really limited him.
I'm just not sure that is the case.  He had a truly awful game, but the rest of the series performed in line with his regular season performance, which is pretty good since most people perform worse in the playoffs then regular season.  And yeah, you can take out his best game and the numbers look worse, but that also helps prove the point about it being a small sample size, making it difficult to put much stock in those numbers or being able to draw any sort of real correlation. 

And don't get me wrong, Simmons absolutely needs to develop at least a decent outside shot, if for no other reason then just to keep teams honest to really reach his full potential.  However, even if he doesn't he can basically be what he is now for a decade, which is still a very good player and potentially a great player with the right supporting cast.
Yup, it proves it is a small sample size so shouldn't be done and if it shouldn't be done then you take all 5 games into consideration and he obviously was game planned for well. And as a total series he was a -63 or - 12.6 per game when Philly, as a team, was only a -3 per game for the series. I have seen you put a lot of stock in plus minus numbers before. That number shows he was basically a liability to Philly in that series.

Yea how badly Simmons impacted the 76ers in the series can not be overstated.

I find it completely perplexing that people are still trying to defend it using raw counting stats when I know for a fact they regularly look at advanced numbers and this was covered in great detail by many sites



https://theundefeated.com/features/breaking-down-philadelphia-76ers-point-guard-ben-simmons-plus-minus/

Note this undefeated article has some incredible clips of how he was costing them game 5 all by himself. If you haven't seen these plays, i implore you watch them and stop the futile effort of trying to defend that stinker of a performance...

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1595 on: December 17, 2018, 02:59:12 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Simmons this year has actually regressed in his outside shooting. Last year he took 79% of his shots from inside 10 feet. In last year's playoffs that went to 86%. This season it's at a tick over 90%. He isn't even trying to take shots outside of ten feet. Out of 1459 shots he has taken in his career, playoffs included, he has taken 12 three pointers and made none. This year he has not hit a hot from outside of 16 feet.

Think about that. Out of 336 shots so far this year he hasn't hit one from outside 16 feet. That makes game planning for him and the Philly offense in a 7 game series so easy

How does he compare to Giannis then.

Guess Simmons just isn't freakish enough to justify having zero jumpshot.
Giannis, for his career has these percentages of shots taken within 10 feet
57.4%
68.4%
68.9%
64.5%
61.7%
73.7%

So he averages about 65% of his shots from within 10 feet on any given year, though this year he is at his career highest of 73.7%. Lots of season still to play so that could go down. Giannis has also shot 652 three pointers his career at 27%.

So, there is a big difference between the two players in how they take shots. Giannis obviously sees he needs to take three pointers to keep the defense honest. Simmons doesn't even try.

And because of that Simmons is putting up almost identical stats as last year and shows no development. Until he starts taking outside shots and hitting them, Simmons will probably just be what he is now for a long time.

And if he is going to stay like this most coaches will just steal Boston's game plan from last year and have him put up numbers below his regular season averages in more minutes played per game

Career Reg season - Playoffs vs Boston
33.6 - 36.4 MPG
15.8 - 14.4 PPG
8.4 - 8.2 RPG
8.1 - 7.4 APG
55.2 - 47.5 FG%
3.4 - 4.8 TOVPG.

So his per 36 numbers of his career would make his per game points scored, rebounds and assists look even higher as compared to that Boston playoff series. Boston established the blueprint on how to frustrate him and limit Simmons' impact.
5 games is such a small sample size though.  If you take out game 2, this is what Simmons averaged in the series. 

37.8 mpg, 17.8 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 6.25 apg, 50.9%, 4.75 tpg (he also averaged 1.25 steals and 1.0 blocks in those 4 games).  So aside from his assists he was up across the board (and right around his per 36 average from the regular season).  He had 3 of the 5 games shooting greater than 53% from the field (the other was 40%). 

You can't pretend game 2 didn't happen, but game 2 absolutely skews the numbers for Simmons, and with such a small sample size, it skews them a lot.
I could just as easily take out his game 4 performance and the only number it would help is his FG% and make him an average of -17 per game.

Those numbers would be right around 14 PPG, 7 APG, 7 RPG 5 TOVPG in about 37 MPG and of course the above mentioned -17 per game.

So yeah, your point of take one game out works both ways.

You just can't do it. My point is as a series he was game planned for and it worked. It really limited him.
I'm just not sure that is the case.  He had a truly awful game, but the rest of the series performed in line with his regular season performance, which is pretty good since most people perform worse in the playoffs then regular season.  And yeah, you can take out his best game and the numbers look worse, but that also helps prove the point about it being a small sample size, making it difficult to put much stock in those numbers or being able to draw any sort of real correlation. 

And don't get me wrong, Simmons absolutely needs to develop at least a decent outside shot, if for no other reason then just to keep teams honest to really reach his full potential.  However, even if he doesn't he can basically be what he is now for a decade, which is still a very good player and potentially a great player with the right supporting cast.
Yup, it proves it is a small sample size so shouldn't be done and if it shouldn't be done then you take all 5 games into consideration and he obviously was game planned for well. And as a total series he was a -63 or - 12.6 per game when Philly, as a team, was only a -3 per game for the series. I have seen you put a lot of stock in plus minus numbers before. That number shows he was basically a liability to Philly in that series.
Sure.  I know that.  He also wasn't very good against Boston in the regular season in that department either.  Boston was a tough match-up for him and probably will continue to be.  That said, even with the regular season that is a pretty small sample size so I don't put much stock into it.  I mean Gobert was -62 in a 5 game series against Houston as well.  I guess that mean he sucks also.  Boston was better when Brown was on the bench against the Cavs, now Brown wasn't -60, but he was -21 in a series Boston won 3 games all by double digits and was outscored in total by 6 points.

Playoff series, by their nature, are very small sample sizes.  Even ones that go 7 games.  I don't put much stock in any one series for that reason.  It just isn't enough games to make any real determination one way or the other, good or bad about a player.  They are a bit more instructive about teams, but players they really are almost worthless.  And as I said, the C's just aren't a very good match-up for Simmons.  Some times players just don't well against particular teams, which doesn't necessarily translate to other teams. 
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Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1596 on: December 17, 2018, 04:48:06 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Eh, if Simmons' shooting is an issue they can just flip him for some other all-star. 

Pointless to talk about it.  That team is stacked.  Lock the thread.  It's over.

Stacked ????? a six men deep team (and i am generous) is stacked ???
True, I stopped at the:
"if Simmons' shooting is an issue they can just flip him for some other all-star."
Ya'll know GIannis can't shoot either, right?

Simmons is great.  If he's a bad mix, they can trade him for someone else.  Maybe they should use him to trade for Anthony Davis right now.  IF you're the pelicans you probably strongly prefer a package around Ben Simmons than a pu-pu platter offer from the Lakers or Celtics.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1597 on: December 17, 2018, 05:12:02 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Eh, if Simmons' shooting is an issue they can just flip him for some other all-star. 

Pointless to talk about it.  That team is stacked.  Lock the thread.  It's over.

Stacked ????? a six men deep team (and i am generous) is stacked ???
True, I stopped at the:
"if Simmons' shooting is an issue they can just flip him for some other all-star."
Ya'll know GIannis can't shoot either, right?

Simmons is great.  If he's a bad mix, they can trade him for someone else.  Maybe they should use him to trade for Anthony Davis right now.  IF you're the pelicans you probably strongly prefer a package around Ben Simmons than a pu-pu platter offer from the Lakers or Celtics.

Did you miss this from Nick? It was a great post explaining the difference between Giannis and Simmons. "Giannis, for his career has these percentages of shots taken within 10 feet
57.4%
68.4%
68.9%
64.5%
61.7%
73.7%

So he averages about 65% of his shots from within 10 feet on any given year, though this year he is at his career highest of 73.7%. Lots of season still to play so that could go down. Giannis has also shot 652 three pointers his career at 27%.

So, there is a big difference between the two players in how they take shots. Giannis obviously sees he needs to take three pointers to keep the defense honest. Simmons doesn't even try.

And because of that Simmons is putting up almost identical stats as last year and shows no development. Until he starts taking outside shots and hitting them, Simmons will probably just be what he is now for a long time."

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1598 on: December 17, 2018, 05:22:04 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Ya'll know GIannis can't shoot either, right?

The difference is he is not passive, he wants to win, do you get that vibe from Simmons, I don't?

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1599 on: December 17, 2018, 05:46:31 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Eh, if Simmons' shooting is an issue they can just flip him for some other all-star. 

Pointless to talk about it.  That team is stacked.  Lock the thread.  It's over.

Stacked ????? a six men deep team (and i am generous) is stacked ???
True, I stopped at the:
"if Simmons' shooting is an issue they can just flip him for some other all-star."
Ya'll know GIannis can't shoot either, right?

Simmons is great.  If he's a bad mix, they can trade him for someone else.  Maybe they should use him to trade for Anthony Davis right now.  IF you're the pelicans you probably strongly prefer a package around Ben Simmons than a pu-pu platter offer from the Lakers or Celtics.

Did you miss this from Nick? It was a great post explaining the difference between Giannis and Simmons. "Giannis, for his career has these percentages of shots taken within 10 feet
57.4%
68.4%
68.9%
64.5%
61.7%
73.7%

So he averages about 65% of his shots from within 10 feet on any given year, though this year he is at his career highest of 73.7%. Lots of season still to play so that could go down. Giannis has also shot 652 three pointers his career at 27%.

So, there is a big difference between the two players in how they take shots. Giannis obviously sees he needs to take three pointers to keep the defense honest. Simmons doesn't even try.

And because of that Simmons is putting up almost identical stats as last year and shows no development. Until he starts taking outside shots and hitting them, Simmons will probably just be what he is now for a long time."

Yeah. Simmons is easier to guard because you 100% know he wont shoot. Giannis does shoot ao you have to keep that in mind.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1600 on: December 17, 2018, 05:54:50 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Eh, if Simmons' shooting is an issue they can just flip him for some other all-star. 

Pointless to talk about it.  That team is stacked.  Lock the thread.  It's over.

Stacked ????? a six men deep team (and i am generous) is stacked ???
True, I stopped at the:
"if Simmons' shooting is an issue they can just flip him for some other all-star."
Ya'll know GIannis can't shoot either, right?

Simmons is great.  If he's a bad mix, they can trade him for someone else.  Maybe they should use him to trade for Anthony Davis right now.  IF you're the pelicans you probably strongly prefer a package around Ben Simmons than a pu-pu platter offer from the Lakers or Celtics.

Did you miss this from Nick? It was a great post explaining the difference between Giannis and Simmons. "Giannis, for his career has these percentages of shots taken within 10 feet
57.4%
68.4%
68.9%
64.5%
61.7%
73.7%

So he averages about 65% of his shots from within 10 feet on any given year, though this year he is at his career highest of 73.7%. Lots of season still to play so that could go down. Giannis has also shot 652 three pointers his career at 27%.

So, there is a big difference between the two players in how they take shots. Giannis obviously sees he needs to take three pointers to keep the defense honest. Simmons doesn't even try.

And because of that Simmons is putting up almost identical stats as last year and shows no development. Until he starts taking outside shots and hitting them, Simmons will probably just be what he is now for a long time."

Yeah. Simmons is easier to guard because you 100% know he wont shoot. Giannis does shoot ao you have to keep that in mind.

yea i feel like people have to understand the difference between being a mediocre or bad shooter (which is really not that rare and we went through with rondo, versus a complete unwillingness to even attempt a shot if wide open). I think the fact that simmons shoots less this season than last season from outside ten feet is one of the most surprising developments of the season.

Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1601 on: December 17, 2018, 06:35:02 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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Simmons this year has actually regressed in his outside shooting. Last year he took 79% of his shots from inside 10 feet. In last year's playoffs that went to 86%. This season it's at a tick over 90%. He isn't even trying to take shots outside of ten feet. Out of 1459 shots he has taken in his career, playoffs included, he has taken 12 three pointers and made none. This year he has not hit a hot from outside of 16 feet.

Think about that. Out of 336 shots so far this year he hasn't hit one from outside 16 feet. That makes game planning for him and the Philly offense in a 7 game series so easy

How does he compare to Giannis then.

Guess Simmons just isn't freakish enough to justify having zero jumpshot.
Giannis, for his career has these percentages of shots taken within 10 feet
57.4%
68.4%
68.9%
64.5%
61.7%
73.7%

So he averages about 65% of his shots from within 10 feet on any given year, though this year he is at his career highest of 73.7%. Lots of season still to play so that could go down. Giannis has also shot 652 three pointers his career at 27%.

So, there is a big difference between the two players in how they take shots. Giannis obviously sees he needs to take three pointers to keep the defense honest. Simmons doesn't even try.

And because of that Simmons is putting up almost identical stats as last year and shows no development. Until he starts taking outside shots and hitting them, Simmons will probably just be what he is now for a long time.

And if he is going to stay like this most coaches will just steal Boston's game plan from last year and have him put up numbers below his regular season averages in more minutes played per game

Career Reg season - Playoffs vs Boston
33.6 - 36.4 MPG
15.8 - 14.4 PPG
8.4 - 8.2 RPG
8.1 - 7.4 APG
55.2 - 47.5 FG%
3.4 - 4.8 TOVPG.

So his per 36 numbers of his career would make his per game points scored, rebounds and assists look even higher as compared to that Boston playoff series. Boston established the blueprint on how to frustrate him and limit Simmons' impact.
5 games is such a small sample size though.  If you take out game 2, this is what Simmons averaged in the series. 

37.8 mpg, 17.8 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 6.25 apg, 50.9%, 4.75 tpg (he also averaged 1.25 steals and 1.0 blocks in those 4 games).  So aside from his assists he was up across the board (and right around his per 36 average from the regular season).  He had 3 of the 5 games shooting greater than 53% from the field (the other was 40%). 

You can't pretend game 2 didn't happen, but game 2 absolutely skews the numbers for Simmons, and with such a small sample size, it skews them a lot.

How are you gonna say with a straight face that it’s too small a sample size, then doctor the #’s and make it even smaller by removing Game 2, and then make an argument off even less games?
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Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1602 on: December 17, 2018, 06:37:41 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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The trade between Phoenix and Philly showed that Kelly Oubre has much higher trade value then Fultz. Keep on mind that Phoenix actually wants young players, especially point guards.

Seems to me that Philly will once again wait their asset value to deprecate then do a deal. (Noel, Okafor)

This is a good point. I guarantee that Ariza and Daniels was on the table for Fultz and Chandler.

Ariza would help the Sixers a lot, and he is an expiring, which gives them the flexibility this off-season they want. Plus, Daniels is a shooter that could help them.
I don't see why Philly would do that trade at all.

I see why Philly would do it. They get a guy who fits perfectly as they make a run this year. He can pretty much be Robert Covington for them for one year (and he's way better than Chandler). They get another bench shooter. Plus, depending on what Butler resigns for, they would have at least 24 million in cap space to use this off-season to chase another big name (which they wouldn't have with Fultz on the books).

I realize its not what they might have hoped for Fultz, but it would put them in a better position to win this year, in the off-season, and in the next few years.

I don’t know that I’d do that either if I was Philly. Might be a smart basketball move, but hard to pull the trigger on a little over a year after he goes #1, regardless of the strange and exceptional circumstances.
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Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1603 on: December 17, 2018, 06:49:54 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I mean Gobert was -62 in a 5 game series against Houston as well.  I guess that mean he sucks also.  Boston was better when Brown was on the bench against the Cavs, now Brown wasn't -60, but he was -21 in a series Boston won 3 games all by double digits and was outscored in total by 6 points.


When did anyone here say Simmons is a bad player?

Where is the quote on anyone saying Simmons sucks?

I said he regressed in his outside shooting. I said he hasn't developed this year. I said that could hurt him because teams could better game plan for him in a playoff series.

Then I point out how, indeed, in a playoff series he was game planned properly for and it affected his team.

No one said he sucks or was a bad player.


Re: All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)
« Reply #1604 on: December 17, 2018, 06:57:46 PM »

Online RodyTur10

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To not get this discussion all fixed on that playoff series, here some stats about Simmons (ánd Tatum) over their games this season against good teams (unbiased + .500 teams so far).

Ben Simmons (Philadelphia 76ers, 6-6 against + .500 teams)

Per 36 min: 15,2 points / 10,2 rebounds / 7,7 assists / 1,6 steals / 0,8 blocks / 3,9 turnovers
Shooting percentages (57 / 0 / 49 - 57 TS%), AST/TO (2,0), +/- (- 2,3).

He played exactly 36 minutes on average, so this truly are his stats over those 10 games. They aren't much different from his regular play (though 2 scored points less). Rounded he averages: 15/10/8 on 57 TS%, 2,0 AST/TO, which looks very impressive. Simmons didn't take any 3-point-shot by the way.

However, Philadelphia didn't play that well, in fact their record against the top in the East (Toronto, Milwaukee, Indiana and Boston) is currently 1-5. Philadelphia gets outscored by 2,1 points against + .500 teams. Surprisingly with Simmons on the court they do even 0,9 points worse. In total Simmons has a plus/minus of -27.

Jayson Tatum (Boston Celtics, 6-6 against + .500 teams)

Per 36 min: 19,2 points / 6,8 rebounds / 2,6 assists / 0,8 steals / 0,9 blocks /2,1 turnovers
Shooting percentages (45 / 40 / 89 - 57 TS%), AST/TO (1,3), +/- (+ 3,4).

Standardized stats, but Tatum also plays a hefty 33,1 minutes, so not much bias. His scoring is exactly the same as it is against other teams and overall no real difference to notice. His rounded stats: 19/7/3 on 57 TS%, 1,3 AST/TO. His rebounding is less good than Simmons and obviously not a playmaker, but he had 5 games with 20+ points against Simmons none.

Boston's record against + .500 teams is the same (6-6), but they won their games on average by 1,1 point. With Tatum on the court they do even 2 points better. In comparison with Simmons the net rating from Tatum is 5,7 points better. This is quite spectacular.

The general view is that Philadelphia lacks depth. And this certainly shows in advanced stats, where the bench is a net negative on the court and all the starters are huge positives. Yet Simmons' rating is clearly the worst of them. Which is weird, since Simmons plays the majority of his minutes together with the other stars, but for instance against + .500 teams his net rating is 5,2 points less good than Embiid.

Does this mean that Simmons can get good stats as a primary playmaker, but that his play doesn't really yield winning games? Is his lack and willingness of shooting outside the paint so impactful that it gains an overall advantage for the opponent? Is the problem simply that Embiid and Simmons can't play together?