Author Topic: NBA 2019-2020 season thread  (Read 394150 times)

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Re: NBA 2019-2020 season thread
« Reply #1635 on: January 25, 2020, 11:59:17 AM »

Offline wiley

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I don't think Luka gets enough credit for how well he has played this season.


29.1ppg 9.6rpg 9.1apg on a 59.4% TS%


The engine on a team that is on track to break the All-Time offensive rating with a mark of 117.6 points per 100 possessions which would best the Warriors marks of recent years, the Nash Suns teams & the Magic Lakers teams of the 80s.


People went crazy when Nash led those offenses in Phoenix. He had Amare and Marion next to him. Porzingis has done well but has he played as well as either one of those guys? Nevermind both?

What Doncic has done so far this year is incredible.

He deserves MVP consideration.

Agree.  Fun to watch plus staggering numbers.

Re: NBA 2019-2020 season thread
« Reply #1636 on: January 25, 2020, 12:07:57 PM »

Offline W8ting2McHale

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That a 17 year old could dominate a men's professional league tells me more about that league than it does the individual player.

In most sports there are outliers, especially the sports that do not depend on physical development such as football. Sports that depend more on stamina and skill rather than brute strength have outliers that have dominated at a young age.

Dominate players dominate. Tiger Woods was dominating at a young age. Coco Gauff is dominating Women’s tennis at 15. Luka dominated Euroleague basketball. He wasn’t in the NBA at 17 because he wasn’t allowed to be. He’s here now, and he’s dominating at a very young age.

Giannis played Euroleague basketball and didn’t dominate. Was it the league, or the player? The Greek league isn’t even on par with where Luka was playing. Lebron is the only other player that consistently  put up the kind of numbers that Luka is putting up at age 19-20 in the last 2 decades.  Luka is on his way to being an all time player.

Re: NBA 2019-2020 season thread
« Reply #1637 on: January 25, 2020, 12:20:28 PM »

Offline moiso

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I don't think what Luka does in this year's playoffs is going to change my opinion of him.  If he really struggles it's probably going to be because his teammates aren't pulling their weight and keeping the attention of the defense.  I don't expect him to struggle though. 

On a related note, James Harden is has done plenty of playoff choking and he's still looked at as a top 5 player and the best offensive machine in the league. 

Re: NBA 2019-2020 season thread
« Reply #1638 on: January 25, 2020, 12:24:51 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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That a 17 year old could dominate a men's professional league tells me more about that league than it does the individual player.

In most sports there are outliers, especially the sports that do not depend on physical development such as football. Sports that depend more on stamina and skill rather than brute strength have outliers that have dominated at a young age.

Dominate players dominate. Tiger Woods was dominating at a young age. Coco Gauff is dominating Women’s tennis at 15. Luka dominated Euroleague basketball. He wasn’t in the NBA at 17 because he wasn’t allowed to be. He’s here now, and he’s dominating at a very young age.

Giannis played Euroleague basketball and didn’t dominate. Was it the league, or the player? The Greek league isn’t even on par with where Luka was playing. Lebron is the only other player that consistently  put up the kind of numbers that Luka is putting up at age 19-20 in the last 2 decades.  Luka is on his way to being an all time player.
Giannis has never played in the Euroleague. He hasn't even played in the Greek first division. Prior to signing with the Bucks, he was playing for Filathlitikos (a tiny little team based in Zografou, Athens) which was participating in the Greek second division at the time. Giannis was obviously supremely talented, but he wasn't dominating the league. He was averaging 12.2 points (FG%:51.3, 3P%:25.4, FT%:63.3), 4.9 rebs, 1 assist, 1.1 steal and 1 block per game in 21.1 minutes of playing time. His team finished 3rd which meant that they didn't win promotion (top 2 teams got promoted).

Btw, the same goes for Dirk. Prior to signing with the Mavs, he was playing second division basketball in Germany.

Luka is a generational talent. The Euroleague is no joke. It's the second best basketball league in the world. Imo, when all is said and done, Luka is gonna be considered a GOAT candidate.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 12:57:03 PM by Jvalin »

Re: NBA 2019-2020 season thread
« Reply #1639 on: January 25, 2020, 12:56:31 PM »

Offline bdm860

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I don't think what Luka does in this year's playoffs is going to change my opinion of him.  If he really struggles it's probably going to be because his teammates aren't pulling their weight and keeping the attention of the defense.  I don't expect him to struggle though. 

On a related note, James Harden is has done plenty of playoff choking and he's still looked at as a top 5 player and the best offensive machine in the league.

I don't know if I consider losing to the Warriors every year to really be choking in the playoffs, and some years being the only team that challenged them.

For Luka, he's clearly a talent, but seeing him the playoffs will really help establish where he ranks among the current crop of best NBA players.

His current stats of 29/10/9 with 54% eFG%/59% TS% is the bar I'll be holding him up to.

If he puts up a weaker (for him) 24/7/5 and his shooting % drop significantly and the Mavs get swept in 4, I might think, "ok, he's not quite Top 5 yet, definitely not Top 2, still has some developing to do."

If he wins a round or two, while putting up 34/12/8, I'll know he's already arrived.  Or even if he just carries the Mavs to a great 6-7 game series but loses.  Did they just get matched up against a clearly better team?  Did the opposing team game plan to successfully limit Luka's effectiveness?  Did Luka do all he could but his teammates just weren't good enough?  There's a lot of ways this can play out.

In the last couple of pages, I've seen nobody disrespect Luka.  But some posters seem to get offended that we haven't yet anointed him the best player in the NBA.  I've seen nobody deny his talent or say he won't be great or that he won't be even better in a few years.  It's not some huge slight to think he's only the 5th-10th best NBA player currently and not 1 or 2.

For me, how he does in the playoffs this year will say a lot about where he is currently, whether that's #2, #5, #10 best player in the NBA.  None of those rankings is disrespect.  None of those mean he won't get better.  None of those means he won't be an all time great.  Believe it or not, even MJ and LeBron weren't the 2nd best player in the league their 2nd year in the league.

Not sure why it's so offensive to be looking forward to seeing how Luka performing in the playoffs.

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Re: NBA 2019-2020 season thread
« Reply #1640 on: January 25, 2020, 12:57:49 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Is there a place that tracks screen assists or screen quality?

Re: NBA 2019-2020 season thread
« Reply #1641 on: January 25, 2020, 01:09:41 PM »

Offline Who

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Is there a place that tracks screen assists or screen quality?
I remember Mark Cuban tracking that years ago. Eric Dampier and DeSagana Diop ranked 1st and 2nd in the league in whatever the figure was rating. Maybe points per shot off a screen. Something like that.

Both guys were very good screens with their wide bodies but having two guys from the same team rank 1 and 2 maybe says more about the quality of the shooters (like Jason Terry) running off those screens than the screener themselves.

Anyway, that was years ago. Never released the database. Just upping his guys saying they didn't get enough credit for helping the Mavs offense.

So no stats for us but teams are clearly tracking them.

Re: NBA 2019-2020 season thread
« Reply #1642 on: January 25, 2020, 01:33:26 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The Euroleague is no joke. It's the second best basketball league in the world.
See, it's this I disagree with. The Euroleague level of competition is about equal to top 25 college basketball and the G League. It's level of competition isn't anywhere close to the NBA. So though you may call it the 2nd best league in the world, it's like saying Ryan Arcidiacono(Euroleague) is the 2nd best point guard in the room when the other point guards are Brad Wanamaker(G League), Tremont Waters(NCAA basketball) and Magic Johnson(the NBA)

A 17 year old could never dominate the NBA. The greatest of the greatest NBA players really didn't dominate the NBA until they were 20-21 years old, minimum.

Re: NBA 2019-2020 season thread
« Reply #1643 on: January 25, 2020, 01:40:08 PM »

Offline Who

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Is there a place that tracks screen assists or screen quality?

Hey! I found it. Here we go

https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?sort=SCREEN_ASSISTS&dir=1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

I knew I remembered something about screens on the NBA stats page - I thought it was screens per game number because I remember marveling at Alex Len's screen numbers per minute and wondering how the heck he set so many more screens than other players (probably because he did nothing else on offense but set screens) .... anyway, I found screen assists on my search for those numbers.

Re: NBA 2019-2020 season thread
« Reply #1644 on: January 25, 2020, 01:43:19 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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My hope is that Luka can get a Kareem, Worthy, Chief or McHale alongside him sooner than later...

Dude only needs ONE of those types, nowadays....don't think he needs a Big Three.

Hopefully Kristaps can develop along those lines and I'm pulling for him to do so.

Look at LeBron...dude has played with Prime Wade, Chris Bosh, Prime KLove, Kyrie......AD..

Durant has played with Westbrook, Prime Curry, Klay, Draymond.....

I'm REALLY pulling for this dude. His game is even more beautiful with good horses to run with him.

Give him JUST one of those kinds of players from LeBron's or Durant's list and he's set.

Re: NBA 2019-2020 season thread
« Reply #1645 on: January 25, 2020, 02:18:56 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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Is there a place that tracks screen assists or screen quality?
I remember Mark Cuban tracking that years ago. Eric Dampier and DeSagana Diop ranked 1st and 2nd in the league in whatever the figure was rating. Maybe points per shot off a screen. Something like that.

Both guys were very good screens with their wide bodies but having two guys from the same team rank 1 and 2 maybe says more about the quality of the shooters (like Jason Terry) running off those screens than the screener themselves.

Anyway, that was years ago. Never released the database. Just upping his guys saying they didn't get enough credit for helping the Mavs offense.

So no stats for us but teams are clearly tracking them.
Cuban always tries to tell the world how great of a decision maker he is ... Still cant forgive him that he dismantled his championship team because someone advised him that it would start costing him X amount of dollars more if he retained all his stars. This could have ended the Heatles run before it took off lol

Re: NBA 2019-2020 season thread
« Reply #1646 on: January 25, 2020, 02:50:40 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Is there a place that tracks screen assists or screen quality?

Hey! I found it. Here we go

https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?sort=SCREEN_ASSISTS&dir=1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

I knew I remembered something about screens on the NBA stats page - I thought it was screens per game number because I remember marveling at Alex Len's screen numbers per minute and wondering how the heck he set so many more screens than other players (probably because he did nothing else on offense but set screens) .... anyway, I found screen assists on my search for those numbers.


Thanks. That confirms what I've seen. That Daniel Theis is a great screener and works hard on that side of the court.

Re: NBA 2019-2020 season thread
« Reply #1647 on: January 25, 2020, 03:23:48 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Lakers-Sixers tonight.

I know we want the Lakers to win to help our seeding in the East, but dang can't a meteor hit or something?  :P
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Re: NBA 2019-2020 season thread
« Reply #1648 on: January 25, 2020, 03:43:26 PM »

Offline liam

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Lakers-Sixers tonight.

I know we want the Lakers to win to help our seeding in the East, but dang can't a meteor hit or something?  :P

It's a win win no matter who loses it's good!

Re: NBA 2019-2020 season thread
« Reply #1649 on: January 25, 2020, 04:12:10 PM »

Offline byennie

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The Euroleague is no joke. It's the second best basketball league in the world.
See, it's this I disagree with. The Euroleague level of competition is about equal to top 25 college basketball and the G League. It's level of competition isn't anywhere close to the NBA. So though you may call it the 2nd best league in the world, it's like saying Ryan Arcidiacono(Euroleague) is the 2nd best point guard in the room when the other point guards are Brad Wanamaker(G League), Tremont Waters(NCAA basketball) and Magic Johnson(the NBA)

A 17 year old could never dominate the NBA. The greatest of the greatest NBA players really didn't dominate the NBA until they were 20-21 years old, minimum.
I think the problem here is that "best league" and ability to dominate at a young age don't really correlate that well. If you drop Real Madrid into the NCAA, they win the championship hands-down. Heck, put them in the NBA and they're a bad team, but maybe not the worst. Conversely, I think there are top-25 NCAA teams that would be absolutely slaughtered if they competed in EuroLeague. Not because the NCAA lacks high end talent, but because pro basketball is just significantly more disciplined and physical. Guys like Jordan Mickey and Salah Mejri would look like beasts against college kids, they just don't have NBA upside left.

I think it's also worth noting that LeBron was putting up 20-6-5 for a full season while still 19, Kobe played a full season at age 18 about as productive as Luka's age 17 season... KG played a full season at age 19 and was an above average player... it's not unprecedented for teenagers to produce in the NBA. Might not be MVP candidates, but their overall production isn't all that different from what Doncic achieved.

For me the question becomes, where is Luka developmentally? We saw the arc that Rubio took... he's still a good NBA player but he peaked very early. NCAA kids almost always have a lot of upside left... *because* they are less developed and coming from an inferior league IMO.