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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: bellerephon on July 15, 2018, 10:32:07 AM

Title: Semi to Maine?
Post by: bellerephon on July 15, 2018, 10:32:07 AM
After reading part 1 of the summer league notebook, I wonder if Semi will see some time in Maine this year. Here is a quote from the article:

"6. On Semi Ojeleye: “He was in over his head last year. We never planned to play him as much as we did. When Gordon (Hayward) went down, it changed our entire plan. He more than held his own on defense, but offense needs work. He had to think his way through things. By the playoffs, it was finally all coming together. He really could have used some time in Maine (with the NBAGL Red Claws).”

It would certainly be unusual for a second year player who got as many minutes as Semi did last year to go to the G-league, but with the number of guys ahead of him on the depth chart and the fact that his three point shooting has not improved it might give him a better chance to grow offensively.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: gouki88 on July 15, 2018, 10:53:51 AM
If Morris, Brown, Hayward, Tatum and Horford are all healthy then I have some serious difficulty seeing him getting any minutes, as those guys will take up basically all the minutes at the 3 and the 4. I don't think sending him down to the G-League would necessarily be bad, as confidence seems to be a really big barrier for him.
Once he gets his NBA 3 point range in, I think he'll be very useful as a 3&D guy off the bench. He's already proven himself as an NBA caliber swing defender, he just needs to get better on offence
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: hwangjini_1 on July 15, 2018, 11:34:18 AM
with semi and williams on their team, the fighting crustaceans should be fun to watch. add yabusele to the mix and i will actually pay attention to them this season.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Alleyoopster on July 15, 2018, 11:43:06 AM
Insulting idea...he's proven he can play at a high level in NBA playoffs. Why would the Celtics even consider the idea even if there is a logjam at his position. Chances are, neither Haywood or Kyrie will be at full strength this season. We don't know if Marcus Smart will be back. Plus, he knows the system. 
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: bellerephon on July 15, 2018, 11:47:59 AM
It’s not an insult. He showed he can play defense in the NBA, but he also showed he cannot contribute on offense. If it helps his development that’s all that matters. Given how far he is down the depth chart it might make sense.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: PAOBoston on July 15, 2018, 12:04:07 PM
I don't expect any of the starters to go beyond 30 mins a game. There will be minutes and certain matchups where he will be useful/needed. I don't think he will benefit much in Portland at this point.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Eddie20 on July 15, 2018, 12:13:40 PM
It’s not an insult. He showed he can play defense in the NBA, but he also showed he cannot contribute on offense. If it helps his development that’s all that matters. Given how far he is down the depth chart it might make sense.

I agree. Our bench will consist of Smart, Rozier, Theis, Morris, and Baynes. Plus, you could argue that Wanamaker might see Larkin type minutes too. So as it stands Semi will either be the 11th or 12th man in the rotation. Also, due to Semi's lack of ballhandling Stevens likes to use him as a small ball 4, so with so many guys that can play minutes there (Horford, Tatum, Hayward, Theis, Morris) he'll be hardpressed to find minutes other than via blowouts or situational type stuff.

I can see him going down to Maine here and there just to get game reps.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: nickagneta on July 15, 2018, 12:20:32 PM
The article said last year he could have used time at Maine but couldn't because of his offense but that by the end of the year he understood things. That doesn't mean he needs to go this year. AT ALL.

Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Horford, Rozier, Smart, Morris, Baynes, Theis and Semi will be our 11 man rotation for the regular season. That will leave 2 more spots open for games. Then 2 more spots open for guys that will most likely be in inactive a bunch or in Maine from these players: Yabusele, Wanamaker, Williams and either Nader or Bird, whichever of those final two make the team.

Wanamaker is a rookie/vet like Theis and Larkin were last year. No way he goes back and forth to Maine. So I see 3 players taking turns traveling up I-95 all year...Williams, Yabusele and Nader/Bird. I think Yabu will be in Maine the least.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: bellerephon on July 15, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
I'm not necessarily predicting he will go to Maine, I could easily see the Celtics deciding that it is not worthwhile. But I think his offense is so far from playable right now it would not shock me if it happened. He is not nearly so ready as many here seem to think. He plays good on ball defense, but he literally adds nothing on offense, and still has to improve his off ball defense. I agree that he is likely to be the 11th man, but I don't expect him to get much more than 5 or so minutes per game at that spot. He could even drop to 12th if Wanamaker shows he can contribute.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on July 15, 2018, 01:26:42 PM
You can shoot over semi ,  but you can't go though , over or around him. 


Stevens knows when to pull the trigger and put him or Smatt on certain players .   


Hea a good role model for kids .
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: More Banners on July 15, 2018, 01:29:43 PM
He would have a chance to get some run as the playmaker/go-to scorer to develop his game on that end. Good idea.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: billysan on July 15, 2018, 01:32:21 PM
I'm not necessarily predicting he will go to Maine, I could easily see the Celtics deciding that it is not worthwhile. But I think his offense is so far from playable right now it would not shock me if it happened. He is not nearly so ready as many here seem to think. He plays good on ball defense, but he literally adds nothing on offense, and still has to improve his off ball defense. I agree that he is likely to be the 11th man, but I don't expect him to get much more than 5 or so minutes per game at that spot. He could even drop to 12th if Wanamaker shows he can contribute.

Agree with this. I would be surprised if he is sent down unless really struggling. A sound replacement for Morris defensively but will not see many minutes except as an injury replacement.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: celticinorlando on July 15, 2018, 02:25:23 PM
Think starters playing time will be regulated especially Hayward and Kyrie
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: GreenWarrior on July 15, 2018, 05:33:52 PM
I think the G league can benefit some players, but I personally think it does more harm than good. it seems like some guys can develop bad habits like not focusing on defense.

I think at this point sending semi down would probably make no sense, esp. considering since they threw 'em in the deep end last yr. and he survived.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Chief Macho on July 15, 2018, 05:35:56 PM
nah,  i see him getting time.  wouodnt be shocked by a move to change the show bench still
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: bellerephon on July 15, 2018, 05:37:35 PM
I agree starter minutes will be moderated. I think the five starters plus Marcus Smart, if he stays, will get about 30 minutes per game each. If Baynes and Theis each play 10 to 12, Morris around 20, and Rozier 15 or so, that simply doesn't leave much time for anyone else. Those are all modest amounts of time to expect those players to put in on a game to game basis. Of course if there are injuries that changes things, but if the Celts stay healthy it's hard to see where serious minutes come from. Sure, they can find a few here and there, but I have a hard time seeing Semi playing 10 plus minutes a game unless someone is hurt.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on July 15, 2018, 06:02:39 PM
Semi needs to play and learn to score. On this team he will not play much. I am sure he will shuttle with Yabu and Bird to main. We also have another guard in Wanamaker too. Brown may play some three too. Semi is an NBA player for sure. But he will play in Maine to keep him fresh.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: mmmmm on July 15, 2018, 08:37:52 PM
Semi is too versatile.  He'll find minutes.

Your mistake is thinking in terms of 'only 5 minutes per game'.  What is more likely to happen is that he'll not play at all in a couple of games and get 15 minutes in the next game.   That's fairly common for the 8-11 guys in the rotation.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: bellerephon on July 15, 2018, 08:55:29 PM
He’s not versatile, he’s totally one dimensional. He’s a good defender but adds nothing on offense. I agree that it’s more likely to be no minutes for a few games and then 10 or so, but that still isn’t enough to help him grow.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: nickagneta on July 15, 2018, 08:58:39 PM
Not sure how much Portland would help Semi. I mean, other than Terry Rozier have the Celtics had ANY luck with sending players to Maine and then have that player come to the NBA and make something of themselves?
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Eddie20 on July 15, 2018, 10:12:45 PM
Semi is too versatile.  He'll find minutes.

Where, though?

Say the starters each get 30 minutes, which is a fair guess considering these were their averages last season:
Irving 32.2
Horford 31.6
Brown 30.7
Tatum 30.5

It would leave 90 minutes for the following players (last season's MPG in parentheses):
Smart (29.9)
Rozier (25.9)
Morris (26.8 )
Baynes (18.3)
Theis (14.9)
Semi (15.8 )
Wanamaker (N/A)

Now let's say Smart goes down to 25, Rozier to 20, Morris to 20, and Baynes to 15, which I don't think Smart or Rozier will be that low, but let's say they are for the sake of argument. That would now leave 10 total minutes for Theis, Semi, and Wanamaker.

So, yes, this minutes crunch is going to be real and barring another season of injury issues, Semi will be on the outside looking in of the rotation. You're right, though, he may not have his MPG impacted too much because he'll see a lot of DNP-CD's, but his total minutes (last season he played 1150 minutes) will be greatly reduced.

That's why I think he'll get some action in Maine, but they'll be calculated stints based on scheduling. For example, let's say we're off a few days he might shuttle back and forth between a C's practice, a Red Claw game, and then back to the C's to play a situational/non-rotation player role.

The only other way, besides injury, he could land in the rotation is if we consolidate via trade.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: LilRip on July 15, 2018, 11:08:07 PM
I don’t see how he can get regular minutes barring injury. My guess is he will be called up and sent down repeatedly and be available throughout the playoffs

We have Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Horford as starters. And then Smart, Rozier, Baynes, Theis and Morris who all need minutes. Semi is the 11th (or 12th depending on Wanamaker) guy on our depth chart and this speaks to the depth that we have. Unfortunately for him, it means slim chances for regular PT
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: nickagneta on July 15, 2018, 11:35:07 PM
Semi was 9th on the team in total minutes last year when Stevens said he was mostly clueless offensively until the end of the year and playoffs. He averaged almost 16 minutes per game. The only player that was out last year that was in front of him in his position was Hayward.

Injuries to and days off for  players in front of him will mean big minutes in some to a bunch of ganes. There will be games that are blowouts where he will get big minutes. There will be games where Stevens will play him big minutes because the guys in front of him are playing awful defense. And there will be games he just gets 5-8 minutes and there will be games he doesn't play.

Semi will get minutes and at year's end he will probably have the 10th - 11th most total minutes and have over 10 minutes per game though I doubt he is in all 82 games. Because he will see DNP-CDs this will help boost his minutes per game.

I just see no way he goes to Maine. He is a NBA role bench player. Stevens rewards players that play defense the way he wants it played. Semi does that. Players that haven't proven they are NBA role players that can play defense like Stevens wants: Yabusele, Wanamaker, Williams, Nader and Bird. Those are your Celtic pkayers that could be spending a bunch of time in Maine. Not Semi.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: pokeKingCurtis on July 16, 2018, 01:10:42 AM
Semi needs opportunities to hone his offense against NBA competition, not the G-League (because with his size, strength and skills I think he'd probably at least average double digits there, maybe even 20 PPG).
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: iadera on July 16, 2018, 02:27:31 AM
Insulting idea...he's proven he can play at a high level in NBA playoffs. Why would the Celtics even consider the idea even if there is a logjam at his position. Chances are, neither Haywood or Kyrie will be at full strength this season. We don't know if Marcus Smart will be back. Plus, he knows the system.

Agree.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: CFAN38 on July 16, 2018, 06:56:48 AM
depending on the health of the roster it wouldn't shock me if Semi got a few quick G-league assignments. Not that he will go up and spend a week with the team but a situation where the team get get him up to Maine to play a game without missing anything more then a practice with the Cs.

Long term Semi is going to be a big piece of the Cs bench however this season he will likely be the victim of a major minutes crunch. If the Cs resign Smart (looking likely with the QO) without making any other major moves (minor moves likely being Bird signing, Nader being waived, and 2 (2-way) guys being signed) then the bench is arguably the deepest in the NBA. The best 5 off the bench Rozier, Smart, Semi, Morris and Baynes would likely beat many lottery team in a 7 game series.   

 
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Sophomore on July 16, 2018, 08:01:24 AM
Insulting idea...he's proven he can play at a high level in NBA playoffs. Why would the Celtics even consider the idea even if there is a logjam at his position. Chances are, neither Haywood or Kyrie will be at full strength this season. We don't know if Marcus Smart will be back. Plus, he knows the system.

Agree.

It's not really about insulting him. The question is: what is going to help Semi continue to develop? He's proven himself as a defender, but his offensive game needs work. Will he be able to continue growing if he's the 9th  or 10th man in the NBA rotation, or will he benefit from getting some burn in the G-League? I think it's an interesting question for the team.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: bellerephon on July 16, 2018, 08:31:11 AM
Also consider he's not going to be the 9th or 10th man, he's going to be the 11th or 12th man. It's hard to see him playing much with that many guys ahead of him on the depth chart.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: hwangjini_1 on July 16, 2018, 08:38:49 AM
Semi was 9th on the team in total minutes last year when Stevens said he was mostly clueless offensively until the end of the year and playoffs. He averaged almost 16 minutes per game. The only player that was out last year that was in front of him in his position was Hayward.

Injuries to and days off for  players in front of him will mean big minutes in some to a bunch of ganes. There will be games that are blowouts where he will get big minutes. There will be games where Stevens will play him big minutes because the guys in front of him are playing awful defense. And there will be games he just gets 5-8 minutes and there will be games he doesn't play.

Semi will get minutes and at year's end he will probably have the 10th - 11th most total minutes and have over 10 minutes per game though I doubt he is in all 82 games. Because he will see DNP-CDs this will help boost his minutes per game.

I just see no way he goes to Maine. He is a NBA role bench player. Stevens rewards players that play defense the way he wants it played. Semi does that. Players that haven't proven they are NBA role players that can play defense like Stevens wants: Yabusele, Wanamaker, Williams, Nader and Bird. Those are your Celtic pkayers that could be spending a bunch of time in Maine. Not Semi.
Very good post that was well argued, informed, and cogent. It changed how I viewed semi’s playing time.

Thank you and a tp.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Roy H. on July 16, 2018, 08:47:15 AM
Sporadic minutes plus practing with the team is probably more useful than playing against less sophisticated offenses and defenses in Portland.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: pearljammer10 on July 16, 2018, 09:12:18 AM
No.

He proved as a rookie he could get minutes here and there and serve a role. No reason for him to play in Maine. We need his skill set on defense in certain matchups.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Hoopvortex on July 16, 2018, 02:59:28 PM
After reading part 1 of the summer league notebook, I wonder if Semi will see some time in Maine this year. Here is a quote from the article:

"6. On Semi Ojeleye: “He was in over his head last year. We never planned to play him as much as we did. When Gordon (Hayward) went down, it changed our entire plan. He more than held his own on defense, but offense needs work. He had to think his way through things. By the playoffs, it was finally all coming together. He really could have used some time in Maine (with the NBAGL Red Claws).”

It would certainly be unusual for a second year player who got as many minutes as Semi did last year to go to the G-league, but with the number of guys ahead of him on the depth chart and the fact that his three point shooting has not improved it might give him a better chance to grow offensively.

I wonder who the quotation is from, and why it's anonymous. In any case, obviously Brad and Danny thought otherwise; he got rotation minutes all year, even after Morris came back, even after Morris came back the second time, even after Moose was signed.

As for his 3-pt shooting improving or not - he shot .440 after the all-star break. That looks like "improvement", I'd say.

It’s not an insult. He showed he can play defense in the NBA, but he also showed he cannot contribute on offense.

Even your anonymous source says, "By the playoffs, it was finally all coming together".

Left and right handed dribbles, changing hands to avoid the defender, getting his shoulder down and into the defender's chest to get around him, finishing through contact, eurosteps... he shows a range of skills, though we didn't get to see a whole lot last year.

But for me the finest moment was in the playoffs: gets the ball at the arc at "2pm", fakes the pass to Rozier in the left corner to get the first defender going that way, fakes the shot to draw the closeout from the second defender, then delivers the simple pass to a wide-open Jaylen at "12 o'clock" for the game winner. I'd call that a nice "contribution": unselfish, well timed, skilled.

Of course if there are injuries that changes things, but if the Celts stay healthy it's hard to see where serious minutes come from. Sure, they can find a few here and there, but I have a hard time seeing Semi playing 10 plus minutes a game unless someone is hurt.

"If there are injuries..." - there will be injuries.  It is rare, in fact, for any NBA player to play 82 games in a season.

Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: greece66 on July 16, 2018, 03:11:05 PM
@Hoopvortex


Had a look at your comment history, wish you wrote more often.


And yes, psychology was a bummer.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: bellerephon on July 16, 2018, 03:18:02 PM
It's not my source, it's from the article right here on Celticsblog. As for his shooting after the break, guys get hot and cold, you can't look at one stretch, you need to consider the whole season. Besides, if we want to play that game we could note he shot 27% in the playoffs. He got worse when it mattered most.

As far as the moves you note, I did not see him do any of those things well in games. And that is all that matters. It does not matter what he did in college in a lesser conference against lesser competition as a 4 year player. It only matters what he does in the NBA. So far that is play good defense, and be useless on offense. That makes him a defensive sub at the end of the bench and no more.

I agree there will be injuries, and when that happens he will play some. And when the injured player comes back, Semi will go back to the bench. But if the team stays relatively healthy, his minutes will, I expect, be fairly limited. I do not expect him to be part of the rotation.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Hoopvortex on July 16, 2018, 03:19:33 PM
@Hoopvortex


Had a look at your comment history, wish you wrote more often.


And yes, psychology was a bummer.

Many thanks, my friend. I'll be watching for your posts.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Hoopvortex on July 16, 2018, 10:14:04 PM


As far as the moves you note, I did not see him do any of those things well in games

In that case, two pieces of advice:

1) Make the rewind button your best friend;

2) Pay attention to what coaches say, and assume that they know better than you. And remember: one good observation is worth more than all of your judgments!

.
I do not expect him to be part of the rotation.

Maybe the third thing would be to test yourself by making real-world predictions. Bravo!
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Eddie20 on July 16, 2018, 10:26:32 PM


As far as the moves you note, I did not see him do any of those things well in games

In that case, two pieces of advice:

1) Make the rewind button your best friend;

2) Pay attention to what coaches say, and assume that they know better than you. And one good observation is worth more than all of your judgments!

.
I do not expect him to be part of the rotation.

Maybe the third thing would be to test yourself by making real-world predictions. Bravo!

What coaches say, particularly Stevens, is usually coach speak and should be taken with a giant grain of salt. Unless you can find evidence of Stevens not being complimentary of all his players and criticizing them in the media, then I'll chalk it up as just that.  For example, don't your remember Stevens saying he was Rondo's biggest fan and couldn't wait to coach him?

Here are some other gems...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw3LDbhXw2U
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: bellerephon on July 16, 2018, 10:38:27 PM
This. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that they know more than the coaches. But it is well known that coaches often try to build up their players confidence and say positive things. It is important not to take such statements at face value.

The evidence is clear that Semi really struggled offensively last year. He had some good moments to be sure, but overall he had a poor year on offense. He was the worst offensive rotation player on the team last year (excluding guys like Nader and Yabu who were not rotation players). That is not an outlandish claim, the stats back it up. Teams would literally leave him unguarded at the three point line and drop his defender almost into the paint. They had no fear of him shooting the three or attacking the rim.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Hoopvortex on July 16, 2018, 10:46:42 PM


As far as the moves you note, I did not see him do any of those things well in games

In that case, two pieces of advice:

1) Make the rewind button your best friend;

2) Pay attention to what coaches say, and assume that they know better than you. And one good observation is worth more than all of your judgments!

.
I do not expect him to be part of the rotation.

Maybe the third thing would be to test yourself by making real-world predictions. Bravo!

What coaches say, particularly Stevens, is usually coach speak and should be taken with a giant grain of salt. Unless you can find evidence of Stevens not being complimentary of all his players and criticizing them in the media, then I'll chalk it up as just that.  For example, don't your remember Stevens saying he was Rondo's biggest fan and couldn't wait to coach him?

Here are some other gems...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw3LDbhXw2U

How about you? Would you care to make a minutes prediction for Semi Ojeleye?
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: bogg on July 16, 2018, 10:51:52 PM


As far as the moves you note, I did not see him do any of those things well in games

In that case, two pieces of advice:

1) Make the rewind button your best friend;

2) Pay attention to what coaches say, and assume that they know better than you. And one good observation is worth more than all of your judgments!

.
I do not expect him to be part of the rotation.

Maybe the third thing would be to test yourself by making real-world predictions. Bravo!

What coaches say, particularly Stevens, is usually coach speak and should be taken with a giant grain of salt. Unless you can find evidence of Stevens not being complimentary of all his players and criticizing them in the media, then I'll chalk it up as just that.  For example, don't your remember Stevens saying he was Rondo's biggest fan and couldn't wait to coach him?

Here are some other gems...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw3LDbhXw2U

How about you? Would you care to make a minutes prediction for Semi Ojeleye?


I think it's tough to say until we see what the final version of the roster looks like. If Smart returns, Morris isn't moved, and no other major trades are made I think you'll see a period to open the season, maybe the first 6-8 weeks, where Semi doesn't see very much time on the court. Once you start to have some injuries and the team starts to selectively rest players I think Semi's going to be the guy who moves from the very fringe of the rotation into something looking more like a traditional bench role.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on July 16, 2018, 10:51:53 PM
@Hoopvortex


Had a look at your comment history, wish you wrote more often.


And yes, psychology was a bummer.

 >:(
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Hoopvortex on July 16, 2018, 10:53:21 PM
This. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that they know more than the coaches. But it is well known that coaches often try to build up their players confidence and say positive things. It is important not to take such statements at face value.


I meant coaches explaining the game. Brad is brilliant at it, of course, but who I had in mind especially was guys like Jeff van Gundy, Mike Fratello, Hubie, and others.

What you need, my young friend, is patient study.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Beat LA on July 16, 2018, 10:56:57 PM
@Hoopvortex


Had a look at your comment history, wish you wrote more often.


And yes, psychology was a bummer.

Nah.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: bellerephon on July 16, 2018, 10:57:17 PM


As far as the moves you note, I did not see him do any of those things well in games

In that case, two pieces of advice:

1) Make the rewind button your best friend;

2) Pay attention to what coaches say, and assume that they know better than you. And one good observation is worth more than all of your judgments!

.
I do not expect him to be part of the rotation.

Maybe the third thing would be to test yourself by making real-world predictions. Bravo!

What coaches say, particularly Stevens, is usually coach speak and should be taken with a giant grain of salt. Unless you can find evidence of Stevens not being complimentary of all his players and criticizing them in the media, then I'll chalk it up as just that.  For example, don't your remember Stevens saying he was Rondo's biggest fan and couldn't wait to coach him?

Here are some other gems...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw3LDbhXw2U

How about you? Would you care to make a minutes prediction for Semi Ojeleye?


I think it's tough to say until we see what the final version of the roster looks like. If Smart returns, Morris isn't moved, and no other major trades are made I think you'll see a period to open the season, maybe the first 6-8 weeks, where Semi doesn't see very much time on the court. Once you start to have some injuries and the team starts to selectively rest players I think Semi's going to be the guy who moves from the very fringe of the rotation into something looking more like a traditional bench role.

I would agree with this. Whenever there is an injury, unless it's one of the ball handlers, Semi is a guy the Celtics will look to. If there is a season-ending or long term injury, then I think he would see significant time. When everyone is healthy I don't think he will play much. Of course all of this could change if the roster is different that we expect.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: bellerephon on July 16, 2018, 11:00:04 PM
This. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that they know more than the coaches. But it is well known that coaches often try to build up their players confidence and say positive things. It is important not to take such statements at face value.


I meant coaches explaining the game. Brad is brilliant at it, of course, but who I had in mind especially was guys like Jeff van Gundy, Mike Fratello, Hubie, and others.

What you need, my young friend, is patient study.
I'll freely admit that I don't pay much attention to what they say. Do you have quotes from these coaches stating that Semi is a high quality offensive player?
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Bobshot on July 16, 2018, 11:07:45 PM
Semi and Bird got rested for that Portland game--which tells you how serious Ainge was about winning it. Looks like he wanted the players out of Vegas ASAP. It also tells me those two guys are making the team. Yabu played, and is probably another. Then there's Williams, and he probably will have to show something in training camp and pre-season not to wind up in Maine.
But he has skills no other team player has, and if he shows anything and is healthy he will stick.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Hoopvortex on July 16, 2018, 11:12:51 PM
This. I don't think anyone here is suggesting that they know more than the coaches. But it is well known that coaches often try to build up their players confidence and say positive things. It is important not to take such statements at face value.


I meant coaches explaining the game. Brad is brilliant at it, of course, but who I had in mind especially was guys like Jeff van Gundy, Mike Fratello, Hubie, and others.

What you need, my young friend, is patient study.
I'll freely admit that I don't pay much attention to what they say. Do you have quotes from these coaches stating that Semi is a high quality offensive player?

I’m talking about learning how the game is played and being able to see what’s actually going on.

Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Eddie20 on July 16, 2018, 11:36:21 PM


As far as the moves you note, I did not see him do any of those things well in games

In that case, two pieces of advice:

1) Make the rewind button your best friend;

2) Pay attention to what coaches say, and assume that they know better than you. And one good observation is worth more than all of your judgments!

.
I do not expect him to be part of the rotation.

Maybe the third thing would be to test yourself by making real-world predictions. Bravo!

What coaches say, particularly Stevens, is usually coach speak and should be taken with a giant grain of salt. Unless you can find evidence of Stevens not being complimentary of all his players and criticizing them in the media, then I'll chalk it up as just that.  For example, don't your remember Stevens saying he was Rondo's biggest fan and couldn't wait to coach him?

Here are some other gems...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw3LDbhXw2U

How about you? Would you care to make a minutes prediction for Semi Ojeleye?

Roster as is, with Smart back, approximately 5 mpg.

What's your prediction?
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: trickybilly on July 16, 2018, 11:40:05 PM
I would say a bit more than 5 mpg... probably closer to 9.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: nickagneta on July 16, 2018, 11:52:33 PM


As far as the moves you note, I did not see him do any of those things well in games

In that case, two pieces of advice:

1) Make the rewind button your best friend;

2) Pay attention to what coaches say, and assume that they know better than you. And one good observation is worth more than all of your judgments!

.
I do not expect him to be part of the rotation.

Maybe the third thing would be to test yourself by making real-world predictions. Bravo!

What coaches say, particularly Stevens, is usually coach speak and should be taken with a giant grain of salt. Unless you can find evidence of Stevens not being complimentary of all his players and criticizing them in the media, then I'll chalk it up as just that.  For example, don't your remember Stevens saying he was Rondo's biggest fan and couldn't wait to coach him?

Here are some other gems...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw3LDbhXw2U

How about you? Would you care to make a minutes prediction for Semi Ojeleye?

Roster as is, with Smart back, approximately 5 mpg.

What's your prediction?
Bad prediction. You know who averaged more than 5 mpg for the Celtics last year?

Allen 5.9
Yabusele 7.1
Bird 8.8
Gibson 10
Nader 10.9

Of course they didn't play many games, but all above 5 minutes per

Of players that played in at least 40 games, which I thinj Semi would play in, Nader had the least MPG at 10.9

So I could see Semi with at least 10 mpg this year.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Hoopvortex on July 17, 2018, 12:05:12 AM


As far as the moves you note, I did not see him do any of those things well in games

In that case, two pieces of advice:

1) Make the rewind button your best friend;

2) Pay attention to what coaches say, and assume that they know better than you. And one good observation is worth more than all of your judgments!

.
I do not expect him to be part of the rotation.

Maybe the third thing would be to test yourself by making real-world predictions. Bravo!

What coaches say, particularly Stevens, is usually coach speak and should be taken with a giant grain of salt. Unless you can find evidence of Stevens not being complimentary of all his players and criticizing them in the media, then I'll chalk it up as just that.  For example, don't your remember Stevens saying he was Rondo's biggest fan and couldn't wait to coach him?

Here are some other gems...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw3LDbhXw2U

How about you? Would you care to make a minutes prediction for Semi Ojeleye?

Roster as is, with Smart back, approximately 5 mpg.

What's your prediction?

12.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Eddie20 on July 17, 2018, 12:10:49 AM


As far as the moves you note, I did not see him do any of those things well in games

In that case, two pieces of advice:

1) Make the rewind button your best friend;

2) Pay attention to what coaches say, and assume that they know better than you. And one good observation is worth more than all of your judgments!

.
I do not expect him to be part of the rotation.

Maybe the third thing would be to test yourself by making real-world predictions. Bravo!

What coaches say, particularly Stevens, is usually coach speak and should be taken with a giant grain of salt. Unless you can find evidence of Stevens not being complimentary of all his players and criticizing them in the media, then I'll chalk it up as just that.  For example, don't your remember Stevens saying he was Rondo's biggest fan and couldn't wait to coach him?

Here are some other gems...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw3LDbhXw2U

How about you? Would you care to make a minutes prediction for Semi Ojeleye?

Roster as is, with Smart back, approximately 5 mpg.

What's your prediction?
Bad prediction. You know who averaged more than 5 mpg for the Celtics last year?

Allen 5.9
Yabusele 7.1
Bird 8.8
Gibson 10
Nader 10.9

Of course they didn't play many games, but all above 5 minutes per

Of players that played in at least 40 games, which I thinj Semi would play in, Nader had the least MPG at 10.9

So I could see Semi with at least 10 mpg this year.

Those are some really bad examples. Allen, Bird, and Gibson played a combined 35 games. To expand my prediction it's because I expect us to be really good and with limited injuries (hopefully) Semi will be involved in a lot of blowouts. I also think he's going to be getting quite a few DNP-CD's.

Things like significant injuries may skew numbers, but with a healthy 10 (Starters + Smart, Morris, Baynes, Theis, and Rozier) 5 MPG is all you can reasonably expect.

So, that said, I'll flip it over to the Semi will be in the rotation contingent, with those 10 all available, how many minutes does Semi get?
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Eddie20 on July 17, 2018, 12:13:07 AM


As far as the moves you note, I did not see him do any of those things well in games

In that case, two pieces of advice:

1) Make the rewind button your best friend;

2) Pay attention to what coaches say, and assume that they know better than you. And one good observation is worth more than all of your judgments!

.
I do not expect him to be part of the rotation.

Maybe the third thing would be to test yourself by making real-world predictions. Bravo!

What coaches say, particularly Stevens, is usually coach speak and should be taken with a giant grain of salt. Unless you can find evidence of Stevens not being complimentary of all his players and criticizing them in the media, then I'll chalk it up as just that.  For example, don't your remember Stevens saying he was Rondo's biggest fan and couldn't wait to coach him?

Here are some other gems...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw3LDbhXw2U

How about you? Would you care to make a minutes prediction for Semi Ojeleye?

Roster as is, with Smart back, approximately 5 mpg.

What's your prediction?

12.

Is that overall or with a fully healthy rotation? I'm assuming it's the latter since you expect him to be part of the rotation. If so, how are you splitting those minutes?
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: greece66 on July 17, 2018, 01:45:40 AM


As far as the moves you note, I did not see him do any of those things well in games

In that case, two pieces of advice:

1) Make the rewind button your best friend;

2) Pay attention to what coaches say, and assume that they know better than you. And one good observation is worth more than all of your judgments!

.
I do not expect him to be part of the rotation.

Maybe the third thing would be to test yourself by making real-world predictions. Bravo!

What coaches say, particularly Stevens, is usually coach speak and should be taken with a giant grain of salt. Unless you can find evidence of Stevens not being complimentary of all his players and criticizing them in the media, then I'll chalk it up as just that.  For example, don't your remember Stevens saying he was Rondo's biggest fan and couldn't wait to coach him?

Here are some other gems...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw3LDbhXw2U (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw3LDbhXw2U)


IMO Stevens (and Kerr btw) is among the most straight forward coaches in the NBA. Ppl miss it  bcs of their positivity. Coaches like Snyder on the other hand, come across as honest bcs they are emotional.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Hoopvortex on July 17, 2018, 12:26:07 PM


As far as the moves you note, I did not see him do any of those things well in games

In that case, two pieces of advice:

1) Make the rewind button your best friend;

2) Pay attention to what coaches say, and assume that they know better than you. And one good observation is worth more than all of your judgments!

.
I do not expect him to be part of the rotation.

Maybe the third thing would be to test yourself by making real-world predictions. Bravo!

What coaches say, particularly Stevens, is usually coach speak and should be taken with a giant grain of salt. Unless you can find evidence of Stevens not being complimentary of all his players and criticizing them in the media, then I'll chalk it up as just that.  For example, don't your remember Stevens saying he was Rondo's biggest fan and couldn't wait to coach him?

Here are some other gems...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw3LDbhXw2U

How about you? Would you care to make a minutes prediction for Semi Ojeleye?

Roster as is, with Smart back, approximately 5 mpg.

What's your prediction?

12.

Is that overall or with a fully healthy rotation? I'm assuming it's the latter since you expect him to be part of the rotation. If so, how are you splitting those minutes?

Overall. Check back in April.

I'm not sure what a "fully healthy rotation" would mean, beyond "no one misses any games" - but it doesn't seem likely that you mean that; I think we all know that that won't happen.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: nickagneta on July 17, 2018, 01:03:20 PM
Even if everyone is healthy, I think between small injuries and Stevens giving guys days off for rest, you'll see around 30 player games being missed by Horford, Morris, Hayward, Tatum, Brown and Smart. Those minutes for those player games will go to Semi and he could easily average 15-20 minutes per game for those 30 games. And that's with good health. Add that to small regular rotation minutes and games with big minutes due to blowouts and I just can't see Semi averaging less than 10-12 mpg for as many games as he plays.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Hoopvortex on July 17, 2018, 02:31:40 PM
Even if everyone is healthy, I think between small injuries and Stevens giving guys days off for rest, you'll see around 30 player games being missed by Horford, Morris, Hayward, Tatum, Brown and Smart. Those minutes for those player games will go to Semi and he could easily average 15-20 minutes per game for those 30 games. And that's with good health. Add that to small regular rotation minutes and games with big minutes due to blowouts and I just can't see Semi averaging less than 10-12 mpg for as many games as he plays.

On the whole this looks logical.  I thought I'd flesh it out a bit.

Picking four guys out of your list...

Smart has averaged 65 games in four seasons.
Horford 75
Morris 74
Brown 74 in two seasons...

Assuming that they play their recent average number of games, that's already a total of 40 missed games. Let's assume really good luck, and cut that in half, leaving 20. If you multiply that by the total average minutes that each of them played last season (119), you get 2380 minutes missed - for just those four.

I'm suggesting a scenario way more optimistic than your 30 missed by six players, and there is still a ton of available minutes.

Ojeleye played 1150 last season, which was 15.8 per game. (He had 4 DNP-CD's and 4 out for the back injury.)

This is not a prediction, it's to demonstrate how workable getting Semi rotation minutes would be, even given Boston's depth. Obviously we could go through the list of likely rotation players to get a fuller sense of what's predictable for available minutes; it would only add to what's available.

The real issue is whether or not he merits rotation minutes, and it looks to me as though the coaching staff have already settled that for themselves. They had him in at crunch time frequently last year, and he played a big role in the playoffs.

For some players there's an effort gap after the first year; not Ojeleye, who continues to get high marks for his work ethic (from Larranaga in Vegas, for example). He showed evidence in SL of work on his dribble drives and playmaking.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Eddie20 on July 17, 2018, 03:53:51 PM


As far as the moves you note, I did not see him do any of those things well in games

In that case, two pieces of advice:

1) Make the rewind button your best friend;

2) Pay attention to what coaches say, and assume that they know better than you. And one good observation is worth more than all of your judgments!

.
I do not expect him to be part of the rotation.

Maybe the third thing would be to test yourself by making real-world predictions. Bravo!

What coaches say, particularly Stevens, is usually coach speak and should be taken with a giant grain of salt. Unless you can find evidence of Stevens not being complimentary of all his players and criticizing them in the media, then I'll chalk it up as just that.  For example, don't your remember Stevens saying he was Rondo's biggest fan and couldn't wait to coach him?

Here are some other gems...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw3LDbhXw2U

How about you? Would you care to make a minutes prediction for Semi Ojeleye?

Roster as is, with Smart back, approximately 5 mpg.

What's your prediction?

12.

Is that overall or with a fully healthy rotation? I'm assuming it's the latter since you expect him to be part of the rotation. If so, how are you splitting those minutes?

Overall. Check back in April.

I'm not sure what a "fully healthy rotation" would mean, beyond "no one misses any games" - but it doesn't seem likely that you mean that; I think we all know that that won't happen.

What I mean is when our 10 top guys are healthy (starters + Morris, Theis, Baynes, Rozier, Smart) how many minutes does Semi play? If you can't see him playing much when those 10 are available then you agree with me that's he not a rotation guy, but more of a situation guy. Because if he needs guys to be out to get minutes then he's not really part of the rotation.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Eddie20 on July 17, 2018, 04:15:01 PM
Even if everyone is healthy, I think between small injuries and Stevens giving guys days off for rest, you'll see around 30 player games being missed by Horford, Morris, Hayward, Tatum, Brown and Smart. Those minutes for those player games will go to Semi and he could easily average 15-20 minutes per game for those 30 games. And that's with good health. Add that to small regular rotation minutes and games with big minutes due to blowouts and I just can't see Semi averaging less than 10-12 mpg for as many games as he plays.

The real issue is whether or not he merits rotation minutes, and it looks to me as though the coaching staff have already settled that for themselves. They had him in at crunch time frequently last year, and he played a big role in the playoffs.

For some players there's an effort gap after the first year; not Ojeleye, who continues to get high marks for his work ethic (from Larranaga in Vegas, for example). He showed evidence in SL of work on his dribble drives and playmaking.

The first paragraph is not really accurate. He received playing time more out of need than merit. Your "frequently" in crunch time comment doesn't seem true either, but I don't have the time to pull Semi's crunch time minutes to support it.  He didn't play a big role in the playoffs, he played a role in the Bucks series and only the Bucks series. He was basically benched after Game 1 of the Sixers series (probably only played as much as he did because Brown was out) and only received double digit minutes in the following: 11 point loss, 25 point win, and 30 point loss. In the other 11 games he averaged 3 MPG. That's with Hayward, Irving, and Theis out.

I didn't see any improvement in his ballhandling at all.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: mmmmm on July 18, 2018, 07:49:34 AM
Semi was 9th on the team in total minutes last year when Stevens said he was mostly clueless offensively until the end of the year and playoffs. He averaged almost 16 minutes per game. The only player that was out last year that was in front of him in his position was Hayward.

Injuries to and days off for  players in front of him will mean big minutes in some to a bunch of ganes. There will be games that are blowouts where he will get big minutes. There will be games where Stevens will play him big minutes because the guys in front of him are playing awful defense. And there will be games he just gets 5-8 minutes and there will be games he doesn't play.

Semi will get minutes and at year's end he will probably have the 10th - 11th most total minutes and have over 10 minutes per game though I doubt he is in all 82 games. Because he will see DNP-CDs this will help boost his minutes per game.

I just see no way he goes to Maine. He is a NBA role bench player. Stevens rewards players that play defense the way he wants it played. Semi does that. Players that haven't proven they are NBA role players that can play defense like Stevens wants: Yabusele, Wanamaker, Williams, Nader and Bird. Those are your Celtic pkayers that could be spending a bunch of time in Maine. Not Semi.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: Hoopvortex on July 18, 2018, 12:37:45 PM
Even if everyone is healthy, I think between small injuries and Stevens giving guys days off for rest, you'll see around 30 player games being missed by Horford, Morris, Hayward, Tatum, Brown and Smart. Those minutes for those player games will go to Semi and he could easily average 15-20 minutes per game for those 30 games. And that's with good health. Add that to small regular rotation minutes and games with big minutes due to blowouts and I just can't see Semi averaging less than 10-12 mpg for as many games as he plays.

The real issue is whether or not he merits rotation minutes, and it looks to me as though the coaching staff have already settled that for themselves. They had him in at crunch time frequently last year, and he played a big role in the playoffs.

For some players there's an effort gap after the first year; not Ojeleye, who continues to get high marks for his work ethic (from Larranaga in Vegas, for example). He showed evidence in SL of work on his dribble drives and playmaking.

The first paragraph is not really accurate. He received playing time more out of need than merit.

I'm not persuaded - not that you've done any more than state an opinion.

Most of his minutes were as a swing, some at wing. Those wing minutes could easily have been replaced, if he did not merit them, by Smart, Brown, or Tatum. The swing minutes could have been replaced by bigs (like Theis, for example, whom you put ahead of Ojeleye in your depth chart, or Baynes, ditto, who only averaged just over 18 minutes per); or by Morris and Tatum.  It's true that Semi's minutes dipped the second time Morris came back, but by mid January they were back up again, with both players getting substantial minutes. Semi's minutes came back up after the dismal 4-game losing streak.

Your "frequently" in crunch time comment doesn't seem true either, but I don't have the time to pull Semi's crunch time minutes to support it. 

4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points, he played 14% of minutes. Compare, for example, to Aron Baynes, who played 10%.

He didn't play a big role in the playoffs...

Brad acknowledged the team defense on Giannis after the series, in his words, "led by Semi". We could quibble about what "big" means, but is there any debate about the responsibility that the coaching staff gave him in assigning him that role?
Title: Re: Semi to Maine?
Post by: trickybilly on July 18, 2018, 11:29:04 PM
Congrats to Semi getting his money guaranteed.

Going to be super tough to get decent minutes, which he will need if he wants to get another deal next year. Barring trades, about 8 million in space under the taxline will be available..