Author Topic: Kanter's Role on the Celtics  (Read 5290 times)

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Re: Kanter's Role on the Celtics
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2019, 11:34:20 AM »

Offline gift

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Brad's doing his part and making it very clear what it takes to get on the floor. It's up to Kanter to improve defensively.

Re: Kanter's Role on the Celtics
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2019, 11:45:27 AM »

Offline NKY fan

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How about Smart at center?

PG - KW
SG - JB
SF - JT
PF - GH
C - MS

this line up shoots  > 39% from 3 (no one below 37%) which is Warriors like shooting.

Smart did well against Love and will probably be ok against Jokic and Vucevic..

I think Smart can hold his matchups at or below their scoring average with some notable exceptions:

Carl Towns and Embiid and maybe Kanter but he is on our team ....

Can we get away with the 2 guard 3 forward line up against the other 27 teams?

Re: Kanter's Role on the Celtics
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2019, 11:49:46 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Kanter is fine against post ups, even as post ups from a transcendent player like Embiid. He's not good, but he holds his own just fine.

He fails spectacularly in switch and PnR situations. Which Philly isn't equipped as well to attack the C's with compared to other teams. I think he'd serve a big role against Philly, unless Brown surprises me and devises a good way to attack him. (which he could do especially in the playoffs)

Re: Kanter's Role on the Celtics
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2019, 12:00:04 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think Kanter is a specialist at this point.  Also provides some emergency depth.


If you have a matchup where the opponents plays traditional non-shooting bigs and the opponent lacks any attacking guards that would be able to easily punish Kanter in the pick and roll, you can use him for 15-20 minutes as a guy who will get you boards and some buckets inside.


Ideally I'd rather have Theis, Timelord, or Grant out there manning the 5 position instead.

I also think that Poirier is a better fit with the starters.
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Re: Kanter's Role on the Celtics
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2019, 12:15:35 PM »

Offline Valid

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John Karalis on his podcast this morning speculating this very question, TP.

He made the point, and I agree, that as the Celtics work on cementing their defensive identity, Kanter's minutes will be more focused on situational matchups, particularly against the more physical centers like Embiid. He said Brad was pretty upset with Kanter's defense last night, particularly on a play when he didn't cover Baynes on the 3 point line.

The message Kanter needs to hear is simply: You aren't that valuable to the team when you refuse to slide your feet, or cover your men farther than the restricted area with any legitimate effort.

I'm glad Brad pulled him for Grant Williams in the 2nd half.

I've been saying this for weeks now, Kanter is terrible on defense. The C's are like 5th in defensive rating in part because he's been out. His value is low post offense and rebounding but the C's haven't been a disaster rebounding and they have enough offensive options even with Hayward out that Kanters strengths really don't add as much as his weakness take away. He'll still get minutes in the right matchups but Theis, RWIII and Grant all are better defensive options.

He's a good player, on the right team maybe even a starter, not sure its for this team unless circumstances change.
This.  We've known about Kanter's defensive liabilities since prior to the season.  The notion that he could be a "Embiid stopper" is simply uninformed.
No it's not.

Kanter's defensive deficiencies are in guarding pick-and-rolls and stepping out to the three-point line. However, due to his size and strength, his post defense is absolutely fine.

Sure, Embiid can shoot threes, but I would much prefer him try to pull Kanter out to the perimeter and shoot a three than anything else. Embiid shooting a three is a win for the defense.

We literally have no other options to defend Embiid outside of Poirier, who hasn't even gotten consistent minutes. Unless the Celtics make a trade for another big by the deadline (which is easier said than done given the fact that we don't exactly have much salary filler to include), Kanter is our best option to guard bruisers.

Re: Kanter's Role on the Celtics
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2019, 12:30:21 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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His best role would be to be a part of the trade in February 2020.

It's too bad the Celts gave him a player option on the second year of his deal.  Would be much easier to trade him if that were a team option.
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Re: Kanter's Role on the Celtics
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2019, 12:45:03 PM »

Offline LilRip

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Kanter is a change of pace player. When the team needs some offense, he can mix it up inside and get buckets. I don’t know if he’s still injured but he’s really terrible on defense though.
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Re: Kanter's Role on the Celtics
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2019, 01:43:06 PM »

Offline Jiri Welsch

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This.  We've known about Kanter's defensive liabilities since prior to the season.  The notion that he could be a "Embiid stopper" is simply uninformed.

I don't think anyone is saying he is an Embiid stopper. His low post defense against physical bigs is above average. Its his perimeter defense and pick-and-roll defense that is probably the worst in the league.

He can definitely help against Embiid and the very few other low post bruisers in the NBA.
The OP used that term.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I put the term in quotations because I don't see Kanter as someone who can "stop" Embiid. I think he can at least hang with Embiid in the block though because of his big body.

Re: Kanter's Role on the Celtics
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2019, 01:45:51 PM »

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next year with pick 8:  Isiaah Stewart to replace Poirier...unless Poirier blossoms.

Re: Kanter's Role on the Celtics
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2019, 02:18:25 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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His best role would be to be a part of the trade in February 2020.

It's too bad the Celts gave him a player option on the second year of his deal.  Would be much easier to trade him if that were a team option.
I'm sure that's one of the reasons he wanted a player option. Getting stuck in NY for a while was not fun for him.

Re: Kanter's Role on the Celtics
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2019, 03:14:18 PM »

Offline jambr380

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His best role would be to be a part of the trade in February 2020.

It's too bad the Celts gave him a player option on the second year of his deal.  Would be much easier to trade him if that were a team option.
I'm sure that's one of the reasons he wanted a player option. Getting stuck in NY for a while was not fun for him.

Yeah, and it's only for like $5M. I am sure Pho is thinking in terms of a pure salary dump, but he is worth $5M to a lot of teams - even if they are 'stuck' with him for an extra year. I doubt it will hurt his value.

Time will show how important Kanter is to this Cs team. Seems a little early to give up on him - he is a very talented offensive center and is still working to get healthy. If he can really buy into Brad's defensive schemes, then he may be playable on that end.

Re: Kanter's Role on the Celtics
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2019, 03:16:48 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I feel like Kanter's the guy you want coming out with the 2nd unit to give us extra scoring and strength on the boards.

When both teams have their benches out there, Kanter would be one of the best guys on the court usually.

It'd be great for the playoffs if he's that guy who can give us about 20 minutes and average something like 12/8 or 13/9. But for that we'd also need to establish another guy to be our starting center. Maybe that'd through trade, buyout signing, or deciding someone like Timelord can fill that role consistently.
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Re: Kanter's Role on the Celtics
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2019, 04:15:23 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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I feel like Kanter's the guy you want coming out with the 2nd unit to give us extra scoring and strength on the boards.

When both teams have their benches out there, Kanter would be one of the best guys on the court usually.

It'd be great for the playoffs if he's that guy who can give us about 20 minutes and average something like 12/8 or 13/9. But for that we'd also need to establish another guy to be our starting center. Maybe that'd through trade, buyout signing, or deciding someone like Timelord can fill that role consistently.

The fact of the matter is, Theis is currently our starting center.  And that seems to be working pretty well.

I expect that there will be match-ups where Brad will start either TimeLord or Kanter instead, but for the vast majority of teams out there, running Theis out there, surrounded by our wings & guards is going to work just fine to start the vast majority of games.

We aren't losing games right now due to the center spot.   Just because it's not a position of advantage (i.e., no all-star at the 5) doesn't mean it's a position of weakness.

I really don't anticipate Danny is going to be able to pull the trigger and make a trade for any center that is that much better than our 'center-by-committee' approach that it would tangibly "move the needle" on our title chances.   The only way he's going to bring in someone that good is to give up one of our prized starter pieces and the only one who's really tradable right now is Tatum.   Kemba can't be traded until mid winter and realistically Danny isn't going to trade his stud PG for a center only to create a hole in the lineup at PG.   Hayward is injured and further has a player option on his contract.  And Jaylen can't be traded until after this season because of the extension.

So the only way Danny brings in some center who is that much of an increase in talent over Theis/TimeLord/Kanter to make a difference is to trade Tatum.   And that had better be a [dang] impressive trade return for that price!   What center is out there that would be worth trading Tatum and is actually available?  Nobody I am aware of.

It's just not likely to happen.  Folks need to get used to it.
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Re: Kanter's Role on the Celtics
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2019, 04:46:48 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I feel like Kanter's the guy you want coming out with the 2nd unit to give us extra scoring and strength on the boards.

When both teams have their benches out there, Kanter would be one of the best guys on the court usually.

It'd be great for the playoffs if he's that guy who can give us about 20 minutes and average something like 12/8 or 13/9. But for that we'd also need to establish another guy to be our starting center. Maybe that'd through trade, buyout signing, or deciding someone like Timelord can fill that role consistently.
Well except for the 4th quarter against the Suns, for 3-4 games Kanter was the guy playing with Tatum, Wanamaker, Edwards and another deep rotation guy like Green, Semi or Grant to start the 2nd and 4th quarters. Brad has run that unit out with the main responsibility for scoring falling in Tatum's and Kanter's hands, though we have seen that depending on the game, others in that unit have gone off offensively like Semi one game, Wanamaker the next and Carsen the game after that, and don't forget that game Green did too.

Brad seemed to have faith in that unit. He didn't go to it in Phoenix because he road a hot Tatum in the 3rd and had a big lead. So instead, he had Kemba, Brown and Theis start the 4th and close out the game, until the Suns decided to stop trying to win.

I think we could see more of that Tatum, Kanter, Wanamaker, Edwards and Semi/Green/Grant lineup. It looks like one that has worked for Brad over the last 4 games. Don't see why he would go away from it. He only did versus Phoenix because he changed his 3rd quarter substitution pattern that ended up putting the game out of reach.

Re: Kanter's Role on the Celtics
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2019, 06:56:17 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think part of what has made Kanter feel rather superfluous so far is that Brad has been staggering Kemba / Brown / Tatum / Hayward (when healthy) so that there's hardly ever a time when there isn't at least one of those guys on the floor.

It helps as well that Smart is shooting well this year, so he doesn't hurt the offense as much if he's out there in a lineup that lacks scoring options.

If one of the top guys is on the floor, the team is probably more effective having defensively oriented guys who keep the ball moving (e.g. Grant or Timelord).

Kanter's value seems greatest in bench lineups that otherwise lack anybody who can create a decent shot.
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