Chad Ford: Upshaw's off-the-court issues more serious than initially thought

[86MaxwellSmart]

Yeah, well where was Chad Ford before the 1986 Draft---?

[Forza Juventus]

I don't really take what Chad Ford says seriously because he is not very credible. Plus a GM probably leaked this as a smokescreen. We should work him out and speak with him and do our homework and decide for ourselves.

Well that would be a perfect world but we have to make decisions as fans, which means this kinda stuff is all we really can "know".

I obviously meant we as in the team.

[tazzmaniac]

Here's a good article on Upshaw's issues.  Another article I read mentioned that he'd gone into rehab after his Fresno State dismissal.  Alcohol and drug addiction is serious and recovering from it is difficult and often temporary.  I would not touch Upshaw at #16.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/21/8627453/nba-draft-2015-robert-upshaw-washington-sleeper

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Here's a good article on Upshaw's issues.  Another article I read mentioned that he'd gone into rehab after his Fresno State dismissal.  Alcohol and drug addiction is serious and recovering from it is difficult and often temporary.  I would not touch Upshaw at #16.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/21/8627453/nba-draft-2015-robert-upshaw-washington-sleeper

So get a player with very little upside instead, right?

[Granath]

That's the speculation I've heard.

When you get booted from two college teams when you're clearly their best player doesn't bode well. Teams will put up with a lot in college and I guarentee he wouldn't be kicked twice if he was just smoking weed.

At #28, I probably take him. At #16, I'm likely doing something else with the pick.

TP.

You don't get booted for just smoking dope peacefully in your dorm room. Remember he was really booted 3 times since he was sent away by Washington during his transfer year. Everyone would like to see him get his life together, but if this was a substance abuse problem it was a serious one - probably like showing up stoned/drunk to practice type of problem. Or he was booted for being a major pain in the ass type of problem. Or being a locker room cancer type of problem. Or a combination of all of these.

I really get the impression that some here want to believe that he was just peacefully smoking a joint in his room from time to time, but that wouldn't really justify the punishment. It is far more likely it was for something far more serious.

Didn't we do the whole "show up to practice drunk" thing with Vin Baker already?

[Granath]

Here's a good article on Upshaw's issues.  Another article I read mentioned that he'd gone into rehab after his Fresno State dismissal.  Alcohol and drug addiction is serious and recovering from it is difficult and often temporary.  I would not touch Upshaw at #16.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/21/8627453/nba-draft-2015-robert-upshaw-washington-sleeper

So get a player with very little upside instead, right?

There are plenty of guys who have shown upside at 16.

Vucevic was picked 16th in 2011. Kawhi Leonard was picked 15th the same year. Tobias Harris was chosen 19th that year. It happens. Ainge's track record with mid-round picks is pretty good overall so I'm pretty comfortable with him finding a contributor at 16 rather than a risk like Upshaw.

I'd much rather take a flier on him in the mid 20s. It shouldn't be hard to move up from 28 to 22 or 23 if he's around at that point - the 45 and a 2nd next year would easily do it - and that's when you take the gamble on him.

I expect Danny to move up anyway since there's no way the Celtics can actually use all the picks they have over the next two years...not unless they increase the roster size to 25. So either he's moving up from 16 or from 28. If he likes Upshaw, he can get him with the 2nd 1st round pick.

[tazzmaniac]

Here's a good article on Upshaw's issues.  Another article I read mentioned that he'd gone into rehab after his Fresno State dismissal.  Alcohol and drug addiction is serious and recovering from it is difficult and often temporary.  I would not touch Upshaw at #16.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/21/8627453/nba-draft-2015-robert-upshaw-washington-sleeper

So get a player with very little upside instead, right?

I'd prefer to trade up with Charlotte or Miami.  However who says there won't be other players available at #16 that have upside?  I'd probably choose from Oubre, Booker, Lyles, Looney, Turner.  One or two of them should be available at #16. 

As for Upshaw, his upside is probably DeAndre Jordan.  However it is far from certain that he'd reach that level even without his addiction problems.  To be dismissed by two college coaches, should tell you how serious Upshaw's issues are. 

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Here's a good article on Upshaw's issues.  Another article I read mentioned that he'd gone into rehab after his Fresno State dismissal.  Alcohol and drug addiction is serious and recovering from it is difficult and often temporary.  I would not touch Upshaw at #16.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/21/8627453/nba-draft-2015-robert-upshaw-washington-sleeper

So get a player with very little upside instead, right?

I'd prefer to trade up with Charlotte or Miami.  However who says there won't be other players available at #16 that have upside?  I'd probably choose from Oubre, Booker, Lyles, Looney, Turner.  One or two of them should be available at #16. 

As for Upshaw, his upside is probably DeAndre Jordan.  However it is far from certain that he'd reach that level even without his addiction problems.  To be dismissed by two college coaches, should tell you how serious Upshaw's issues are.

Well, of course, if those names (sans Booker and Lyles, we disagree on that) are available, we take them. I'm working on the assumption that those names would be taken, which is highly likely, that he's going to be one if not the only one with star potential. So take him and just work with his red flags to keep him check.

[BDeCosta26]

Here's a good article on Upshaw's issues.  Another article I read mentioned that he'd gone into rehab after his Fresno State dismissal.  Alcohol and drug addiction is serious and recovering from it is difficult and often temporary.  I would not touch Upshaw at #16.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/21/8627453/nba-draft-2015-robert-upshaw-washington-sleeper

So get a player with very little upside instead, right?

Well, if we can't trade up and all that's left at 16 are Portis, Lyles, Looney etc. then yeah. I seriously doubt anybody is taking him in the top 20-25 and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he fell into the 2nd round.

Talented as he may be, Upshaw's red flags are glaring. Two programs in what, two years? And he didn't even get to play a game at one of them, and only made it through half a season at the other. Chances are is probably not just a little weed which can easily be pushed aside. There's just too much of a chance he flames out to reach for him at 16. 28? Maybe. 33? Absolutely. But not at 16. That kid is a HUGE risk, not just cause you could very well get nothing from a decent draft pick, but who knows what he could do to our strong, but still young and impressionable locker room.

[tazzmaniac]

Here's a good article on Upshaw's issues.  Another article I read mentioned that he'd gone into rehab after his Fresno State dismissal.  Alcohol and drug addiction is serious and recovering from it is difficult and often temporary.  I would not touch Upshaw at #16.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/21/8627453/nba-draft-2015-robert-upshaw-washington-sleeper

So get a player with very little upside instead, right?

I'd prefer to trade up with Charlotte or Miami.  However who says there won't be other players available at #16 that have upside?  I'd probably choose from Oubre, Booker, Lyles, Looney, Turner.  One or two of them should be available at #16. 

As for Upshaw, his upside is probably DeAndre Jordan.  However it is far from certain that he'd reach that level even without his addiction problems.  To be dismissed by two college coaches, should tell you how serious Upshaw's issues are.

Well, of course, if those names (sans Booker and Lyles, we disagree on that) are available, we take them. I'm working on the assumption that those names would be taken, which is highly likely, that he's going to be one if not the only one with star potential. So take him and just work with his red flags to keep him check.

I don't think I've seen a recent mock draft where Looney wasn't available at #16.  Lyles mostly played out of position at SF for Kentucky.  In the tournament, Lyles, in contrast to WCS, showed a pretty good post offense when Towns was on the bench.  Booker is the youngest player in the draft.  He's a great shooter, has good size for his position and is a better athlete than I initially thought.  With the (over)emphasis on 3pt shooting, I expect him to have a long NBA career. 

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Here's a good article on Upshaw's issues.  Another article I read mentioned that he'd gone into rehab after his Fresno State dismissal.  Alcohol and drug addiction is serious and recovering from it is difficult and often temporary.  I would not touch Upshaw at #16.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/21/8627453/nba-draft-2015-robert-upshaw-washington-sleeper

So get a player with very little upside instead, right?

I'd prefer to trade up with Charlotte or Miami.  However who says there won't be other players available at #16 that have upside?  I'd probably choose from Oubre, Booker, Lyles, Looney, Turner.  One or two of them should be available at #16. 

As for Upshaw, his upside is probably DeAndre Jordan.  However it is far from certain that he'd reach that level even without his addiction problems.  To be dismissed by two college coaches, should tell you how serious Upshaw's issues are.

Well, of course, if those names (sans Booker and Lyles, we disagree on that) are available, we take them. I'm working on the assumption that those names would be taken, which is highly likely, that he's going to be one if not the only one with star potential. So take him and just work with his red flags to keep him check.

I don't think I've seen a recent mock draft where Looney wasn't available at #16.  Lyles mostly played out of position at SF for Kentucky.  In the tournament, Lyles, in contrast to WCS, showed a pretty good post offense when Towns was on the bench.  Booker is the youngest player in the draft.  He's a great shooter, has good size for his position and is a better athlete than I initially thought.  With the (over)emphasis on 3pt shooting, I expect him to have a long NBA career.

Looney and Lyles are PF's. We have plenty of PF's and that's not including the free agents. We have our own Devin Booker in James Young. We draft him, we might as well give up on Young.

Upshaw has upside, and fills a desperate need. You can't say that with Looney, Lyles or Booker.

[moiso]

Here's a good article on Upshaw's issues.  Another article I read mentioned that he'd gone into rehab after his Fresno State dismissal.  Alcohol and drug addiction is serious and recovering from it is difficult and often temporary.  I would not touch Upshaw at #16.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/21/8627453/nba-draft-2015-robert-upshaw-washington-sleeper

So get a player with very little upside instead, right?

I'd prefer to trade up with Charlotte or Miami.  However who says there won't be other players available at #16 that have upside?  I'd probably choose from Oubre, Booker, Lyles, Looney, Turner.  One or two of them should be available at #16. 

As for Upshaw, his upside is probably DeAndre Jordan.  However it is far from certain that he'd reach that level even without his addiction problems.  To be dismissed by two college coaches, should tell you how serious Upshaw's issues are.

Well, of course, if those names (sans Booker and Lyles, we disagree on that) are available, we take them. I'm working on the assumption that those names would be taken, which is highly likely, that he's going to be one if not the only one with star potential. So take him and just work with his red flags to keep him check.

Like the Rockets did with Royce White?  It doesn't always work.  We need to get more of a guarantee at #16.  We can't risk ending up with nothing.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Here's a good article on Upshaw's issues.  Another article I read mentioned that he'd gone into rehab after his Fresno State dismissal.  Alcohol and drug addiction is serious and recovering from it is difficult and often temporary.  I would not touch Upshaw at #16.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/21/8627453/nba-draft-2015-robert-upshaw-washington-sleeper

So get a player with very little upside instead, right?

I'd prefer to trade up with Charlotte or Miami.  However who says there won't be other players available at #16 that have upside?  I'd probably choose from Oubre, Booker, Lyles, Looney, Turner.  One or two of them should be available at #16. 

As for Upshaw, his upside is probably DeAndre Jordan.  However it is far from certain that he'd reach that level even without his addiction problems.  To be dismissed by two college coaches, should tell you how serious Upshaw's issues are.

Well, of course, if those names (sans Booker and Lyles, we disagree on that) are available, we take them. I'm working on the assumption that those names would be taken, which is highly likely, that he's going to be one if not the only one with star potential. So take him and just work with his red flags to keep him check.

Like the Rockets did with Royce White?  It doesn't always work.  We need to get more of a guarantee at #16.  We can't risk ending up with nothing.

The difference is we have a ton more assets than Houston, so we can afford to swing for the fences here.

I'm not denying the risk, all I'm saying is he could probably be the best prospect by the time we need to pick at #16. At the end of the day, you still need talent to win basketball games. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't. But if it does, we may end up having a Center for the foreseeable future. With a lot of picks in the next 5 years coming in, we could afford to gamble this one.

If this is a top 5 pick, I get it. But at #16, I'd gamble on a star potential player with problems than a guaranteed future role player.

[tazzmaniac]

Here's a good article on Upshaw's issues.  Another article I read mentioned that he'd gone into rehab after his Fresno State dismissal.  Alcohol and drug addiction is serious and recovering from it is difficult and often temporary.  I would not touch Upshaw at #16.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/21/8627453/nba-draft-2015-robert-upshaw-washington-sleeper

So get a player with very little upside instead, right?

I'd prefer to trade up with Charlotte or Miami.  However who says there won't be other players available at #16 that have upside?  I'd probably choose from Oubre, Booker, Lyles, Looney, Turner.  One or two of them should be available at #16. 

As for Upshaw, his upside is probably DeAndre Jordan.  However it is far from certain that he'd reach that level even without his addiction problems.  To be dismissed by two college coaches, should tell you how serious Upshaw's issues are.

Well, of course, if those names (sans Booker and Lyles, we disagree on that) are available, we take them. I'm working on the assumption that those names would be taken, which is highly likely, that he's going to be one if not the only one with star potential. So take him and just work with his red flags to keep him check.

I don't think I've seen a recent mock draft where Looney wasn't available at #16.  Lyles mostly played out of position at SF for Kentucky.  In the tournament, Lyles, in contrast to WCS, showed a pretty good post offense when Towns was on the bench.  Booker is the youngest player in the draft.  He's a great shooter, has good size for his position and is a better athlete than I initially thought.  With the (over)emphasis on 3pt shooting, I expect him to have a long NBA career.

Looney and Lyles are PF's. We have plenty of PF's and that's not including the free agents. We have our own Devin Booker in James Young. We draft him, we might as well give up on Young.

Upshaw has upside, and fills a desperate need. You can't say that with Looney, Lyles or Booker.

Since I'm not high on Sully or KO, I think we have plenty of room to improve our PF situation.  Young could not get any minutes on a mediocre team.  There is no reason to give up on him yet but I wouldn't pencil him in as a future starter let alone star. 

I'm actually not high on any of our starters.  In two years, I hope Smart is the only starter remaining from our current team.  We need across the board talent infusion. 

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Here's a good article on Upshaw's issues.  Another article I read mentioned that he'd gone into rehab after his Fresno State dismissal.  Alcohol and drug addiction is serious and recovering from it is difficult and often temporary.  I would not touch Upshaw at #16.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/5/21/8627453/nba-draft-2015-robert-upshaw-washington-sleeper

So get a player with very little upside instead, right?

I'd prefer to trade up with Charlotte or Miami.  However who says there won't be other players available at #16 that have upside?  I'd probably choose from Oubre, Booker, Lyles, Looney, Turner.  One or two of them should be available at #16. 

As for Upshaw, his upside is probably DeAndre Jordan.  However it is far from certain that he'd reach that level even without his addiction problems.  To be dismissed by two college coaches, should tell you how serious Upshaw's issues are.

Well, of course, if those names (sans Booker and Lyles, we disagree on that) are available, we take them. I'm working on the assumption that those names would be taken, which is highly likely, that he's going to be one if not the only one with star potential. So take him and just work with his red flags to keep him check.

I don't think I've seen a recent mock draft where Looney wasn't available at #16.  Lyles mostly played out of position at SF for Kentucky.  In the tournament, Lyles, in contrast to WCS, showed a pretty good post offense when Towns was on the bench.  Booker is the youngest player in the draft.  He's a great shooter, has good size for his position and is a better athlete than I initially thought.  With the (over)emphasis on 3pt shooting, I expect him to have a long NBA career.

Looney and Lyles are PF's. We have plenty of PF's and that's not including the free agents. We have our own Devin Booker in James Young. We draft him, we might as well give up on Young.

Upshaw has upside, and fills a desperate need. You can't say that with Looney, Lyles or Booker.

Since I'm not high on Sully or KO, I think we have plenty of room to improve our PF situation.  Young could not get any minutes on a mediocre team.  There is no reason to give up on him yet but I wouldn't pencil him in as a future starter let alone star. 

I'm actually not high on any of our starters.  In two years, I hope Smart is the only starter remaining from our current team.  We need across the board talent infusion.

And you have a kid who, according to Chad Ford, outside of the red flags, is a lottery talent. So I don't see why we can't gamble on Upshaw.