Author Topic: Nastia Was Robbed  (Read 20386 times)

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Nastia Was Robbed
« on: August 19, 2008, 10:06:23 AM »

Offline Bankshot

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I watched gymnastics last night and Nastia was the best performer, but the judges gave China's He Kexin a tie she didn't deserve. He performed did an ok job but didn't stick her landing.  Nastia did a slightly better job AND stuck her landing. It was a no brainer that Nastia would get a better score, but she somehow tied He's score even though she performed better.  He jumped up and down like crazy like she already won the gold when they gave Nastia a tie score (there were several athletes yet to even perform their routines).  You should have seen Nastia's face... she was p---ed!  Even to someone like me that doesn't know much about the scoring it was obvious that Nastia was the best performer (even the commentators were shocked at the score and openly said it was wrong). 

Did anyone else see this?  Of course Nastia is saying all the right things now, as she should, but she was noticeable ticked off during the competition.

Nastia was robbed of a gold medal.

http://www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/olympics/articles/2008/08/19/no_win_situation_for_liukin_silver/

On another note: a Swedish wrestler thought he was robbed by judges as well and threw down his bronze medal in protest.

http://www.javno.com/en/sports/clanak.php?id=172063
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Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2008, 10:11:10 AM »

Offline crownsy

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I watched gymnastics last night and Nastia was the best performer, but the judges gave China's He Kexin a tie she didn't deserve. He performed did an ok job but didn't stick her landing.  Nastia did a slightly better job AND stuck her landing. It was a no brainer that Nastia would get a better score, but she somehow tied He's score even though she performed better.  He jumped up and down like crazy like she already won the gold when they gave Nastia a tie score (there were several athletes yet to even perform their routines).  You should have seen Nastia's face... she was ****ed!  Even to someone like me that doesn't know much about the scoring it was obvious that Nastia was the best performer (even the commentators were shocked at the score and openly said it was wrong). 

Did anyone else see this?  Of course Nastia is saying all the right things now, as she should, but she was noticeable ticked off during the competition.

Nastia was robbed of a gold medal.

http://www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/olympics/articles/2008/08/19/no_win_situation_for_liukin_silver/

On another note: a Swedish wrestler thought he was robbed by judges as well and threw down his bronze medal in protest.

http://www.javno.com/en/sports/clanak.php?id=172063

Welcome to the IOC wanting to please the host country. They didn't even check into the passports that "prove" the 12 year old girls for the chinese teams are 16. Did anyone see the scans of those passports that leaked a week or so ago? how amazing is it that all 3 of them were born jan 1, 1992 eh? what an auspicious day for chinese gymnastics!

i mean, if your running off fake passports, at least give them diffrent birthdays.

Nastia was robbed, and its a stupid rule, they should have shared the gold, but im sure she's happy with the much more prestigious all around gold. No one remebers who won individual events post-olympics, the all aroudn generaly gets remebered alot more, both immeditly and come time for the 2012 olympics.
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Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2008, 10:18:40 AM »

Offline yall hate

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She probably should have won the medal, but the thing with gymnastics is they give credit to people who try more difficult routines.  He had a higher starting score just by the fact that she was trying a more difficult routine.  Nastia 'played it safe' and went with an easier routine and as a result she started with a lower score.  It seems like a really stupid scoring system, but it wasnt like there was bias from the judges...

not sure what I was attempting to refer to, but I was clearly wrong. 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 04:48:52 PM by yall hate »

Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2008, 10:19:51 AM »

Offline ChampKind

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I enjoyed this if only for the possibility of seeing Bela Karolyi strangle Bob Costas in a fit of rage.

If the NBA on TNT could create a studio show with Bela and Barkley, my head would explode.
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Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 10:24:56 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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She probably should have won the medal, but the thing with gymnastics is they give credit to people who try more difficult routines.  He had a higher starting score just by the fact that she was trying a more difficult routine.  Nastia 'played it safe' and went with an easier routine and as a result she started with a lower score.  It seems like a really stupid scoring system, but it wasnt like there was bias from the judges...

That's inaccurate.  They both had a starting value of 7.7.  Here's what happened:

Quote
Here's what happened: China's diminutive He Kexin started the bars competition with a risk-filled, six-release routine that was scored 16.725. She had a small step upon landing, and the difficulty of her routine was judged to be 7.7. Her execution score was 9.025.

Next up was Liukin. Fresh off her all-around gold medal and her floor exercise bronze, she was brimming with confidence as she approached her favorite event. (The 16.90 she scored in bars in the women's team finals was the highest score awarded in these Games.) She, too, had a 7.7 start value, and executed five release moves, having a little trouble in one, her pac salto, in which she goes from the high to the low bar executing a flip. Her landing, though, was perfect -- the first time this entire season she's stuck it. Her score: 16.725. Her execution score: 9.025. Same as He's numbers.

Yet, when the tally was flashed on the scoreboard, He was placed first, Liukin second. That's all Liukin noticed initially. Two more gymnasts had finished their routines before Nastia began to study the numbers. She studied them some more. She'd only had five hours sleep the night before -- she's too excited about the prospect of going home as the Olympic all-around champion to sleep -- so she was mentally fried. But pretty soon she nudged her father and coach, Valeri, and pointed out what most of those in the arena already knew: she had the same exact score as He, so why was He listed first?

Valeri didn't know. Very few people in the gymnastics community knew, including ex-Olympians providing expert commentary to listeners and viewers around the world. But as it turned out, the computers had to go to a third tiebreak before determining the winner.

First tiebreak is the start value. Identical.

Second tiebreak is the deductions taken by the middle four judges. That was also the same.

The third tiebreak -- hang onto your hats, for your brains are about to explode --was the average of the three lowest of the four counting judges' deductions. This is where Liukin lost.

Trust me on this: It's a goofy solution. The final tally was arrived at by using the Polish, New Zealand and Brazilian judges' deductions for He, and the Australian, New Zealand and Bulgarian's deductions for Liukin. The Australian judge, Helen Colagiuri, must have been watching another competition. She scored He's execution three-tenths of a point higher than Liukin's, despite the step He took on her dismount. None of the other five judges scored He's execution higher than a tenth above Liukin, and two of the judges -- from Poland and Bulgaria -- had Liukin's execution score two-tenths higher than He's.

In other words, it's all in the eye of the beholder. Either that, or there's some big time politics involved. Either way, the judging in gymnastics at these Olympics has been wildly erratic at best.

Link.

So...  it's a ridiculous scoring system, and it seems like Nastia got screwed by one judge (Australia) who didn't know what she was doing.

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Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 10:26:04 AM »

Offline crownsy

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She probably should have won the medal, but the thing with gymnastics is they give credit to people who try more difficult routines.  He had a higher starting score just by the fact that she was trying a more difficult routine.  Nastia 'played it safe' and went with an easier routine and as a result she started with a lower score.  It seems like a really stupid scoring system, but it wasnt like there was bias from the judges...

I dunno man, it's He's best event, the chinese were already ****ed they lost the all around, and she tripped on her landing. No way did she deserve near perfect execution scores, its why the commentators were destroying the judges live on air, somethign commentators ussualy avoid.

This comes down to polotics, nastia already won the much more prestigeous all around, and thus they gave he a tie she didn't deserve. As noted by both gymnists commintating, based on the two mistakes in the rotuine, he should have been docked at least 2/10ths in exectution, yet three of the judges chose not to acknoledge her dudections in thier scoring. This was a soft score on he's best event to make sure she got a medal in the event. I don't think there was any intent other than to have china score well (thus why the mistakenly made it a tie) from its best preformer, but he's rotine was arguably the 3rd best preformed if you include her miscues correctly.

also, nadia didn't "play it safe" thier rotinues had the same start value. thats why there's so much contriversy over this. in the event of a tie, the first tie breaker is start value, which they tied on. then it goes to exectution, which they tied on. the third tie breaker, and the one he won on, is the total deductions by the 3 judges who scored you the harshest (another spot where he's benifited from gettign a soft score) which nadia lost by a tenth of a point.

EDIT: bah! i speed typed that, spelling errors and all, and roy still beat me with a much mroe concise post explaining it, TP ya fast typer!  ;)
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Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 10:32:02 AM »

Offline zerophase

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How do you rob someone when the rules are used fairly?

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Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008, 10:41:06 AM »

Offline Bankshot

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How do you rob someone when the rules are used fairly?

It wasn't judged fairly, as indicated by Roy Hobbs above.  Nastia clearly performed her routine better and should have received a higher score.  Either that or He should have received a lower score for not performing as well as Nastia. 
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Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008, 10:46:50 AM »

Offline crownsy

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How do you rob someone when the rules are used fairly?

as all three of us noted, and roy in particular, it wasen;t scored failry, 3 judges decided to ignore (in part by 2, fully by the australian judge) 2 faults in He's routine, including her not stickign the landing. If any of those 3 judges had marked her off for the step, nastia would have won.

Nastia fell victim to the time honored tradition of scoring the host countries best athlete at an aparatis "softly" with regards to execution. It's not just a china thing, it's been going on forever.

kind of like home town advantage in boxing scoring or home crowd bias in other sports, the judges are human, and when your dealing with tenths of a point, giving someone any kind of pass can make the diffreance. wheather it comes from getting caught up in the crowd or a slight nod to the host, it stinks.

« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 10:54:51 AM by crownsy »
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Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2008, 11:07:45 AM »

Offline iowa plowboy

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.....And you all are glued to your television sets watching this corruption because??? 

Why is anybody surprised or even alarmed by this?  It happens every 4 years.  In these "competitions" that are "subjective", just follow the money...not the politics, folks...The money. 

What amazes me is how often they happen in olympic "competitions" that aren't subjective.  I think the whole olympic situation is a joke.  But the basketball teams are being smart in ensuring their games aren't left to the officials by winning so overwhelmingly.   
 

Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2008, 11:11:41 AM »

Offline crownsy

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.....And you all are glued to your television sets watching this corruption because??? 

Why is anybody surprised or even alarmed by this?  It happens every 4 years.  In these "competitions" that are "subjective", just follow the money...not the politics, folks...The money. 

What amazes me is how often they happen in olympic "competitions" that aren't subjective.  I think the whole olympic situation is a joke.  But the basketball teams are being smart in ensuring their games aren't left to the officials by winning so overwhelmingly.   
 


I'm not glued, though i do enjoy the pagenetry of the games. Typicaly i flip  on NBC  in the Picture in picture on my TV while i play WoW and sort of half pay attention  if you want an insight into my sad weekdays after work  ;D

and, to be perfectly fair, i still turn into the corruption that is home court officating in the NBA, either for or against  ;)

That said, it does suck she got robbed. i'm not going to pretend im even going to remeber her in 3 months, but still stinks for her. These games, for me, will be remebered for phelps, team USA, and may/walsh, in that order lol.



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Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2008, 11:13:43 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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.....And you all are glued to your television sets watching this corruption because??? 

I wasn't going to watch much this year, but I find myself watching because of the pride and the spirit of the athletes.  Even if the judges are corrupt, the athletes aren't*; they're just doing their best to represent their countries.

Plus, despite the commercialism, the politics, and the money, don't you get any sense of joy or pride out of watching Michael Phelps?  To see somebody so great at his sport, where it's completely objective about who is fastest, is the height of athletics to me.

* With this statement not necessarily applying to all athletes, unfortunately.  I seriously doubt, however, that the Gymnastics teams are doping.

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Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2008, 11:43:49 AM »

Offline zerophase

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i just don't understand why they can't have 2 athletes win. its like the other day when 2 women? or maybe 2 men tied for the silver in a sprinting event. therefore they award no bronze for the event. whatt? i find that just plain stupid.

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Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2008, 11:48:41 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I don't watch much Olympics coverage, but the coverage I do watch tends to be Winter Olympics coverage and anything that is not in the hands of judge's. Gymnastics, figureskating, diving, just about anything that is decided by judges I avoid like the plague. Subjective sports tend to be very corrupt and very controversial.

Now I don't want to hear anything about how in baseball, hockey, basketball, football, and soccer that the referee's judgements are subjective and hence I'm being a hypocrite. Those subjective calls are based on rules of the game and whether the judges perceive that an infraction occured or whether a ball was in a certain location. Mistakes there tend to be those of human error based on what the referees thought they saw happen.

In the sports I am discussing it is the judge's opinion as to just how well someone performed and not whether they adhered to the rulebook that determines the winner. And, I hate those types of sports.

In the Summer Olympics, I hate to say it but only basketball holds my attention. Everything else I find quite boring. But in the Winter Games, I marvel at the skiing(slalom, downhill, and long jump especially), hockey, speed skating, and curling. Those sports appeal to me greatly. I just find so much more drama in them than anything the Summer Games has to offer.

Re: Nastia Was Robbed
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2008, 11:57:10 AM »

Offline ChampKind

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i just don't understand why they can't have 2 athletes win. its like the other day when 2 women? or maybe 2 men tied for the silver in a sprinting event. therefore they award no bronze for the event. whatt? i find that just plain stupid.

Why would they award a bronze there?  Only the top 3 get medals, and no matter how you look at it that last runner was still 4th.
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