CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Spicoli on October 02, 2017, 10:50:22 AM
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With the rise of analytics and the emphasis on efficiency, i think this is ruining the game from an entertainment standpoint. I recently read an article in which the author mentioned that Kyrie should take less midrange pull up shots and more 3 pointers. From an efficiency standpoint this makes sense, but from an entertainment standpoint this is a bad idea. I watch the NBA to be entertained, not to watch both teams jack up 60 three point shots and take an additional 60 free throws. That is the very definition of boring. Jordan made his living in the midrange and he was one of the most entertaining players ever.
Do you find this era of analytics and the 3 point shot to be entertaining?
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With the rise of analytics and the emphasis on efficiency, i think this is ruining the game from an entertainment standpoint. I recently read an article in which the author mentioned that Kyrie should take less midrange pull up shots and more 3 pointers. From an efficiency standpoint this makes sense, but from an entertainment standpoint this is a bad idea. I watch the NBA to be entertained, not to watch both teams jack up 60 three point shots and take an additional 60 free throws. That is the very definition of boring. Jordan made his living in the midrange and he was one of the most entertaining players ever.
Do you find this era of analytics and the 3 point shot to be entertaining?
I personally think the 3 is the most exciting part of the game, so for me it's great.
That being said I think the flop and soft era is extremely boring, which is also an unfortunate era we are stuck in.
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I don't know if it's boring, just different.
I do miss guys who can create their own mid-range shots and true post-up threats, though. There are only two important skills in an NBA offense now and those are taking threes and getting to the hoop/drawing contact. Everything in the world revolves around the PnR.
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It's aesthetically pleasing as long as there is good ball movement and guys aren't just chucking threes for the sake of it.
I do have a fondness for the beautiful mid-range game that seems to be disappearing. But overall I like it.
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I find it boring because everyone plays the exact same way. There is no other way to play if you want to win. In the 80s and 90s teams played different styles and were successful. Now it's pace and space or you lose. They have to go back to the old illegal defense rule so teams can mix it up again.
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Absolutely, yes.
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I generally find it the opposite of boring. The spacing, ball movement, and pace is exceptional. I would much prefer to watch dribble penetration than back to the basket post play (excepting post artists like McHale and Olajuwon). I do agree with the poster who lamented the lack of physicality allowed in the way the game is called today. If you paired the pace and space style but allowed more off-ball contact and didn't call every touch foul a flagrant, then there would be better offensive/defensive balance.
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I don't mind the 3 ball era, as it can be very exciting. Having said that, you would expect more drives to the basket due to less traditional big men. The only thing that makes the game boring for me is the flopping and flaying to sell foul calls. If it was up to me, I would get rid of charges. Force the players to actually defend by using their feet and blocking shots.
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I love the 3 ball era. The stretching of the defense and the decrease in isolation basketball compared to the previous era have brought about better ball movement along with increased 3's which I am all for.
IMO, the current rules and 3 point spacing have brought about better ball movement and player movement which is the type of ball I prefer.
While I do miss great post play, I do not missing bigs getting fouled and taking a ton of free throws. If less post touches are the price I have to pay not to watch bigs clang an endless amount of free throws.
I like that the league is moving towards every player having to be well rounded, defensive specialists who can't shoot, post only bigs are no longer as useful which is a good thing.
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Pros: Less dribbling, neat-looking, creates new planes for passing/teamplay, high pace.
Cons: Redundant, less creative, de-emphasizes decision making, less physical-courage is required to shoot a 3 than is needed to dunk on a 7 foot human.
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I find lack of defense boring. I think making it easier to draw a foul out at the perimeter than under the hoop....thereby drawing bigs further from the hoop....to be sorta silly.
Basically you aren't allowed to defend guards....so everybody has to be a guard now.
I think that's odd.
The same thing happened in football to create video game passing #s. It's not my preference but I can't say I find it boring
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My favorite part of basketball is a heavy ball movement system. Think the 13-14 Spurs or the Larry Bird Celtics. If the ball whips around the perimeter with crisp passing, I'm fine with a wide open 3 or layup. It's the iso, let me shoot over you from 30 feet that I find boring.
The only fun iso plays to me are legit post up scorers. I find beauty in the emphasis on great foot work. The AI pound the rock for 20 dribbles and get fouled after a nutty 20 foot jumper is extremely boring.
Iso should only be used in my opinion if you run through your ball movement sets, and the shot clock is winding down.
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I find lack of defense boring.
Is it just me, or is it impossible to play defense because of the incessant amount of screens being set on the floor? These guys are being run through screen after screen after screen after screen. I know they are well conditioned athletes but if i got hit with 5 screens every single time down the floor i would be gasping for air after the first quarter.
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Just watch a few games from the 80's. You'll see a totally different looking game.
The Centers and Power Forwards mostly play the game trying to avoid being called for 3 seconds. All congested within 12-15 feet in of the basket.
We once had a form of passing called the interior pass...a quick, soft pass from five or six feet away, and mostly taking place in and around the paint. We seldom see this pass anymore.
The game, in general, was slower, the 3 point shot was a bailout shot. Size had much more value than being quick, and athletic.
I like the spacing and pace of the game today, I like the way the floor opens up, and players like IT, and Kyrie etc can create while going to the basket.
That said, I do miss the value of the mid-range game too. I still believe the mid-range game has a place in today's NBA.
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Do you all believe the 3 point line should be pushed back? These guys in the league are just too good at nailing this shot now. I prefered it when only a handful of 'marksmen' in the league were draining it with consistency.
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Do you all believe the 3 point line should be pushed back? These guys in the league are just too good at nailing this shot now. I prefered it when only a handful of 'marksmen' in the league were draining it with consistency.
I wouldn't be opposed to killing off the corner 3. They could just make the arc continue it's path until it goes out of bounds somewhere around where the FT line is.
I find lack of defense boring. I think making it easier to draw a foul out at the perimeter than under the hoop....thereby drawing bigs further from the hoop....to be sorta silly.
Basically you aren't allowed to defend guards....so everybody has to be a guard now.
I think that's odd.
The same thing happened in football to create video game passing #s. It's not my preference but I can't say I find it boring
Yeah, this is my thought, too. TP. All bigs need to play like guards now, but they aren't as quick as guards so they automatically aren't as good. It's almost like the league decided to discriminate against PF/C and change all of the rules to benefit guards (hand-checking, really?) - they don't even require a C to play in the All-Star game anymore. That's how out of fashion they've become.
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It's really a shame because a good center is part of great basketball. You can affect a ton from a center spot
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I'll take today's game over iso-backdown basketball of 20 years ago.
And don't forget that all those 3s aren't merely the result of the length of the line. The allowing of zones helped clog the lane.
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Do you all believe the 3 point line should be pushed back? These guys in the league are just too good at nailing this shot now. I prefered it when only a handful of 'marksmen' in the league were draining it with consistency.
They should make corner threes the same distance as above the break 3s, which would entail slightly widening the court to account for increased athleticism and still have room for corner threes.
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I'll take today's game over iso-backdown basketball of 20 years ago.
And don't forget that all those 3s aren't merely the result of the length of the line. The allowing of zones helped clog the lane.
I admit I hated hack a Shaq, but I loved it when Rodman beat him one on one. Also loved watching guys like Sabonis, and even Bill Wennington moving out to the three line, because they could do that....and then hit the streaking pg running past him.
Great players (and coaches) make great basketball. Not great rules
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I think the 3 ball era has also led to too many players deep in their 30s hanging around. Not good. Kobe Bryant would have had to do 2 years in the G league if he were around today.
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I'm on the fence personally.
Edit: I'm not sure why it posted before I could finish but...
I'm on the fence personally. When the shot works, good, but when the whole team is off it's nauseating to see the team continue to launch 3's. It's gross.
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I like the three ball alot ......but I wouldn't mind seeing more of the old school contact , let the big boys ruff it up more.
Give Drummond something to do.
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I don't think the 3 ball is boring. I like ball movement. What I don't like is the lack of defense. i think the rules are stacked against perimeter defenders, which makes what Smart, AB, Kawhi, TA, etc. do really impressive.
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I think the most "exciting" plays are dribble penetration, and pick and roll plays - which are 90% of NBA plays. Part of the reason for this is that 3 point shooting provides spacing and a bail out for the roll player.
It's probably easier to find talented guards, than it is to find guys like Shaq, or Hakeem Olajuwon. Dream was probably one of my favourite players of all time to watch. Every time he got the ball it was exciting. But who played like that - even in the "big man" era of the late 90s? He was a unique talent.
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I miss this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Td5QRfzj4
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Td5QRfzj4)
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I miss this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Td5QRfzj4
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Td5QRfzj4)
How much defense was played in those days outside of crunch time?
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I find spacing and ball movement a lot more interesting than isolations, post-ups, and a bunch of guys hanging out in the lane, but that's just me.
I suppose it's all about what style of play you find most appealing.
To me, the most fun to watch team I can remember is the 2014 Spurs, followed by the 2010 Suns. The 2011 Mavericks were pretty fun as well.
I like free flowing, relatively fast paced, ball-movement basketball, with a healthy dose of pick and roll.
With all of that said, it does get irritating watching teams that seem to have no interest in creating any kind of shot other than a three pointer. When all you take is three pointers, statistically speaking there are going to be a lot of bricks, even if you end up scoring 120 points.
I would say, though, in terms of teams playing with a more analytical bent, the teams that try to generate 30-40 free throws a game (i.e. Harden Rockets) are a lot more annoying to watch than the teams that jack lots of threes.
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It's probably easier to find talented guards, than it is to find guys like Shaq, or Hakeem Olajuwon.
This is a good point. In a small ball league, there are more opportunities for the most talented (read: offensively skilled and creative) players to get on the floor.
Generally speaking I think a game between two teams that each feature 3-4 skilled shooter/ballhandlers on the floor at any given time is going to be far more entertaining than a game between two teams whose gameplans revolve around a couple bruising post-up behemoths.
With all of that said, I think there is something to the idea of eliminating the corner three, if only because as things stand it is often advantageous for a team to have one or two of their forwards simply hang out in the corner and take spot-up threes. It's sad to realize that a team might be better off with a limited spot-up shooter who stays out of the way than, say, Zach Randolph.
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I'll take today's game over iso-backdown basketball of 20 years ago.
And don't forget that all those 3s aren't merely the result of the length of the line. The allowing of zones helped clog the lane.
Amen to both points. A lot of NBA games became borderline unwatchable for a lot of the 1990s -- the Knicks and Pistons especially.
The other thing about 1990s ball is that slow, beefy guards could make a living with hand checks that looked a lot like wrestling. I'm not disappointed, at all, that we now have lighter, quicker guys who play a more versatile game. Somebody like Isaiah might still have been good in the 1990s, but he'd be a lot less good if the Mark Jacksons of the world could ride him with a hand and stop him changing speeds quickly.
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Game is exciting now because it's easier to make up big margins. The team ahead goes cold and one behind suddenly finds the hot hand and you can get some big swings. There's also better ball movement. That said, the low post game is virtually gone and there are way too many 3's.
Problem is I'm not sure how you change that. Maybe you do remove the corner 3 but that might have the effect of drastically reducing the amount of 3's as not only will they be easier to defend but the corners give you the best chance of making them.
Personally what bugs me about the current era is Steph Curry. He's it's poster boy with his cocky little smirk. I'm not sure he'd have gotten off most teams benches back in the 90's and prior when you could get physical defending him and also close off his space a lot more easily.
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Chuckers. That's what they look like out there 63% of the time.
Don't care for it. Quick pull-up 3's are celebrated, and used to be considered the worst move.
Instead of the post man forcing defenders to sag to help leaving the 3pt line open, they just pull up and chuck. Sometimes they pass it or dribble around the perimeter, but chuck it they will.
It's a shame.
Bring back hand checking.
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I love basketball. Love all sorts of styles. I loved the fast break basketball of many of the 80's teams. I love the pace and space ball of today. Even the half court, center-centric games of the 70's. Never cared for the Riley in NY, clutch and grab stuff of the 90's however.
I think some relaxation of the contact rules and off ball contact would help the game some, but that's the only rules changes I would make.
Listen, the game changes all the time. Its a copycat league until someone gets a generational talent with a coach that can institute a style that makes the current game go away. This style won't last. It will change again.
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I miss this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Td5QRfzj4
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Td5QRfzj4)
How much defense was played in those days outside of crunch time?
It just looks like no one is playing D in those highlights because the Celtics were so good.
But in general the defense was about 10 times more aggressive and physical than it is today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_lvkrXULXE
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Bring back hand checking.
Yeah, and bring back the illegal defense rule too. Also, how the refs call moving screens needs to be tightened up.
It's too easy for guards to get free for open shots, either at the rim or behind the three-point line. There is very little in the way of diversity on offense, teams pretty much run the same play or two over and over again all game.
I found the style of play form the 80's and 90's much more enjoyable. Post play was emphasized far more, and getting open shots required more creative sets. Yes, this style of play did also make isolation offense of greater importance, but that's a minor trade off in my opinion. I liked the tough, physical nature of the basketball from the previous eras.
It's not that I find today's style of play boring, it's just not quite as enjoyable as it used to be. But I realize right now I am in the minority, the younger fans clearly prefer the way the game is played today, so I just accept it for what it is.
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I like isolations so long as they
(1) come out of ball movement. I thought Phil Jackson did a great job with the Triangle offense in keeping Jordan's teammates involved in the offense while still keeping a large amount of iso-opportunities available for Jordan.
(2) the attacker makes quick decisions. Always a big key for iso-players. If they make a quick decision and attack while the defense is still moving, they can be very effective and they are more able to keep their teammates involved. If they hold onto the ball for 6-8 seconds (Melo big offender), their teammates become stagnant. The opposition defense stops moving and loads up on them. They become easier to defend and their teammates are not involved in the action. ]
Phil Jackson's 3 second rule is a good measure for quick / slow decisions. For stopping an offense, allowing an opponent's defense to recover and load up on you.
(3) They don't involve lots of ball-handling. As Future of Stevens said, watching Iverson dribble the ball 20 times and hoist up a shot was awful. Again, quick decisions are imperative for good isolation play. Slow decisions lead to ineffective team basketball.
In the same vein as above -- the over-dribbling - I find a lot of today's basketball hard to watch for the same reason. They have PnRs and a bit more movement but there is still way too much dribbling for my liking. Because of that, I do not enjoy a lot of today's premier scorers.
(4) Needs to happen below the 3 point line. Needs to happen inside a team's defense. Not with 5 men standing in between the attacking iso player and the basket. No point in that. Generates too many bad shots.
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I'll take today's game over iso-backdown basketball of 20 years ago.
And don't forget that all those 3s aren't merely the result of the length of the line. The allowing of zones helped clog the lane.
Amen to both points. A lot of NBA games became borderline unwatchable for a lot of the 1990s -- the Knicks and Pistons especially.
The other thing about 1990s ball is that slow, beefy guards could make a living with hand checks that looked a lot like wrestling. I'm not disappointed, at all, that we now have lighter, quicker guys who play a more versatile game. Somebody like Isaiah might still have been good in the 1990s, but he'd be a lot less good if the Mark Jacksons of the world could ride him with a hand and stop him changing speeds quickly.
Yeah, I find it crazy to hear people want to bring back hand-checking. That was such ugly basketball. And what would be the point? If you want to defend a guy, stay in front of him.
I don't get this preference for guys hitting other guys instead of having players use their skill and agility to get things done.
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It's pretty much impossible to stay in front of your man when you get ran through multiple picks on each possession. The pick and roll has greatly neutralized man on man defense.
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Two changes I'd suggest
1) Eliminate the defensive three second rule. It's easy enough to punish big men for lingering in the paint now, with all of the stretch-bigs in the league.
2) Eliminate offensive goaltending. Suddenly hyperathletic big men regain some of their viability.
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I think the 3 ball era has also led to too many players deep in their 30s hanging around. Not good.
I don't like that either. They have it too easy to score today.
Jamal Crawford had an interview on ESPN a year or two ago and he said there was no way he'd still be in the league scoring 15-18ppg like he is today if they were still playing the same rules as when he came into the league (2000).
I liked him admitting that. I thought that was bang on.
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It's pretty much impossible to stay in front of your man when you get ran through multiple picks on each possession. The pick and roll has greatly neutralized man on man defense.
The change from the illegal defense rule to the defensive three second rule prompted this, though.
Previously, a defender would be called for a violation if they weren't actively 'defending' an opposition player. It didn't matter of they were in the lane or not, you couldn't just stand in the middle of the court, not particularly guarding anyone.
With today's rile, a defenses can basically play zone defense, with the caveat they cannot remain in the lane for more than three seconds unless they are actively defending a player in their immediate vicinity. This single rule change has been the biggest reason there is less space in the center of the half court for big men to operate. This forced to teams to find new ways to clear defenders from the lane, which in turn lead to the increased emphasis on three point shooting, and three point shooting big men, specifically.
Go back to the old illegal defense rule and a lot of this would change.
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It's pretty much impossible to stay in front of your man when you get ran through multiple picks on each possession. The pick and roll has greatly neutralized man on man defense.
Only because players are allowed to set illegal screens. NBA Basketball would be a much better sport to watch (for basketball purists) if moving screens were called as fouls.
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2) Eliminate offensive goaltending. Suddenly hyperathletic big men regain some of their viability.
I might go for the "shot touches the rim and its fair game" rule but it's hard to do it asymmetrically where the defense has no right to touch the ball but the offense does.
I like the 3 ball game overall - it added a new dimension to the game when there are incentives to create shots both closer to and farther away from the rim. But the problem is that it's too easy for most players relative to being worth 50% more points. The real "solution" is to move the line farther away, but that'll never happen - it really can't from the corners.
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2) Eliminate offensive goaltending. Suddenly hyperathletic big men regain some of their viability.
I might go for the "shot touches the rim and its fair game" rule but it's hard to do it asymmetrically where the defense has no right to touch the ball but the offense does.
I like the 3 ball game overall - it added a new dimension to the game when there are incentives to create shots both closer to and farther away from the rim. But the problem is that it's too easy for most players relative to being worth 50% more points. The real "solution" is to move the line farther away, but that'll never happen - it really can't from the corners.
There are a lot of poor three point shooters in the league today who can shoot a good percentage on corner shots (see: Smart, Marcus).
They could keep the line at the same distance but change the arc so that it eliminates the corners (i.e. all 3 pointers are straightaway or above the break).
That would shrink the number of guys who can actually hit a good percentage. But then again, it might just serve to shrink the floor again, since it would no longer be useful to have guys hanging out in the corners and staying out of the way of the action.
I think the offensive goaltend isn't a thing in FIBA games. Doesn't seem to be a problem in that league. But then, there are fewer hyper athletes over 6'10'' overseas.
https://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/29/8513253/clippers-spurs-deandre-jordan-nba-basket-interference-fiba
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Some of the suggestions to change the NBA rules are terrible. Remove the corner 3? Really?
The shooting guard position has the worst performers in the entire nba. The days of ray allen and Reggie miller types are gone. There are only a small handful of elite 3 pt shooters in the entire league. So why the push to make it hard? It makes zero sense
I've not seen any owners or fans outside this board who have any problem with the 3. The rules aren't changing
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Two changes I'd suggest
1) Eliminate the defensive three second rule. It's easy enough to punish big men for lingering in the paint now, with all of the stretch-bigs in the league.
2) Eliminate offensive goaltending. Suddenly hyperathletic big men regain some of their viability.
I've always hated offensive goaltending. I don't really understand why an offensive player can't dunk back a ball that isn't completely off the rim. I suppose it's because once a shot goes up, the offense is no longer solely in possession of the ball, but it just doesn't matter that much (and it is a somewhat rare occurrence anyway); a lot of should-be points get taken off the board for what seems like a technicality.
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Two changes I'd suggest
1) Eliminate the defensive three second rule. It's easy enough to punish big men for lingering in the paint now, with all of the stretch-bigs in the league.
2) Eliminate offensive goaltending. Suddenly hyperathletic big men regain some of their viability.
I've always hated offensive goaltending. I don't really understand why an offensive player can't dunk back a ball that isn't completely off the rim. I suppose it's because once a shot goes up, the offense is no longer solely in possession of the ball, but it just doesn't matter that much (and it is a somewhat rare occurrence anyway); a lot of should-be points get taken off the board for what seems like a technicality.
I've always assumed that the idea behind the rule is that allowing offensive goaltending would give teams too much incentive to simply park a 7'+ guy with super long arms right next to the rim and have him dunk in every missed jumper as soon as it touches the rim.
These days, the prevalence of the three pointer pushes so hard in favor of the perimeter game that I think it might be a good thing to tweak the rules to favor tall guys a little bit more.
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Right now is a great example of what I don't like about this era. Jayson Tatum is playing essentially PF right now in the first minutes of his first preseason game.
It's like....hey did you play PF in high school? Do you have an outside shot? This is the NBA. You're good to go. You can be PF. No problem. Just do what you do.
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Honestly? Yeah, I do.
I don't like today's style of game because I feel it dilutes the game. There are certain aspects of the game such as post skill, midrange game and general toughness that seem horribly lacking in today's game because everybody is just too [dang] obsessed with three point shooting.
If you're a guy who has developed other elite skills but cannot shoot the three (e.g. Jahlil Okafor, Al Jefferson, Dwight Howard, Andrew Drummond, Greg Monroe) then there is effectively no place for you in this game, and I hate that. I grew up in the 90's and while that era had issues of it's own, I feel it was far more balanced. There was a place for guards, a place for bigs, place for rebounders, for post players, for rim protectors, for perimeter defenders, for pure playmakers. It didn't really matter hat your specialty was, if you were great at something, there was a place for you. And that meant there was incentive for different guys to work on and different skill areas.
I can already see the nature of today's era affecting guys coming in. New upcoming bigs are putting less time into learning post skills, and putting more time into working on their ball handling and outside shooting. It's only a matter of time before you find that out of 300 or so NBA players, the number of guys with a skilled post game will be able to be counted on one hand. It almost feels like we are already at that point.
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Any claim you can't be great in the modern game without a 3 is ignoring Wade. Wade is horrible from 3, but an all-time great who played in the modern era with modern rules. DeAndre Jordan is doing quite fine without a jumper.
The players who have a problem are skilled low-post bigs because teams can really clog the lane in the modern game. And teams do it.
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2) Eliminate offensive goaltending. Suddenly hyperathletic big men regain some of their viability.
I might go for the "shot touches the rim and its fair game" rule but it's hard to do it asymmetrically where the defense has no right to touch the ball but the offense does.
I like the 3 ball game overall - it added a new dimension to the game when there are incentives to create shots both closer to and farther away from the rim. But the problem is that it's too easy for most players relative to being worth 50% more points. The real "solution" is to move the line farther away, but that'll never happen - it really can't from the corners.
There are a lot of poor three point shooters in the league today who can shoot a good percentage on corner shots (see: Smart, Marcus).
They could keep the line at the same distance but change the arc so that it eliminates the corners (i.e. all 3 pointers are straightaway or above the break).
That would shrink the number of guys who can actually hit a good percentage. But then again, it might just serve to shrink the floor again, since it would no longer be useful to have guys hanging out in the corners and staying out of the way of the action.
I don't like eliminating the corner 3 entirely - too odd to have angles from which a 3 is impossible - but that does bring me around to one of my pet rule changes that will never happen, widening the court by a few feet.
I think the offensive goaltend isn't a thing in FIBA games. Doesn't seem to be a problem in that league. But then, there are fewer hyper athletes over 6'10'' overseas.
That's the rule I mentioned - I think you can still goaltend in the cylinder (both ways) but once it contacts the rim anyone can touch it. I'd be more open to that change than say DeAndre Jordan just dunking home a dozen teammate jumpers a game.
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The reason I find it boring is because NBA offenses feel so predictable. Lead guard (or wing) drives to the lane thanks to being freed by an illegal screen set by his big man, lead guard draws help defense, kicks out to shooters spotting up in predictable spots on the floor for either a jumper. If defense actually closes in hard on shooter, then he swings it to the next guy open on the perimeter for an open 3. You see this exact play run what feels like 30 times a game from each team.
Also, 3's are a high variance shot, that's where the saying "live by the 3, die by the 3" comes from. If you're playing the high volume 3 point game, you're placing the outcome of the game in luck's hands a little bit unless you're a truly excellent shooting team like GSW. I don't like that.
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It seems to me quite a few traditional centers are suddenly getting some revenge on this league.
Great starts to the season for quite a few bigs
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I have to say I do find it a little boring.
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I don't like the removal of the big man. While I like fast basketball, I like big men who defend and play defense. Many of those guys throughout history have had issues with free throws. I hope they adjust the rules there, but also I hope the NBA looks at other possibilities. I think losing the big man/post game so thoroughly hurts the game and is making some of it samey.
I do think the big man talent pool was lacking for a few years though and is growing again so I will be curious if better play can't balance things out itself some. But as someone who enjoys post play and post defense and things like that, I hope it doesn't go away.
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I don't like the removal of the big man. While I like fast basketball, I like big men who defend and play defense. Many of those guys throughout history have had issues with free throws. I hope they adjust the rules there, but also I hope the NBA looks at other possibilities. I think losing the big man/post game so thoroughly hurts the game and is making some of it samey.
I do think the big man talent pool was lacking for a few years though and is growing again so I will be curious if better play can't balance things out itself some. But as someone who enjoys post play and post defense and things like that, I hope it doesn't go away.
This sums up a lot of my feelings. I don't know that I'd call the 3-ball era "boring," but it certainly saddens me to see guys who have been blessed with being ~7 feet tall and 250+ pounds standing 25 feet from the basket.
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The reason I find it boring is because NBA offenses feel so predictable. Lead guard (or wing) drives to the lane thanks to being freed by an illegal screen set by his big man, lead guard draws help defense, kicks out to shooters spotting up in predictable spots on the floor for either a jumper. If defense actually closes in hard on shooter, then he swings it to the next guy open on the perimeter for an open 3. You see this exact play run what feels like 30 times a game from each team.
Also, 3's are a high variance shot, that's where the saying "live by the 3, die by the 3" comes from. If you're playing the high volume 3 point game, you're placing the outcome of the game in luck's hands a little bit unless you're a truly excellent shooting team like GSW. I don't like that.
The spread pick and roll you describe does get run a ton of times each game, but is it more prevalent than the low post iso plays that dominated for the 90s and much of the 00s? Does it have fewer possible outcomes?
The nice thing about the pick and roll is there are so many ways it can resolve assuming the players involved are skilled.
I feel like we tend to judge the current style of play by the average team and judge previous eras by how the most talented teams played. I imagine there were a lot of really predictable post up teams for much of the fifteen to twenty years preceding the pick and roll era brought on by Steve Nash etc.
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If we could stick an average team of today into the 90's it would blow people's minds. They would be one of the most popular teams in the league easily. We still talk about that RUN TMC team even though they weren't a great team.
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I love basketball but feel like we need a middle ground between the current college game and the game. The college game feels to bogged down, ugly and lacking in skill while the NBA is like watching an elite boxer to Tae-bo ( speed and skill with out the pop). The little I have watch of elite euro league basketball seems to be in the middle ground. I like to see elite passing and shot making placed in a well run offense that features BOTH post play and perimeter shooting. On defense tick tack fouls are ruining the NBA game. I do not want to see the 90s return in terms of physicality but the league needs to continue to do something about the elite perimeter scorers playing for the foul calls.
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I'm beginning to think it's not so much the traditional big that is going away. It's the mediocre big. In some cases certain mediocre bigs are being replaced by different mediocre bigs. Like instead of Sully the league has KO.
Or maybe another example is Tyler Zeller gets no play time at all (till someone gets hurt). Because you can always find a faster big forward that can shoot better, rebound about the same and play defense about the same
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I like Brad Steven's era of basketball. Fast paced, lots of ball movement, great spacing and get back on D. Guys playing above their skill level is a ton of fun to watch.
Maybe I'm not old enough to appreciate the grind of post play. Although I think others agree as basketball is growing during this 3 ball explosion.
I'm curious what the age group is of the people finding current NBA boring.
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I am a weird guy-I'm in my mid teens yet I prefer the old grind it out style in the post or the 60s Celtics fastbreak/70s Celtics run ans gun. However this era is still fun to watch although I do not like how people are calling arm bars that ride on players' hips as "handchecks", a handcheck is literally putting a hand to block your way while you're driving, not riding on your hip with an arm bar.
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not a big fan of the current game. I appreciate good post play. I miss watching Kevin Mchale's mastery of post moves. much more enjoyable than watching a bunch of guards chuck 3's all game.
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I'd like to see more skill...passing, shooting mid-range shots, dribbling. The 3 entices guys to take bad shots and I get tired of watching players that can't shoot them, jack them up constantly.
It's a lazy way to play a beautiful team game.
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Nope. I found the 1990s Knicks/Pistons style of play totally unwatchable. Easily the worst era of basketball. Iso-ball with bigs, pound-pound-pound the ball for 20 seconds, skilled players on the perimeter neutralized by rules that allowed slow beefy defenders to ride them.
They could make things a little better by tightening up the officiating on post defenders; give the bigs a little more opportunity on offense. But the good teams don't just jack up 3s. I don't see how you could watch the Warriors or (when they're on) the Celtics and think that's boring, no-skill offense. Did the Wizards-Celtics series last year bore you, or the Finals? If so, I don't think basketball is the game for you.
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There are middle grounds between complete space and pace basketball and the brutally slow early 2000's type era basketball guys.
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I can't shake the feeling Antoine Walker would be an all- NBA forward in this league, and might even play center, and that concept terrifies me.
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Nope. I found the 1990s Knicks/Pistons style of play totally unwatchable. Easily the worst era of basketball. Iso-ball with bigs, pound-pound-pound the ball for 20 seconds, skilled players on the perimeter neutralized by rules that allowed slow beefy defenders to ride them.
They could make things a little better by tightening up the officiating on post defenders; give the bigs a little more opportunity on offense. But the good teams don't just jack up 3s. I don't see how you could watch the Warriors or (when they're on) the Celtics and think that's boring, no-skill offense. Did the Wizards-Celtics series last year bore you, or the Finals? If so, I don't think basketball is the game for you.
90'S Basketball was basically a public mugging. awful basketball
As for what's not boring -- I dislike the current NBA product to the point that I don't care to watch any game that's not a Celtics game. At least back in the 80's, with a bigger variety of team offensive styles, games between non-Celtic teams could be interesting. I just don't care for the current product they put out.
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i guess if Curry is on your team you luv it .
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Nope. I found the 1990s Knicks/Pistons style of play totally unwatchable. Easily the worst era of basketball. Iso-ball with bigs, pound-pound-pound the ball for 20 seconds, skilled players on the perimeter neutralized by rules that allowed slow beefy defenders to ride them.
Ugh, remember Mark Jackson posting up around the 3 pt line and just using his butt to push closer to the rim for 15 seconds straight? Or those old Cleveland teams with Fat Shawn Kemp just walking the ball up and dragging out the shot clock every possession to try and win 83-78?
I wouldn't mind seeing more skilled post play or a less dominant top contender, but the product is so, so much better than it was for most of my life.
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I'm beginning to think it's not so much the traditional big that is going away. It's the mediocre big. In some cases certain mediocre bigs are being replaced by different mediocre bigs. Like instead of Sully the league has KO.
I think there is something to this.
It seems kind of wrong that a player like Anthony Tolliver -- basically just a spot up specialist -- can hang around in the league forever, while physically gifted and skilled power forwards without a 3 point shot regularly fall out of rotations, or out of the league entirely.
In a lot of ways, a team is probably better off with somebody like Mirza Teletovic simply hanging out in the corner, instead of trying to make it work with somebody like Thaddeus Young or Derrick Favors.
It feels like there ought to be a place in the league for Kenneth Faried to play more than 20 minutes for a bad team, but right now, there really isn't.
That does seem like a problem. Ideally the game would favor the most talented players seeing the most floor time, but the power forward position seems to have reached a point where if you can't have an athletic skilled swing man (e.g. Jayson Tatum) or an all-around big man (e.g. Anthony Davis), you'd be better off just parking a 6'8-6'10'' spot up shooter at that spot who won't totally kill you defensively.
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The Nets attempted 46 three point attempts last night. Houston attempts 42 three pointers a game. They are strictly free throws and 3 pointers. It's an "efficient" strategy, but not a fun one to watch. I hate watching Houston play.
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The Nets attempted 46 three point attempts last night. Houston attempts 42 three pointers a game. They are strictly free throws and 3 pointers. It's an "efficient" strategy, but not a fun one to watch. I hate watching Houston play.
That's fair, but was it necessarily better in the past?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPtznMjFRG4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWTzbxERzTg
When I watch old clips I mostly notice the greater prevalence of 1-on-1 plays, whether it's driving by the guard or a post-up by a big or wing. In a lot of the players, only 1-2 players on each team is really involved at any given time.
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In general yes without a doubt. Now watching the great ball movement on the warriors team AND the fact that curry doesn't know the translation of range make their offense fun to watch. But most teams the drive and kick for guys standing outside the arc is boring, horrible and completely uninteresting.
I love the passing and vision of basketball. The cut by horford other night and irvings pass were wonderful. I want to watch guys like rondo, Stockton, bird, magic insert the names. Also I like boxing out and rebounding and even playing defense.
Ugh showing my age. Hate the lack of effort on the basic things and the lackluster offense in MOST of today's game.
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I’ll take the current 3 point trend over the mid 2000s style of slash, gash, and gasp if you don’t get to shoot free throws.
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I’ll take the current 3 point trend over the mid 2000s style of slash, gash, and gasp if you don’t get to shoot free throws.
I take it you're not a fan of the low % long two point shot?
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Basketball is pretty great right now, the only issue is the feeling that the Warriors winning is inevitable.
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Basketball is pretty great right now, the only issue is the feeling that the Warriors winning is inevitable.
I think that's a huge issue.
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I’ll take the current 3 point trend over the mid 2000s style of slash, gash, and gasp if you don’t get to shoot free throws.
I take it you're not a fan of the low % long two point shot?
The % depends on who's shooting from where and whether they're open. KG and DJ were both automatic from their respective spots 20ft out.
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Cmon DJ was only automatic if the game had 5 minutes to go.
Love him but for some reason he was only a good shooter at end of game.
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The reason I find it boring is because NBA offenses feel so predictable. Lead guard (or wing) drives to the lane thanks to being freed by an illegal screen set by his big man, lead guard draws help defense, kicks out to shooters spotting up in predictable spots on the floor for either a jumper. If defense actually closes in hard on shooter, then he swings it to the next guy open on the perimeter for an open 3. You see this exact play run what feels like 30 times a game from each team.
Also, 3's are a high variance shot, that's where the saying "live by the 3, die by the 3" comes from. If you're playing the high volume 3 point game, you're placing the outcome of the game in luck's hands a little bit unless you're a truly excellent shooting team like GSW. I don't like that.
On the other hand it makes guys like Smart more valuable and I don't blame people for liking that
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You know...back in the day when KG would make threes it was amazing and special. Thon Maker just hit a three. But has he gotten bigger? Has he gotten stronger? Whatever. I don't want to talk about it.
If Marcus Camby was coming out of college today he just would never have gotten blocks.
If you took Tim Duncan from Wake Forest and jumped into the time machine to today he'd be like "Wait. What's going on? I don't understand. What do I do? I stay here near the paint and dare him to shoot right?"
Sheed.....Sheed started his career great and became a cancer because of threes. Why play hard when you can just jack up threes?
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Cmon DJ was only automatic if the game had 5 minutes to go.
Love him but for some reason he was only a good shooter at end of game.
Top of the key. His defender often went to double Birdie.
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Here's another weird thing about this era.......multiple multiple players in this league shooting threes better than free throws.
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The 3P shot has it's place. Especially if it's used by players who can shoot from a distance. Trouble is, there are a lot of players these days taking 3P shots that can't shoot outside. And too often I see guys shooting a 3 with nobody near the basket, and without a single pass being thrown. That makes the game boring and inefficient.
Sharpshooters like Bird and Ainge used to take 3s all the time in the old days. But those teams still adhered to the old Celtics line of passing for the best shot. The line that has worked for Pop and other successful coaches. You hate to see coaches become overly dependent on the 3. It has it's place, but some players shouldn't be taking them.
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No - it is the best era so far!
The more skill and athleticism the better.
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Cmon DJ was only automatic if the game had 5 minutes to go.
Love him but for some reason he was only a good shooter at end of game.
hum......Smart maybe ?
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Here's another weird thing about this era.......multiple multiple players in this league shooting threes better than free throws.
I can't think of an example of this. Who are you thinking of?
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First possession of OT Anthony Davis swishes a three. The Celts take it the other way and Al Horford makes a three.
That's what's wrong with this era.
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It's the style of offense that is boring. The 80's also had the 3-point line, but it was used sparingly. The offenses focused on players moving, the ball moving via the pass and not the dribble and many of the sets went thru the post.
Now, there is very little back-to-the-basket scoring and offenses are started and run by the dribble. Most sets start with a ball screen and the possession is played on the edge of a foul or a turnover. There are two dominant shots - the 3-pointer and the dunk.
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It’s destroying youth basketball.
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Do you all believe the 3 point line should be pushed back? These guys in the league are just too good at nailing this shot now. I prefered it when only a handful of 'marksmen' in the league were draining it with consistency.
I believe the court should be expanded. It's too narrow for today's players.
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Do you all believe the 3 point line should be pushed back? These guys in the league are just too good at nailing this shot now. I prefered it when only a handful of 'marksmen' in the league were draining it with consistency.
I believe the court should be expanded. It's too narrow for today's players.
I don't understand why the distance for 3-pointers isn't the same all the way around the arc.
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Do you all believe the 3 point line should be pushed back? These guys in the league are just too good at nailing this shot now. I prefered it when only a handful of 'marksmen' in the league were draining it with consistency.
I believe the court should be expanded. It's too narrow for today's players.
I don't understand why the distance for 3-pointers isn't the same all the way around the arc.
It's because the court is narrow. Otherwise, the 3 pt line would be brought in.
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I don't know if it's boring, just different.
I do miss guys who can create their own mid-range shots and true post-up threats, though. There are only two important skills in an NBA offense now and those are taking threes and getting to the hoop/drawing contact. Everything in the world revolves around the PnR.
NBA has been a PnR league forever. It's just that a lot of fans are used to watching college ball where it is not such a dominant feature of the game.
As for the 3 point era. My dad loves it because he has been in love with the 3 point shot forever. Imagine if Bird in his prime was playing in this era? He could put up 40 points a game.
Trueshot % and analytics aren't wrong. The 2 point midrange shot is comparatively inefficient because it yields almost as high a chance of missing but lesser reward than the well set up 3 point shot.
Sometimes when you just need a bucket, there's nothing wrong with the 2 point shot. But look at Jayson Tatum. His questionmark as a player was -- could he adapt to the modern game and stretch out his 2 to a 3 point shot. Because he has successfully done so, it makes him the best rookie in his draft class and much more valuable player to us overall. If Taytum was shooting 30% from 3 instead of 47% I think our outlook on him would be much less rosy even if he was still making clutch 2 point shots from midrange.
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It's the style of offense that is boring. The 80's also had the 3-point line, but it was used sparingly. The offenses focused on players moving, the ball moving via the pass and not the dribble and many of the sets went thru the post.
Now, there is very little back-to-the-basket scoring and offenses are started and run by the dribble. Most sets start with a ball screen and the possession is played on the edge of a foul or a turnover. There are two dominant shots - the 3-pointer and the dunk.
Agreed. I hate it. The amount of time the ball spends 25 feet from the basket, the over-dribbling, the offense revolving around dribble penetration all the time.
It is the hand-checking rule changes.
It has made dribble penetration the most efficient type of offense in the league. So it doesn't make sense for coaches to run their teams differently. It's the rule changes that have created this imbalance in the game. And the 3 point shot increase is a direct consequence of this dribble penetration. It is how to best increase efficiency of the dribble penetration threat. To spread the floor out and make help defense too hard for defenses. This creates teams getting open looks from 3 and needing a big increase in amount of 3s taken every night.
I find it ugly to watch. I am watching less and less NBA over last few years.
It is not one team or an individual style. It is the whole league. They all see the imbalance in the rules and how best to exploit them. That dribble penetration is by far the most efficient type of offense and the offense they must direct the team to play. And that the 3 point shot is imperative to enabling that threat. Every team plays the same style now. Because this is the best way to take advantage of the rules.
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Watching this game I'm starting to get terrified someday I'm gonna hear "Grandpa Grandpa. Tell me about the NBA back when you were young a million years ago."
"Well. Back then we had slashers, penetrators, and dunkers. Guys like Iverson and Michael Jordan, and then Vince Carter and his cousin TMac and Kobe and Paul Pierce and they could get to the hoop or drive and dish or pull up for a mid range jumper. You could try to defend them with very athletic wings like Scottie Pippen or you could go to your big men and try to clog things and draw fouls and double teams. Guys like Shaq, and KG, and Duncan. And every once in a while you had a hybrid guy like Dirk or something. And sometimes you had playmakers to set up picks and rolls. Guys like the Mailman and Stockton or Steve Nash or J Kidd."
Then I'll hear "Wait a minute. You mean they didn't just all stand around taking threes?" and I'll say "Well there was this one guy Antoine Walker, but nobody thought that would ever really happen. That was before the rule changes where you couldn't guard people any more. Before the dark times."
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Marcus Smart trying desperately to hit threes constantly is an excellent symptom of everything that is wrong with this league right now.
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It's aggravating that players will run to the 3 point line on a fast break instead of going to the rim. These "nerd numbers" that have taken over basketball make it so teams would rather shoot 40+ 3's instead of just going with the flow.
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There is a whole era of players that pulling up for a three is pretty much all they know. Just now is a great example. Tatum is at the top with 6 seconds to go. No thought whatsoever to driving to get the foul or to drive/dish or to drive pull-up. None. Just jack it up.
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This is why Clint Cappella and Jarret Allen can thrive in this league. Those guys would be nothing in years past. Nowadays who will you guard them with? A small forward?
This is why Jaylen Brown will be a great player. He will actually have a diverse game and tons of players will just not understand how he's doing it.
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The 3P shot has its place, but it's overdone today. You have guys bombing 3s who shouldn't be--they can't shoot 33%.
I don't like to see a guy shooting a 3 with nobody near the basket to rebound. And you see that often. Passing for an open 3--especially that easy corner shot Bird used to love--is the way it should be done. The Celtics way back to the Auerbach era has been to pass for the best shot--and the 3 should not change that.
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Watching this game I'm starting to get terrified someday I'm gonna hear "Grandpa Grandpa. Tell me about the NBA back when you were young a million years ago."
"Well. Back then we had slashers, penetrators, and dunkers. Guys like Iverson and Michael Jordan, and then Vince Carter and his cousin TMac and Kobe and Paul Pierce and they could get to the hoop or drive and dish or pull up for a mid range jumper. You could try to defend them with very athletic wings like Scottie Pippen or you could go to your big men and try to clog things and draw fouls and double teams. Guys like Shaq, and KG, and Duncan. And every once in a while you had a hybrid guy like Dirk or something. And sometimes you had playmakers to set up picks and rolls. Guys like the Mailman and Stockton or Steve Nash or J Kidd."
Then I'll hear "Wait a minute. You mean they didn't just all stand around taking threes?" and I'll say "Well there was this one guy Antoine Walker, but nobody thought that would ever really happen. That was before the rule changes where you couldn't guard people any more. Before the dark times."
Nobody slashes and dunks anymore? What NBA are you watching?
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I have no issue with the three point shot, in and of itself. What I do lament, is that it's not a more difficult shot. It shouldn't be a shot that is so easy the majority of the players in the league are capable of making it at the rate they do.
It's a shame that players like Marc Gasol have had to expand their game to include it or get phased out of the game. It's a waste of his much greater talents.
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Watching this game I'm starting to get terrified someday I'm gonna hear "Grandpa Grandpa. Tell me about the NBA back when you were young a million years ago."
"Well. Back then we had slashers, penetrators, and dunkers. Guys like Iverson and Michael Jordan, and then Vince Carter and his cousin TMac and Kobe and Paul Pierce and they could get to the hoop or drive and dish or pull up for a mid range jumper. You could try to defend them with very athletic wings like Scottie Pippen or you could go to your big men and try to clog things and draw fouls and double teams. Guys like Shaq, and KG, and Duncan. And every once in a while you had a hybrid guy like Dirk or something. And sometimes you had playmakers to set up picks and rolls. Guys like the Mailman and Stockton or Steve Nash or J Kidd."
Then I'll hear "Wait a minute. You mean they didn't just all stand around taking threes?" and I'll say "Well there was this one guy Antoine Walker, but nobody thought that would ever really happen. That was before the rule changes where you couldn't guard people any more. Before the dark times."
Nobody slashes and dunks anymore? What NBA are you watching?
I also find this to be inaccurate. I don't see people standing around taking threes. I see them moving off-ball through screens to get open. I also see stars like Harden create separation to launch a 3. Still there's movement.
No driving? What about Lebron, Harden, Giannis, Westbrook, Irving, Derozan, Lillard, George, Simmons, etc, etc
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The teams that win the championships are great 3 point shooting teams, both in volume and percentage. Obviously it works. Obviously the math geeks were right.
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There is a whole era of players that pulling up for a three is pretty much all they know. Just now is a great example. Tatum is at the top with 6 seconds to go. No thought whatsoever to driving to get the foul or to drive/dish or to drive pull-up. None. Just jack it up.
I guess I'm wondering why Tatum is wrong in this example. At this stage in his career, a Tatum iso is often going to fail - especially if it is rushed at the end of a play where the defense didn't break down. When he has a lane to the basket, I typically see him take it; when the lane isn't there, with the shot clock winding down, shouldn't he shoot the 3?
The fact that he's often hanging out at the line also makes sense to me. A good offense needs to force defenses to make difficult choices until they make a mistake and create a great opportunity. Some players are in motion, coming off screens, forcing the defense to guard the player moving toward the basket or the player stationed at the 3-point line. Having Tatum out there at the 3-point line a lot of the time makes good use of his skillset *and* fits into a scheme that makes things very hard for the defense. When he gets a closeout he can attack, or when he can execute a cut, he does that too. But he's still growing into his game.
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It's the style of offense that is boring. The 80's also had the 3-point line, but it was used sparingly. The offenses focused on players moving, the ball moving via the pass and not the dribble and many of the sets went thru the post.
Now, there is very little back-to-the-basket scoring and offenses are started and run by the dribble. Most sets start with a ball screen and the possession is played on the edge of a foul or a turnover. There are two dominant shots - the 3-pointer and the dunk.
Agreed. I hate it. The amount of time the ball spends 25 feet from the basket, the over-dribbling, the offense revolving around dribble penetration all the time.
It is the hand-checking rule changes.
I find it ugly to watch. I am watching less and less NBA over last few years.
Everybody's got their own taste; I get the appeal of great post play and passing. But I didn't like the handcheck era. Too many great players being neutralized by much less skilled players who'd grab and hold them. The 1990s New York Knicks were probably the most unwatchable team in my lifetime. Terrible, ugly basketball. I don't want to watch, say, Stanley Johnson turn Kyrie into an ordinary player by letting him deliver a forearm every time Kyrie tries crossing him up. That's not better basketball.
It wasn't only hand check that ruined the 1990s. It was probably even worse that people figured out the defensive help rules made interior defense impossible against really huge bigs, which slowed the game to a crawl. Dump the ball into the post, have four players watch the big pound, pound, pound the ball until he got close enough for a hook shot or a dunk. Yawn. It slowed the game way, way down. In the mid-1980s, when the league still had a decent balance between inside and outside play, the league average was about 100 possessions/game. In the mid-1990s the game slowed to about 90 possessions/game.
I'd like to see the interior defense rules tightened a little to help the big guys score more efficiently, but basically the product seems pretty good to me. Possibly a bigger court or moving the line back 6 inches. But the spacing and pace of the game makes for a lot of variability in player and team styles.
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I don't mind it for the NBA.
It sucks for pickup, though. Every kid & their mom thinking they're Steph Curry & chucking shots from 25-30 feet out.
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Watching this game I'm starting to get terrified someday I'm gonna hear "Grandpa Grandpa. Tell me about the NBA back when you were young a million years ago."
"Well. Back then we had slashers, penetrators, and dunkers. Guys like Iverson and Michael Jordan, and then Vince Carter and his cousin TMac and Kobe and Paul Pierce and they could get to the hoop or drive and dish or pull up for a mid range jumper. You could try to defend them with very athletic wings like Scottie Pippen or you could go to your big men and try to clog things and draw fouls and double teams. Guys like Shaq, and KG, and Duncan. And every once in a while you had a hybrid guy like Dirk or something. And sometimes you had playmakers to set up picks and rolls. Guys like the Mailman and Stockton or Steve Nash or J Kidd."
Then I'll hear "Wait a minute. You mean they didn't just all stand around taking threes?" and I'll say "Well there was this one guy Antoine Walker, but nobody thought that would ever really happen. That was before the rule changes where you couldn't guard people any more. Before the dark times."
Nobody slashes and dunks anymore? What NBA are you watching?
I'm watching the one where Marcus Smart and Karl Anthony Townes are outside shooters.
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They should make a rule change... The three ball is only applicable in the last 4 min. of each qtr. This discourages teams from jacking up ill advice shots from beyond the arch. At least for the first 8 min. Then come fourth qtr it can be used anytime.. An exception is when ateam is up by atleast 10 over the other then a three point shot at anytime of the game is counted for the team that is down to encourage rallying. I believe these changes will make the game closer in such that even lower tier teams have a chance to beat top teams.
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Watching this game I'm starting to get terrified someday I'm gonna hear "Grandpa Grandpa. Tell me about the NBA back when you were young a million years ago."
"Well. Back then we had slashers, penetrators, and dunkers. Guys like Iverson and Michael Jordan, and then Vince Carter and his cousin TMac and Kobe and Paul Pierce and they could get to the hoop or drive and dish or pull up for a mid range jumper. You could try to defend them with very athletic wings like Scottie Pippen or you could go to your big men and try to clog things and draw fouls and double teams. Guys like Shaq, and KG, and Duncan. And every once in a while you had a hybrid guy like Dirk or something. And sometimes you had playmakers to set up picks and rolls. Guys like the Mailman and Stockton or Steve Nash or J Kidd."
Then I'll hear "Wait a minute. You mean they didn't just all stand around taking threes?" and I'll say "Well there was this one guy Antoine Walker, but nobody thought that would ever really happen. That was before the rule changes where you couldn't guard people any more. Before the dark times."
Nobody slashes and dunks anymore? What NBA are you watching?
I'm watching the one where Marcus Smart and Karl Anthony Townes are outside shooters.
Karl anthony Towns taking three 3's a game means nobody dunks anymore?
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So in the 4th quarter tonight....Oladipo dribbled into the middle and kicked out for Myles Turner who drained a three. Then Smart went and drained a three. Then Myles Turner drained another three and said "hush" to the crowd.
And that's everything that is wrong with this league.
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I don't mind it for the NBA.
It sucks for pickup, though. Every kid & their mom thinking they're Steph Curry & chucking shots from 25-30 feet out.
It's God-Awful to play pick-up ball nowadays! There have always been less than impressive players taking too many 3s when they should be passing the ball around, but now everybody does it. Even worse is the person who dribbles the ball over half-court is usually the one who takes the shot. Getting an offensive rebound and put-back is almost considered a failure of a possession.
On a related note, I HATE 2s and 1s in pick-up. The group I played with for years always only played 1s only, but having 3s be worth twice as much in pick-up has only made this 'era' of basketball that much worse.
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I don't mind it for the NBA.
It sucks for pickup, though. Every kid & their mom thinking they're Steph Curry & chucking shots from 25-30 feet out.
It's God-Awful to play pick-up ball nowadays! There have always been less than impressive players taking too many 3s when they should be passing the ball around, but now everybody does it. Even worse is the person who dribbles the ball over half-court is usually the one who takes the shot. Getting an offensive rebound and put-back is almost considered a failure of a possession.
On a related note, I HATE 2s and 1s in pick-up. The group I played with for years always only played 1s only, but having 3s be worth twice as much in pick-up has only made this 'era' of basketball that much worse.
I haven't played pickup basketball in quite a while, but this was something I always thought was stupid. Like I'd literally ask people if they understood math at all.
But being someone that could actually make quite a lot of threes I never complained. Usually by the 2nd or 3rd game people were demanding to play by normal scoring or just have all shots count as 1 point.