Celtics end of bench in need of a face lift.

[nickagneta]

The season is a quarter over and I think I have seen, and not seen, enough of the Celtics bench to say that I think it time for Danny to go to work and give the end of the bench a face left. A little nip tuck and cut. A change over.

Let me say first, I am not talking about Rasheed Wallace, Marquis Daniels or Glen, "Don't call him Big Baby" Davis. I think all should stay this year and beyond. But as far as the rest is concerned, it's time for a make over. Second, let me also say that in the cases of Sheldon Williams and Eddie House, I expect both to be here for the duration of the season and post season, though, in the case of House, if moving him gets us an upgrade at the backup point, trade him.


Eddie House - I love Eddie but I think its pretty obvious what his deficiencies are and that they can be easily exploited. He can be beat off the dribble easily by quick guards. He can be pressured into turnovers if he tries to bring the ball up and will pick up his dribble far from the basket in the front court if given enough pressure. He can't run and offense and be a scorer at the same time. He's a one horse trick pony on offense and if he's not hitting his three pointers, he's pretty useless to this team.

JR Giddens - I wanted to remain open to thinking this kid could be something but seeing him more semi-regularly, he really is not an NBA player. He really has nothing that he has shown that makes me believe that he can help this team this year or any other. He's erratic, looks lost on defense in the team schemes. He's shown nothing offensively and looks to be a mistake as a first round pick.

Bill Walker - He can dunk. Yay!! He's turned out so bad that he fell behind JR Giddens on the depth chart. Really, for me. Nuff said.

Lester Hudson - I didn't think he would even make the team. And, maybe he shouldn't have. When he comes in, he appears to be fast and strong and have a good handle on the dribble. But, to me, its pretty obvious hes a scorer that doesn't have the distributor set of mind. He over dribbles, often into the worst places. He doesn't seem to have good floor vision or know where the open man is. And he seems to be hesitant, over thinking everything as he fights to overcome what every instinct in his body tells him, shoot the ball!!!

Brian Scalabrine - Scal has served his purpose in Boston. He's been a great 13th-15th man, he's been the great practice player, great role player, great bench glue guy. But given the inadequacies of the other player deep on this bench he has been tossed into a role that doesn't suit him. He is not and never should be a team's primary backup SF. And right now because the other players on this team that play this position are so bad, that's what he is.

Tony Allen - Tony hasn't played this year, but that is just one of his many problems. In his 5 year career Tony has played over 51 games in a season just twice and may not make that number for a 4th year in a six year career. Now add in the turnovers, the bad outside shooting, the bad fouls, the fouls on three point shooters, the bad defensive rotations, the dribbling with his head down, the line drive tosses of the ball towards the basket and the fact that he is not demonstrably better now than the day he was drafted, and it's easy to see why he needs to go. He should never have been resigned.


The Celtics as currently constructed have the best starting five in the league and probably the best front court bench in the league with Williams, Wallace and Davis. Daniels gives them a quality 2 guard that is big and athletic enough to fill in at the 3 and versatile enough to fill in at the 1. But after that, I really think this bench is really bad. I mean horribly bad.

But they have something going for them. They all have contracts that can end at the end of this season. And in this year of economic uncertainty, teams maneuvering for cap space for the free agent period next year and a few teams in serious financial straights with possible ownership changes, those contracts that could expire might be very valuable.


Hudson      $457,000
Giddens     $1,028,000
Walker      $736,000
Allen       $2,500,000
House       $2,862,000
Scalabrine  $3,413,000

That's $10.996 million in expiring contracts. I really think it incumbent upon Danny Ainge to use the next few months before the trading deadline to use these expiring contracts to change the face of the back of this bench not only now but for the future. I think he needs to trade these pieces for at least two players that have the ability to contribute this year but also has the contract that will keep them with this team for at the very least one more year beyond this one.

I also think it would be great if he could trade for another late first round or early second round pick in the upcoming draft. To me, it's always great to have at least a couple of players that the team can develop. The 2-3 that are with the team now are cutting it and it's time to start over with a couple more next year.
I think a couple players that will be available late next year that Danny would be smart to go after would be

DaSean Butler SF West Virginia - a Paul Pierce clone in size and game but without the elite athleticism. he'll be available late first or into the second round.

DeMarcus Cousins PF/C Kentucky - big kid with a huge wingspan and giant potential with a lackadaisical attitude. But he's young and can mature.

Qunicy Pondexter SF Washington - this kid is an ATHLETE. He can do it all and may slip because of a bad first 2 years at college. Teams love the younger guys with potential but it is often those seniors that have had a chance to mature that turn into the better players in the late first round. Pondexter will be one of those guys.

Malcolm Lee PG UCLA - big long PG that is more a combo guard but has a real good handle and a ton of potential.


Those are the guys I would love to see danny pursue and if a trade of his expriings could land 2 of them that would be huge. Also, in trading the expiring contracts if he could somehow target these guys that I hopefully might become available, that would also make me a happy guy:

Randy Foye
Sergio Rodriguez
Andres Nocioni
Jerryd Bayless
Keyon Dooling
Corey Brewer
Ramon Sessions
Brandon Wright
Julian Wright
CJ Watson
Raja Bell
John Salmons
Kirk Hinrich
Tayshaun Prince

[Chris]

I can say with great confidence that Danny is looking for deals to upgrade the bottom half of the roster every day.  The problem is, I don't believe he has the go ahead to increase payroll, unless it will dramatically help the team, and I also think he does not have much interest in taking on long term salary, unless it is for VERY good value. 

I also think its worth noting that if teams are desperate to save money, they are not going to turn to the C's.  They are going to turn to teams who are under the cap, or have trade exceptions, so that they can save cash this year.  The only real value the expiring contracts have is by taking on other teams bad, longterm contracts...and I don't think the C's are interested in doing that.

Remember, it's not like this team is immune to the financial crisis.  It has been clear to me that the advertisers are not knocking down the door like they were a couple years ago, and there have been subtle cuts all throughout the corporation to suggest they are not rolling in the cash...which is not surprising since their Lease on the Garden does not give them the cash-flow that some teams who own their arena get.

So what I am trying to say is, while it would be nice for them to upgrade the bottom of the roster, and take advantage of their expiring contracts, I wouldn't count on it.  I think they will likely hold onto the contracts until close to the deadline, in case a glaring hole appears that they need to patch with them.  Then at that point, they will likely send one or two guys out in a deal similar to the POB deal that saves them a few bucks, and opens up a roster spot or two for buyouts (which there will likely be many).

[jdpapa3]

I just don't remember Bill Walker ever falling under Giddens in the depth chart and people keep harping on this. The only thing that has put him under Giddens in the depth chart has been injury.

[lon3lytoaster]

You know you're a good team when people are say we need to fix the end of the bench.  

I agree, though. I wouldn't mind trading any of the players you listed. Eddie's been huge in the past, but he's been way more inconsistent this year. Love the guy, his hustle, his energy and his blow out three pointers, but I wouldn't cry if he was traded.

He's got no shot selection and he often jacks shots that make me want to throw stuff at the TV and he can't shoot unless it's 25 feet away.

As for Hudson, Giddens, Walker, TA and Scals.. I'd love to see Walker here longer, same goes for Hudson but the rest can go by all means. If we could pick up a rotation player for any of them gotta jump on it.

It's just about who's available. In the NBA, it's really hard to tell. I'd give an arm and a leg for someone like Gerald Wallace, but would Charlotte trade him for expiring contracts? Probably not. Nocioni might be available, and if he is get him.

Maybe we could work out a three way with SAC and the Nets. TA, Scal, Giddens and House for Nocioni and Dooling?

[slamtheking]

Quite the article Nick.  TP for the effort.  
Been wondering what Danny's got planned for later this year for the expiring deals.

Personally, I agree all 6 of the players you mentioned as tradebait are up for grabs.  I think even BBD is an option depending on what you can get back and if there's a likelihood that Danny can bring back Shelden (which I'm becoming very doubtful of).  The concern I have with including BBD in a trade (I know, I brought it up, not you) is that with so many expiring deals this year and limited options for adding new players to the bench next year, Danny needs to keep as much talent as he can through next year.  Anyone coming back in a trade has to be talented and more than a partial-season rental.

I'd like to see some more of Walker and Hudson before shipping them off but if Danny gets an offer that's in the C's favor I can see him being added to a trade.  I can see Hudson filling Eddie's shoes very ably next year-->tougher defender, rebounder, better ball-handler and can create his own shot.  With luck, Walker could develop into that 2nd wing off the bench to team up with Marquis (hoping Danny can bring him back).  A bench of a seasoned Hudson, Walker, Marquis, Williams, BBD and Sheed is a nice starting point next year plus whoever Danny can pick up this year with the expiring deals.  

[nickagneta]

I don't see the optimism in Hudson, Walker or Giddens, though, honestly, Giddens isn't getting a lot. I don't think any of the three have shown more than one skill that could be called NBA quality. I say dump all three and try to start next year with their 2010 first round pick and another pick they could try to get a hold of.

[Roy Hobbs]

Randy Foye
Sergio Rodriguez
Andres Nocioni
Jerryd Bayless
Keyon Dooling
Corey Brewer
Ramon Sessions
Brandon Wright
Julian Wright
CJ Watson
Raja Bell
John Salmons
Kirk Hinrich
Tayshaun Prince

I don't envision any of those guys being traded for expiring contracts.  Maybe Raja Bell if Golden State was taking back less salary, but that's probably the only guy on that list who might get dumped for nothing other than expiring contracts.  To make a deal, I think we'd have to take back bad contracts, as well, and I doubt the team has much interest in that.

[Jon]

As some have already said, we probably don't have the salary to do a heck of a lot better than we do now.  Sure, 11 million is a lot, but considering that covers 6 players, that isn't horrible in NBA terms. 

Part of the problem is that we have so much talent in the top 7 or 8 that we don't have a lot of minutes to go beyond them.  Thus, we run the risk of bringing talented guys here who are going to get disgruntled racking up DNP/CDs all year.  Part of what's nice about Scal is that he takes the DNP/CDs and then comes in and does fairly well when need be. 

[Chris]

Randy Foye
Sergio Rodriguez
Andres Nocioni
Jerryd Bayless
Keyon Dooling
Corey Brewer
Ramon Sessions
Brandon Wright
Julian Wright
CJ Watson
Raja Bell
John Salmons
Kirk Hinrich
Tayshaun Prince

I don't envision any of those guys being traded for expiring contracts.  Maybe Raja Bell if Golden State was taking back less salary, but that's probably the only guy on that list who might get dumped for nothing other than expiring contracts.  To make a deal, I think we'd have to take back bad contracts, as well, and I doubt the team has much interest in that.

Exactly.

And I think for guys like Bell, if they cannot get value for him in return, my guess is they will choose to buy him out instead.  

Really, I think one of the biggest myths is that you can easily find quality players in the NBA for expiring contracts.  That simply is not true.  While expiring contracts are very valuable in the league, it is actually very rare that a good player on a reasonable contract is traded for an expiring contract without other major assets being involved.

Can anyone give me a good example?

Richard Jefferson was traded for non-guaranteed contracts that got them under the luxury tax...big difference from what the C's are offering.

Rafer Alston cost Orlando a first round pick.

Marcus Camby was picked up with cap space.

Artest (who was shooting his way out of town) cost Houston their first rounder (Dante Greene).

The closest I can think of is Joe Smith and Damon Jones for Mo Williams.  But Joe Smith is better than anyone we would be offering, and Mo Williams had a pretty ugly contract at the time, and the C's would likely scoff at a contract like that right now.  

[Roy Hobbs]

Randy Foye
Sergio Rodriguez
Andres Nocioni
Jerryd Bayless
Keyon Dooling
Corey Brewer
Ramon Sessions
Brandon Wright
Julian Wright
CJ Watson
Raja Bell
John Salmons
Kirk Hinrich
Tayshaun Prince

I don't envision any of those guys being traded for expiring contracts.  Maybe Raja Bell if Golden State was taking back less salary, but that's probably the only guy on that list who might get dumped for nothing other than expiring contracts.  To make a deal, I think we'd have to take back bad contracts, as well, and I doubt the team has much interest in that.

Exactly.

And I think for guys like Bell, if they cannot get value for him in return, my guess is they will choose to buy him out instead.  

Really, I think one of the biggest myths is that you can easily find quality players in the NBA for expiring contracts.  That simply is not true.  While expiring contracts are very valuable in the league, it is actually very rare that a good player on a reasonable contract is traded for an expiring contract without other major assets being involved.

Can anyone give me a good example?

Richard Jefferson was traded for non-guaranteed contracts that got them under the luxury tax...big difference from what the C's are offering.

Rafer Alston cost Orlando a first round pick.

Marcus Camby was picked up with cap space.

Artest (who was shooting his way out of town) cost Houston their first rounder (Dante Greene).

The closest I can think of is Joe Smith and Damon Jones for Mo Williams.  But Joe Smith is better than anyone we would be offering, and Mo Williams had a pretty ugly contract at the time, and the C's would likely scoff at a contract like that right now.  

I think the Jamal Crawford trade probably fits, although in that case the team was dumping a major headache, saved $2 million, and were getting back what looked to be a prospect.  Still, it's the best example I can think of.

[BballTim]

  While I don't really disagree with your assessments I don't know that we really need to do a deal. Most team's 10-15 players aren't significantly better than ours, so it's not like we're at a big disadvantage if we don't upgrade those guys. Also we don't have minutes for another rotation guy unless you send House out. You could upgrade his size and ballhandling, probably at the expense of outside shooting so I don't know that it's a real gain. Remember, the ultimate goal is the playoffs when Doc's going to go with an 8-9 player rotation.

[nickagneta]

I understand what you guys are saying but the economic situation and the free agent market are so completely different this year from any previous year, that this has to be brought into the equation. Dismissing the possibility outright that it is not possible because it hasn't happened before, precludes the thinking that all other factors this season are the same as every other year. That simply isn't true.

This off season is going to be so much different than most any other off season ever as the economy takes it's toll on season ticket renewals, merchandise purchasing, the salary and luxury tax. This is then going to effect the way teams do business not only this off season but in planning of the anticipation of the upcoming off season.

New Orleans will almost assuredly make a deal dropping salary this season and beyond. Charlotte and Memphis might start looking to dump contracts, not just bad ones, as their ownerships look to sell. Sacramento is in dire straights with an antiquated arena and owners losing big bucks in the movie production and Las Vegas hotel industries. Golden State is in a state of chaos and could be looking to move a good portion of their roster and New York, Chicago, New Jersey, Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Miami, Toronto and some other teams might be looking to dump salary for free agency purposes.

I really think you guys are underselling what could be happening in the league come this trade deadline.

[nickagneta]

I just don't remember Bill Walker ever falling under Giddens in the depth chart and people keep harping on this. The only thing that has put him under Giddens in the depth chart has been injury.

Danny made comments before Walker got hurt that he hadn't developed and that JR had passed him in his development as a player.

[Chris]

I understand what you guys are saying but the economic situation and the free agent market are so completely different this year from any previous year, that this has to be brought into the equation. Dismissing the possibility outright that it is not possible because it hasn't happened before, precludes the thinking that all other factors this season are the same as every other year. That simply isn't true.

This off season is going to be so much different than most any other off season ever as the economy takes it's toll on season ticket renewals, merchandise purchasing, the salary and luxury tax. This is then going to effect the way teams do business not only this off season but in planning of the anticipation of the upcoming off season.

New Orleans will almost assuredly make a deal dropping salary this season and beyond. Charlotte and Memphis might start looking to dump contracts, not just bad ones, as their ownerships look to sell. Sacramento is in dire straights with an antiquated arena and owners losing big bucks in the movie production and Las Vegas hotel industries. Golden State is in a state of chaos and could be looking to move a good portion of their roster and New York, Chicago, New Jersey, Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Miami, Toronto and some other teams might be looking to dump salary for free agency purposes.

I really think you guys are underselling what could be happening in the league come this trade deadline.

I don't disagree with any of this.  What I think you are overestimating however, is the C's financial situation. 

At the trade deadline, there will be a lot of sellers.  However, they are going to be looking to get rid of bad contracts.  Perhaps teams will give up more assets than usual to get rid of the bad contracts, but that is because no one wants to take on those contracts right now.  All of the teams are struggling for money, including the C's.

Most of the guys you listed were young, somewhat talented players, who had reasonable, if not bargain contracts.  So in order for teams to trade them for expiring contracts, they would also need the C's to take one (or more) of their bad contracts...and I just don't see that happening.

[nickagneta]

While I agree with Jon and BBall that come the playoff the 10-15th guys on the roster mean not to much and that most other teams don't have better plays in their positions, I'm looking at moving these guys this year to upgrade not only this year but next year. If everyone is left to expire or their let go, we only have the MLE and vet minimum contracts to sign as many as 8 players next year if we lose out on bringing Daniels and Williams back.

So trade these guys this year with the eye not solely on this year but next when we won't have a lot of options in bringing in other talent. If we could move Tony, Walker and Scal for a player that can be here for 2 years or more in the backup position at PG, SG or SF, I think the move has to happen to keep depth for next year.  If Scal and Giddens and House can be sent out of town for a talent at the PF position that will be around for a while, Danny has to do it.

The window for these guys isn't just this year. I think Danny really has to plan on having a good 9-10 player deep team through 2012 so that he limit minutes and can get the most of the older bodies and legs of Pierce, KG, Ray and Rasheed who the C's are heavily invested in.