Author Topic: Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets  (Read 2149 times)

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Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets
« on: January 17, 2019, 02:38:56 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Lol

Re: Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2019, 02:55:40 AM »

Offline perks-a-beast

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I really do think [especially in today’s league] that Harden will someday, probably in the next 3 years, surpass Kobe’s 81 pts. He’s that good of an offensive player.

Re: Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2019, 03:33:28 AM »

Offline Androslav

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One trick pony offense.
D'Antoni's trademark.
7 guys in the rotation, good to great reg season, flames out in playoffs.

I give Harden all the props for these performances, but it looks so inconsequential to me in the big picture (title).
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 06:46:04 AM by Androslav »
"The joy of the balling under the rims."

Re: Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2019, 07:15:58 AM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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I checked the box score and Harden took 19 three pointers and 23 free throws.  That's the exact opposite of a game I'd like to watch

Re: Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2019, 08:34:32 AM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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I checked the box score and Harden took 19 three pointers and 23 free throws.  That's the exact opposite of a game I'd like to watch
It was about as entertaining as it sounds. Dinwiddie played much better (looking) basketball in comparison.

Re: Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2019, 09:56:34 AM »

Offline Silky

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I hate Hardens game, and I hate that the league has morphed into a place where games like his are allowed to flourish.


Re: Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2019, 10:56:20 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Trey Wingo tweeted that Harden was doing it by himself.  None of his 115 points over the last 2 games were assisted.  Someone responded to his tweet with "The refs don't count?". 

Re: Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2019, 11:29:50 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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How often has it happened that the MVP of the league, at the height of his powers, is distinctly unpleasant to watch?


I disliked LeBron's style at times when it became mostly about backing out and then bulling his way to the rim.

I dislike Kobe's tendency to go into hero mode and hunt fouls / fadeaways inside.

But I never felt like they were completely single minded about doing just those things, whereas Harden is doing this in large part because he's pairing down every part of his game that is not in service to taking threes or garnering free throws.

Harden is very impressive, but there's no joy in what he's doing.
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Re: Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2019, 11:43:10 AM »

Offline Moranis

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How often has it happened that the MVP of the league, at the height of his powers, is distinctly unpleasant to watch?


I disliked LeBron's style at times when it became mostly about backing out and then bulling his way to the rim.

I dislike Kobe's tendency to go into hero mode and hunt fouls / fadeaways inside.

But I never felt like they were completely single minded about doing just those things, whereas Harden is doing this in large part because he's pairing down every part of his game that is not in service to taking threes or garnering free throws.

Harden is very impressive, but there's no joy in what he's doing.
Do you have the same criticism for Curry? 

Curry takes 58.5% of his shot attempts from 3 and another 14.1% from 0-3 feet of the hoop.  Harden is more prolific at the rim with 24.5% from 0-3, but takes less 3 pointers at 55.4%.  Curry takes a lot more long 2's with 11.4% coming from 16 feet to 3, which is mostly the difference in the shots at the rim. 
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Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
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Re: Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2019, 11:50:33 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Do you have the same criticism for Curry? 




Dude, no.  There's no comparison.

Curry spends a lot of time moving around with and without the ball.

Yeah he takes a lot of haymaker shots as well as step back threes.

It's not about the distribution of shots, it's about how the shots are created and the way in which teammates are or are not involved.


But Harden grinds the game down and actively hunts either a step back three or an opportunity to get fouled inside. 


Curry approaches the game like a more scoring-focused Nash.  Movement, flow, creativity.

Harden approaches the game like a machine.

It's deadly effective and very impressive, but it's not fun or aesthetically pleasing at all.


I get that some people find Curry aesthetically hard to enjoy because he breaks old notions of going for the inside game to free up your outside game, rather than the other way round.  But I don't have that hang up.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2019, 12:05:46 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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I hate Hardens game, and I hate that the league has morphed into a place where games like his are allowed to flourish.

Me too. I give Harden credit for taking advantage of what the league is offering, but I fault the league for creating this monster.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

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Re: Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2019, 12:23:00 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I hate Hardens game, and I hate that the league has morphed into a place where games like his are allowed to flourish.

Me too. I give Harden credit for taking advantage of what the league is offering, but I fault the league for creating this monster.


What could be done to change it, other than making radical alterations to the court / 3 point arc etc.?

Harden feels like a logical evolution given the basic math of the game, it was just never really possible in the past because the three pointer was not emphasized the way it is now.

Imagine the league in 10 years ... how many players will approach scoring like Harden does?
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2019, 12:28:46 PM »

Offline makaveli

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Trey Wingo tweeted that Harden was doing it by himself.  None of his 115 points over the last 2 games were assisted.  Someone responded to his tweet with "The refs don't count?".
TP :D
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Re: Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2019, 12:29:44 PM »

Offline Silky

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I hate Hardens game, and I hate that the league has morphed into a place where games like his are allowed to flourish.

Me too. I give Harden credit for taking advantage of what the league is offering, but I fault the league for creating this monster.


What could be done to change it, other than making radical alterations to the court / 3 point arc etc.?

Harden feels like a logical evolution given the basic math of the game, it was just never really possible in the past because the three pointer was not emphasized the way it is now.

Imagine the league in 10 years ... how many players will approach scoring like Harden does?

at the risk of sounding like an old man, the league needs to toughen up.

period.

Let players defend, let them put a hand on the offensive player, let them bump and shove a little.

Re: Harden scores 58 but rockets still lose to Nets
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2019, 12:33:05 PM »

Offline petbrick

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I hate Hardens game, and I hate that the league has morphed into a place where games like his are allowed to flourish.

Me too. I give Harden credit for taking advantage of what the league is offering, but I fault the league for creating this monster.


What could be done to change it, other than making radical alterations to the court / 3 point arc etc.?

Harden feels like a logical evolution given the basic math of the game, it was just never really possible in the past because the three pointer was not emphasized the way it is now.

Imagine the league in 10 years ... how many players will approach scoring like Harden does?

Not many. Take a look at any decade-long segment in the NBA and try to spot the stylistic similarities.

The important thing to keep in mind about this current wave of basketball is that it's a trend above all else. Just like buying BitCoin when your cab driver tells you you should is the exact opposite of what you should be doing, every team shooting three pointers at the exclusion of all else is going to result in every team defending them as well as possible.

It's the difference between marginal and absolute benefit: the Rockets, in particular, have been glomming onto the three because they identified it as an area of opportunity. There are three reasons for this: 1) it's worth more points. 2) players are more and more capable of shooting it, and 3) teams weren't defending it as well as they were in the past. Only one of those points is an absolute benefit (the value of the shot).

As teams get better at defending the three pointer and the rim, the mid-range shot actually becomes more valuable. It's always been a tool to punish teams that only defend the rim and the perimeter, only now the midrange is less contested than ever before, so we're soon approaching the point where players who can hit midrange shots at a higher clip than the league-average three shooter are going to be enough to make up for the fact that the three is worth one extra point, because they'll be underdefended.