Author Topic: David Aldridge: Butler trade is very real but stuck- Ainge won't include Crowder  (Read 29266 times)

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Offline LilRip

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We don't know what the price is but what I can't agree with are statements that echo the sentiment "Jimmy Butler is a minor upgrade from Crowder". Like, seriously?? Crowder is a 3 and D player. Butler is an all star. That's like saying Kawhi Leonard is a minor upgrade from Trevor Ariza.

In the context of Thomas being a high-usage first option, Butler is only a minor upgrade from Crowder.  He is not a good shooter and is therefore less of a threat off the ball.  That's offset a bit by giving us a viable second-option creator when IT can't get it done, but it's not an ideal fit. 

The best stars for superteams are always the ones who are just as valuable off the ball as on it (see, e.g., Durant, Curry, Thompson, Green), and Butler does not fit that mold.  I'm not saying I don't want him, but the improvement would not be as big as you think.

I firmly believe IT is good enough to change his game once he has better teammates. It's not like Butler is a black hole on offense either. Besides, I'm sure CBS can find more use for Butler other than "stand in the corner and shoot 3's".

Kinda like how JR smith can knock down 3's like nobody's business but having Kyrie who can drive the lane and create shots for others as well as knock down 3's (Butler isn't some chump shooter) is a much appreciated teammate for the generally ball-dominant Lebron.

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Offline celticinorlando

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Danny is looking to make a FA splash this summer...will be interesting. Durant and Curry will not leave GS...will Griffin want to move? Danny has seem to want him

Hayward seems like a fit..but is he a max player?

Online Neurotic Guy

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Has anyone her drawn a comparison of Butler to Pierce?   I know they aren't identical, but they play the 2/3 and are similar size (Pierce stronger) and both have the ability to create their own offense.   I tend to think of PP as the superior offensive player and JB as the superior defensive player -- but frankly I don't see enough Butler to be sure.   But the bottom line is that PP in his prime was probably right around where Butler is in terms of NBA ranking.  If we use a truly unscientific metric and say that JB is essentially the PP comp, that maybe IT (more or less) is RA (IT is offensively more diverse than RA was at 33; but defensively not big enough) and uhhhh AL is KG...  Obviously a dramatic downgrade on the AL-KG comp, but it allows one lens through which to view contending readiness.   Of course, the competition will determine true readiness.

Not ready to contend still with Butler, but maybe within shouting distance?

Offline JaylenBrown7

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JB is only a minor upgrade over crowder? Place crowder in chicagos system with no spacing and see how he fairs kver butler.

Offline Tr1boy

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Will ainge include anyone?? Lol

He could split the team into two very soon. Celtics 1 and Celtics 2

Offline celticinorlando

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Would prefer George over Butler. Then you offer more assests/players

Offline LilRip

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JB is only a minor upgrade over crowder? Place crowder in chicagos system with no spacing and see how he fairs kver butler.

This. It's ridiculous. Jimmy Butler isn't my fave player by any stretch but let's call a spade a spade.
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Online BitterJim

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Danny is looking to make a FA splash this summer...will be interesting. Durant and Curry will not leave GS...will Griffin want to move? Danny has seem to want him

Hayward seems like a fit..but is he a max player?

Yes, he absolutely is, especially in our system
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Offline rondohondo

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So if danny does jae, amir brk 18, then adds Bogut(playoff tested with a mean streak) , that is a [dang] good team


I would rather keep AB than Jae to guard Kyrie and possibly curry in the playoffs.

Let's add tucker while we're at it.

IT             Smart
AB.           Jaylen
Butler.        Tucker
Horford.      Jerebko
Bogut          KO

Still have brk 17 coming along with Yabu and Zicic

Online BitterJim

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We don't know what the price is but what I can't agree with are statements that echo the sentiment "Jimmy Butler is a minor upgrade from Crowder". Like, seriously?? Crowder is a 3 and D player. Butler is an all star. That's like saying Kawhi Leonard is a minor upgrade from Trevor Ariza.

Not it isn't.  Leonard is an MVP candidate, and Crowder is more valuable than Ariza.  I agree that Butler would definitely be an upgrade from Crowder, but that's a bad example

It's a close enough example. Crowder and Ariza are both highly capable role players, play terrific D, and shoot the three ball fairly well. Neither can be relied on to create offense consistently. Meanwhile, Kawhi and Butler are surefire allstars, extremely hard workers, lock down defenders, and can create their own shot even if the defense is geared to stop them.

You'd like to think so but no. There's a huge gap between Kawhi Leonard and Jimmy Butler, and Crowder is better than Ariza.

Yup.  Paul George vs. Danny Green would be a much better comparison.  Butler is very good, but he is not on Kawhi's level, especially on defense
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Offline RJ87

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JB is only a minor upgrade over crowder? Place crowder in chicagos system with no spacing and see how he fairs kver butler.

This. It's ridiculous. Jimmy Butler isn't my fave player by any stretch but let's call a spade a spade.

Yeah... I respect what Jae brings to this team as much as the next fan, but he's not in the same conversation as Jimmy. We're talking about a role player vs. a 3x All-Star.
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Offline ssspence

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Crowder should be untouchable.  If Ainge wants to build a "sustainable" roster, Crowder is irreplaceable.

I have to agree. If Crowder is required in a trade for a guy who is really good -- but not a true star -- I wait. In a salary capped league, his economics <> effectiveness ratio is too good.

But I'd like to think Bradley -- possibly combined with Rozier -- could be tempting for them.
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Offline Fan from VT

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Has anyone her drawn a comparison of Butler to Pierce?   I know they aren't identical, but they play the 2/3 and are similar size (Pierce stronger) and both have the ability to create their own offense.   I tend to think of PP as the superior offensive player and JB as the superior defensive player -- but frankly I don't see enough Butler to be sure.   But the bottom line is that PP in his prime was probably right around where Butler is in terms of NBA ranking.  If we use a truly unscientific metric and say that JB is essentially the PP comp, that maybe IT (more or less) is RA (IT is offensively more diverse than RA was at 33; but defensively not big enough) and uhhhh AL is KG...  Obviously a dramatic downgrade on the AL-KG comp, but it allows one lens through which to view contending readiness.   Of course, the competition will determine true readiness.

Not ready to contend still with Butler, but maybe within shouting distance?

I think PP was better. He developed into quite a good defender, with a very good defensive rep among some of the better NBA analysts. Better offensive player too, with a more proven consistent peak.

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Will ainge include anyone?? Lol

This is funny, because it seems like it could very well be true—sometimes I do, in fact, get the impression that Danny wouldn't include Crowder (or AB, or Brown, or any current Celtic) in a trade for LeBron.

I just have to keep reminding myself that a) I'm not in control, and b) Danny's pretty good at what he does, and hasn't screwed up anything thus far, so I need to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he's stubbornly hanging onto Crowder, he has a good reason for doing so.
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Offline Trifecta

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Danny is looking to make a FA splash this summer...will be interesting. Durant and Curry will not leave GS...will Griffin want to move? Danny has seem to want him

Hayward seems like a fit..but is he a max player?

This is why I think people waiting for another "FA splash" this summer are in for a rude awakening.. Durant is staying where he is, Griffin is an injury waiting to happen and is not the same player most are thinking of (highlight reel machine), and that's IF he decided to sign here which is unlikely.. and Hayward is the type of player you add as your 3rd option. Not your second or first. And does he make you that much better? To take a page out of some other people's book here, is he THAT much better than Bradley? How about Crowder? Not to mention, barring another deal, you would be putting one of those 2 on the bench if you sign Hayward. And neither would be happy with that.. also signing Hayward to a max deal hurts your flexibility even more going forward. Butler is on a friendlier contract. 17.5 mil compared to 26.5 for a max deal.

So.. I don't know, maybe someone else can think of another player who moves the needle free agency. Cause I don't see it, personally.
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