Sam Cassell wants to come back; how does that effect House? (merged)

[Rondo2287]

I dont think its reasonable to say sam is washed up.  He hasnt played this number of minutes since his rookie year.  You are asking a 14 year veteran to do something completely different than what he had been asked to do the rest of the year, and he was still able to contribute.  I think there is a definite correlation between the fact that he played the shortest minutes this year and the fact that he had a career low shooting percentage of 38.5%.  Although it is worth noting that he shot 40% from three point range  for Boston which is better than any other point in his career. 

[BudweiserCeltic]

One thing to notice though is that as the playoffs progressed, his playmaking within our offense (ballmovement) and his defensive rotations improved dramatically. I don't think anyone wants to give him credit for that. He takes one or two awful shots in a game, and that's all everyone wants to talk about, when instead he was moving the ball fairly well.

I saw some improvement in how he played with our team in order not to think that this is the catastrophy everyone is paiting it as. You also need to consider that most of his shots are high percentage shots, they simply weren't falling for him. Now, you also have to consider that he was battling a bad back and a wrist injury. Who knows how it affected him.

If anything about resigning him worries me it's his health and how it affects his game more than how he fits with our team. He was a great locker room guy, a good mentor for Rajon, and as Doc mentioned during the playoffs that he was glad Cassell was around because that meant he could leave the teaching up to him (PG's) so that he could focus on other matters.

Yes, Cassell played mostly bad with us during the playoffs... but things have been way overstated and exaggerated. Give him a full season with the group and hopefully an offseason to recover from his injuries, and we could start seeing that great mid-range shot going in with consistency.

With all that said, I'd preffer if we looked for other options out there. I think there are quite a few that are affordable to us, but more than anything it'll all depend on how we handle the Posey situation. If he takes the full MLE, we really can't be choosers and just go with whatever we can get our hands on.

[crownsy]

I dont think its reasonable to say sam is washed up.  He hasnt played this number of minutes since his rookie year.  You are asking a 14 year veteran to do something completely different than what he had been asked to do the rest of the year, and he was still able to contribute.  I think there is a definite correlation between the fact that he played the shortest minutes this year and the fact that he had a career low shooting percentage of 38.5%.  Although it is worth noting that he shot 40% from three point range  for Boston which is better than any other point in his career. 

its also worth noting, to be fair, that he was having a bad year as a starter in LAC, and his numbers stayed right in line.

and can you name me the other 39 year old PG who hasen't shown marked decline and is worthy of a bench spot on a contending team around the league?

i find it hard to belive that sam's declining stats are the result of much more than nature. as guys who rely on thier legs get older, they break down and shoot/defened worse.

it's not thier fault, its life.

[EJPLAYA]

I can remember plenty of times when Sam was effective during the game in the role that we needed.  You talk about bad shots he's taking but most of the time he is out there with a group of subs and either pierce or allen.  Pierce or allen are doubled, and with powe, posey, and perk or pj on the floor with him, i would say he is one of our better offensive options.  I am much more comfortable with him taking mid range jumpers which has been his game his entire career than with pj taking a jumper, or leon forcing it inside. 

I also think you need to give him time to adjust to a new team before you judge him.  The Celtics were asking him to do something he hasnt done his entire career which is be a spark off the bench. I think it is only natural to put up shots when you come into a game knowing your minutes are limited and trying to buy yourself more time by coming into the game and shooting the ball well. 

Also i can remember plenty of times when you saw Sam being the first player off the bench after a timeout is called congratulating guys and talking to guys on the bench about the game.  I think Cassel understands his role on this team and was an incredible character guy for them as well as a very knowledgeable veteran presence.

right, all good points. but to be fair, he can provide leadership in an assistant coach role (which i would really have no problem with, all reports are he's a great teacher and wants to coach) and as to the "you relly need to give him time to gel" comment;

the man is 39, and his legs are clearly breaking down. as i said, he can't play defense. he is horrid moving lateraly. im not saying he's a cripple, i hope i can move half as well when im 39 on the court, but this is the NBA, not my rec league.

sam is out of time, he's a 39 year old gaurd. he's not going to make any marked improvemnts in his game.

assistant coach or on another team please.

Not really interested in a coach who spent his career shooting first and passing second. What's he going to teach them?! There are guys out there who were pass first shoot second types of guys that could provide that same leadership if you feel you must go with a player/coach type person.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I can remember plenty of times when Sam was effective during the game in the role that we needed.  You talk about bad shots he's taking but most of the time he is out there with a group of subs and either pierce or allen.  Pierce or allen are doubled, and with powe, posey, and perk or pj on the floor with him, i would say he is one of our better offensive options.  I am much more comfortable with him taking mid range jumpers which has been his game his entire career than with pj taking a jumper, or leon forcing it inside. 

I also think you need to give him time to adjust to a new team before you judge him.  The Celtics were asking him to do something he hasnt done his entire career which is be a spark off the bench. I think it is only natural to put up shots when you come into a game knowing your minutes are limited and trying to buy yourself more time by coming into the game and shooting the ball well. 

Also i can remember plenty of times when you saw Sam being the first player off the bench after a timeout is called congratulating guys and talking to guys on the bench about the game.  I think Cassel understands his role on this team and was an incredible character guy for them as well as a very knowledgeable veteran presence.

right, all good points. but to be fair, he can provide leadership in an assistant coach role (which i would really have no problem with, all reports are he's a great teacher and wants to coach) and as to the "you relly need to give him time to gel" comment;

the man is 39, and his legs are clearly breaking down. as i said, he can't play defense. he is horrid moving lateraly. im not saying he's a cripple, i hope i can move half as well when im 39 on the court, but this is the NBA, not my rec league.

sam is out of time, he's a 39 year old gaurd. he's not going to make any marked improvemnts in his game.

assistant coach or on another team please.

Not really interested in a coach who spent his career shooting first and passing second. What's he going to teach them?! There are guys out there who were pass first shoot second types of guys that could provide that same leadership if you feel you must go with a player/coach type person.

I think Rondo would benefit more from a guy that will teach him to be a bit more selfish and make him shoot a bit more and have confidence on his shot lol.

[Rondo2287]

In the last three years sams Minutes have gone down by ten.  His points have decreased by 5 and assists by 2.  I wouldn't really say his stats are diminishing because he is washed up.  I think that is consistent with less play if you ask me. 

[EJPLAYA]

In the last three years sams Minutes have gone down by ten.  His points have decreased by 5 and assists by 2.  I wouldn't really say his stats are diminishing because he is washed up.  I think that is consistent with less play if you ask me. 

More like " Sam's minutes have gone down the past three years because he is becoming more and more washed up". At his peak Sam was a better PG than Rondo is at this point. If he weren't washed up then he would have quickly become the starter on this team, or at least gotten the majority of the minutes. Face it. He's washed up...

[crownsy]

In the last three years sams Minutes have gone down by ten.  His points have decreased by 5 and assists by 2.  I wouldn't really say his stats are diminishing because he is washed up.  I think that is consistent with less play if you ask me. 

so your not willing to conceed hi minutes are declining because he's getting older and is unable to play as many? that was always my take on his situation.

thats what i see, natrual ageing taking away minutes.
why we'd want to give a valuable bench slot to a 39 year old when there are plenty of FA back up guys is beyond me.

I think washed up is alittle strong, mostly because i don't like the term. he's just ageing in a young mans game. but the principle is sound, and i don't see why he should command a bench slot on next years squad when we can get more durable guys minute wise who provide what he does.

On a side note, TP EJ, you were right when he got here, he wasen't what we needed. Now i'm even more on board with you, no bench slot for sam next year danny, please.

[Jon]

As I said before, there may be better options available.  Guys like Janero Pargo, Brent Barry, Tyronn Lue, Anthony Carter, Chris Duhon, and Carlos Arroyo all might be better fits. 

Still, as I said earlier, we're in a slightly better spot this year than last in terms of point guard because of the evolution of Rajon Rondo over the past year.  Given that it's reasonable to expect him to be even better next year, the need for a solid backup is less.  So if we took Cassell or House back, it probably wouldn't be the end of the world. 

Still, as this year proved with our close game 7 victory against Cleveland, even the little things matter.  So having the best PG play possible will be important.  Plus, as my father noted to me yesterday, with Rondo's slight build, it wouldn't hurt to have a solid backup in case he does go down with an injury. 

[Rondo2287]

In the last three years sams Minutes have gone down by ten.  His points have decreased by 5 and assists by 2.  I wouldn't really say his stats are diminishing because he is washed up.  I think that is consistent with less play if you ask me. 

More like " Sam's minutes have gone down the past three years because he is becoming more and more washed up". At his peak Sam was a better PG than Rondo is at this point. If he weren't washed up then he would have quickly become the starter on this team, or at least gotten the majority of the minutes. Face it. He's washed up...

I dont think a single person on this entire blog would argue for Cassel to start over Rondo.  This thread is whether or not Cassel would be valuable to the team if he wanted to come back.  I believe that he still has alot that he can contribute to this team. 

[crownsy]

In the last three years sams Minutes have gone down by ten.  His points have decreased by 5 and assists by 2.  I wouldn't really say his stats are diminishing because he is washed up.  I think that is consistent with less play if you ask me. 

More like " Sam's minutes have gone down the past three years because he is becoming more and more washed up". At his peak Sam was a better PG than Rondo is at this point. If he weren't washed up then he would have quickly become the starter on this team, or at least gotten the majority of the minutes. Face it. He's washed up...

I dont think a single person on this entire blog would argue for Cassel to start over Rondo.  This thread is whether or not Cassel would be valuable to the team if he wanted to come back.  I believe that he still has alot that he can contribute to this team. 

and i belive that almost all those PG's that jon just listed have much more to contribute than a 39 year old who has seen his minutes and ability decline to age for the last 5 years.

I'd pretty much take everyone off that list over cassell at backup PG. the only exception is lue and mabey carter.

and EJ wasen't saying he would start him over rondo or that anyone was saying that, he was saying his career is in decline, which it clearly is. thats what happenes when you get older.

[ScoobyDoo]

Best possible scenario to me is this:

Rondo: Starts
EHouse: back Up
Pruitt: pulling up fast from behind
Cassell: Point guard coach who can practice and play if a major injury occurs...

I like House for one main reason. I think if he's one of three in the rotation his ego will allow him to take less minutes so that Pruitt can gain time and experience throughout this coming year. I think that's critical because I believe that Pruitt is very capable of becoming and outstanding back up point and possibly great trade bait down the line. We need to develope him. House will allow that.

[Rondo2287]

I never said that hes not getting old.  I still think he has more to contribute than a backup pointguard that has no experience playing with the members of our team.  Pierce said, "This year was different because i was passing to established players."  This is one of the scenarios.  Cassel played with both Garnett and Ray and they are comfortable with him.  I think that along with the fact that at age 39 i think he has better skills than all of those players on that list with the exception of Duhon. 

[crownsy]

I never said that hes not getting old.  I still think he has more to contribute than a backup pointguard that has no experience playing with the members of our team.  Pierce said, "This year was different because i was passing to established players."  This is one of the scenarios.  Cassel played with both Garnett and Ray and they are comfortable with him.  I think that along with the fact that at age 39 i think he has better skills than all of those players on that list with the exception of Duhon. 

sorry, dont see how that applies. List for me why those gaurds jon listed, all viable options, couldn't come in from training camp and contribute more than sam did this year.

and only duhon is better? sam played awful all year. from that list i'd rank them liek this in terms of current value.

Duhon
barry
aryo
pargo
house
cassell
lue
carter

and i might be generous giving sam the nod over lue.


Eddie house didn't have a year to gel either, he learned the offense fine from training camp. Danny invested little in sam commitment wise for a reason.

to me, its about the value of the player. sam has little at this point and is never going to get better. theres 6-7 PG's on the market who would sign for short money who could be vast improvments.

[Rondo2287]

Those guys wouldent contribute as much as Sam because none of them besides Brent Barry have won a championship or have significant playoff experience.    Pargo in particular looked awful down the stretch for the hornets this year.  Barry being the only one with a championship averaged 5 points, 1 rebound, and one assist during the playoffs.  Not very good if you ask me.