Would you trade Rondo + Green for Kings 2014 lotto pick + Mclemore ?

[BballTim]

As it turns out, Ray has been the more valuable player by far the entire time that Green has been in the league. 

  The only reason Ray was more valuable than Green in 11/12 was Green missing the season with heart problems. The claim that Ray was the more valuable player last year seems like it would be pretty hard to defend.

Per 36

Allen 15.3p, 3.8r, 2.4a, 1.2s, 0.3b, 1.8t, 2.3f 48.0 (2pt%)/41.9 (3pt%)/88.6 (ft%) PER 14.7

Green 16.6p, 5.1r, 2.0a, 0.9s, 1.1b, 2.1t, 2.8f 49.0/38.5/80.8 PER 15.0

I don't think it is quite as cut and dry as you are making it out to be.

  No, not if your analysis is based solely on stats and you don't realize that a) they didn't play the same amount of minutes/game, b) that Green was coming back from injury, his ppg (per36) was a couple of points higher after the all-star break, c) that Green led his team in scoring in the playoffs while Ray was still coming off the bench, or d) that Green's a better defender than Ray.

[Moranis]

As it turns out, Ray has been the more valuable player by far the entire time that Green has been in the league. 

  The only reason Ray was more valuable than Green in 11/12 was Green missing the season with heart problems. The claim that Ray was the more valuable player last year seems like it would be pretty hard to defend.

Per 36

Allen 15.3p, 3.8r, 2.4a, 1.2s, 0.3b, 1.8t, 2.3f 48.0 (2pt%)/41.9 (3pt%)/88.6 (ft%) PER 14.7

Green 16.6p, 5.1r, 2.0a, 0.9s, 1.1b, 2.1t, 2.8f 49.0/38.5/80.8 PER 15.0

I don't think it is quite as cut and dry as you are making it out to be.

  No, not if your analysis is based solely on stats and you don't realize that a) they didn't play the same amount of minutes/game, b) that Green was coming back from injury, his ppg (per36) was a couple of points higher after the all-star break, c) that Green led his team in scoring in the playoffs while Ray was still coming off the bench, or d) that Green's a better defender than Ray.

Green played about 3 minutes more a game than Allen.  As for the bench thing, Allen is backing up Wade, his numbers and efficiency were about the same as the year before when he was playing 34 minutes a night.  Put Allen on a team that doesn't have Wade and he probably out performs Green rather significantly on the offensive end.  Now sure Green is a better defender, but that's about it.

[BballTim]

As it turns out, Ray has been the more valuable player by far the entire time that Green has been in the league. 

  The only reason Ray was more valuable than Green in 11/12 was Green missing the season with heart problems. The claim that Ray was the more valuable player last year seems like it would be pretty hard to defend.

Per 36

Allen 15.3p, 3.8r, 2.4a, 1.2s, 0.3b, 1.8t, 2.3f 48.0 (2pt%)/41.9 (3pt%)/88.6 (ft%) PER 14.7

Green 16.6p, 5.1r, 2.0a, 0.9s, 1.1b, 2.1t, 2.8f 49.0/38.5/80.8 PER 15.0

I don't think it is quite as cut and dry as you are making it out to be.

  No, not if your analysis is based solely on stats and you don't realize that a) they didn't play the same amount of minutes/game, b) that Green was coming back from injury, his ppg (per36) was a couple of points higher after the all-star break, c) that Green led his team in scoring in the playoffs while Ray was still coming off the bench, or d) that Green's a better defender than Ray.

Green played about 3 minutes more a game than Allen.  As for the bench thing, Allen is backing up Wade, his numbers and efficiency were about the same as the year before when he was playing 34 minutes a night.  Put Allen on a team that doesn't have Wade and he probably out performs Green rather significantly on the offensive end.  Now sure Green is a better defender, but that's about it.

  By "Put Allen on a team that doesn't have Wade" you really mean "Put Allen on a team that doesn't have a sg as good as Avery Bradley". The reason Ray went to Miami in the first place is that he found backing up Wade to be less embarrassing than backing up Bradley.

  Allen shared the court quite a bit with Wade, by the way. Put him on a team that doesn't have Wade and James to draw the attention of the defense and he won't be outperforming Green on the offensive end. Maybe you could duplicate the Celts (arguably the best passer in the game and a team willing to use up quite a bit of the shot clock to try and get him open) but I doubt it.

[aingeforthree]

I don't think this packaged deal is even possible with the Kings team. Sacramento's roster has the same issue as the Celtics.  Too many players at one position.

Namely the guard spot for both rosters.  Vasquez, Thomas, Jimmer, Thornton, McLemore, & McCallum.  They can't keep all of them.  I'm sure Thornton would be the ideal guard to move but his contract is tough.

Looking at their 3 spot, an upgrade over John Salmons is vastly needed.  Jeff Green or Gerald Wallace are both better options for them.

A better option at striking a deal with them would be taking on a guard and maybe say Jason Thompson, for Green or Wallace.  Could you land a top pick in the future from them ?  Maybe.  Pretty tough though.

I.E.

Jeff Green for Thompson + Fredette (Jimmer might be the odd man out in the minute distribution with that team so he's probably moved at some point) + maybe the right to switch 1st round picks with them in 2015 ?

This might be more realistic but would also overload our own roster once again.  I like Thompson helping out on the boards better than say Bass, but his contract is a concern.  Fredette keeps improving year after year and is still young, & can still shoot the rock with the best of them.

I think other moves have to be made though for this type of deal to even work.  Unloading Bass, Lee, etc. to other teams for some sort of compensation.

[nostar]

OP: No I wouldn't. Rondo is such a good player and McLemore is still an unknown. The pick can be in the 6-14 range and that doesn't merit giving up our all-star PG.

I would give up Rondo for a top-5 pick and a good prospect. Unfortunately there probably won't be any teams willing to give up that much for a flawed PG coming off of an ACL tear.

[chambers]

Interesting clashes of opinions.
here's where I also posted the trade...general Nba forum on real gm to guage outsider perspective....
funny how anti celtic or Rondo some haters are, but also some reasonable insight as to why the Kings might not be interested.
We as fans to tend to over value Rondo slightly.

[Birdman]

noooo

[BballTim]

Interesting clashes of opinions.
here's where I also posted the trade...general Nba forum on real gm to guage outsider perspective....
funny how anti celtic or Rondo some haters are, but also some reasonable insight as to why the Kings might not be interested.
We as fans to tend to over value Rondo slightly.

  I would guess the "We as fans to tend to over value Rondo slightly" is based on the assumption that the yahoos on realgm are accurate in their analysis of the value of players and the motivations of teams considering trades. I've been there a few times and know better.

[chambers]

whoops, here's the link to the RealGM general NBA trade discussion forums.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1278489

Interesting clashes of opinions.
here's where I also posted the trade...general Nba forum on real gm to guage outsider perspective....
funny how anti celtic or Rondo some haters are, but also some reasonable insight as to why the Kings might not be interested.
We as fans to tend to over value Rondo slightly.

  I would guess the "We as fans to tend to over value Rondo slightly" is based on the assumption that the yahoos on realgm are accurate in their analysis of the value of players and the motivations of teams considering trades. I've been there a few times and know better.

Just as much as most educated fans that visit realGM would read 90% of the topics created by the green eyed yahoos on Celticsblog and laugh when they see trade proposals like most of them here?

[BballTim]

whoops, here's the link to the RealGM general NBA trade discussion forums.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1278489

Interesting clashes of opinions.
here's where I also posted the trade...general Nba forum on real gm to guage outsider perspective....
funny how anti celtic or Rondo some haters are, but also some reasonable insight as to why the Kings might not be interested.
We as fans to tend to over value Rondo slightly.

  I would guess the "We as fans to tend to over value Rondo slightly" is based on the assumption that the yahoos on realgm are accurate in their analysis of the value of players and the motivations of teams considering trades. I've been there a few times and know better.

Just as much as most educated fans that visit realGM would read 90% of the topics created by the green eyed yahoos on Celticsblog and laugh when they see trade proposals like most of them here?

  Sure, quite a few of the trade proposals here are probably silly. That doesn't somehow add any accuracy to realgm. All you're doing is taking the gamut of opinions you see here about the Celts (some too optimistic, some too pessimistic, some right on occasion) and adding in the same spectrum of opinions for 29 more teams. You get different opinions on trades or players but you don't magically get more accuracy or closer to what's in the mind of GMs.

[Fafnir]

As it turns out, Ray has been the more valuable player by far the entire time that Green has been in the league. 

  The only reason Ray was more valuable than Green in 11/12 was Green missing the season with heart problems. The claim that Ray was the more valuable player last year seems like it would be pretty hard to defend.

Per 36

Allen 15.3p, 3.8r, 2.4a, 1.2s, 0.3b, 1.8t, 2.3f 48.0 (2pt%)/41.9 (3pt%)/88.6 (ft%) PER 14.7

Green 16.6p, 5.1r, 2.0a, 0.9s, 1.1b, 2.1t, 2.8f 49.0/38.5/80.8 PER 15.0

I don't think it is quite as cut and dry as you are making it out to be.

The issue with Allen's play last year was that he compromised the Heat's defensive scheme tremendously when he was out there.

Offensively he was still a floor spacing threat that opened things up for others while scoring at a decent rate and good efficiency. His defense was bad enough that he was a net negative except in situations where you needed a 3. (or would be putting Norris cole out there with Chalmers etc)