Rumor: Jrue Holiday is available via trade

[tazzmaniac]

Simmons has said just that several of the various podcasts he has been on, that the Sixers screwed up by giving him the extension early which left them with no way to trade him.

Philly gets Hayward, Grant, Wanamaker, Edwards, and Green.

Celtics get Simmons, Richardson, Scott, Smith, Burke.

Salaries work*.  I’m not sure the resultant teams do, however, and almost certainly Philly needs at least the Memphis pick.

* — Sixers absorb Hayward and Edwards by the 125% rule from all their outgoing players aggregated together, Wanamaker and Green via the minimum exception, and Grant through the Fultz TPE.  Celtics absorb Simmons and Richardson using 125% of Hayward’s salary, Smith via 175% of Grant, Scott via 175% of Wanamaker+Edwards+Green, and Burke via the minimum exception.

That is an absolutely horrible trade for the Sixers even with the Memphis pick.   

[hwangjini_1]

Celtics and 76ers will never do a trade..never!

hmmmmm...i wonder how the sixers ever got the chance to draft fultz?? 

[Who]

Ridiculous trade idea from Bill Simmons.

Ben Simmons is way more valuable as a trade asset than Jrue Holiday is. It is nowhere near close. Daylight robbery.

[Birdman]

 

Celtics and 76ers will never do a trade..never!

hmmmmm...i wonder how the sixers ever got the chance to draft fultz?? 

Talking bout players not picks

[Big333223]

Pelicans get the Memphis pick from Celtics

Team 3 gets Jrue Holiday Pelicans

Boston gets ? from Team 3

Who needs Jrue and has a center for the Celtics but doesn't have the right asset to get him from the Pels?

[footey]

Bill Simmons speculates that Holiday for Ben Simmons makes a lot of sense for both teams, although I feel Pels would probably have to include additional picks.

that is a dumb trade for the Sixers.  Holiday just doesn't seem like the right kind of fit or talent for them to move on from Simmons.

Maybe there’s something to it then. I thought it was bad for NO. Nobody knows what Ingram and ZW can be, but I wouldn’t pair them with a non-shooting PG

Holiday is a crappier version of Butler and we saw last year that Butler and Embiid weren't a great fit (and that was when Redick was around).  You may be right that Simmons isn't a great fit with Ingram and Zion (though I think he'd be fine as he is way better than Lonzo and they seem to make that work ok without Zion), but Simmons has more value than Holiday does.  Now if Holiday was the perfect fit in Philly, maybe you give up the better player for the better fitting one, but Holiday isn't a great fit.  That is a bad trade for the Sixers.  It is also nearly impossible for the trade to happen given Simmons' poison pill provision.

Actually they were one bucket from beating the eventual champions. I thought Butler worked pretty well with Embiid. Better than Simmons and Embiid do.

[saltlover]

Simmons has said just that several of the various podcasts he has been on, that the Sixers screwed up by giving him the extension early which left them with no way to trade him.

Philly gets Hayward, Grant, Wanamaker, Edwards, and Green.

Celtics get Simmons, Richardson, Scott, Smith, Burke.

Salaries work*.  I’m not sure the resultant teams do, however, and almost certainly Philly needs at least the Memphis pick.

* — Sixers absorb Hayward and Edwards by the 125% rule from all their outgoing players aggregated together, Wanamaker and Green via the minimum exception, and Grant through the Fultz TPE.  Celtics absorb Simmons and Richardson using 125% of Hayward’s salary, Smith via 175% of Grant, Scott via 175% of Wanamaker+Edwards+Green, and Burke via the minimum exception.

That is an absolutely horrible trade for the Sixers even with the Memphis pick.   

I said I wasn’t sure the resulting teams worked.  It was more of an exercise to show that it is technically possible for the Celtics and Sixers to make a mid-season trade despite the poison pill.  A better trade that works the same is Kemba instead of Hayward.

[Somebody]

We shouldn't be looking to acquire Jrue Holiday unless it's Kemba for him and Zion

[Moranis]

Bill Simmons speculates that Holiday for Ben Simmons makes a lot of sense for both teams, although I feel Pels would probably have to include additional picks.

that is a dumb trade for the Sixers.  Holiday just doesn't seem like the right kind of fit or talent for them to move on from Simmons.

Maybe there’s something to it then. I thought it was bad for NO. Nobody knows what Ingram and ZW can be, but I wouldn’t pair them with a non-shooting PG

Holiday is a crappier version of Butler and we saw last year that Butler and Embiid weren't a great fit (and that was when Redick was around).  You may be right that Simmons isn't a great fit with Ingram and Zion (though I think he'd be fine as he is way better than Lonzo and they seem to make that work ok without Zion), but Simmons has more value than Holiday does.  Now if Holiday was the perfect fit in Philly, maybe you give up the better player for the better fitting one, but Holiday isn't a great fit.  That is a bad trade for the Sixers.  It is also nearly impossible for the trade to happen given Simmons' poison pill provision.

Actually they were one bucket from beating the eventual champions. I thought Butler worked pretty well with Embiid. Better than Simmons and Embiid do.

I'm going from memory, but I recall the advanced metrics on the Embiid/Butler duo weren't that good (or at least as good as other Embiid combinations).  Butler offensively often fills the same spots on the floor that Embiid does and they didn't always get along very well.  Butler wasn't a good enough shooter to really make it work with Embiid.  This was obviously compounded with Simmons who wouldn't be around in that scenario, but I don't think Butler/Embiid really worked all that well.  And Holiday is a much worse overall player than Butler is.  It is just a terrible trade for the Sixers.  I get the idea that Simmons/Embiid isn't a great pairing, but Simmons has far more value than Holiday does.  If the Sixers move on from Simmons, it won't be for a Butler-lite type player.

[Somebody]

Bill Simmons speculates that Holiday for Ben Simmons makes a lot of sense for both teams, although I feel Pels would probably have to include additional picks.

that is a dumb trade for the Sixers.  Holiday just doesn't seem like the right kind of fit or talent for them to move on from Simmons.

Maybe there’s something to it then. I thought it was bad for NO. Nobody knows what Ingram and ZW can be, but I wouldn’t pair them with a non-shooting PG

Holiday is a crappier version of Butler and we saw last year that Butler and Embiid weren't a great fit (and that was when Redick was around).  You may be right that Simmons isn't a great fit with Ingram and Zion (though I think he'd be fine as he is way better than Lonzo and they seem to make that work ok without Zion), but Simmons has more value than Holiday does.  Now if Holiday was the perfect fit in Philly, maybe you give up the better player for the better fitting one, but Holiday isn't a great fit.  That is a bad trade for the Sixers.  It is also nearly impossible for the trade to happen given Simmons' poison pill provision.

Actually they were one bucket from beating the eventual champions. I thought Butler worked pretty well with Embiid. Better than Simmons and Embiid do.

I'm going from memory, but I recall the advanced metrics on the Embiid/Butler duo weren't that good (or at least as good as other Embiid combinations).  Butler offensively often fills the same spots on the floor that Embiid does and they didn't always get along very well.  Butler wasn't a good enough shooter to really make it work with Embiid.  This was obviously compounded with Simmons who wouldn't be around in that scenario, but I don't think Butler/Embiid really worked all that well.  And Holiday is a much worse overall player than Butler is.  It is just a terrible trade for the Sixers.  I get the idea that Simmons/Embiid isn't a great pairing, but Simmons has far more value than Holiday does.  If the Sixers move on from Simmons, it won't be for a Butler-lite type player.

They weren't great but they weren't bad either, that duo was enough to be a title contender. It wasn't entirely Butler's fault, Embiid has scalability issues on good squads as well - he's not a good passer and his shooting is iffy enough that he's not a great floor spacer, ntm that he has some ball pounding tendencies for a big man. I think Simmons is the real problem on that 76ers squad - sure Harris and Butler aren't the perfect fit next to Embiid, but at least they had a modicum of shooting ability to space the floor, Simmons has virtually no shooting prowess and operates as a big in the half court.

I think they could trade Harris for Paul, this would give them a true floor general who can let Simmons be the secondary ballhandler and focus on what he does best (defence, fast break attacks, garbage man offence, eg. roll man, short corner, crashing the offensive glass, etc.) while giving the 76ers a bit more bite in crunch time offence (even this iteration of Paul can score against stingier playoff defences). A rotation of:
PG: Paul, Neto
SG: Richardson, Thybulle/Korkmaz
SF: Simmons, Ennis III/Thybulle
PF: Horford, Scott
C: Embiid, Horford/O'Quinn
Is a pretty dangerous squad that's elite defensively (they can go big with the lineup I posted, or go small by playing Thybulle at SF and benching Horford) while mustering enough offence to win playoff games (Embiid as a primary scorer with Paul running the offence isn't anything crazy, but it's still good enough to create reliable offence).

[Who]

I thought Jimmy and Embiid worked well together. Simmons was the problem. He kept mucking up the spacing. Replace Ben Simmons with a third star next to Jimmy and Embiid and Philly would have won the Championship last season - not Toronto.

[celticsclay]

Bill Simmons speculates that Holiday for Ben Simmons makes a lot of sense for both teams, although I feel Pels would probably have to include additional picks.

that is a dumb trade for the Sixers.  Holiday just doesn't seem like the right kind of fit or talent for them to move on from Simmons.

Maybe there’s something to it then. I thought it was bad for NO. Nobody knows what Ingram and ZW can be, but I wouldn’t pair them with a non-shooting PG

Holiday is a crappier version of Butler and we saw last year that Butler and Embiid weren't a great fit (and that was when Redick was around).  You may be right that Simmons isn't a great fit with Ingram and Zion (though I think he'd be fine as he is way better than Lonzo and they seem to make that work ok without Zion), but Simmons has more value than Holiday does.  Now if Holiday was the perfect fit in Philly, maybe you give up the better player for the better fitting one, but Holiday isn't a great fit.  That is a bad trade for the Sixers.  It is also nearly impossible for the trade to happen given Simmons' poison pill provision.

Actually they were one bucket from beating the eventual champions. I thought Butler worked pretty well with Embiid. Better than Simmons and Embiid do.

I'm going from memory, but I recall the advanced metrics on the Embiid/Butler duo weren't that good (or at least as good as other Embiid combinations).  Butler offensively often fills the same spots on the floor that Embiid does and they didn't always get along very well.  Butler wasn't a good enough shooter to really make it work with Embiid.  This was obviously compounded with Simmons who wouldn't be around in that scenario, but I don't think Butler/Embiid really worked all that well.  And Holiday is a much worse overall player than Butler is.  It is just a terrible trade for the Sixers.  I get the idea that Simmons/Embiid isn't a great pairing, but Simmons has far more value than Holiday does.  If the Sixers move on from Simmons, it won't be for a Butler-lite type player.

It feels like there is pretty mixed views of Simmons value around the league from how I have heard Lowe and the guys on the Ringer NBA podcasts. Some see him as a franchise player and perennial all-star, others wonder if he will ever develop. Right now he probably doesn't look like he will make the all-star game. His stats are a very mixed bag. Leads the league in steals and has been great on defense, but his nearly 4 turnovers a game (career high 3.7) offset some of his playmaking. He is also still a complete liability from the line 59% and averaging a career low in points. He shows little to no signs of developing a willingness to shoot from three point line (something has coach has publicly complained about to the media recently) and he is getting 32 million a year for the next 5 years. There are obviously way worse guys making that much money and guys with way less room to groom. However, I would personally rather have guys like Tatum, and Ingram than Simmons.

Also, even if it was a bad value trade so to speak. Does anyone else think the 76ers would win the title this year if they were somehow able to get Holiday for Simmons? I think they would.   

[Moranis]

Bill Simmons speculates that Holiday for Ben Simmons makes a lot of sense for both teams, although I feel Pels would probably have to include additional picks.

that is a dumb trade for the Sixers.  Holiday just doesn't seem like the right kind of fit or talent for them to move on from Simmons.

Maybe there’s something to it then. I thought it was bad for NO. Nobody knows what Ingram and ZW can be, but I wouldn’t pair them with a non-shooting PG

Holiday is a crappier version of Butler and we saw last year that Butler and Embiid weren't a great fit (and that was when Redick was around).  You may be right that Simmons isn't a great fit with Ingram and Zion (though I think he'd be fine as he is way better than Lonzo and they seem to make that work ok without Zion), but Simmons has more value than Holiday does.  Now if Holiday was the perfect fit in Philly, maybe you give up the better player for the better fitting one, but Holiday isn't a great fit.  That is a bad trade for the Sixers.  It is also nearly impossible for the trade to happen given Simmons' poison pill provision.

Actually they were one bucket from beating the eventual champions. I thought Butler worked pretty well with Embiid. Better than Simmons and Embiid do.

I'm going from memory, but I recall the advanced metrics on the Embiid/Butler duo weren't that good (or at least as good as other Embiid combinations).  Butler offensively often fills the same spots on the floor that Embiid does and they didn't always get along very well.  Butler wasn't a good enough shooter to really make it work with Embiid.  This was obviously compounded with Simmons who wouldn't be around in that scenario, but I don't think Butler/Embiid really worked all that well.  And Holiday is a much worse overall player than Butler is.  It is just a terrible trade for the Sixers.  I get the idea that Simmons/Embiid isn't a great pairing, but Simmons has far more value than Holiday does.  If the Sixers move on from Simmons, it won't be for a Butler-lite type player.

It feels like there is pretty mixed views of Simmons value around the league from how I have heard Lowe and the guys on the Ringer NBA podcasts. Some see him as a franchise player and perennial all-star, others wonder if he will ever develop. Right now he probably doesn't look like he will make the all-star game. His stats are a very mixed bag. Leads the league in steals and has been great on defense, but his nearly 4 turnovers a game (career high 3.7) offset some of his playmaking. He is also still a complete liability from the line 59% and averaging a career low in points. He shows little to no signs of developing a willingness to shoot from three point line (something has coach has publicly complained about to the media recently) and he is getting 32 million a year for the next 5 years. There are obviously way worse guys making that much money and guys with way less room to groom. However, I would personally rather have guys like Tatum, and Ingram than Simmons.

Also, even if it was a bad value trade so to speak. Does anyone else think the 76ers would win the title this year if they were somehow able to get Holiday for Simmons? I think they would.

I honestly think they are more likely to win the title with Simmons than Holiday.  He just adds a layer that Holiday doesn't.  Though that doesn't mean the flaws in Simmons you point out aren't real flaws as they are.  I just think his length poses real match-up issues for opposing teams.  And I get Embiid/Simmons aren't a great fit, but I don't think Brown has effectively utilized Simmons at all.  Everything has been designed to go through Embiid on that team, yet the players aren't all great fits around Embiid and Embiid has serious and significant health and fitness issues making doing everything around him far more suspect (then say the Cavs building around Lebron).  Last year against Toronto we saw first hand both the pros and cons to that strategy.  I do think Horford will help some in that regard, but Brown simply hasn't done enough for Simmons.  And I like Brown and think he is a good coach, but I'm really starting to question some of his decision making, especially where Simmons is concerned.

[celticsclay]

Bill Simmons speculates that Holiday for Ben Simmons makes a lot of sense for both teams, although I feel Pels would probably have to include additional picks.

that is a dumb trade for the Sixers.  Holiday just doesn't seem like the right kind of fit or talent for them to move on from Simmons.

Maybe there’s something to it then. I thought it was bad for NO. Nobody knows what Ingram and ZW can be, but I wouldn’t pair them with a non-shooting PG

Holiday is a crappier version of Butler and we saw last year that Butler and Embiid weren't a great fit (and that was when Redick was around).  You may be right that Simmons isn't a great fit with Ingram and Zion (though I think he'd be fine as he is way better than Lonzo and they seem to make that work ok without Zion), but Simmons has more value than Holiday does.  Now if Holiday was the perfect fit in Philly, maybe you give up the better player for the better fitting one, but Holiday isn't a great fit.  That is a bad trade for the Sixers.  It is also nearly impossible for the trade to happen given Simmons' poison pill provision.

Actually they were one bucket from beating the eventual champions. I thought Butler worked pretty well with Embiid. Better than Simmons and Embiid do.

I'm going from memory, but I recall the advanced metrics on the Embiid/Butler duo weren't that good (or at least as good as other Embiid combinations).  Butler offensively often fills the same spots on the floor that Embiid does and they didn't always get along very well.  Butler wasn't a good enough shooter to really make it work with Embiid.  This was obviously compounded with Simmons who wouldn't be around in that scenario, but I don't think Butler/Embiid really worked all that well.  And Holiday is a much worse overall player than Butler is.  It is just a terrible trade for the Sixers.  I get the idea that Simmons/Embiid isn't a great pairing, but Simmons has far more value than Holiday does.  If the Sixers move on from Simmons, it won't be for a Butler-lite type player.

It feels like there is pretty mixed views of Simmons value around the league from how I have heard Lowe and the guys on the Ringer NBA podcasts. Some see him as a franchise player and perennial all-star, others wonder if he will ever develop. Right now he probably doesn't look like he will make the all-star game. His stats are a very mixed bag. Leads the league in steals and has been great on defense, but his nearly 4 turnovers a game (career high 3.7) offset some of his playmaking. He is also still a complete liability from the line 59% and averaging a career low in points. He shows little to no signs of developing a willingness to shoot from three point line (something has coach has publicly complained about to the media recently) and he is getting 32 million a year for the next 5 years. There are obviously way worse guys making that much money and guys with way less room to groom. However, I would personally rather have guys like Tatum, and Ingram than Simmons.

Also, even if it was a bad value trade so to speak. Does anyone else think the 76ers would win the title this year if they were somehow able to get Holiday for Simmons? I think they would.

I honestly think they are more likely to win the title with Simmons than Holiday.  He just adds a layer that Holiday doesn't.  Though that doesn't mean the flaws in Simmons you point out aren't real flaws as they are.  I just think his length poses real match-up issues for opposing teams.  And I get Embiid/Simmons aren't a great fit, but I don't think Brown has effectively utilized Simmons at all.  Everything has been designed to go through Embiid on that team, yet the players aren't all great fits around Embiid and Embiid has serious and significant health and fitness issues making doing everything around him far more suspect (then say the Cavs building around Lebron).  Last year against Toronto we saw first hand both the pros and cons to that strategy.  I do think Horford will help some in that regard, but Brown simply hasn't done enough for Simmons.  And I like Brown and think he is a good coach, but I'm really starting to question some of his decision making, especially where Simmons is concerned.

Would you say that if Simmons could all of a sudden hit 34% from 3 on 5 attempts a game they would also win the title this year? I realize holiday is not a dead-eye shooter, but he is at least a thread at a volume. He also is very very good at creating his own shot off the dribble. I think he would instantly be their best option in a close game down the stretch for creating a bucket. I also think it is a bit easy to underrate holiday right now cause that team has become a complete dumpster fire and all of a sudden even a guy like Reddick doesn't look very good. Last year in the east Holiday would have made the all-star team. He also is not a slouch on defense having made all-defense the last two years.