Kevin Love prefers to be traded to Blazers. Thompson also available

[Moranis]

I am not here for any besmirching of Moses Malone. Especially when his team beat the Lakers one of his MVP years (and took out the team that swept the Celtics).

Dude was a monster and deserved his accolades.

Absolutely.   Also, what he did with that '80-81 Houston squad in the playoffs was rather incredible.

His stretch from around '78-85 is bonkers.

Lots of players had incredible runs, it doesn't make them worthy of an award over players better than them.

Except Moses was in fact the best player in the world for several seasons during that period.  He led the league in rebounding in 6 of 7 years.  He was scoring at a very high level and very efficiently.  He was the best player on one of the most dominant teams in NBA history.  He often led the league in WS, which you know is how much you contribute to actual wins.

In other words, Moses Malone was great.  Just because he hasn't aged as well as Magic/Larry doesn't change the fact that Moses was in fact deserving of winning the award 3 times. 

[Somebody]

I am not here for any besmirching of Moses Malone. Especially when his team beat the Lakers one of his MVP years (and took out the team that swept the Celtics).

Dude was a monster and deserved his accolades.

Absolutely.   Also, what he did with that '80-81 Houston squad in the playoffs was rather incredible.

His stretch from around '78-85 is bonkers.

Lots of players had incredible runs, it doesn't make them worthy of an award over players better than them.

Except Moses was in fact the best player in the world for several seasons during that period.  He led the league in rebounding in 6 of 7 years.  He was scoring at a very high level and very efficiently.  He was the best player on one of the most dominant teams in NBA history.  He often led the league in WS, which you know is how much you contribute to actual wins.

In other words, Moses Malone was great.  Just because he hasn't aged as well as Magic/Larry doesn't change the fact that Moses was in fact deserving of winning the award 3 times.

Except for the fact that he wasn't the best player in the world for any season during that period. He wasn't an elite offensive centrepiece - his passing was nonexistent for a superstar so you really couldn't run an offence through him, which made him was more of a finisher than a creator that his peers (Walton and Kareem) were. His offensive rebounding was amazing, which made him a bit more portable as its off value would hold on any squad, but it wasn't enough to compensate for him being a black hole on offence. His defence was strong but not elite, which doesn't help his case when you consider that Kareem and Walton were excellent rim protectors, giving the latter two an edge in two way impact aside from being better offensive players.

In other words, Moses Malone was great, but not deserving of even one MVP award due to the leviathans who were playing against him at the time. Just because Moses had a great stretch in the history of the NBA doesn't change the fact that the three MVP trophies he won look stranger by the day.

[Somebody]

I am not here for any besmirching of Moses Malone. Especially when his team beat the Lakers one of his MVP years (and took out the team that swept the Celtics).

Dude was a monster and deserved his accolades.

Absolutely.   Also, what he did with that '80-81 Houston squad in the playoffs was rather incredible.

His stretch from around '78-85 is bonkers.

Lots of players had incredible runs, it doesn't make them worthy of an award over players better than them.

Apparently, the MVP voters didn't agree with you there.

Apparently, the voters were unaware of the importance of point differential in a season.

[Donoghus]

I am not here for any besmirching of Moses Malone. Especially when his team beat the Lakers one of his MVP years (and took out the team that swept the Celtics).

Dude was a monster and deserved his accolades.

Absolutely.   Also, what he did with that '80-81 Houston squad in the playoffs was rather incredible.

His stretch from around '78-85 is bonkers.

Lots of players had incredible runs, it doesn't make them worthy of an award over players better than them.

Apparently, the MVP voters didn't agree with you there.

Apparently, the voters were unaware of the importance of point differential in a season.

My guess is it was based on what they were actually seeing in front of them.

[Roy H.]

I am not here for any besmirching of Moses Malone. Especially when his team beat the Lakers one of his MVP years (and took out the team that swept the Celtics).

Dude was a monster and deserved his accolades.

Absolutely.   Also, what he did with that '80-81 Houston squad in the playoffs was rather incredible.

His stretch from around '78-85 is bonkers.

Lots of players had incredible runs, it doesn't make them worthy of an award over players better than them.

Except Moses was in fact the best player in the world for several seasons during that period.  He led the league in rebounding in 6 of 7 years.  He was scoring at a very high level and very efficiently.  He was the best player on one of the most dominant teams in NBA history.  He often led the league in WS, which you know is how much you contribute to actual wins.

In other words, Moses Malone was great.  Just because he hasn't aged as well as Magic/Larry doesn't change the fact that Moses was in fact deserving of winning the award 3 times.

Except for the fact that he wasn't the best player in the world for any season during that period. He wasn't an elite offensive centrepiece - his passing was nonexistent for a superstar so you really couldn't run an offence through him, which made him was more of a finisher than a creator that his peers (Walton and Kareem) were. His offensive rebounding was amazing, which made him a bit more portable as its off value would hold on any squad, but it wasn't enough to compensate for him being a black hole on offence. His defence was strong but elite, which doesn't help his case when you consider that Kareem and Walton were excellent rim protectors, giving the latter two an edge in two way impact aside from being better offensive players.

In other words, Moses Malone was great, but not deserving of even one MVP award due to the leviathans who were playing against him at the time. Just because Moses had a great stretch in the history of the NBA doesn't change the fact that the three MVP trophies he won look stranger by the day.

During his peak around 1982 and 1983, he was probably the best player in the NBA when looking at individual dominance plus team success. 

[Somebody]

I am not here for any besmirching of Moses Malone. Especially when his team beat the Lakers one of his MVP years (and took out the team that swept the Celtics).

Dude was a monster and deserved his accolades.

Absolutely.   Also, what he did with that '80-81 Houston squad in the playoffs was rather incredible.

His stretch from around '78-85 is bonkers.

Lots of players had incredible runs, it doesn't make them worthy of an award over players better than them.

Apparently, the MVP voters didn't agree with you there.

Apparently, the voters were unaware of the importance of point differential in a season.

My guess is it was based on what they were actually seeing in front of them.

My guess is it was based on what they could only see - instead of what could be actually seen if they didn't solely focus on flashy isolation scoring, offensive rebounding and shotblocking.

[Somebody]

I am not here for any besmirching of Moses Malone. Especially when his team beat the Lakers one of his MVP years (and took out the team that swept the Celtics).

Dude was a monster and deserved his accolades.

Absolutely.   Also, what he did with that '80-81 Houston squad in the playoffs was rather incredible.

His stretch from around '78-85 is bonkers.

Lots of players had incredible runs, it doesn't make them worthy of an award over players better than them.

Except Moses was in fact the best player in the world for several seasons during that period.  He led the league in rebounding in 6 of 7 years.  He was scoring at a very high level and very efficiently.  He was the best player on one of the most dominant teams in NBA history.  He often led the league in WS, which you know is how much you contribute to actual wins.

In other words, Moses Malone was great.  Just because he hasn't aged as well as Magic/Larry doesn't change the fact that Moses was in fact deserving of winning the award 3 times.

Except for the fact that he wasn't the best player in the world for any season during that period. He wasn't an elite offensive centrepiece - his passing was nonexistent for a superstar so you really couldn't run an offence through him, which made him was more of a finisher than a creator that his peers (Walton and Kareem) were. His offensive rebounding was amazing, which made him a bit more portable as its off value would hold on any squad, but it wasn't enough to compensate for him being a black hole on offence. His defence was strong but elite, which doesn't help his case when you consider that Kareem and Walton were excellent rim protectors, giving the latter two an edge in two way impact aside from being better offensive players.

In other words, Moses Malone was great, but not deserving of even one MVP award due to the leviathans who were playing against him at the time. Just because Moses had a great stretch in the history of the NBA doesn't change the fact that the three MVP trophies he won look stranger by the day.

During his peak around 1982 and 1983, he was probably the best player in the NBA when looking at individual dominance plus team success.

The team success didn't come because he was the best player in the NBA though (although he certainly was in the realm of being an MVP candidate), it was because he hopped on a loaded Philadelphia club that had reached the finals two of the prior three seasons in 1983 and formed the Golden State Globetrotters of that era. I do give him credit for scaling on that squad - note my comment about his offensive rebounding providing nice off-ball value. He just wasn't better than Kareem in the 70s and Bird in the 80s (even when Bird stagnated for a few years after his rookie season before hitting his stride in 84).

[bdm860]

Walton didn't even play in 2 of Malone's 3 MVP seasons ('79 and '82).  And only played 33 games in the other ('83).  Moses wasn't more valuable than that?

[Monkhouse]

Cavs are currently asking for 1st round pick for Love, but teams are telling the Cavs they want to be given a 1st round pick for Love's contract.

No clue why the Cavs thought anyone is going to pander up anything of value for Love... His contract is not that good, and he doesn't warrant being great enough to be covering about 24% of your cap space.

[Fafnir]

Cavs are currently asking for 1st round pick for Love, but teams are telling the Cavs they want to be given a 1st round pick for Love's contract.

No clue why the Cavs thought anyone is going to pander up anything of value for Love... His contract is not that good, and he doesn't warrant being great enough to be covering about 24% of your cap space.

Cavs are going to have to accept they cannot get value back unless they are eating additional bad salary that's worse than Love's.

[Somebody]

Walton didn't even play in 2 of Malone's 3 MVP seasons ('79 and '82).  And only played 33 games in the other ('83).  Moses wasn't more valuable than that?

I meant during the 70s before Walton was injured - someone brought up Moses' stretch from the mid-late 70s to the early-mid 80s. I think Moses was a top 5 player in '82 and '83 with an argument as #2, but imo the #1 player during those two years was a certain young forward playing for the Boston Celtics by quite a margin.

[bdm860]

Cavs are currently asking for 1st round pick for Love, but teams are telling the Cavs they want to be given a 1st round pick for Love's contract.

No clue why the Cavs thought anyone is going to pander up anything of value for Love... His contract is not that good, and he doesn't warrant being great enough to be covering about 24% of your cap space.

Cavs are going to have to accept they cannot get value back unless they are eating additional bad salary that's worse than Love's.

What does Love even look like in 2-3 years?  I struggle picturing how his game is going to age.

A better version of Sam Perkins?
Sheed without the D?

[Moranis]

Walton didn't even play in 2 of Malone's 3 MVP seasons ('79 and '82).  And only played 33 games in the other ('83).  Moses wasn't more valuable than that?

I meant during the 70s before Walton was injured - someone brought up Moses' stretch from the mid-late 70s to the early-mid 80s. I think Moses was a top 5 player in '82 and '83 with an argument as #2, but imo the #1 player during those two years was a certain young forward playing for the Boston Celtics by quite a margin.

Bird was obviously a better passer than Moses, but here are Bird's and Moses' stats during Moses' 2 MVP seasons in the early 80's.

Moses 82
31.1 p, 14.7 r, 1.8 a, 0.9 s, 1.5 b, 3.6 t, 2.6 f, 57.6 TS%, WS 15.4, PER 26.8, started 81 games and played 42 mpg

Bird 82
22.9 p, 10.9 r, 5.8 a, 1.9 s, 0.9 b, 3.3 t, 3.2 f, 55.7 TS%, WS 12.5, PER 22.6, started 58 of 77 games and played 38 mpg

Moses 83
24.5 p, 15.3 r, 1.3 a, 1.1 s, 2.0 b, 3.4 t, 2.6 f, 57.8 TS%, WS 15.1, PER 25.1, started 78 games and played 37.5 mpg

Bird 83
23.6 p, 11.0 r, 5.8 a, 1.9 s, 0.9 b, 3.0 t, 2.5 f, 56.1 TS%, WS 14.0, PER 24.1, started 79 games and played 37.1 mpg


I'm sorry, Moses was just flat out better than Bird those 2 years.  Frankly, it wasn't all that close. 

[Somebody]

Walton didn't even play in 2 of Malone's 3 MVP seasons ('79 and '82).  And only played 33 games in the other ('83).  Moses wasn't more valuable than that?

I meant during the 70s before Walton was injured - someone brought up Moses' stretch from the mid-late 70s to the early-mid 80s. I think Moses was a top 5 player in '82 and '83 with an argument as #2, but imo the #1 player during those two years was a certain young forward playing for the Boston Celtics by quite a margin.

Bird was obviously a better passer than Moses, but here are Bird's and Moses' stats during Moses' 2 MVP seasons in the early 80's.

Moses 82
31.1 p, 14.7 r, 1.8 a, 0.9 s, 1.5 b, 3.6 t, 2.6 f, 57.6 TS%, WS 15.4, PER 26.8, started 81 games and played 42 mpg

Bird 82
22.9 p, 10.9 r, 5.8 a, 1.9 s, 0.9 b, 3.3 t, 3.2 f, 55.7 TS%, WS 12.5, PER 22.6, started 58 of 77 games and played 38 mpg

Moses 83
24.5 p, 15.3 r, 1.3 a, 1.1 s, 2.0 b, 3.4 t, 2.6 f, 57.8 TS%, WS 15.1, PER 25.1, started 78 games and played 37.5 mpg

Bird 83
23.6 p, 11.0 r, 5.8 a, 1.9 s, 0.9 b, 3.0 t, 2.5 f, 56.1 TS%, WS 14.0, PER 24.1, started 79 games and played 37.1 mpg


I'm sorry, Moses was just flat out better than Bird those 2 years.  Frankly, it wasn't all that close.

I'm sorry, box stats don't tell the whole story during those 2 years. Bird was quite a bit better, and frankly it wasn't all that close.

[celticsclay]

Walton didn't even play in 2 of Malone's 3 MVP seasons ('79 and '82).  And only played 33 games in the other ('83).  Moses wasn't more valuable than that?

I meant during the 70s before Walton was injured - someone brought up Moses' stretch from the mid-late 70s to the early-mid 80s. I think Moses was a top 5 player in '82 and '83 with an argument as #2, but imo the #1 player during those two years was a certain young forward playing for the Boston Celtics by quite a margin.

Bird was obviously a better passer than Moses, but here are Bird's and Moses' stats during Moses' 2 MVP seasons in the early 80's.

Moses 82
31.1 p, 14.7 r, 1.8 a, 0.9 s, 1.5 b, 3.6 t, 2.6 f, 57.6 TS%, WS 15.4, PER 26.8, started 81 games and played 42 mpg

Bird 82
22.9 p, 10.9 r, 5.8 a, 1.9 s, 0.9 b, 3.3 t, 3.2 f, 55.7 TS%, WS 12.5, PER 22.6, started 58 of 77 games and played 38 mpg

Moses 83
24.5 p, 15.3 r, 1.3 a, 1.1 s, 2.0 b, 3.4 t, 2.6 f, 57.8 TS%, WS 15.1, PER 25.1, started 78 games and played 37.5 mpg

Bird 83
23.6 p, 11.0 r, 5.8 a, 1.9 s, 0.9 b, 3.0 t, 2.5 f, 56.1 TS%, WS 14.0, PER 24.1, started 79 games and played 37.1 mpg


I'm sorry, Moses was just flat out better than Bird those 2 years.  Frankly, it wasn't all that close.

I'm sorry, box stats don't tell the whole story during those 2 years. Bird was quite a bit better, and frankly it wasn't all that close.

I’m not going to say who clearly was better cause I don’t really know enough about those 82 and 83 seasons (Would you have both been little kids or not born also?). However I will say just plopping down some stats and saying it wasn’t close on either side is a bit silly. You could do that to say Karl Anthony towns was better in his second season than Tim Duncan ever was.