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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Jiri Welsch on November 24, 2017, 05:51:00 PM

Title: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Jiri Welsch on November 24, 2017, 05:51:00 PM
Anyone want to be a total mensch and quote the ESPN Insider article, besides the following:

Quote
Brown ranks second on the Celtics in points, minutes, rebounds and 3-pointers made per game while sitting fourth in the NBA in scoring average (16.1) among players under 22 years old. He has had an excellent start to his sophomore season, which is something most statistical models would not have predicted when the Celtics drafted Brown third overall in 2016 after a single year at California.

How has he done it, will it last, and what does this strong start mean for his NBA ceiling?

Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: CelticsElite on November 24, 2017, 05:52:51 PM
All star potential. Talent isn’t all there yet but he has the tools, great coaching, winning environment, playoff experience, and is set up nicely to become an all star.  His shot has become respectable. His handles could use a bit of work but not terrible. Other small things to fix
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Jiri Welsch on November 24, 2017, 05:54:01 PM
All star potential. Talent isn’t all there yet but he has the tools, great coaching, winning environment, playoff experience, and is set up nicely to become an all star.  His shot has become respectable. His handles could use a bit of work but not terrible. Other small things to fix

TP, thanks. I think if Brown could make 60% of his shots at the rim this year he’d be averaging at least 18 PPG
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Neurotic Guy on November 24, 2017, 06:13:22 PM
All star potential. Talent isn’t all there yet but he has the tools, great coaching, winning environment, playoff experience, and is set up nicely to become an all star.  His shot has become respectable. His handles could use a bit of work but not terrible. Other small things to fix

TP, thanks. I think if Brown could make 60% of his shots at the rim this year he’d be averaging at least 18 PPG

Add a point per game if his FT% were at 80%.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Jiri Welsch on November 24, 2017, 06:20:20 PM
Are these all things you think can improve over time? It’s bizarre to me that Marcus Smart can be a dead-eye FT shooter but a bad jump shooter. Yet Brown has a decent stroke and can’t make a FT.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Boris Badenov on November 24, 2017, 06:33:34 PM

I think he's got a better chance of making multiple All-Defense teams than multiple All-Star teams.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: chiken Green on November 24, 2017, 06:49:26 PM
He definitely has the physical tools and the Mindset.. And he seems to be almost a year ahead of schedule..  He just needs to continue putting it together..
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: dreamgreen on November 24, 2017, 07:05:28 PM
He could become a great all around player his defense has been very good and he seems to be very competitive.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: footey on November 24, 2017, 07:07:27 PM
The article said that Stevens system enabled Brown to outperform the relatively low projections that stat models predicted.

Also said it would be difficult for him to make an all star team ahead of Irving, Hayward or even Tatum.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Darío SpanishFan on November 24, 2017, 07:23:36 PM
He will be a good FT shooter when he stops thinking about FT shooting too much and let them flow naturally, as he's doing with his jumpers.

And of course he has all-star talent and determination. The question is if he will keep developing it as the season/years go by.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: nickagneta on November 24, 2017, 07:24:46 PM
I see Jimmy Butler with a 3 point shot. That's not only All-Star but All-NBA(not necessarily 1st team). But thats still a few years away. His intelligence, work ethic and drive to be better make me believe he will take another big jump forward in a year or two.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on November 24, 2017, 07:24:57 PM
I think so .  Even if his skills need honing . Seems  He has the mental drive that will not allow himself to be anything but the best version of himself.

He will force himself to that level .  He has true high expectations.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Phantom255x on November 24, 2017, 07:30:18 PM
To me, Jaylen's ceiling is 23-25 PPG scorer, and a guy who can rack 5-6 assists and 7-8 rebounds a game. But best of all, he will also be an ELITE two-way player.

Sort of like Jimmy Butler except with slightly better 3 pt. shooting and more athleticism, if that makes sense.

As for his likelihood for making an All Star game this year, I think as of now, he won't, but if he can increase his scoring average a tick, up to 18-20 PPG, and maintain his 7 rebounds/game, he has a decent shot.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Eddie20 on November 24, 2017, 07:41:15 PM
To me, Jaylen's ceiling is 23-25 PPG scorer, and a guy who can rack 5-6 assists and 7-8 rebounds a game. But best of all, he will also be an ELITE two-way player.

Not the assists. He's a pretty poor passer.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Phantom255x on November 24, 2017, 07:43:22 PM
To me, Jaylen's ceiling is 23-25 PPG scorer, and a guy who can rack 5-6 assists and 7-8 rebounds a game. But best of all, he will also be an ELITE two-way player.

Not the assists. He's a pretty poor passer.

Well, that's why I call it his "ceiling".

I compare Jaylen a lot to Jimmy Buckets, and even with Butler, his passing was somewhat poor to begin with and he only averaged like 2 assists/game his first three years. But his passing improved and now he averages like 4-6 assists/game.

I agree though, and do think there's clearly room for improvement for Jaylen in that department.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Eddie20 on November 24, 2017, 07:53:53 PM
To me, Jaylen's ceiling is 23-25 PPG scorer, and a guy who can rack 5-6 assists and 7-8 rebounds a game. But best of all, he will also be an ELITE two-way player.

Not the assists. He's a pretty poor passer.

Well, that's why I call it his "ceiling".

I compare Jaylen a lot to Jimmy Buckets, and even with Butler, his passing was somewhat poor to begin with and he only averaged like 2 assists/game his first three years. But his passing improved and now he averages like 4-6 assists/game.

I agree though, and do think there's clearly room for improvement for Jaylen in that department.

I don't remember Butler in his early years, but he could've been a good passer and it was only the lack of usage that was limiting those numbers. Brown just has a poor feel as a passer. Not sure why he's often the inbound passer. That's usually an adventure.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on November 24, 2017, 08:05:01 PM
To me, Jaylen's ceiling is 23-25 PPG scorer, and a guy who can rack 5-6 assists and 7-8 rebounds a game. But best of all, he will also be an ELITE two-way player.

Not the assists. He's a pretty poor passer.

Well, that's why I call it his "ceiling".

I compare Jaylen a lot to Jimmy Buckets, and even with Butler, his passing was somewhat poor to begin with and he only averaged like 2 assists/game his first three years. But his passing improved and now he averages like 4-6 assists/game.

I agree though, and do think there's clearly room for improvement for Jaylen in that department.

I don't remember Butler in his early years, but he could've been a good passer and it was only the lack of usage that was limiting those numbers. Brown just has a poor feel as a passer. Not sure why he's often the inbound passer. That's usually an adventure.

He's not being asked to make passes in our system yet. He's not running the pick-and-roll at all. Go back and look at his college stats and highlights and it becomes obvious that he has a good feel for basic passes.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Phantom255x on November 24, 2017, 08:10:34 PM
To me, Jaylen's ceiling is 23-25 PPG scorer, and a guy who can rack 5-6 assists and 7-8 rebounds a game. But best of all, he will also be an ELITE two-way player.

Not the assists. He's a pretty poor passer.

Well, that's why I call it his "ceiling".

I compare Jaylen a lot to Jimmy Buckets, and even with Butler, his passing was somewhat poor to begin with and he only averaged like 2 assists/game his first three years. But his passing improved and now he averages like 4-6 assists/game.

I agree though, and do think there's clearly room for improvement for Jaylen in that department.

I don't remember Butler in his early years, but he could've been a good passer and it was only the lack of usage that was limiting those numbers. Brown just has a poor feel as a passer. Not sure why he's often the inbound passer. That's usually an adventure.

He's not being asked to make passes in our system yet. He's not running the pick-and-roll at all. Go back and look at his college stats and highlights and it becomes obvious that he has a good feel for basic passes.

Yep, TPs to you both. Both are very true statements.

Either way, excited to see Brown's growth!  8)
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Eddie20 on November 24, 2017, 08:10:45 PM
To me, Jaylen's ceiling is 23-25 PPG scorer, and a guy who can rack 5-6 assists and 7-8 rebounds a game. But best of all, he will also be an ELITE two-way player.

Not the assists. He's a pretty poor passer.

Well, that's why I call it his "ceiling".

I compare Jaylen a lot to Jimmy Buckets, and even with Butler, his passing was somewhat poor to begin with and he only averaged like 2 assists/game his first three years. But his passing improved and now he averages like 4-6 assists/game.

I agree though, and do think there's clearly room for improvement for Jaylen in that department.

I don't remember Butler in his early years, but he could've been a good passer and it was only the lack of usage that was limiting those numbers. Brown just has a poor feel as a passer. Not sure why he's often the inbound passer. That's usually an adventure.

He's not being asked to make passes in our system yet. He's not running the pick-and-roll at all. Go back and look at his college stats and highlights and it becomes obvious that he has a good feel for basic passes.

This is from Mike Schmitz in the article the OP is alluding to...

Quote
Brown has never been the best decision-maker or most instinctual passer, so the lack of spacing led to far too many wild turnovers, charges or forced shots at the rim. He was regularly in foul trouble, and his poor 2-point percentage and assist-to-turnover ratio were largely the product of the system and lack of spacing, along with Brown's lack of overall polish and inconsistent approach.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Neurotic Guy on November 24, 2017, 08:10:50 PM
Wrong Thread
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: cons on November 24, 2017, 08:15:37 PM
I don't see why someone who's the #3 pick and having a very good second year at a very young age wouldn't be expected to develop into an all star. Isn't that kind of the assumption w drafting someone so high ?
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: ManUp on November 24, 2017, 08:43:19 PM
I see the potential for a more Athletic Ron Artest.

Am I crazy?
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: nickagneta on November 24, 2017, 08:57:08 PM
I see the potential for a more Athletic Ron Artest.

Am I crazy?
A more athletic SANE Ron Artest.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: vjcsmoke on November 25, 2017, 12:48:00 AM
The potential to be an all-star?  Yes.  His physical tools are elite.  At times he can play suffocating defense and turn that into quick points as we saw against the warriors and other teams during the streak.

Brown also has developed a nice 3 point stroke, hovering around 40% this season.  Does he need to improve FT shooting, yes, but I feel that's more of a matter of getting into a good routine and maintaining concentration.  His shooting stroke looks fundamentally sound.  Nothing whacky about it like a Lonzo Ball for instance.

Give it time.  I'm expecting 15-18ppg from Brown this season.  Next season, he could easily step into the 20+ ppg range and a borderline all-star as he grows into his capabilities and his body.  Remember he's still just age 21 this season.

Also note that there are not a lot of dominant players at the SG position in the East, so Brown could easily claim this position in probably his 3rd year in the NBA.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on November 25, 2017, 01:08:33 AM
The potential to be an all-star?  Yes.  His physical tools are elite.  At times he can play suffocating defense and turn that into quick points as we saw against the warriors and other teams during the streak.

Brown also has developed a nice 3 point stroke, hovering around 40% this season.  Does he need to improve FT shooting, yes, but I feel that's more of a matter of getting into a good routine and maintaining concentration.  His shooting stroke looks fundamentally sound.  Nothing whacky about it like a Lonzo Ball for instance.

Give it time.  I'm expecting 15-18ppg from Brown this season.  Next season, he could easily step into the 20+ ppg range and a borderline all-star as he grows into his capabilities and his body.  Remember he's still just age 21 this season.

Also note that there are not a lot of dominant players at the SG position in the East, so Brown could easily claim this position in probably his 3rd year in the NBA.

Agree with basically all of this. 
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on November 25, 2017, 01:17:30 AM
The potential to be an all-star?  Yes.  His physical tools are elite.  At times he can play suffocating defense and turn that into quick points as we saw against the warriors and other teams during the streak.

Brown also has developed a nice 3 point stroke, hovering around 40% this season.  Does he need to improve FT shooting, yes, but I feel that's more of a matter of getting into a good routine and maintaining concentration.  His shooting stroke looks fundamentally sound.  Nothing whacky about it like a Lonzo Ball for instance.

Give it time.  I'm expecting 15-18ppg from Brown this season.  Next season, he could easily step into the 20+ ppg range and a borderline all-star as he grows into his capabilities and his body.  Remember he's still just age 21 this season.

Also note that there are not a lot of dominant players at the SG position in the East, so Brown could easily claim this position in probably his 3rd year in the NBA.
After Beal and Derozan there isn't much at the 2 in the East.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: chambers on November 25, 2017, 01:54:38 AM
At age 21 is there any player that projects closer to being at least a Jimmy Butler level All Star?

This kid is 6 months younger than Ben Simmons and i am hoping for a kawahi Leonard impact level guy.
Guards the best players in the world for 40 mins a gameband scores an efficient 23-25ppg.
Dudes got all the physical and mental tools to be that guy.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Greyman on November 25, 2017, 03:03:28 AM
One of the main reasons, after Kyrie, why the Celtics are top of the East after losing Hayward is Brown. He has stood up and shown a lot of character from the start. He has overcome personal loss to maintain his impact. He is smart, as shown be his ability to play in the system. People give due credit to the system but you still need players who can make the right decision.

Sorry, started ranting. Yes he can be an All Star based on what we have seen this season. Maybe not this season (though not totally out of the question) but sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: __ramonezy__ on November 25, 2017, 04:10:41 AM
I see Scottie Pippen in Jaylen's game. The type of game that will thrive in being a great, all-round player but will require a more dominant offensive partner to thrive. I don't see his game evolving to the point that he gets constant double teams and his stats remain impressive... luckily for him I'm seeing a future with Kyrie, Tatum and Horford, so he'll be fine as second option.

Definitely AllStar talent with Hall of Fame potential... if he plays on the right teams
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 25, 2017, 07:43:23 AM
He certainly has All-Star talent and athletic ability.   He only has one year of NBA experience under his belt.  So I do not think we are at his ceiling.   He improved aspects of his game quite a bit from last year.   I don't cringe as much when he dribbles or shoots a three, now.   That in itself, is a great metric that he demonstrates that he will continue to improve year to year and add things to his game.

              2017        2016
3p%       41.5%     37.1%
Points      15.9        8.5
Rebounds 6.3         3.5

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brownja02.html

So he has improved some, in fact, it is a nice little leap.   He should continue to do so provided he maintains his work ethic.   My son and I harbor hope that Tatum will make the same kind of leap next year and if he does look out.  Note that this does not even take into account Jaylen's defense which is superb most of the time.

The trouble is, that he plays a position loaded with talent and athletic ability.   That makes it hard to make a team when you're young.  But I maintain he has the talent to make the team someday.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Celtics17 on November 25, 2017, 08:03:31 AM
I live in the Midwest and don't get to see Jaylen play as much as i would like but from what I have seen he definitely has All Star potential. His defense is very good and with his athletic abilities he has the potential to be a star!

For me, the question is not really if he has All Star potential but more if he has All Time potential? The guy is not that far from being a dominant player right now. His offense needs to improve some but he most definitely has the tools. Someone once said that 'you can't teach height', well, you can't teach a 40 inch vertical either.

I really do think he has the potential to be an All Time great but time will tell.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on November 25, 2017, 08:13:18 AM
I genuinely believe he's already better than Kyrina.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on November 25, 2017, 09:05:03 AM
I genuinely believe he's already better than Kyrina.
I  think he is probably better than Kyrie at a lot of things.

Basketball  is not one of those things.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on November 25, 2017, 09:08:54 AM
I genuinely believe he's already better than Kyrina.

Oh hey tarheelsxxiii.  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Celtics4ever on November 25, 2017, 11:37:06 AM
Quote
I  think he is probably better than Kyrie at a lot of things

My guess is hitting his head on doors and he is a better dunker.
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: coco on November 25, 2017, 11:47:34 AM
I am pleasantly surprised by KBrown evolution as a player and as a person.
I am hoping he becomes as good a KLeonard(Spurs).

All Star Talent? you bet.  If not now, very soon.....
Title: Re: Does Jaylen Brown Have All-Star Talent?
Post by: Phantom255x on November 25, 2017, 11:50:01 AM
I am pleasantly surprised by KBrown evolution as a player and as a person.
I am hoping he becomes as good a KLeonard(Spurs).

All Star Talent? you bet.  If not now, very soon.....

He definitely has the tools to grow into a Kawhi Leonard-like player for the C's.  8)