Kawhi Leonard (Merged Threads)

[tazzmaniac]

It was reported months ago that Kawhi was upset that lesser players get bigger shoe deals than he does.  So, he wants exposure.

Under those circumstances, LA and NYK make sense, even if I'd argue that winning is the best exposure.

It has nothing to do with city with Leonard, it is him.  He is just a boring quiet player.  Sure, he probably gets a bigger deal in NY or LA, but he still won't get as big as he could because of his personality.  Westbrook has done just fine in Oklahoma City.  James did just fine in Cleveland.  etc.

It doesn't matter if it is actually true, it matters if Leonard thinks it is true. And it really seems like he does.

Weren't you one of the ones complaining about all the Sixers hype at the end of the season?    Imagine the hype if Kawhi goes there.  The Sixers finished 3rd in NBA merchandise sales last season behind GSW and the Cavs.  Kawhi wouldn't have any problem getting a top shoe deal. 
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23214746/philadelphia-76ers-finish-3rd-nba-merchandise-sales-golden-state-warriors-cleveland-cavaliers

[Phantom255x]

So I leave for an hour and come back thinking there's good discussion going on.

Nope.

I see LarBrd throwing his Philly pride around here   

You know if this was the other way around (switched teams, same player) LarBrd would be praising Jaylen and calling Fultz a bust 

Also Fultz + 10 + Covington is definitely beatable. Fultz can be a piece but there's no way RIGHT NOW he can be a primary piece in a trade for a star. 

[LarBrd33]

I think many people have independently looked at the Sixers roster and came up with the same no-brainer trade:   Covington + Fultz + #10 for Kawhi.   Gonna be tough to beat that.

Jaylen Brown and a Chipotle coupon would be a far better deal for Spurs.

OOo... do you think we could get Fultz for Jaylen?  That's intriguing.

Kyrie for Kawhi.  Brown for Fultz.  Send it in.

How many minutes did "elite prospect" Futz play in the 1st round? How about against us?

It's hard to get a real rise out of Celtics fans when you don't have much substance.

19 year old Fult per-36:  14.2 points, 7.5 assists, 6.1 rebounds, 1.7 steals
19 year old Brown per-36:  0 points, 0 assists, 0 rebounds, 0 steals

Brown didn't enter the league until he was 20 and put up averages of 6.6 points, 2.8 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 0.4 steals... and he averaged 12 minutes in the playoffs with multiple DNPs.

How confident are you that Fultz next year (when he's the same age as Brown's rookie season) will be just as forgettable? 

How about in two seasons when Fultz is the same age as Brown this year... in which Brown put up numbers nearly identical to 2nd year Michael Beasley and just a hair below 2nd year Jeff Green?

I'm a fan of Brown.  Most likely he peaks out as a fringe star.  Fultz had a very bizarre rookie season, but it's too early to give up on him. 

Neither team would trade Fultz for Brown so it's a moot point.   Boston might move Brown in a package for Kawhi, but it would be expensive and it's not really possible currently given our salaries.  If Fultz + Convington + #10 is on the table this week, it's gonna be tough to beat it.

During the 2017 playoffs Brown was 20 yeard old, same age as Fultz was during the 2018 playoffs. So let's compare numbers

2017 playoffs in the first round of the Chicago series when Brown got 1 minute in Game 3, half a minute in Game 4 and a DNP in Game 5, he was 20 years and 180 days old.

2018 playoffs during the 1st round when Fultz similarly got 4 minutes in Game 3 and a DNP in Game 4, he was 19 years and 325 days old.  Still over a month away from turning 20. 

Brown was 20 years old for the entirety of his rookie season (20 years old opening night.  20 years old when his team was eliminated).
Fultz was 19 yers old for the entirety of his rookie season (19 years old on opening night.  19 years old when his team was eliminated).

Fultz obviously had a bizarre rookie season where he played 14 games, because of a broken shot.  That said, are you giving up on his entire career over it?  All things considered, next season will be his true rookie season when he's the same age Jaylen Brown was during his forgettable rookie season.  Think he can average more than the 6 points Brown averaged?

[Eddie20]

So I leave for an hour and come back thinking there's good discussion going on.

Nope.

I see LarBrd throwing his Philly pride around here   

You know if this was the other way around (switched teams, same player) LarBrd would be praising Jaylen and calling Fultz a bust 

Also Fultz + 10 + Covington is definitely beatable. Fultz can be a piece but there's no way RIGHT NOW he can be a primary piece in a trade for a star.

Exactly right. It's always sunny in Philadelphia.

I feel bad for the guy, he's clearly lost his fastball and is relying on a bunch of off-speed stuff that has no movement. So easy to read now. He's clearly not the same guy he was before his retirement. He probably should've just stayed retired.

[LarBrd33]

I think many people have independently looked at the Sixers roster and came up with the same no-brainer trade:   Covington + Fultz + #10 for Kawhi.   Gonna be tough to beat that.

Jaylen Brown and a Chipotle coupon would be a far better deal for Spurs.

OOo... do you think we could get Fultz for Jaylen?  That's intriguing.

Kyrie for Kawhi.  Brown for Fultz.  Send it in.

How many minutes did "elite prospect" Futz play in the 1st round? How about against us?

It's hard to get a real rise out of Celtics fans when you don't have much substance.

19 year old Fult per-36:  14.2 points, 7.5 assists, 6.1 rebounds, 1.7 steals
19 year old Brown per-36:  0 points, 0 assists, 0 rebounds, 0 steals

Brown didn't enter the league until he was 20 and put up averages of 6.6 points, 2.8 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 0.4 steals... and he averaged 12 minutes in the playoffs with multiple DNPs.

How confident are you that Fultz next year (when he's the same age as Brown's rookie season) will be just as forgettable? 

How about in two seasons when Fultz is the same age as Brown this year... in which Brown put up numbers nearly identical to 2nd year Michael Beasley and just a hair below 2nd year Jeff Green?

I'm a fan of Brown.  Most likely he peaks out as a fringe star.  Fultz had a very bizarre rookie season, but it's too early to give up on him. 

Neither team would trade Fultz for Brown so it's a moot point.   Boston might move Brown in a package for Kawhi, but it would be expensive and it's not really possible currently given our salaries.  If Fultz + Convington + #10 is on the table this week, it's gonna be tough to beat it.

Thanks for the laugh LaBrd33. I missed your intuitive posts and excellent writing, but your 76ers fanboyism? Absolutely not.

I like that you guys consider the act of not giving up on a 19 year old Markelle Fultz "76er fanboyism" when this time last year every [dang] one of you was losing your minds over giving up the Fultz pick to trade down to #3.  I was totally on board with trading down.  I trust Ainge.  Go back 1 year ago and you'll see a bunch of suicidal Celtic fans arguing with me when I claimed I genuinely believed Boston wouldn't have done the deal unless they honestly felt Tatum was equal/better than Fultz/Ball.

His shot is straight-up broken and that's a massive problem.  He's still an elite prospect.

What does my comment have to do with the above? My point is Brown is a better prospect than Fultz right now. Ask any GM who they would take.... A PG/SG combo guard that lacks a shot in today's NBA is like bringing in Roy Hibbert in today's NBA.

I'm not sure Brown is a better prospect than Fultz right now.  I get why you could make that conclusion, though.  Clearly, 21 year old Brown played better than 19 year old Fultz.  But I can't confidently say 23 year old Brown will be better than 23 year old Fultz.

I remember you being really confident in Okafor and Noel too. When it comes to all things Sixers your opinion is only as valuable as your track record.

Similarly, if we were talking about Okafor after his rookie season (in which he averaged 17 points, 7 rebounds, and 2 blocks) or Noel after his rookie season (in which he averaged 2 steals and 2 blocks), they would both have made for valuable centerpieces in a trade for Kawhi Leonard.

Clearly both have ended up busts.  Maybe that happens with Fultz as well.  That's beyond the point.

My point is that Philly can at this very moment offer up Covington + Fultz + #10.  They can make that offer literally this week.  It works financially. 

Beyond giving up an established star (the ones here that want to dump Kyrie), I don't see how Boston can outbid that.  Even if we were to include Brown (who may or may not be an equal asset to Fultz), Boston would struggle to make salaries match. 

[Phantom255x]

So I leave for an hour and come back thinking there's good discussion going on.

Nope.

I see LarBrd throwing his Philly pride around here   

You know if this was the other way around (switched teams, same player) LarBrd would be praising Jaylen and calling Fultz a bust 

Also Fultz + 10 + Covington is definitely beatable. Fultz can be a piece but there's no way RIGHT NOW he can be a primary piece in a trade for a star.

Exactly right. It's always sunny in Philadelphia.

I feel bad for the guy, he's clearly lost his fastball and is relying on a bunch of off-speed stuff that has no movement. So easy to read now. He's clearly not the same guy he was before his retirement. He probably should've just stayed retired.

I still can't believe what I read recently from him.

"Healthy Celtics (w/o losing a single asset) + Lebron still not enough to beat Golden State" LOL. But he'd tell you healthy Sixers + Lebron dominates Golden State in 5 or 6.

Anyways, I think the Clippers could actually make a good push. #12 + #13 + Harris + Beverley is a pretty good offer overall IMO.

[celticsclay]

It was reported months ago that Kawhi was upset that lesser players get bigger shoe deals than he does.  So, he wants exposure.

Under those circumstances, LA and NYK make sense, even if I'd argue that winning is the best exposure.

It has nothing to do with city with Leonard, it is him.  He is just a boring quiet player.  Sure, he probably gets a bigger deal in NY or LA, but he still won't get as big as he could because of his personality.  Westbrook has done just fine in Oklahoma City.  James did just fine in Cleveland.  etc.

It doesn't matter if it is actually true, it matters if Leonard thinks it is true. And it really seems like he does.

Weren't you one of the ones complaining about all the Sixers hype at the end of the season?    Imagine the hype if Kawhi goes there.  The Sixers finished 3rd in NBA merchandise sales last season behind GSW and the Cavs.  Kawhi wouldn't have any problem getting a top shoe deal. 
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23214746/philadelphia-76ers-finish-3rd-nba-merchandise-sales-golden-state-warriors-cleveland-cavaliers

I was complaining about it on this board. To be honest, you specifically as one of the people. You have done outlandish defense and hype of the 76ers on this board for years. Ironic you tried to chime in with this again. I actually really liked Simmons and Embiid at one point, but it has become a lot harder to enjoy them cause of posters that behave the way you do on this forum. On the flip side I was always very down on Okafor and people on here blasted me for that at the time.

[LarBrd33]

So I leave for an hour and come back thinking there's good discussion going on.

Nope.

I see LarBrd throwing his Philly pride around here   

You know if this was the other way around (switched teams, same player) LarBrd would be praising Jaylen and calling Fultz a bust 

Also Fultz + 10 + Covington is definitely beatable. Fultz can be a piece but there's no way RIGHT NOW he can be a primary piece in a trade for a star.

Exactly right. It's always sunny in Philadelphia.

I feel bad for the guy, he's clearly lost his fastball and is relying on a bunch of off-speed stuff that has no movement. So easy to read now. He's clearly not the same guy he was before his retirement. He probably should've just stayed retired.

I still can't believe what I read recently from him.

"Healthy Celtics (w/o losing a single asset) + Lebron still not enough to beat Golden State" LOL. But he'd tell you healthy Sixers + Lebron dominates Golden State in 5 or 6.

Anyways, I think the Clippers could actually make a good push. #12 + #13 + Harris + Beverley is a pretty good offer overall IMO.

Yeah, you add LeBron to this existing core as-is, and Golden State might still be the favorites.  is what it is.

[Phantom255x]

So I leave for an hour and come back thinking there's good discussion going on.

Nope.

I see LarBrd throwing his Philly pride around here   

You know if this was the other way around (switched teams, same player) LarBrd would be praising Jaylen and calling Fultz a bust 

Also Fultz + 10 + Covington is definitely beatable. Fultz can be a piece but there's no way RIGHT NOW he can be a primary piece in a trade for a star.

Exactly right. It's always sunny in Philadelphia.

I feel bad for the guy, he's clearly lost his fastball and is relying on a bunch of off-speed stuff that has no movement. So easy to read now. He's clearly not the same guy he was before his retirement. He probably should've just stayed retired.

I still can't believe what I read recently from him.

"Healthy Celtics (w/o losing a single asset) + Lebron still not enough to beat Golden State" LOL. But he'd tell you healthy Sixers + Lebron dominates Golden State in 5 or 6.

Anyways, I think the Clippers could actually make a good push. #12 + #13 + Harris + Beverley is a pretty good offer overall IMO.

Yeah, you add LeBron to this existing core as-is, and Golden State might still be the favorites.  is what it is.

What if Lebron was added to the existing core in Philly?

Also I highly doubt GSW remains the favorites if that hypothetically did happen.

[Monkhouse]

So I leave for an hour and come back thinking there's good discussion going on.

Nope.

I see LarBrd throwing his Philly pride around here   

You know if this was the other way around (switched teams, same player) LarBrd would be praising Jaylen and calling Fultz a bust 

Also Fultz + 10 + Covington is definitely beatable. Fultz can be a piece but there's no way RIGHT NOW he can be a primary piece in a trade for a star.

Exactly right. It's always sunny in Philadelphia.

I feel bad for the guy, he's clearly lost his fastball and is relying on a bunch of off-speed stuff that has no movement. So easy to read now. He's clearly not the same guy he was before his retirement. He probably should've just stayed retired.

I still can't believe what I read recently from him.

"Healthy Celtics (w/o losing a single asset) + Lebron still not enough to beat Golden State" LOL. But he'd tell you healthy Sixers + Lebron dominates Golden State in 5 or 6.

Anyways, I think the Clippers could actually make a good push. #12 + #13 + Harris + Beverley is a pretty good offer overall IMO.

Yeah, you add LeBron to this existing core as-is, and Golden State might still be the favorites.  is what it is.

What if Lebron was added to the existing core in Philly?

Also I highly doubt GSW remains the favorites if that hypothetically did happen.

Please don't feed the trolls..

[LarBrd33]

So I leave for an hour and come back thinking there's good discussion going on.

Nope.

I see LarBrd throwing his Philly pride around here   

You know if this was the other way around (switched teams, same player) LarBrd would be praising Jaylen and calling Fultz a bust 

Also Fultz + 10 + Covington is definitely beatable. Fultz can be a piece but there's no way RIGHT NOW he can be a primary piece in a trade for a star.

Exactly right. It's always sunny in Philadelphia.

I feel bad for the guy, he's clearly lost his fastball and is relying on a bunch of off-speed stuff that has no movement. So easy to read now. He's clearly not the same guy he was before his retirement. He probably should've just stayed retired.

I still can't believe what I read recently from him.

"Healthy Celtics (w/o losing a single asset) + Lebron still not enough to beat Golden State" LOL. But he'd tell you healthy Sixers + Lebron dominates Golden State in 5 or 6.

Anyways, I think the Clippers could actually make a good push. #12 + #13 + Harris + Beverley is a pretty good offer overall IMO.

Yeah, you add LeBron to this existing core as-is, and Golden State might still be the favorites.  is what it is.

What if Lebron was added to the existing core in Philly?

I'm going to use my actual quote, because the ninnies on this forum have a tendency to misquote me:

I think even if we added LeBron without sacrificing a single asset, the Warriors could still beat us.  That's how historically loaded that Warrior team is.  Two generational MVP talents.  Three of the greatest shooters of all time.  It wouldn't be easy.

I stand by that.

[RJ87]

How did a Kawhi Leonard thread become a 76ers thread?

[nickagneta]

The next person that labels another poster a troll will be due a very long suspension. Let's get this back to Leonard and away from current discussion.

[Phantom255x]

Salary matching is the primary problem here. Easier to do than for Lebron (hypothetically), but still difficult because giving up Jaylen in a package for a rental seems ridiculous.

I think rental Kawhi for rental Harris, rental Beverley and #12 + #13 from LAC makes sense for both the teams (Spurs/Clippers). Clippers would do it b/c they are a bit desperate. And unless LAL throws in BOTH Ingram + Kuzma, I don't see Pop trading him there.

Philly could be an intriguing partner. I think they'd have to add more to Fultz + Covington + #10 though. Fultz right now doesn't have much value as people around here think. Still a solid piece but not a "primary" piece in a trade.

[LarBrd33]

How did a Kawhi Leonard thread become a 76ers thread?

Because I said it will be hard to beat an offer of Covington + Fultz + #10.

I could see Philly making that offer. 

The Lakers could presumably do something built around Ball or Ingram, but I think the gold standard right now is that hypothetical Philly offer.

My guess is during February when the Spurs turned our trade offer down, we offered a package of Brown + the salary filler of Morris + Baynes + Yabu.  That could have worked financially. 

The problem is right now, even if we were still game to include Brown + Morris, we no longer can move Baynes or Smart.  We'd have to wait until later in the offseason and do some kind of sign-and-trade where a guy like Smart agrees to go to the Spurs.