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Bball coaching advice
« on: October 16, 2008, 07:49:32 PM »

Offline cdif911

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ok - I'm in a pickle.

I've been coaching freshmen basketball for 4 years, 1 under an old coach and 3 under a "new regime" - the middle school coach just quit, and the new regime is seeing this as an opportunity to bring another one of "their guys" in... they want to bump me to middle school.  I have zero desire to coach there - I don't connect well with the population, they tend to fool around, etc. not a fan.  I really want my spot, and feel disrespected because I do a good job. If I put up too much of a stink though it can affect me in other ways, retribution towards my teaching would not be cool.

Option  B - I was telling the varsity girls coach and she basically offered me the freshmen girls job - now I've never coached girls, so I'm a bit apprehensive, but at least I feel wanted.

So do I coach middle school, be unhappy, but be a part of the program I feel I've helped build (albeit in a diminished role imo) or join a new program where I'll be working with a whole new demographic... ?  advice would be awesome
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Re: Bball coaching advice
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2008, 08:12:28 PM »

Offline Greenwood

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During my high school years I was cut from my varsity team my junior and senior year.  I stuck on to help out the team with stats but I was done after that.  The summer following my junior year I was approached and asked to coach the summer league team for my varsity girls program.  My only coaching experience up to then was coaching youth leagues and camps.  I took the offer figuring it would look good on college applications and over all it was a good experience.  Going into my senior year the coach offered me a position being a full time assistant coach to the varsity team.  It wasn't a paying position but I got a lot of control over the team mostly working individually with players and being a barrier between players and the coach.  To make a long story short I took the job and we made states for the first time in over 10 years.  It was a very rewarding experience and I did get into every college that I applied to and even ended up coaching against a German national team as a head coach. 

First off there are two different types of girls programs that I have encountered, the very serious and not so serious.  If the girls program you are looking to enter is serious and the freshmen team is a focused group of girls that want to play basketball I say take the position.  If it is a program where the freshmen team is just there as more of an after school program I would stay far away from it.  The sport is generally the same though and it really revolves around what kind of kids you have to teach the game to.  Talk to the middle school girls coach of the kids that you will be coaching next year and see what he/she has to say about the program.  I wouldn't shy away from it because of gender just go into the better program that gives you the most freedom to coach. 

Re: Bball coaching advice
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2008, 09:08:53 PM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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ok - I'm in a pickle.

I've been coaching freshmen basketball for 4 years, 1 under an old coach and 3 under a "new regime" - the middle school coach just quit, and the new regime is seeing this as an opportunity to bring another one of "their guys" in... they want to bump me to middle school.  I have zero desire to coach there - I don't connect well with the population, they tend to fool around, etc. not a fan.  I really want my spot, and feel disrespected because I do a good job. If I put up too much of a stink though it can affect me in other ways, retribution towards my teaching would not be cool.

Option  B - I was telling the varsity girls coach and she basically offered me the freshmen girls job - now I've never coached girls, so I'm a bit apprehensive, but at least I feel wanted.

So do I coach middle school, be unhappy, but be a part of the program I feel I've helped build (albeit in a diminished role imo) or join a new program where I'll be working with a whole new demographic... ?  advice would be awesome

cdif, from what you've written here, it sounds like you feel similarly to the way I would in that spot - preferring to coach high school rather than medical school simply because it's a higher level of competition and the game is more serious.  If I'm reading you right on that, I'd suggest trying your first foray into girls' hoops to stay at the high school level and to see how it treats you.  But I'd also echo Greenwood's sentiments about finding out as much as you can about both situations and how much creative freedom you'll have in each spot.

Best of luck, and please do keep us posted on how this one turns out...

-sw


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Re: Bball coaching advice
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2008, 09:38:59 PM »

Offline kingstaystheking

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I can tell you from my experience coaching both Boys and Girls HS level hoops that coaching girls is a must for developing your own skills as a coach. I coached in a great boys program, and once I moved out here I started up in AAU with U16 teams in West. Mass. Once I came out east I decided to take a job at the school I work at coaching freshmen girls.

First off, the talent level drop off is frustrating, so just accept that, and move on.  On the positive side though, it allowed me to breakdown my own drills and skill development to a lower level, which was great because it caused me to focus much more on the finer points of  instruction.  One of the great things about coaching girls, is that they can be extremely coachable and listen to direction intently, which calls for you as a coach to really develop your communication skills (for ex. being specific about your expectations regarding a drill and clearly outlining the point and technique).  It also allows you to critique yourself, as applying your coaching skills to a different population can only help you get a better understanding of the info you are trying to relay, and the method by which you are relaying it. Lastly, we all know that the fundamental aspect of good girls basketball is the key to success, as talent that can dominate games is alot less abundant.  So coaching players with a limited skill set calls for you as a coach to focus on other keys to winning, such as efficiency, ball control, and number of possessions.  Your team will live and die by your play calling and your team's discipline, which are direct reflections of you as a coach.

ultimately, I hope I didnt state too much, but I found myself in a similar situation and I think that coaching girls greatly improved me as a coach.  ALso, in terms of the future, ADs love to see someone who can apply their trade to everybody, as it speaks volumes about who you are as a coach and a person.  Good luck with your choice.

Re: Bball coaching advice
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2008, 10:34:25 PM »

Offline cdif911

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thanks everyone for the advice, tp's all around =) makes me feel better to see others have been in similar situations - I'm definitely sleeping on it, maybe let the weekend go by, we'll see.  But I'll update when I decide
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Re: Bball coaching advice
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2008, 10:54:32 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Speaking as someone who graduated high school a few years ago, I think high school and middle school both ball have their advantages. If the middle school has an actual team I would say coach the middle school team. When I was in middle school, we never had an actual middle school team. I lived in such a small town that we only played against kids in our town. My middle school had no budget or desire to invest in a legitimate middle school team. So, from second grade to eighth I played in a thing we all just called youth league. It was great fun, but I often wished when I was in middle school we had one team full of kids that were serious. youth league was great, and some of my most cherished basketball memories are from that time period. But the problem with youth league was that it purely for fun. If there was a middle school team, it would have weeded out all the bad players. And we would of had, well, you know, and actual team! So if the middle school that wants you to coach has a real team, I would say go for it.

The only reason I would not go for the middle school gig is if there is no room to move up. The girls gig sounds like you will have room to climb the ladder. However, the girls freshmen team may seriously be lacking in talent. This may be really hard to tolerate even if you are the biggest basketball fan.

I would just like to say one more thing about the middle school coaching option. When I was in middle school, the kids who could play in my age group all took basketball real seriously. We had 10 - 14 kids (myself included) who played the game really seriously. And those were the basketball days that were the best, however innocent they were. My peers and I went on to play basketball in high school, but the basketball memories from the middle school era are more valuable. Depending on where you are coaching, the probability of getting talent that will play at the college level is slim. At the middle school level you really get to mold, shape, and watch your players progress when they reach high school. So all in all, I say go for the middle school gig. I know what I am about to say may sound crazy to some people. But I believe kids in middle school love the game more than high school kids. Middle school kids still have high hopes for the game.

Both coaching jobs could offer you different things. I don't think either one is better or worse, just different. I would go for the middle school boys job.


Re: Bball coaching advice
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2008, 11:27:41 PM »

Offline Tw1x990

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There is talent in middle school .. no doubt about it. I like what one of the posters above me said, Its almost like the middle school kids take basketball more seriously .. less distractions.

Beaing a head coach of some form of basketball is kind of a dream of mine ( currently still in college ) and Im not sure how to get started .. dont want to change the topic but I'd love some advice..

All in all, I think you would like the middle school head coaching job ... I think there is potential for moving up to high school here too. The high school players will go through you, if they like you they can influence the AD that your a better coach than the one they have now .. this situation may work better in a few years when your players graduate from high school and then as alumni they can tell the AD or whoever is in charge how good of a coach you are/were.

Re: Bball coaching advice
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2008, 11:33:28 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I've only coached as high as under 14s. That age is very tough to coach, they all think they know everything and take very little seriously. I've coached under 10's that cared more about the game than 13 year olds.

I'm past my coaching years and have had my fill. If you don't want to put up with the immaturity of the middle school kids I'd say go coach the girls team. They tend to be more mature if not more physically developed and will take to coaching much better than the MS boys. It would probably be a very rewarding experience.

A third option is to look around and find an open boys spot elsewhere. Although I know it would be easier and more loyal to coach where you teach, there's nothing written in stone that says you have to coach in that city.

I have a cousin who taught at Revere High School for years and yet was coaching Everett High Football at the same time. I think he even ended his coaching career up in the Peabody area. So it is possible to have a successful teaching career and still coach boys at the age level you want.

Just trying to provide another option.

Re: Bball coaching advice
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2008, 12:38:16 AM »

Offline Scribbles

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Do you know if the middle school group is dedicated?  Obviously at the high school level, girls or boys, commitment is much higher.  However, being in high school and having coached my younger bro who was in middle school at the time in, it was a fun experience. The kids were good and a good portion of the team was very into getting better at basketball so it was a fun thing.  When I first took it I said I'll give it a try and when I found out the kids were into it as I was it Obviously its  big difference in 7th and 8th grade.  7th grade they don't care as much but I was coaching 8th graders so first day of practice I said you can all goof off if you want I'm still getting my community service hours and I'll still have my spot on a varsity team because I practice and work hard.  This is your year to prepare for high school basketball.  You want to get better and win we can do that with work. I had 10 kids on the roster and 6 or 7 of them were into it and getting better so it was  a good time.

With that though, it was summer league and not a middle school season.  High school basketball is much more structed timewise and the commitment level is really high and most of the kids that try out want to play basketball in their high school years.

Maybe the best advice I can give you is just listen to your heart, in the end it will lead you to the right choice.   You can get some advice from everyone here but in the end you are making the choice so just think what you think is best for you. 

Re: Bball coaching advice
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2008, 01:13:17 AM »

Offline Edgar

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Bottom line I was never in yuour shoes but i really hope i was, because to share your knowledge with kids is the best thingthat could happend to a guy
hope u make the best choice for you
because i am sure for them * the guys or girls being taugh it will be a blesing to have u there because you care

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Re: Bball coaching advice
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2008, 01:41:07 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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ok - I'm in a pickle.

I've been coaching freshmen basketball for 4 years, 1 under an old coach and 3 under a "new regime" - the middle school coach just quit, and the new regime is seeing this as an opportunity to bring another one of "their guys" in... they want to bump me to middle school.  I have zero desire to coach there - I don't connect well with the population, they tend to fool around, etc. not a fan.  I really want my spot, and feel disrespected because I do a good job. If I put up too much of a stink though it can affect me in other ways, retribution towards my teaching would not be cool.

Option  B - I was telling the varsity girls coach and she basically offered me the freshmen girls job - now I've never coached girls, so I'm a bit apprehensive, but at least I feel wanted.

So do I coach middle school, be unhappy, but be a part of the program I feel I've helped build (albeit in a diminished role imo) or join a new program where I'll be working with a whole new demographic... ?  advice would be awesome
Wait are you volunteer, because otherwise are they firing you? Can they legally just kick you out? I remember my freshman year of HS when we would travel with the girls. They would routinely have less than double digits in points at the half? Is that really something you want to do? I personally would choose to coach the middle school team. Then again if you are really looking to move up the coaching ranks the girls team might be the way to go.
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Re: Bball coaching advice
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2008, 06:27:30 AM »

Offline cdif911

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to answer a few q's - its not that I'm being fired (as the current freshman boys coach) - the head coach (varsity) wants to move me to middle school, vs. the team I have currently coached - which I view as a step down the ladder - its an itnegrated program b/c of our school - middle schoolers actually can play up on freshmen, and even JV or varsity (it actually happens believe it or not) so the ms group tends to be drained of any talent - I typically took the top 3 or 4 msers for my freshman team - last years ms team didn't win a game.....

conversely the same trend happens across the board, so the best freshmen are on jv or varsity, and so on - so I want to move up, not down over my career

either way I'll get paid, and get to work with kids which is what I really want, but I do feel I'm being pushed in a direction I wouldn't choose if given the opportunity to switch (oh and its a year by year contract)

as for Edgar - I coach JV boys soccer, and its awesome - I hope to move up to varsity in the next year or two, very rewarding stuff
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Re: Bball coaching advice
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2008, 02:59:58 PM »

Offline celts55

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Okay. Since you asked, heres my two cents. Go wiyh the girls freshmen. Stay away from youth or middle school coaching if at all possible. I couched youth basketball travel teams in my town for longer than I care to remember. To be honest, altough boys that age (14 and under) can be a handful, I didn't find it that difficult to manage them. Sometimes their behavior was a challange, but it was certainly managable. It was the parents I couldn't stand. Once kids get to high school the parents seem to let up a little, but before that they are a giant pain in the butt. I could always count on one of them to let me know what I was doing wrong. Dad's would be yelling directions at their kids durning the game, which were usally just the opposite of what I told them to do. Some went so far as to call their kids over durning time out in ths middle of a game. It got to the point where I had to close practices to parents. They were not allowed in the gym at that time. Now don't get me wrong, I don't profess to know all there is to know about the game, but every year I coached we made the playoff in a very difficult division, made it to the finals a few times and even won it all one year. Than, I won't even get into the whole playing time fiasco. How come my Billy isn't playing as much as Johnny, etc. I finally quit due to these annoying parents, and not to toot my own horn, pretty much the same team went winless the next year. I'm not sure if you would have the same problems in middle school, but I have a friend who coaches at that level and he tells me he has pretty much the same issues.
Hope that helps.

Re: Bball coaching advice
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2008, 03:56:24 PM »

Offline youcanthandlethetruth113

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Do whatever makes you the most happy man.

I say you coach the girls! It sounds like you will be happier there because you are wanted, and I'd bet you can make a strong impact on the team in that role in the spotlight, as opposed to the diminished role which you would be unhappy with on the boys team. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Bball coaching advice
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2008, 02:43:07 AM »

Offline johnnyrondo

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I've coached both middle school and HS, both boys and girls. Middle School can be a lot of fun because often the kids are very enthusiastic as are the parents and the team is representing the school. Coaching a freshmen team or a JV team is sort of like coaching in the minor leagues. You're not as much representing the school as you are developing players and hoping they make it to "The Show", Varsity. Both can be rewarding. I'd do a little research and find out which group has a good group of kids and a supportive situation for yourself. If your not wanted or fully respected in the boys HS program, I say good riddance. You'll be better off with the Girls program or the middle school. Feel free to pm me with any questions or your phone number if you need more advice.