What do you think of 65 games rule?

[wdleehi]

I agree with the sentiment that the issue is the connecting such awards to the supermax contract.   Money is now decided by media members, not the NBA teams.   



I am perfectly happy with the idea that there is a 65 game rule.   They are awarding players on how they positively impact the game, and you can only do that by playing.   

[bdm860]

Just saw a stat about how Michael Jordan had 11 seasons of over 80 games played.

And he was playing closer to 40mpg too.  It's really amazing how much the games played has changed over the years.  Stars played more minutes and more often, and major injuries were a lot rarer.  Look at the Celtics players:

1980, Celtics had 3 play 82, 5 play 80+, 7 play 73+
1981, Celtics had 6 play 82, 8 play 80+
1982, Celtics had 2 play 82, 4 play 80+, 7 play 76+
1983, Celtics had 2 play 82, 3 play 80+, 8 play 72+
1984, Celtics had 1 play 82, 4 play 80+, 8 play 71+
1985, Celtics had 0 play 82, 2 play 80+, 7 play 75+
1986, Celtics had 2 play 82, 5 play 80+, 8 play 77+
1987, Celtics had 0 play 82, 1 play 80+, 8 play 71+
1988, Celtics had 0 play 82, 1 play 80+, 7 play 70+
1989, Celtics had 1 play 82, 3 play 80+, 6 play 72+

The whole rotation is available over 90% of time.  And that was the era of when they played some back-to-back-to-back games, 4-games-in-5-nights (I even saw a 5-games-in-6-nights/8-games-in-10-nights stretch), flew commercial (sleeping in airports and sitting in coach), stayed in cheaper hotels, sneaker technology/comfort was non-existent, training/nutrition was in the dark ages, etc.

Compared to now:

2022, Celtics had 0 play 82, 0 play 80+, 4 play 71+
2023, Celtics had 1 play 82, 2 play 80+, 4 play 74+

You're lucky to get a couple of role players available for most of your games.


Or look at All-NBA, this is the average games played for the 1st and 2nd team over the years

1980 - 80.5
1990 - 78.8
2000 - 75.4
2010 - 77.9
2019 - 72.5
2023 - 66.1

[johnnygreen]

If the players didn't take advantage of the whole game management concept, then the league wouldn't have needed to implement this 65 game rule.

I can't help but remember Jaylen Brown's 2020-2021 season. That season, he had a 58 game incentive in his contract. He played with an injury towards the end of the season, but immediately elected for season ending surgery after playing his 58th game. A week or so later, the playoffs began and the Celtics lost 4-1 to the Nets.

Then last season because of injuries, Jaylen made third team All NBA. Just in time to qualify for the super max. He never made the team before, and may not make another again. However, his timing was perfect.

[knuckleballer]

Just saw a stat about how Michael Jordan had 11 seasons of over 80 games played.

And he was playing closer to 40mpg too.  It's really amazing how much the games played has changed over the years.  Stars played more minutes and more often, and major injuries were a lot rarer.  Look at the Celtics players:

1980, Celtics had 3 play 82, 5 play 80+, 7 play 73+
1981, Celtics had 6 play 82, 8 play 80+
1982, Celtics had 2 play 82, 4 play 80+, 7 play 76+
1983, Celtics had 2 play 82, 3 play 80+, 8 play 72+
1984, Celtics had 1 play 82, 4 play 80+, 8 play 71+
1985, Celtics had 0 play 82, 2 play 80+, 7 play 75+
1986, Celtics had 2 play 82, 5 play 80+, 8 play 77+
1987, Celtics had 0 play 82, 1 play 80+, 8 play 71+
1988, Celtics had 0 play 82, 1 play 80+, 7 play 70+
1989, Celtics had 1 play 82, 3 play 80+, 6 play 72+

The whole rotation is available over 90% of time.  And that was the era of when they played some back-to-back-to-back games, 4-games-in-5-nights (I even saw a 5-games-in-6-nights/8-games-in-10-nights stretch), flew commercial (sleeping in airports and sitting in coach), stayed in cheaper hotels, sneaker technology/comfort was non-existent, training/nutrition was in the dark ages, etc.

Compared to now:

2022, Celtics had 0 play 82, 0 play 80+, 4 play 71+
2023, Celtics had 1 play 82, 2 play 80+, 4 play 74+

You're lucky to get a couple of role players available for most of your games.


Or look at All-NBA, this is the average games played for the 1st and 2nd team over the years

1980 - 80.5
1990 - 78.8
2000 - 75.4
2010 - 77.9
2019 - 72.5
2023 - 66.1

I think the offseason training players do now is the reason there are so many more injuries.  In decades past, players mostly rested in the offseason giving their ligaments a chance to heal.  Now players are doing intense training trying to become faster and more powerful, therefore adding more wear and tear during that time.  Also players are more muscular and heavier which also adds more physical stress.

[Atzar]

Kinda think the 65-game thing should be more of a general guideline than a hard rule.  But I don't object to the idea.

Definitely agree that the media should have no control, however indirect, over contracts that players can receive. 

[Birdman]

It should be that way unless someone has a devastating injury

[wdleehi]

The other part of the expansion of "rest" games came from the changes of the roster.   


It went from 12 players (with that can be 3 players on the injury list)  to now where there are up to 15 players plus three practice squad.   They have the extra bodies to allow rest.   

(some years it looks like teams could only have 11 player active when on the road)

[bdm860]

Just saw a stat about how Michael Jordan had 11 seasons of over 80 games played.

And he was playing closer to 40mpg too.  It's really amazing how much the games played has changed over the years.  Stars played more minutes and more often, and major injuries were a lot rarer.  Look at the Celtics players:

1980, Celtics had 3 play 82, 5 play 80+, 7 play 73+
1981, Celtics had 6 play 82, 8 play 80+
1982, Celtics had 2 play 82, 4 play 80+, 7 play 76+
1983, Celtics had 2 play 82, 3 play 80+, 8 play 72+
1984, Celtics had 1 play 82, 4 play 80+, 8 play 71+
1985, Celtics had 0 play 82, 2 play 80+, 7 play 75+
1986, Celtics had 2 play 82, 5 play 80+, 8 play 77+
1987, Celtics had 0 play 82, 1 play 80+, 8 play 71+
1988, Celtics had 0 play 82, 1 play 80+, 7 play 70+
1989, Celtics had 1 play 82, 3 play 80+, 6 play 72+

The whole rotation is available over 90% of time.  And that was the era of when they played some back-to-back-to-back games, 4-games-in-5-nights (I even saw a 5-games-in-6-nights/8-games-in-10-nights stretch), flew commercial (sleeping in airports and sitting in coach), stayed in cheaper hotels, sneaker technology/comfort was non-existent, training/nutrition was in the dark ages, etc.

Compared to now:

2022, Celtics had 0 play 82, 0 play 80+, 4 play 71+
2023, Celtics had 1 play 82, 2 play 80+, 4 play 74+

You're lucky to get a couple of role players available for most of your games.


Or look at All-NBA, this is the average games played for the 1st and 2nd team over the years

1980 - 80.5
1990 - 78.8
2000 - 75.4
2010 - 77.9
2019 - 72.5
2023 - 66.1

I think the offseason training players do now is the reason there are so many more injuries.  In decades past, players mostly rested in the offseason giving their ligaments a chance to heal.  Now players are doing intense training trying to become faster and more powerful, therefore adding more wear and tear during that time.  Also players are more muscular and heavier which also adds more physical stress.

I think it's actually starting much earlier than that.

There's a lot of studies (like here and here) and literature (like here and here) that are saying how specialization at a young age is bad and leads to more injuries.

Normal active kids will rotate through 2-4 sports/activities throughout the year (soccer/football in the fall, basketball/hockey in the winter, baseball/lacrosse in the spring, plus karate, wrestling, swimming, cycling, etc.), and doing this helps rotate through which muscles/bones/joints are being worked and rested.

But now, with the big money and exposure major sports gets (plus college scholarships for the less lucrative sports), parents/coaches have been pushing kids to specialize very young to try to give their kids an edge.  So instead of rotating through a few different sports every year, it's one sport all year, every year: school/rec league basketball, followed by the AAU, followed by camps, followed by other random leagues, etc. rinse and repeat.

I'm sure most of the NBA now played a lot more organized basketball at ages 10, 12, 15, 17, etc. than the stars of years past, which is contributing to more frequent and more severe injuries.

[liam]

It should be 60 games.

[Roy H.]

It should be 60 games.

Why so?  That's less than 75% of games played.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I like it. You can't be too valuable to your team, no matter how good you are, if you miss a lot of games.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Just saw a stat about how Michael Jordan had 11 seasons of over 80 games played.

And he was playing closer to 40mpg too.  It's really amazing how much the games played has changed over the years.  Stars played more minutes and more often, and major injuries were a lot rarer.  Look at the Celtics players:

1980, Celtics had 3 play 82, 5 play 80+, 7 play 73+
1981, Celtics had 6 play 82, 8 play 80+
1982, Celtics had 2 play 82, 4 play 80+, 7 play 76+
1983, Celtics had 2 play 82, 3 play 80+, 8 play 72+
1984, Celtics had 1 play 82, 4 play 80+, 8 play 71+
1985, Celtics had 0 play 82, 2 play 80+, 7 play 75+
1986, Celtics had 2 play 82, 5 play 80+, 8 play 77+
1987, Celtics had 0 play 82, 1 play 80+, 8 play 71+
1988, Celtics had 0 play 82, 1 play 80+, 7 play 70+
1989, Celtics had 1 play 82, 3 play 80+, 6 play 72+

The whole rotation is available over 90% of time.  And that was the era of when they played some back-to-back-to-back games, 4-games-in-5-nights (I even saw a 5-games-in-6-nights/8-games-in-10-nights stretch), flew commercial (sleeping in airports and sitting in coach), stayed in cheaper hotels, sneaker technology/comfort was non-existent, training/nutrition was in the dark ages, etc.

Compared to now:

2022, Celtics had 0 play 82, 0 play 80+, 4 play 71+
2023, Celtics had 1 play 82, 2 play 80+, 4 play 74+

You're lucky to get a couple of role players available for most of your games.


Or look at All-NBA, this is the average games played for the 1st and 2nd team over the years

1980 - 80.5
1990 - 78.8
2000 - 75.4
2010 - 77.9
2019 - 72.5
2023 - 66.1

I think the offseason training players do now is the reason there are so many more injuries.  In decades past, players mostly rested in the offseason giving their ligaments a chance to heal.  Now players are doing intense training trying to become faster and more powerful, therefore adding more wear and tear during that time.  Also players are more muscular and heavier which also adds more physical stress.

So, by players getting better in one way, they've gotten worse in another. Doesn't make sense to me to be "bigger, stronger, faster" if that leads to being available only 50% of the time. By and large, the human body just can't handle the regimen these guys put themselves through.

It's a similar situation in MLB—pitchers generally throw harder and faster now than in past eras, but they're getting Tommy John surgery left and right, or missing significant time for other injuries. We've gone from Bob Gibson throwing 255 complete games (an average of 15 a year, though during his prime he was throwing 20+ a season) to Sandy Alcántara and Jordan Lyles leading the majors last year with ... 3.

[ozgod]

I can understand the players being against it particularly as it will hit some of them in the hip pocket in terms of bonuses missing out on awards, but I'm ok with it. If you're made of china and miss nearly 20 games you shouldn't be MVP.

That said, I'm sure there will be lots of manipulations and things going on to make sure people qualify...maybe they play someone who is injured for a minute and take him out if he needs one more game to hit 65 games and make his bonus.

[gift]

i'm fine with the 65 threshold. you could talk me into being ok with 60 or 70. but a minimum is appropriate and anything below 65 is certainly trending in the wrong direction.

the only adjustment that i'd maybe be open to is go by percentage of other players games played. so if the top 5 mvp candidates averaged 70 games, maybe you just need to be within 90% of the average or something (so 63 games would be enough in this example). i'm not married to those specific numbers but just for example. because it doesn't make sense to me for one guy to win MVP playing 66 games and a guy who was absolutely better but only played 64 games is disqualified.

[SHAQATTACK]

65 -72 would be better , because people have a little more time to recover. Present   System forces them back on the court hurt …and that’s the best way to get permanent body damage .at least bring the amount down to NO BTB games or 1 to make the season work. Those games are throw away turds , grinds the players , and laying out of players by coaches.
Make each game more important, subtract 10 games. See how it goes.

NBA and owners TOO greedy.   Players should demand change .