The GOAT’s Scapegoat

[Roy H.]

A lot of this could easily be fixed if Jordan actually came out in support of Krause and his widow.

I really hate to sound like the bad guy saying this, because yes the fans were obviously in the wrong for booing. But lets not act like Jordan didn't basically create the tension through his documentary. Krause was made to be a villain in that. Pippen got portrayed badly in that and in a negative light. I don't even think Pippen likes Jordan now.

But of course Jordan won't do anything about it because that's who he is. He's even doubled down on a lot of the things said and portrayed from that documentary when he could have backtracked or at least showed support for the others in that documentary.

I'm curious how old you were in 1998.  The anti-Krause stuff was out there at the time.  It's not like it just sprung up in a documentary from three years ago.

I was born in 1998 

Makes sense.  That Krause narrative of him breaking up the Bulls was alive and well at the time.

Was it fair?  Here's a pretty good blog article:
https://readjack.substack.com/p/the-true-story-of-jerry-krause-and

[Kernewek]

A lot of this could easily be fixed if Jordan actually came out in support of Krause and his widow.

I really hate to sound like the bad guy saying this, because yes the fans were obviously in the wrong for booing. But lets not act like Jordan didn't basically create the tension through his documentary. Krause was made to be a villain in that. Pippen got portrayed badly in that and in a negative light. I don't even think Pippen likes Jordan now.

But of course Jordan won't do anything about it because that's who he is. He's even doubled down on a lot of the things said and portrayed from that documentary when he could have backtracked or at least showed support for the others in that documentary.

I'm curious how old you were in 1998.  The anti-Krause stuff was out there at the time.  It's not like it just sprung up in a documentary from three years ago.

I was born in 1998 

Makes sense.  That Krause narrative of him breaking up the Bulls was alive and well at the time.

Was it fair?  Here's a pretty good blog article:
https://readjack.substack.com/p/the-true-story-of-jerry-krause-and

I didn’t realise BlogABull had been killed off by Vox. Sad.

[Moranis]

Michael Jordan is meh, and the Bulls will never win another championship again.

I’m sorry but it’s not a meh scenario. Krause’s widow was at the ceremony, those boo’s devastated her.

Jordan was entitled to his opinion.  The fans are responsible for their own actions.

of course you can. They follow the lead of their idols

Weak argument that allows people to avoid personal responsibility.  Is Jordan disrespecting Krause's widow?

Not at all. Those people thought they were honoring Jordan because all the Jordan-philes hear from MJ is Krause is evil, Krause is why I left, etc. It poisons the well. Words matter and Jordan poisoned Bulls fan to Krause. It is pretty similar to the January 6th people and Trump. Acting like Trump didn't create the factors that led to that is just wrong. 

[Roy H.]

Michael Jordan is meh, and the Bulls will never win another championship again.

I’m sorry but it’s not a meh scenario. Krause’s widow was at the ceremony, those boo’s devastated her.

Jordan was entitled to his opinion.  The fans are responsible for their own actions.

of course you can. They follow the lead of their idols

Weak argument that allows people to avoid personal responsibility.  Is Jordan disrespecting Krause's widow?

Not at all. Those people thought they were honoring Jordan because all the Jordan-philes hear from MJ is Krause is evil, Krause is why I left, etc. It poisons the well. Words matter and Jordan poisoned Bulls fan to Krause. It is pretty similar to the January 6th people and Trump. Acting like Trump didn't create the factors that led to that is just wrong.

So you don't believe in personal responsibility.

Weird that Jordan's brainwashing magic didn't extend to Chicago fans hating Scottie Pippen.

[Moranis]

Michael Jordan is meh, and the Bulls will never win another championship again.

I’m sorry but it’s not a meh scenario. Krause’s widow was at the ceremony, those boo’s devastated her.

Jordan was entitled to his opinion.  The fans are responsible for their own actions.

of course you can. They follow the lead of their idols

Weak argument that allows people to avoid personal responsibility.  Is Jordan disrespecting Krause's widow?

Not at all. Those people thought they were honoring Jordan because all the Jordan-philes hear from MJ is Krause is evil, Krause is why I left, etc. It poisons the well. Words matter and Jordan poisoned Bulls fan to Krause. It is pretty similar to the January 6th people and Trump. Acting like Trump didn't create the factors that led to that is just wrong.

So you don't believe in personal responsibility.

Weird that Jordan's brainwashing magic didn't extend to Chicago fans hating Scottie Pippen.

of course there is personal responsibility but in those fans mind they are supporting their idol and didn't think they did anything wrong.  You can't create the situation and then act like nothing happened.

[ozgod]

A lot of this could easily be fixed if Jordan actually came out in support of Krause and his widow.

I really hate to sound like the bad guy saying this, because yes the fans were obviously in the wrong for booing. But lets not act like Jordan didn't basically create the tension through his documentary. Krause was made to be a villain in that. Pippen got portrayed badly in that and in a negative light. I don't even think Pippen likes Jordan now.

But of course Jordan won't do anything about it because that's who he is. He's even doubled down on a lot of the things said and portrayed from that documentary when he could have backtracked or at least showed support for the others in that documentary.

I'm curious how old you were in 1998.  The anti-Krause stuff was out there at the time.  It's not like it just sprung up in a documentary from three years ago.

I was born in 1998 

You're a young 'un 

[ozgod]

Michael Jordan is meh, and the Bulls will never win another championship again.

I’m sorry but it’s not a meh scenario. Krause’s widow was at the ceremony, those boo’s devastated her.

Jordan was entitled to his opinion.  The fans are responsible for their own actions.

of course you can. They follow the lead of their idols

Weak argument that allows people to avoid personal responsibility.  Is Jordan disrespecting Krause's widow?

Not at all. Those people thought they were honoring Jordan because all the Jordan-philes hear from MJ is Krause is evil, Krause is why I left, etc. It poisons the well. Words matter and Jordan poisoned Bulls fan to Krause. It is pretty similar to the January 6th people and Trump. Acting like Trump didn't create the factors that led to that is just wrong.

So you don't believe in personal responsibility.

Weird that Jordan's brainwashing magic didn't extend to Chicago fans hating Scottie Pippen.

of course there is personal responsibility but in those fans mind they are supporting their idol and didn't think they did anything wrong.  You can't create the situation and then act like nothing happened.

I guess the way I look at it is, the fans consume information from various sources and formulate a world view influenced by those sources, for better or worse. The actions they then take to propagate that world view are influenced by those sources, but they bear responsibility for those actions. We can blame Jordan for creating an environment where Krause was persona non grata, but he didn't ask those guys to boo - they did that themselves.

[celticsclay]

A lot of this could easily be fixed if Jordan actually came out in support of Krause and his widow.

I really hate to sound like the bad guy saying this, because yes the fans were obviously in the wrong for booing. But lets not act like Jordan didn't basically create the tension through his documentary. Krause was made to be a villain in that. Pippen got portrayed badly in that and in a negative light. I don't even think Pippen likes Jordan now.

But of course Jordan won't do anything about it because that's who he is. He's even doubled down on a lot of the things said and portrayed from that documentary when he could have backtracked or at least showed support for the others in that documentary.

I'm curious how old you were in 1998.  The anti-Krause stuff was out there at the time.  It's not like it just sprung up in a documentary from three years ago.

I was born in 1998 

Makes sense.  That Krause narrative of him breaking up the Bulls was alive and well at the time.

Was it fair?  Here's a pretty good blog article:
https://readjack.substack.com/p/the-true-story-of-jerry-krause-and

Yeah this stuff has been around for 25 years or whatever. I forget some younger fans may only know about the bulls run from the documentary. However, if you know all the facts it is quite weird to blame Jordan for how fans, particularly older ones, feel about Krause. Also, in what way is it Michael Jordan's fault that Krause told Phil Jackson his contract would not be renewed? Before his final season?

[celticsclay]

Michael Jordan is meh, and the Bulls will never win another championship again.

I’m sorry but it’s not a meh scenario. Krause’s widow was at the ceremony, those boo’s devastated her.

Jordan was entitled to his opinion.  The fans are responsible for their own actions.

of course you can. They follow the lead of their idols

Weak argument that allows people to avoid personal responsibility.  Is Jordan disrespecting Krause's widow?

Not at all. Those people thought they were honoring Jordan because all the Jordan-philes hear from MJ is Krause is evil, Krause is why I left, etc. It poisons the well. Words matter and Jordan poisoned Bulls fan to Krause. It is pretty similar to the January 6th people and Trump. Acting like Trump didn't create the factors that led to that is just wrong.

Extremely wild comparison Mo. I'll give you a tommy point for the sheer chaos of it. If you can find a way to compare MJ fans with holocaust deniers I will give you 5 more.

[Roy H.]

A lot of this could easily be fixed if Jordan actually came out in support of Krause and his widow.

I really hate to sound like the bad guy saying this, because yes the fans were obviously in the wrong for booing. But lets not act like Jordan didn't basically create the tension through his documentary. Krause was made to be a villain in that. Pippen got portrayed badly in that and in a negative light. I don't even think Pippen likes Jordan now.

But of course Jordan won't do anything about it because that's who he is. He's even doubled down on a lot of the things said and portrayed from that documentary when he could have backtracked or at least showed support for the others in that documentary.

I'm curious how old you were in 1998.  The anti-Krause stuff was out there at the time.  It's not like it just sprung up in a documentary from three years ago.

I was born in 1998 

Makes sense.  That Krause narrative of him breaking up the Bulls was alive and well at the time.

Was it fair?  Here's a pretty good blog article:
https://readjack.substack.com/p/the-true-story-of-jerry-krause-and

Yeah this stuff has been around for 25 years or whatever. I forget some younger fans may only know about the bulls run from the documentary. However, if you know all the facts it is quite weird to blame Jordan for how fans, particularly older ones, feel about Krause. Also, in what way is it Michael Jordan's fault that Krause told Phil Jackson his contract would not be renewed? Before his final season?

Yeah, there's a strong argument that Krause's actions did break up the Bulls, and that he should have been criticized for that.  It's perfectly valid to have that view, while also believing that it's sickening to boo the man after his death, in the presence of his widow.

[celticsclay]

A lot of this could easily be fixed if Jordan actually came out in support of Krause and his widow.

I really hate to sound like the bad guy saying this, because yes the fans were obviously in the wrong for booing. But lets not act like Jordan didn't basically create the tension through his documentary. Krause was made to be a villain in that. Pippen got portrayed badly in that and in a negative light. I don't even think Pippen likes Jordan now.

But of course Jordan won't do anything about it because that's who he is. He's even doubled down on a lot of the things said and portrayed from that documentary when he could have backtracked or at least showed support for the others in that documentary.

I'm curious how old you were in 1998.  The anti-Krause stuff was out there at the time.  It's not like it just sprung up in a documentary from three years ago.

I was born in 1998 

Makes sense.  That Krause narrative of him breaking up the Bulls was alive and well at the time.

Was it fair?  Here's a pretty good blog article:
https://readjack.substack.com/p/the-true-story-of-jerry-krause-and

Yeah this stuff has been around for 25 years or whatever. I forget some younger fans may only know about the bulls run from the documentary. However, if you know all the facts it is quite weird to blame Jordan for how fans, particularly older ones, feel about Krause. Also, in what way is it Michael Jordan's fault that Krause told Phil Jackson his contract would not be renewed? Before his final season?

Yeah, there's a strong argument that Krause's actions did break up the Bulls, and that he should have been criticized for that.  It's perfectly valid to have that view, while also believing that it's sickening to boo the man after his death, in the presence of his widow.

Yeah to be clear I don’t support booing his widow at all. That was extremely classless.

[Moranis]

Michael Jordan is meh, and the Bulls will never win another championship again.

I’m sorry but it’s not a meh scenario. Krause’s widow was at the ceremony, those boo’s devastated her.

Jordan was entitled to his opinion.  The fans are responsible for their own actions.

of course you can. They follow the lead of their idols

Weak argument that allows people to avoid personal responsibility.  Is Jordan disrespecting Krause's widow?

Not at all. Those people thought they were honoring Jordan because all the Jordan-philes hear from MJ is Krause is evil, Krause is why I left, etc. It poisons the well. Words matter and Jordan poisoned Bulls fan to Krause. It is pretty similar to the January 6th people and Trump. Acting like Trump didn't create the factors that led to that is just wrong.

Extremely wild comparison Mo. I'll give you a tommy point for the sheer chaos of it. If you can find a way to compare MJ fans with holocaust deniers I will give you 5 more.

The Last Dance was 3 years ago though.  It was recent and portrayed Krause as the villain and man basically solely responsible for the Bulls break up.  It was also fiction, but that is the narrative that was created moatly by MJ, but with Phil and Pip feeding in, and that is why Krause could get booed at the Ring of Honor.

[green_bballers13]

Michael Jordan is meh, and the Bulls will never win another championship again.

I’m sorry but it’s not a meh scenario. Krause’s widow was at the ceremony, those boo’s devastated her.

Jordan was entitled to his opinion.  The fans are responsible for their own actions.

of course you can. They follow the lead of their idols

Weak argument that allows people to avoid personal responsibility.  Is Jordan disrespecting Krause's widow?

Not at all. Those people thought they were honoring Jordan because all the Jordan-philes hear from MJ is Krause is evil, Krause is why I left, etc. It poisons the well. Words matter and Jordan poisoned Bulls fan to Krause. It is pretty similar to the January 6th people and Trump. Acting like Trump didn't create the factors that led to that is just wrong.

Extremely wild comparison Mo. I'll give you a tommy point for the sheer chaos of it. If you can find a way to compare MJ fans with holocaust deniers I will give you 5 more.

The Last Dance was 3 years ago though.  It was recent and portrayed Krause as the villain and man basically solely responsible for the Bulls break up.  It was also fiction, but that is the narrative that was created moatly by MJ, but with Phil and Pip feeding in, and that is why Krause could get booed at the Ring of Honor.

Even if Krause did all of those things, why would that excuse people to boo his widow? I don't see the connection.

It would be wild and inappropriate if my wife caught heat for things I've said or done.

By bringing up January 6th, are you saying that people aren't for responsible for being decent anymore?

[celticsclay]

Michael Jordan is meh, and the Bulls will never win another championship again.

I’m sorry but it’s not a meh scenario. Krause’s widow was at the ceremony, those boo’s devastated her.

Jordan was entitled to his opinion.  The fans are responsible for their own actions.

of course you can. They follow the lead of their idols

Weak argument that allows people to avoid personal responsibility.  Is Jordan disrespecting Krause's widow?

Not at all. Those people thought they were honoring Jordan because all the Jordan-philes hear from MJ is Krause is evil, Krause is why I left, etc. It poisons the well. Words matter and Jordan poisoned Bulls fan to Krause. It is pretty similar to the January 6th people and Trump. Acting like Trump didn't create the factors that led to that is just wrong.

Extremely wild comparison Mo. I'll give you a tommy point for the sheer chaos of it. If you can find a way to compare MJ fans with holocaust deniers I will give you 5 more.

The Last Dance was 3 years ago though.  It was recent and portrayed Krause as the villain and man basically solely responsible for the Bulls break up.  It was also fiction, but that is the narrative that was created moatly by MJ, but with Phil and Pip feeding in, and that is why Krause could get booed at the Ring of Honor.

I really don’t understand how you think bulls fans started disliking Krause three years ago. There have been numerous resources shared that showed this was true 20+ years ago. I get you are a Lebron guy and want to bash Jordan but this isn’t in the ballpark of logical.

[celticsclay]

Michael Jordan is meh, and the Bulls will never win another championship again.

I’m sorry but it’s not a meh scenario. Krause’s widow was at the ceremony, those boo’s devastated her.

Jordan was entitled to his opinion.  The fans are responsible for their own actions.

of course you can. They follow the lead of their idols

Weak argument that allows people to avoid personal responsibility.  Is Jordan disrespecting Krause's widow?

Not at all. Those people thought they were honoring Jordan because all the Jordan-philes hear from MJ is Krause is evil, Krause is why I left, etc. It poisons the well. Words matter and Jordan poisoned Bulls fan to Krause. It is pretty similar to the January 6th people and Trump. Acting like Trump didn't create the factors that led to that is just wrong.

Extremely wild comparison Mo. I'll give you a tommy point for the sheer chaos of it. If you can find a way to compare MJ fans with holocaust deniers I will give you 5 more.

The Last Dance was 3 years ago though.  It was recent and portrayed Krause as the villain and man basically solely responsible for the Bulls break up.  It was also fiction, but that is the narrative that was created moatly by MJ, but with Phil and Pip feeding in, and that is why Krause could get booed at the Ring of Honor.

Even if Krause did all of those things, why would that excuse people to boo his widow? I don't see the connection.

It would be wild and inappropriate if my wife caught heat for things I've said or done.

By bringing up January 6th, are you saying that people aren't for responsible for being decent anymore?

The January 6th thing was pretty inappropriate to be honest. Booing the widow was classless but it’s not a federal crime and the people aren’t going to jail for doing it. There are much better ways for mo to bash mj than this weird tangent.