Kemba Walker out of Knicks Rotation

[Goldstar88]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

Bottom line, the Hayward injury cost us at least one title. That’s not Ainge’s fault.

His worst decision, tho it was understandable, was trading for Kyrie. I wish Cleveland had bailed him out by refusing to set a reasonable price and effectively blowing up the deal. Almost anything else Ainge could’ve done would have come out better. Look at who was available with that 8th pick - SGA, Miles Bridges. Or maybe we trade it for a vet with less upside talent but a stable, team-building personality. It all ends a lot better.

Did it?  Even if Boston made it out of the east, was Boston going to beat the Warriors?  That seems highly unlikely to me.

It did not. Hayward was never a great fit on the C’s even when he was healthy. They were not winning a title with that group.

This is a silly take since he was healthy for all of five minutes on the 2017-2018 team that was a quarter away from the NBA finals.

If you believe the C’s would have beaten the Warriors in the Finals that year, then I have some swampland in Louisiana I’d like to sell you.

[Rosco917]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

Bottom line, the Hayward injury cost us at least one title. That’s not Ainge’s fault.

His worst decision, tho it was understandable, was trading for Kyrie. I wish Cleveland had bailed him out by refusing to set a reasonable price and effectively blowing up the deal. Almost anything else Ainge could’ve done would have come out better. Look at who was available with that 8th pick - SGA, Miles Bridges. Or maybe we trade it for a vet with less upside talent but a stable, team-building personality. It all ends a lot better.

Did it?  Even if Boston made it out of the east, was Boston going to beat the Warriors?  That seems highly unlikely to me.

It did not. Hayward was never a great fit on the C’s even when he was healthy. They were not winning a title with that group.

This is a silly take since he was healthy for all of five minutes on the 2017-2018 team that was a quarter away from the NBA finals.

Wow, we have some crazy views of the past.

First of all, if you remember IT was pressuring the Celtics for a long term, multimillion dollar deal, even though he knew his hip was serious. (Remember the medical staff was let go because of this.) Danny took a shot with trading for Irving, he had no choice. Okay, it didn't workout. IMO Kyrie took a look at the two J's and their flaws and decided they were a ways away in terms of basketball IQ. And being the idiot that he is, he reacted in a predictably childish way. 

Hayward was exactly the player the young J's needed to emulate, but fate reared its head from his horrible injury happening in his very first game. By the time he was healthy, the J's had a planned pecking order in place that didn't include Hayward.

Kemba was a panic move by Danny to appease fan base for the loss of Irving. Danny was fleeced in the signing of Walker because he had bad knees at the time of the signing. The rest is current history, and here we are.

[sgrogan]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

Bottom line, the Hayward injury cost us at least one title. That’s not Ainge’s fault.

His worst decision, tho it was understandable, was trading for Kyrie. I wish Cleveland had bailed him out by refusing to set a reasonable price and effectively blowing up the deal. Almost anything else Ainge could’ve done would have come out better. Look at who was available with that 8th pick - SGA, Miles Bridges. Or maybe we trade it for a vet with less upside talent but a stable, team-building personality. It all ends a lot better.

Did it?  Even if Boston made it out of the east, was Boston going to beat the Warriors?  That seems highly unlikely to me.

Tough to say, but the trajectory would have changed.

If Hayword and Kyrie were healthy.
What if we get by Cleveland, and take the Warriors to 6, with Durant.
The next year we are coming off the #1 defense and a finals loss the previous year.
Al, Kyrie, and maybe Gordon were all-stars.
We have 2 young recent draft picks that are two-way wings and shoot close to 40% from 3.
Maybe the Jay's development is less steep and they are quality depth instead of budding stars for 1 more year.

Instead we got,
Hayward working his way back, being force fed.
Rozier, Brown, and Tatum fresh off a game 7 ECF collapse wondering if they need the "stars" and Mook.
Kyrie disillusioned with the "youth, and handling it "not so well"

[SHAQATTACK]

I think some doctors got rich signing off on his body .  Maybe several times.   Funny how great shape he was supposed to be in at contract signing .  All the doctors did was turn back the odometer on Km a and Danny bought it…..hook line and sinker . 

[sgrogan]

I think some doctors got rich signing off on his body .  Maybe several times.   Funny how great shape he was supposed to be in at contract signing .  All the doctors did was turn back the odometer on Km a and Danny bought it…..hook line and sinker .

There was no indication before the signing.
Kemba participating in the All-Star game after being hurt, his first C's season was the beginning of the downfall.

[Moranis]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

In retrospect though, IT was clearly cooked, so acquiring Kyrie was still better than sticking with IT. Moving Rozier for Kemba was a mistake though.

The major factors for our franchise struggles are Hayward's injury and Ainge never choosing a direction between the all-star vet core and the young prospects core, leaving us with a mismatched roster and horrible bench each season.

Yes, Danny tried to have his cake and eat it too - seemed possible at the time.

So, let's say instead he chooses a direction and goes with the all-star vet-core (still ridding the team of head-case Kyrie, though).
What does our first 8 look like now ??

Not directly related but feels like maybe he should have picked a direction by not signing Kemba.

Everything before that was really good. Healthy Hayward and Kyrie...jeez. And Horford too... this is on top of the Jays...and with our monster bench (one of the Morris twins, Rozier...). You just have to go for it.

Kemba was more iffy.

Kemba was coming off an All-NBA season and had missed a total three games over the prior four years.  Sure, there was concern about how he’d look in year 4 of the deal, but it was pretty surprising he was irreparably damaged a half season in.

Sure, but Kemba even if he was healthy was never a great fit both on the court and in the timeline of Tatum and Brown.  He was also very expensive.  I said at the time and still maintain that going after Brogdon made far more sense for Boston.  He would have been a much better fit and he was significantly less expensive.  He arguably could have also played next to Rozier though that bridge may have been burned at that point regardless.

Kemba was healthy through Janaury his first year here.  During that time, the Celtics went 32-15 with the #6 offense, #4 defense, and were 3rd in Net rating, while Kemba earned a starting All-Star nod.  That team was a true contender before Kemba got hurt, and even with a slowed Kemba still made it to the conference finals.

That season Boston was 37-19 (66%) with Walker and 11-5 (68.75%) without him.  In fact, Boston was actually better per 100 possessions with Walker on the bench that season then they were with him in the game.  Walker played just fine, but he was also taking touches from Tatum, Brown, and Hayward while playing the worst defense of the top 4.  Walker was not a great fit on the court.  That isn't to say it couldn't have worked, but it a guy like Brogdon made a lot more sense basketball wise, because he was better off the ball, a better shooter, and a better defender.  He is also bigger and more versatile positionally along with being younger and cheaper.

[SHAQATTACK]

I think some doctors got rich signing off on his body .  Maybe several times.   Funny how great shape he was supposed to be in at contract signing .  All the doctors did was turn back the odometer on Km a and Danny bought it…..hook line and sinker .

There was no indication before the signing.
Kemba participating in the All-Star game after being hurt, his first C's season was the beginning of the downfall.

There is a huge difference between being hurt , which implies you can return to normal,  loss of cartilage is not fixable , there are bandaids ,  but no miracle cures.  His knees were going away for years , it’s a slow process for most people , it showed up,early because of the stress of his NBA playing.  He was managing pain on Hornets  , keeping his cards to himself knowing he had to make it to another contract  , his knees were worn out from high usage . .  it happens when you get old ,    Kemba s punishing NBA career wore him out about 20-25 years sooner than an average man. 

[Sophomore]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

Bottom line, the Hayward injury cost us at least one title. That’s not Ainge’s fault.

His worst decision, tho it was understandable, was trading for Kyrie. I wish Cleveland had bailed him out by refusing to set a reasonable price and effectively blowing up the deal. Almost anything else Ainge could’ve done would have come out better. Look at who was available with that 8th pick - SGA, Miles Bridges. Or maybe we trade it for a vet with less upside talent but a stable, team-building personality. It all ends a lot better.

Did it?  Even if Boston made it out of the east, was Boston going to beat the Warriors?  That seems highly unlikely to me.

It did not. Hayward was never a great fit on the C’s even when he was healthy. They were not winning a title with that group.

This is a silly take since he was healthy for all of five minutes on the 2017-2018 team that was a quarter away from the NBA finals.

If you believe the C’s would have beaten the Warriors in the Finals that year, then I have some swampland in Louisiana I’d like to sell you.

I’m buying, because I bet there’s oil under the land you didn’t know about.

People forget how good GH was before his leg exploded. In 2017 he carried a Jazz team with very little talent to the second round, where he scored 25ppg against the GSW (on 18 attempts) and added four boards and four assists. He stood out. Add that player to the deep talented Boston team of 2018, and while I’m not 100% they would have beaten the Warriors I definitely see them having a shot. And the year after that? I like our chances against Toronto or the GSW.

The guy we saw in Boston was a shell of what Hayward was before his injury.

[Moranis]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

Bottom line, the Hayward injury cost us at least one title. That’s not Ainge’s fault.

His worst decision, tho it was understandable, was trading for Kyrie. I wish Cleveland had bailed him out by refusing to set a reasonable price and effectively blowing up the deal. Almost anything else Ainge could’ve done would have come out better. Look at who was available with that 8th pick - SGA, Miles Bridges. Or maybe we trade it for a vet with less upside talent but a stable, team-building personality. It all ends a lot better.

Did it?  Even if Boston made it out of the east, was Boston going to beat the Warriors?  That seems highly unlikely to me.

It did not. Hayward was never a great fit on the C’s even when he was healthy. They were not winning a title with that group.

This is a silly take since he was healthy for all of five minutes on the 2017-2018 team that was a quarter away from the NBA finals.

If you believe the C’s would have beaten the Warriors in the Finals that year, then I have some swampland in Louisiana I’d like to sell you.

I’m buying, because I bet there’s oil under the land you didn’t know about.

People forget how good GH was before his leg exploded. In 2017 he carried a Jazz team with very little talent to the second round, where he scored 25ppg against the GSW (on 18 attempts) and added four boards and four assists. He stood out. Add that player to the deep talented Boston team of 2018, and while I’m not 100% they would have beaten the Warriors I definitely see them having a shot. And the year after that? I like our chances against Toronto or the GSW.

The guy we saw in Boston was a shell of what Hayward was before his injury.

Yeah, and when he left and they replaced him with a rookie and they were basically the same level of team (actually with Gobert healthy, they were on pace for a better season, but Rudy only played 56 games during Mitchell's rookie year).  And the Jazz got blown off the court by the Warriors getting swept and losing every game by double digits.

Neither Hayward nor Irving were ever good enough players to be the main piece of a title contender and Boston quite simply lacked the #1 guy they would have needed to beat true title contenders.  On some level, those Boston teams were actually better off without the vets as they played a much more free system and weren't nearly as predictable. 

[Hoopvortex]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

Bottom line, the Hayward injury cost us at least one title. That’s not Ainge’s fault.

His worst decision, tho it was understandable, was trading for Kyrie. I wish Cleveland had bailed him out by refusing to set a reasonable price and effectively blowing up the deal. Almost anything else Ainge could’ve done would have come out better. Look at who was available with that 8th pick - SGA, Miles Bridges. Or maybe we trade it for a vet with less upside talent but a stable, team-building personality. It all ends a lot better.

Did it?  Even if Boston made it out of the east, was Boston going to beat the Warriors?  That seems highly unlikely to me.

It did not. Hayward was never a great fit on the C’s even when he was healthy. They were not winning a title with that group.

This is a silly take since he was healthy for all of five minutes on the 2017-2018 team that was a quarter away from the NBA finals.

If you believe the C’s would have beaten the Warriors in the Finals that year, then I have some swampland in Louisiana I’d like to sell you.

Since he didn’t claim that, you might have to hang on to that swampland a little longer.

[sgrogan]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

Bottom line, the Hayward injury cost us at least one title. That’s not Ainge’s fault.

His worst decision, tho it was understandable, was trading for Kyrie. I wish Cleveland had bailed him out by refusing to set a reasonable price and effectively blowing up the deal. Almost anything else Ainge could’ve done would have come out better. Look at who was available with that 8th pick - SGA, Miles Bridges. Or maybe we trade it for a vet with less upside talent but a stable, team-building personality. It all ends a lot better.

Did it?  Even if Boston made it out of the east, was Boston going to beat the Warriors?  That seems highly unlikely to me.

It did not. Hayward was never a great fit on the C’s even when he was healthy. They were not winning a title with that group.

This is a silly take since he was healthy for all of five minutes on the 2017-2018 team that was a quarter away from the NBA finals.

If you believe the C’s would have beaten the Warriors in the Finals that year, then I have some swampland in Louisiana I’d like to sell you.

I’m buying, because I bet there’s oil under the land you didn’t know about.

People forget how good GH was before his leg exploded. In 2017 he carried a Jazz team with very little talent to the second round, where he scored 25ppg against the GSW (on 18 attempts) and added four boards and four assists. He stood out. Add that player to the deep talented Boston team of 2018, and while I’m not 100% they would have beaten the Warriors I definitely see them having a shot. And the year after that? I like our chances against Toronto or the GSW.

The guy we saw in Boston was a shell of what Hayward was before his injury.

Yeah, and when he left and they replaced him with a rookie and they were basically the same level of team (actually with Gobert healthy, they were on pace for a better season, but Rudy only played 56 games during Mitchell's rookie year).  And the Jazz got blown off the court by the Warriors getting swept and losing every game by double digits.

Neither Hayward nor Irving were ever good enough players to be the main piece of a title contender and Boston quite simply lacked the #1 guy they would have needed to beat true title contenders.  On some level, those Boston teams were actually better off without the vets as they played a much more free system and weren't nearly as predictable.

There are 8 active MVP's.
LeBron, Curry, Giannis, Rose, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Jokic

I'll concede I didn't get them all wrong. Did you get them all right?

[Moranis]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

Bottom line, the Hayward injury cost us at least one title. That’s not Ainge’s fault.

His worst decision, tho it was understandable, was trading for Kyrie. I wish Cleveland had bailed him out by refusing to set a reasonable price and effectively blowing up the deal. Almost anything else Ainge could’ve done would have come out better. Look at who was available with that 8th pick - SGA, Miles Bridges. Or maybe we trade it for a vet with less upside talent but a stable, team-building personality. It all ends a lot better.

Did it?  Even if Boston made it out of the east, was Boston going to beat the Warriors?  That seems highly unlikely to me.

It did not. Hayward was never a great fit on the C’s even when he was healthy. They were not winning a title with that group.

This is a silly take since he was healthy for all of five minutes on the 2017-2018 team that was a quarter away from the NBA finals.

If you believe the C’s would have beaten the Warriors in the Finals that year, then I have some swampland in Louisiana I’d like to sell you.

I’m buying, because I bet there’s oil under the land you didn’t know about.

People forget how good GH was before his leg exploded. In 2017 he carried a Jazz team with very little talent to the second round, where he scored 25ppg against the GSW (on 18 attempts) and added four boards and four assists. He stood out. Add that player to the deep talented Boston team of 2018, and while I’m not 100% they would have beaten the Warriors I definitely see them having a shot. And the year after that? I like our chances against Toronto or the GSW.

The guy we saw in Boston was a shell of what Hayward was before his injury.

Yeah, and when he left and they replaced him with a rookie and they were basically the same level of team (actually with Gobert healthy, they were on pace for a better season, but Rudy only played 56 games during Mitchell's rookie year).  And the Jazz got blown off the court by the Warriors getting swept and losing every game by double digits.

Neither Hayward nor Irving were ever good enough players to be the main piece of a title contender and Boston quite simply lacked the #1 guy they would have needed to beat true title contenders.  On some level, those Boston teams were actually better off without the vets as they played a much more free system and weren't nearly as predictable.

There are 8 active MVP's.
LeBron, Curry, Giannis, Rose, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Jokic

I'll concede I didn't get them all wrong. Did you get them all right?

what does that have to do with my post?

[Goldstar88]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

Bottom line, the Hayward injury cost us at least one title. That’s not Ainge’s fault.

His worst decision, tho it was understandable, was trading for Kyrie. I wish Cleveland had bailed him out by refusing to set a reasonable price and effectively blowing up the deal. Almost anything else Ainge could’ve done would have come out better. Look at who was available with that 8th pick - SGA, Miles Bridges. Or maybe we trade it for a vet with less upside talent but a stable, team-building personality. It all ends a lot better.

Did it?  Even if Boston made it out of the east, was Boston going to beat the Warriors?  That seems highly unlikely to me.

It did not. Hayward was never a great fit on the C’s even when he was healthy. They were not winning a title with that group.

This is a silly take since he was healthy for all of five minutes on the 2017-2018 team that was a quarter away from the NBA finals.

If you believe the C’s would have beaten the Warriors in the Finals that year, then I have some swampland in Louisiana I’d like to sell you.

I’m buying, because I bet there’s oil under the land you didn’t know about.

People forget how good GH was before his leg exploded. In 2017 he carried a Jazz team with very little talent to the second round, where he scored 25ppg against the GSW (on 18 attempts) and added four boards and four assists. He stood out. Add that player to the deep talented Boston team of 2018, and while I’m not 100% they would have beaten the Warriors I definitely see them having a shot. And the year after that? I like our chances against Toronto or the GSW.

The guy we saw in Boston was a shell of what Hayward was before his injury.

You give me the best version of Gordon Hayward and they still ain’t beating that Warriors team. GS swept Prime LBJ and his Cavs in the Finals that year. 2018 Warriors squad was one of best teams of all time.

[Roy H.]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

Bottom line, the Hayward injury cost us at least one title. That’s not Ainge’s fault.

His worst decision, tho it was understandable, was trading for Kyrie. I wish Cleveland had bailed him out by refusing to set a reasonable price and effectively blowing up the deal. Almost anything else Ainge could’ve done would have come out better. Look at who was available with that 8th pick - SGA, Miles Bridges. Or maybe we trade it for a vet with less upside talent but a stable, team-building personality. It all ends a lot better.

Did it?  Even if Boston made it out of the east, was Boston going to beat the Warriors?  That seems highly unlikely to me.

It did not. Hayward was never a great fit on the C’s even when he was healthy. They were not winning a title with that group.

This is a silly take since he was healthy for all of five minutes on the 2017-2018 team that was a quarter away from the NBA finals.

If you believe the C’s would have beaten the Warriors in the Finals that year, then I have some swampland in Louisiana I’d like to sell you.

I’m buying, because I bet there’s oil under the land you didn’t know about.

People forget how good GH was before his leg exploded. In 2017 he carried a Jazz team with very little talent to the second round, where he scored 25ppg against the GSW (on 18 attempts) and added four boards and four assists. He stood out. Add that player to the deep talented Boston team of 2018, and while I’m not 100% they would have beaten the Warriors I definitely see them having a shot. And the year after that? I like our chances against Toronto or the GSW.

The guy we saw in Boston was a shell of what Hayward was before his injury.

You give me the best version of Gordon Hayward and they still ain’t beating that Warriors team. GS swept Prime LBJ and his Cavs in the Finals that year. 2018 Warriors squad was one of best teams of all time.

In fairness, that team was 33 year old Lebron and a bunch of scrubs.  Kevin Love was the only player other than LJ to score in double digits for the Cavs that playoff season.  Love averaged 14.9 points on 39.2% shooting. 

But, the 2018 Warriors were indeed stacked.

[Moranis]

I applaud Danny for effort, but acquiring Kyrie then Kemba have been significant parts of the demise of all the promise this era once had.

It’s hard to recover from major mistakes in the NBA. The other major mistake was GH - mistake meaning big expenditure diidn’t work for whatever reason.  Lakers are the only franchise where mistakes don’t really matter - they can always retool with top tier players within a few years.

What mistake did DA make with Hayward?

Kemba is debatable. Kyrie...also debatable - getting a top 10 or 20 or whatever talent-level player for such little cost.

Bottom line, the Hayward injury cost us at least one title. That’s not Ainge’s fault.

His worst decision, tho it was understandable, was trading for Kyrie. I wish Cleveland had bailed him out by refusing to set a reasonable price and effectively blowing up the deal. Almost anything else Ainge could’ve done would have come out better. Look at who was available with that 8th pick - SGA, Miles Bridges. Or maybe we trade it for a vet with less upside talent but a stable, team-building personality. It all ends a lot better.

Did it?  Even if Boston made it out of the east, was Boston going to beat the Warriors?  That seems highly unlikely to me.

It did not. Hayward was never a great fit on the C’s even when he was healthy. They were not winning a title with that group.

This is a silly take since he was healthy for all of five minutes on the 2017-2018 team that was a quarter away from the NBA finals.

If you believe the C’s would have beaten the Warriors in the Finals that year, then I have some swampland in Louisiana I’d like to sell you.

I’m buying, because I bet there’s oil under the land you didn’t know about.

People forget how good GH was before his leg exploded. In 2017 he carried a Jazz team with very little talent to the second round, where he scored 25ppg against the GSW (on 18 attempts) and added four boards and four assists. He stood out. Add that player to the deep talented Boston team of 2018, and while I’m not 100% they would have beaten the Warriors I definitely see them having a shot. And the year after that? I like our chances against Toronto or the GSW.

The guy we saw in Boston was a shell of what Hayward was before his injury.

You give me the best version of Gordon Hayward and they still ain’t beating that Warriors team. GS swept Prime LBJ and his Cavs in the Finals that year. 2018 Warriors squad was one of best teams of all time.

In fairness, that team was 33 year old Lebron and a bunch of scrubs.  Kevin Love was the only player other than LJ to score in double digits for the Cavs that playoff season.  Love averaged 14.9 points on 39.2% shooting. 

But, the 2018 Warriors were indeed stacked.

The thing is, the Celtics lost in 5 to the Bucks in the conference semis the year after that.  And I know Hayward wasn't the same level of player post injury, but he did play in 72 games and all 9 playoff games.  Irving was healthy.  Horford was healthy.  Brown and Tatum were healthy.  Morris and Rozier were healthy.  Smart was the only rotation player that wasn't healthy (played just 2 of the 5 games), and a pretty young Giannis just blitzed them off the court. 

Boston hasn't had a good enough team to win a title since KG got old because they haven't had a top 5 player since KG got old.  I know people get tired of me harping on that, but the simple reality is, those are the guys that not only win championships, but also generally play for them.  There are certainly flukes every once in awhile, but by and large if you don't have a top 5 type player, you aren't a contender and have no shot at a title.