Author Topic: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article  (Read 4476 times)

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Re: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2021, 01:53:42 PM »

Offline colincb

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Wasn't impressed by the article for a number of reasons. It's long, all over the place, and yet misses a lot of context.

Re: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2021, 03:11:18 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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Nonsense.  We heard the same criticism of Paul Pierce. 

I’d love to see the name of the “Eastern Conference assistant coach”.  I’m sure he’s a real winner.
Considering the army of assistant coaches that most NBA teams have right now, it's not shocking that someone might have an extreme opinion or two along with an urge to give a reporter some 'dirt' to maybe elevate their own stature one day.  Most of these guys want to get noticed so they can move their way up the food chain to eventually becoming a head coach. Dishing to a reporter or two consistently is one way to get them on your side and maybe promoting you at some point.

Re: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2021, 03:15:57 PM »

Offline ozgod

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https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32701015/the-ever-tinkering-boston-celtics-rocky-road-back-nba-finals-contention

"Jayson Tatum is about Jayson Tatum," an Eastern Conference assistant coach said. "I don't think he cares about winning now, and if he does, it is on his terms.

"He doesn't want to score 15 and win. He wants to score 39 and win."

What do you think?  Is this too harsh a criticism? Has Tatum taken steps to become a facilitator, to put the team first? I think he has.

I think that's pretty harsh. But it came from an unnamed league executive so there is that.

Apparently the Celtics track a metric called "expected points" which is essentially measuring the quality of the shots they get. In other words if they "expect" to score points. Apparently the delta between these "expected points" and actual points (those that are actually scored) is quite high this year because they've been missing shots they should be making. Obviously actual points are what count but if they made a few more of these so called "expected points" maybe the assist numbers for the Jays would be higher.

Personally I don't mind these articles - they're great locker room fodder for the team, and they lower expectations...and being underdogs is just how I like the Cs  :angel:
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2021, 03:16:41 PM »

Offline #1P4P

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Bontemps and ESPN posted this article about 3 weeks late... terrible timing. With better timing, it would've actually looked like a journalistic piece instead of a ill-timed hit piece. Aside from omitting facts and skewing context, the author also glosses over:

Quote
Over the past three weeks, Boston has the NBA's best defensive rating, as well as the third-best net rating -- trailing the league's two best teams so far, the Golden State Warriors and Phoenix Suns.

That one quote squashes the tenor of the rest of the article. Rookie coach, 3 new rotation players, new system, and Brown is 25, Tatum 23, and Smart 27 and have already been key pieces for 2 trips to the Conference Finals in the past 4 years with a different supporting cast for each trip (which is only equaled by the Warriors (with KD) in the same timeframe).

Re: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2021, 03:19:25 PM »

Offline ozgod

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Bontemps and ESPN posted this article about 3 weeks late... terrible timing. With better timing, it would've actually looked like a journalistic piece instead of a ill-timed hit piece. Aside from omitting facts and skewing context, the author also glosses over:

Quote
Over the past three weeks, Boston has the NBA's best defensive rating, as well as the third-best net rating -- trailing the league's two best teams so far, the Golden State Warriors and Phoenix Suns.

That one quote squashes the tenor of the rest of the article. Rookie coach, 3 new rotation players, new system, and Brown is 25, Tatum 23, and Smart 27 and have already been key pieces for 2 trips to the Conference Finals in the past 4 years with a different supporting cast for each trip (which is only equaled by the Warriors (with KD) in the same timeframe).

Yes it sounds like it would have been great if it had come out a few weeks earlier. He probably wrote it then, the situation changed, he didn't want to scrap it but had to update it with the current situation but all those quotes he got look like they were provided back when the team was flailing. Heck we were making a lot of those types of quotes about the team here 3 weeks ago  :police:
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2021, 03:56:24 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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I don’t think it totally untrue. Maybe a little strong but I feel similar about most young players Tatum’s age. They want to prove that they “belong” and be recognized by the likes of Durant etc. Tatum is no different. He’s 23. He’ll get it. It took Pierce years to figure it out. Same with other star players in the past. JB and JT aren’t surrounded by MVP players to pick them up and show them the ropes to “figuring it out”.

I do not agree with the part about not caring about winning. Seems odd considering the Cs relative success since Tatum joined the team.

Re: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2021, 03:56:33 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Nonsense.  We heard the same criticism of Paul Pierce. 

I’d love to see the name of the “Eastern Conference assistant coach”.  I’m sure he’s a real winner.
Are there any Eastern Conference assistant coaches we ignored in favour of Udoka, a hiring driven by Tatum?
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Re: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2021, 05:37:02 PM »

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https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32701015/the-ever-tinkering-boston-celtics-rocky-road-back-nba-finals-contention

"Jayson Tatum is about Jayson Tatum," an Eastern Conference assistant coach said. "I don't think he cares about winning now, and if he does, it is on his terms.

"He doesn't want to score 15 and win. He wants to score 39 and win."

What do you think?  Is this too harsh a criticism? Has Tatum taken steps to become a facilitator, to put the team first? I think he has.

M8 that's nothing you should see some of the stuff people on CelticsStrong say!

:]

(Concur with the aforementioned "whos saying these things?" comments. Loud piece being loud for the sake of it. Ignore, move on! :D)

Re: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2021, 07:05:41 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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Tatum is never going to be that natural transitional player like Bird, Magic, Mike and LeBron. Those players don't grow of tree's.

IMO he actually did try to become that all-around facilitator at the beginning of the season, or at least he gave it lip-service. He found that it was much more difficult than he anticipated and it effected his scoring far too much. At this point he's more just kinda thinking about it, which is an improvement for a 23 year old.   

Have no worries, he'll be going back to being "JT" the face of the Boston Celtics, he'll sell some chips and dip, remain a member of that elite NBA All-star club, hug his fellow opposing all-stars at the beginning and then again at the end of every game... Win, Lose, or Draw. Perhaps even take them to dinner after the game. He is quite affable.

It doesn't mean you can't win with him, he needs to be surrounded with players that can keep him grounded and who can do the things he can't.

Think of him as Paul Pierce without KG, Rondo and Ray Allen. 

Re: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2021, 07:18:05 PM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Nonsense.  We heard the same criticism of Paul Pierce. 

I’d love to see the name of the “Eastern Conference assistant coach”.  I’m sure he’s a real winner.

Who's to say that assistant coach isn't part of the Celtics? It could be the coaches can't get their message through, and are trying a different method with being called out in public.

Re: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2021, 06:55:58 AM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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I don’t think it totally untrue. Maybe a little strong but I feel similar about most young players Tatum’s age. They want to prove that they “belong” and be recognized by the likes of Durant etc. Tatum is no different. He’s 23. He’ll get it. It took Pierce years to figure it out. Same with other star players in the past. JB and JT aren’t surrounded by MVP players to pick them up and show them the ropes to “figuring it out”.

I do not agree with the part about not caring about winning.
Seems odd considering the Cs relative success since Tatum joined the team.


Paul Pierce would never have figured anything out if not for Kevin Garnett.

I was all for getting rid of these scoring, ball-dominant point guards and building around Tatum and Brown. I still think that a playmaking point guard is the way to go, but I'm not so sure anymore that the J's have the ability to lead us back to title contention. Maybe they are too redundant to compliment each other the way past Celtic duos have. Other than Marcus Smart, there is not really a fierce competitor on this team and he runs hot & cold and up to this season, has been a dumb basketball player.

Tatum may be seen as untouchable, but imagine the haul of assets he could bring in a trade. Or possibly, he could return us that one tough-minded, talented competitor + draft picks to help this team find its way. The Celts would retain Smart and Brown as compliments to this new and younger version of a  KG/Jimmy Butler type star whose only priority is winning a title.

Probably never happen, then again, it could be that the only way to become serious contenders again is a major shakeup.
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Re: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2021, 08:16:02 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

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The whole article is extremely negative.
Is it really? The fundamentals of it are:

- Cs haven’t done great in FA or Draft recently
- Jury is out on whether Tatum can play winning basketball as the leader of the Cs
- Cs are a tier below Eastern Conference elite (Nets, Bucks)

All of this is correct, none of it is controversial — even if Celtics-strong doesn’t like it because folks here spend a lot of time talking about / hoping for this tram.

« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 08:33:43 AM by todd_days_41 »

Re: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2021, 08:54:59 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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I don’t think it totally untrue. Maybe a little strong but I feel similar about most young players Tatum’s age. They want to prove that they “belong” and be recognized by the likes of Durant etc. Tatum is no different. He’s 23. He’ll get it. It took Pierce years to figure it out. Same with other star players in the past. JB and JT aren’t surrounded by MVP players to pick them up and show them the ropes to “figuring it out”.

I do not agree with the part about not caring about winning.
Seems odd considering the Cs relative success since Tatum joined the team.


Paul Pierce would never have figured anything out if not for Kevin Garnett.

I was all for getting rid of these scoring, ball-dominant point guards and building around Tatum and Brown. I still think that a playmaking point guard is the way to go, but I'm not so sure anymore that the J's have the ability to lead us back to title contention. Maybe they are too redundant to compliment each other the way past Celtic duos have. Other than Marcus Smart, there is not really a fierce competitor on this team and he runs hot & cold and up to this season, has been a dumb basketball player.

Tatum may be seen as untouchable, but imagine the haul of assets he could bring in a trade. Or possibly, he could return us that one tough-minded, talented competitor + draft picks to help this team find its way. The Celts would retain Smart and Brown as compliments to this new and younger version of a  KG/Jimmy Butler type star whose only priority is winning a title.

Probably never happen, then again, it could be that the only way to become serious contenders again is a major shakeup.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I have serious doubts about trading Tatum for assets (because, in all likelihood, they're not going to net a player as good as Tatum is now) and I'm not sure that a similar player to New KG exists in the league right now.
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Re: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2021, 09:57:15 AM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Nonsense.  We heard the same criticism of Paul Pierce. 

Will Tatum need the same thing Pierce did (a better player to come in and anchor the team, plus another HOFer) to be successful?

Re: Brutal Quote about Tatum in latest ESPN article
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2021, 11:08:03 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Nonsense.  We heard the same criticism of Paul Pierce. 

Will Tatum need the same thing Pierce did (a better player to come in and anchor the team, plus another HOFer) to be successful?

Like just about every player in the NBA you mean?