Author Topic: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)  (Read 6926 times)

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Re: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2021, 03:35:24 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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I'd be pretty surprised if Dwight didn't make the top 75. His case is pretty hard to argue against.
It's actually pretty easy as long as you take raw numbers and accolades with a grain of salt. Personally speaking, I focus on each player's skill set. Howard is gifted with amazing physical tools, but he's a very limited offensive player. Embiid is a generational talent on offense and a great rim protector on defense (although he's a limited defender on the perimeter). To put it another way, Howard was a poor man's Gobert. Embiid is a poor man's Hakeem with 3pt range. It's rather obvious who's the better player. Howard was putting up decent scoring numbers in Orlando, but their whole offense was built around him. Basketball was played quite differently at the time. No way an unskilled big like Howard would be the focal point of a team's offense in the pace-and-space era.

Another example is Russell Westbrook. Going by his raw numbers and accolades, you can argue he's a GOAT candidate. If you actually focus on his game, he's a selfish, inefficient choker who kills team chemistry. Feel free to believe he should make the top 75.

Don't get me wrong, it's totally possible that both Howard and Westbrook will make the top 75. Just because they'll likely make the list, it doesn't necessarily mean they deserve it.


His 12.07 rpg is 19th all time (and he is 11th in total rebounds) and the only players on the list ahead of him with the meat of their careers after the 60's, are Drummond, Cowens, Rodman, Hayes, and Moses.
Do you think Andre Drummond is a top 75 player in NBA history? If not, I hope you realize how misleading these raw numbers can be.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 03:58:44 AM by Jvalin »

Re: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2021, 08:53:25 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I'd be pretty surprised if Dwight didn't make the top 75. His case is pretty hard to argue against.
It's actually pretty easy as long as you take raw numbers and accolades with a grain of salt. Personally speaking, I focus on each player's skill set. Howard is gifted with amazing physical tools, but he's a very limited offensive player. Embiid is a generational talent on offense and a great rim protector on defense (although he's a limited defender on the perimeter). To put it another way, Howard was a poor man's Gobert. Embiid is a poor man's Hakeem with 3pt range. It's rather obvious who's the better player. Howard was putting up decent scoring numbers in Orlando, but their whole offense was built around him. Basketball was played quite differently at the time. No way an unskilled big like Howard would be the focal point of a team's offense in the pace-and-space era.

Another example is Russell Westbrook. Going by his raw numbers and accolades, you can argue he's a GOAT candidate. If you actually focus on his game, he's a selfish, inefficient choker who kills team chemistry. Feel free to believe he should make the top 75.

Don't get me wrong, it's totally possible that both Howard and Westbrook will make the top 75. Just because they'll likely make the list, it doesn't necessarily mean they deserve it.


His 12.07 rpg is 19th all time (and he is 11th in total rebounds) and the only players on the list ahead of him with the meat of their careers after the 60's, are Drummond, Cowens, Rodman, Hayes, and Moses.
Do you think Andre Drummond is a top 75 player in NBA history? If not, I hope you realize how misleading these raw numbers can be.
You are seriously underrating just how dominant Dwight Howard was.  He was the best player and anchor on a team that won 59 games in consecutive years, making the Finals once and the ECF the other season.  Calling him a poor man's Gobert is incredibly disrespectful and just not borne in any sort of reality.  The Magic in their entire history have had 8 seasons of at least a 60% win percentage, 4 with Howard and 3 with Shaq (the strike shortened 99 season was the other when they were 33-17).  They've won 11 playoff series ever, 6 with Howard, 5 with Shaq.  During his 7 year prime, he averaged 19.8 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 2.4 bpg, 1.6 apg, 1.1 spg and his teams made the playoffs every season, winning at least 50 games 5 of those 7 years and never less than a 45 win pace.  In addition to his elite defense as he won 3 DPOY.  He has 5 1st Team All NBA and 4 1st Team All Defense, along with a 2nd Team and 2 3rd Teams and another 2nd Team Defense to go along with his 8 All Star appearances. 

He is obviously a player whose style of player doesn't fit quite as well today, but he is also still contributing as a rotation player on winning teams (including winning a championship with the Lakers) and has only missed the playoffs 3 times in his entire career (his 1st 2 seasons and 2018 when he was on the Hornets). 

Howard has also taken incredible care of his body and has missed very few games (especially compared to other big men).  You could pencil him just about every night. 


If this was 5 years from now, then maybe Embiid, Jokic, and some of the other guys would have a case to be on the list, but this isn't 5 years from now.  Howard is far more deserving of making the list than Embiid is and it isn't close.  You have to take career accolades and stats into account or what is the point of keeping track of that stuff.   
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2021, 08:02:34 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Well no Howard, but none of those other guys we were talking about.  Pretty surprised that Lillard made it.  Not really surprised Reggie Miller made it, though I wouldn't have put him on.  They added Dominique, Reggie, McAdoo, and Rodman from guys that were done or mostly done at the time of the top 50. 

The last 25

Ray Allen
Carmelo
Elgin
Bing
Kobe
Cunningham
Curry
A. Davis
DeBusschere
Lebron
Kidd
Kawhi
Dame
Maravich
McAdoo
Reggie
Monroe
Shaq
Payton
Pierce
Schayes
Wade
Russ
Wilkens
Nique

So they kept the original 50 in tact.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2021, 12:08:12 AM »

Offline Celtic Fan Forever

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Anthony Davis making it over far more deserving big men like Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol is nonsensical to me.
2023 CelticsStrong Historical Draft Champions - OKC Thunder
PG: Chauncey Billups/ Baron Davis
SG: Michael Redd/ Dan Majerle/ Allan Houston
SF: Peja Stojakovic/ Gerald Wallace/ Toni Kukoc
PF: Shawn Kemp/ Antonio McDyess
C: Dwight Howard/ Tyson Chandler

Re: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2021, 06:22:33 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Anthony Davis making it over far more deserving big men like Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol is nonsensical to me.
yep.  No Vince Carter ot TMac either.  No Tony Parker.  Some weird selections.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2021, 07:49:34 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Dame Lillard making it, also very strange.  Reggie Miller though is the one I just don't understand.  5 All Star games, only 3 3rd Team All NBA.  No awards of any kind.  No championships.  Was never even in the top 10 in any meaningful statistical category.  Obviously had a couple of amazing playoff performances, but that shouldn't make you a top 75 player. 

It seems like Dwight and Vince got hurt for not retiring and having a nice career as a role player, which is a shame.  And Pau, he never got the respect he deserved on the Lakers and now is incredibly disrespected again.  Just an awful list.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2021, 02:42:03 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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Elgin Baylor not in the top 50 seems wrong.
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Re: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2021, 03:09:41 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Well no Howard, but none of those other guys we were talking about.  Pretty surprised that Lillard made it.  Not really surprised Reggie Miller made it, though I wouldn't have put him on.  They added Dominique, Reggie, McAdoo, and Rodman from guys that were done or mostly done at the time of the top 50. 

The last 25

Ray Allen
Carmelo
Elgin
Bing
Kobe
Cunningham
Curry
A. Davis
DeBusschere
Lebron
Kidd
Kawhi
Dame
Maravich
McAdoo
Reggie
Monroe
Shaq
Payton
Pierce
Schayes
Wade
Russ
Wilkens
Nique

So they kept the original 50 in tact.

I generally agree with you that howard should have made it. Only thing I can think of is howard has had a weird career. He made his last all star game at 28. I am curious how many others on the list made their last all star game that young. (I’m also sure his personality may have played a small role cause he was kind of a cancer in multiple stops).

Re: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2021, 03:27:22 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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So 20 players who suited up for the Celtics at some point on this list?  That's pretty impressive


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2021, 06:14:53 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Seeing lots of anger about Walton being on the list over Dwight. Feel as if people have forgotten how good Walton was in the 70s
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2021, 07:19:35 PM »

Offline liam

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Chris Mannix just said that Kyrie should be on the list instead of Bob Cousey. Chris might want to move to Brooklyn. If Kyrie couldn't carry the ball like they let players do now, where would he be? Remember when Bob Cousey let his team down in the playoffs? Remember when Bob Cousey wouldn't get a vaccine and let his team down? Remember when Kyrie won 6 rings? Yeah, me either. How does Mannix have a job???


Someone should be on TV beside Mannix.

Re: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2021, 07:22:15 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Chris Mannix just said that Kyrie should be on the list instead of Bob Cousey. Chris might want to move to Brooklyn. If Kyrie couldn't carry the ball like they let players do now, where would he be? Remember when Bob Cousey let his team down in the playoffs? Remember when Bob Cousey wouldn't get a vaccine and let his team down? Remember when Kyrie won 6 rings? Yeah, me either. How does Mannix have a job???
That is a disgraceful opinion from Mannix
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2021, 07:23:24 PM »

Offline liam

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Chris Mannix just said that Kyrie should be on the list instead of Bob Cousey. Chris might want to move to Brooklyn. If Kyrie couldn't carry the ball like they let players do now, where would he be? Remember when Bob Cousey let his team down in the playoffs? Remember when Bob Cousey wouldn't get a vaccine and let his team down? Remember when Kyrie won 6 rings? Yeah, me either. How does Mannix have a job???
That is a disgraceful opinion from Mannix

Disgraceful and just plain ignorant. How do you get paid to talk about basketball and know nothing???


1951   NBA Rookie of the Year Award
1952-61   All-NBA First Team
1953   Set playoff record for most free throws made (30) and attempted (32)
1953-60   Led NBA in assists
1954, 1957   NBA All-Star Game Most Valuable Player
1957   NBA Most Valuable Player
1959   Single game record for most assists (19) in one half
1962-63   All-NBA Second Team



Re: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2021, 07:28:36 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Chris Mannix just said that Kyrie should be on the list instead of Bob Cousey. Chris might want to move to Brooklyn. If Kyrie couldn't carry the ball like they let players do now, where would he be? Remember when Bob Cousey let his team down in the playoffs? Remember when Bob Cousey wouldn't get a vaccine and let his team down? Remember when Kyrie won 6 rings? Yeah, me either. How does Mannix have a job???
That is a disgraceful opinion from Mannix

Disgraceful and just plain ignorant. How do you get paid to talk about basketball and know nothing???


1951   NBA Rookie of the Year Award
1952-61   All-NBA First Team
1953   Set playoff record for most free throws made (30) and attempted (32)
1953-60   Led NBA in assists
1954, 1957   NBA All-Star Game Most Valuable Player
1957   NBA Most Valuable Player
1959   Single game record for most assists (19) in one half
1962-63   All-NBA Second Team
Yeah, you don't fluke 6 rings, 12 All-NBA appearances and 8 assist championships. Compared to Kyrie's 3 All-NBA appearances and 1 ring.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: NBA's top 75 (top 50 released)
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2021, 07:33:32 PM »

Offline liam

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Chris Mannix just said that Kyrie should be on the list instead of Bob Cousey. Chris might want to move to Brooklyn. If Kyrie couldn't carry the ball like they let players do now, where would he be? Remember when Bob Cousey let his team down in the playoffs? Remember when Bob Cousey wouldn't get a vaccine and let his team down? Remember when Kyrie won 6 rings? Yeah, me either. How does Mannix have a job???
That is a disgraceful opinion from Mannix

Disgraceful and just plain ignorant. How do you get paid to talk about basketball and know nothing???


1951   NBA Rookie of the Year Award
1952-61   All-NBA First Team
1953   Set playoff record for most free throws made (30) and attempted (32)
1953-60   Led NBA in assists
1954, 1957   NBA All-Star Game Most Valuable Player
1957   NBA Most Valuable Player
1959   Single game record for most assists (19) in one half
1962-63   All-NBA Second Team
Yeah, you don't fluke 6 rings, 12 All-NBA appearances and 8 assist championships. Compared to Kyrie's 3 All-NBA appearances and 1 ring.

It's not even a little close and he singles out Cousy. Next, he'll say Bam should be there instead of Russell.