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Celtics to pick 15 Greatest Players
« on: October 16, 2021, 07:46:59 AM »

Offline Big333223

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As part of the 75th anniversary, the Celtics are going to announce their 15 greatest players.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/lists/boston-celtics-announce-activities-to-celebrate-nbas-75th-anniversary-season/

I think there are 11 obvious guys:
Bob Cousy, Bill Russell, Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, John Havlicek, Dave Cowens, Jo Jo White, Larry Bird, Kevin Mchale, Robert Parish, Paul Pierce.

That leaves 4 spots for:
Ed Macauley, Bill Sharman, KC Jones, Frank Ramsey, Cedric Maxwell, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Rajon Rondo, and Kevin Garnett.

EDIT: Reggie Lewis, Antoine Walker, and Ray Allen I was reminded should be candidates as well but I think my final four are Bill Sharman, Dennis Johnson,  Rajon Rondo, and Kevin Garnett.

Who you got?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 02:23:03 PM by Big333223 »
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Re: Celtics to pick 15 Greatest Players
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2021, 09:23:33 AM »

Offline hardlyyardley

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DJ, KG, Ramsey, Max

Re: Celtics to pick 15 Greatest Players
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2021, 09:36:37 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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As part of the 75th anniversary, the Celtics are going to announce their 15 greatest players.

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/lists/boston-celtics-announce-activities-to-celebrate-nbas-75th-anniversary-season/

I think there are 11 obvious guys:
Bob Cousy, Bill Russell, Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, John Havlicek, Dave Cowens, Jo Jo White, Larry Bird, Kevin Mchale, Robert Parish, Paul Pierce.

That leaves 4 spots for:
Ed Macauley, Bill Sharman, KC Jones, Frank Ramsey, Cedric Maxwell, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Rajon Rondo, and Kevin Garnett.

Who you got?
How is KG not a lock? Not even an honorable mention for Ray?

Talent-wise, Tatum is definitely a top 15 Celtic in my book. I'd argue he might already be better than prime Pierce. Obviously, he hasn't won anything yet.

Re: Celtics to pick 15 Greatest Players
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2021, 10:48:30 AM »

Offline GreenShooter

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Reggie Lewis should be there. Len Bias would have been there.

KG and DJ belong on that list. Max and Ainge are about even but Max was great when he was healthy.

Edit: Sharman belongs over everyone else I can think of.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 10:54:31 AM by GreenShooter »

Re: Celtics to pick 15 Greatest Players
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2021, 10:53:22 AM »

Offline coco

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Re: Celtics to pick 15 Greatest Players
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2021, 11:11:06 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Tier 1
Bird, Russell, Havlicek

Tier 2
Cousy, Cowens, McHale, Pierce

Tier 3
S. Jones, White, Parish

Tier 4
Tommy, Sanders, DJ, KG, Toine


I think that is my list.  At least the top 2 players from every title and then guys that played a longer time or had great success.  I had a real hard time with that last spot, but went with Toine because I always loved Toine.  It will probably be Lewis as a result of his untimely death (or Rondo for recency bias), but for me I went with Toine's 8 seasons over Lewis' 6. 
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PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: Celtics to pick 15 Greatest Players
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2021, 11:56:15 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Bird, Russell, Havlicek, McHale, Heinsohn, Pierce, Cousy, Jo Jo, Max, Cowens, DJ, Parish, KG, Sam Jones, Sherman.

Re: Celtics to pick 15 Greatest Players
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2021, 12:24:26 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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1. Bird
2. Russell
3. Havlicek
4. McHale
5. Pierce
6. Cousy
7. Heinsohn
8. Cowens
9. Jones
10. Parish
11. Garnett
12. White
13. DJ
14. Sharman
15. Reggie

Re: Celtics to pick 15 Greatest Players
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2021, 12:40:08 PM »

Offline Silas

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Cousy, Heinsohn, Sharman, Russell, Sam Jones
MacCauley, Havlicek, White, Cowens, DJ
Bird, McHale, Pierce, Garnett, Parish
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 12:47:20 PM by Silas »
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Re: Celtics to pick 15 Greatest Players
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2021, 02:13:15 PM »

Offline Big333223

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How is KG not a lock? Not even an honorable mention for Ray?
I think you're right Ray deserves a mention, I added him to the OP.

KG isn't a lock for me because the rest of my locks are Celtic lifers. KG's 6 years is relatively short, but he did enough here to ultimately make my team, I think.

Tier 1
Bird, Russell, Havlicek

Tier 2
Cousy, Cowens, McHale, Pierce

Tier 3
S. Jones, White, Parish

Tier 4
Tommy, Sanders, DJ, KG, Toine


I think that is my list.  At least the top 2 players from every title and then guys that played a longer time or had great success.  I had a real hard time with that last spot, but went with Toine because I always loved Toine.  It will probably be Lewis as a result of his untimely death (or Rondo for recency bias), but for me I went with Toine's 8 seasons over Lewis' 6.

Antoine played 7 1/2 seasons (3 all stars), Rondo played 8 1/2 seasons (4 all stars and a championship). If anyone has Rondo over 'Toine I don't think it's recency bias.

I think my final four are Bill Sharman, Dennis Johnson,  Rajon Rondo, and Kevin Garnett. The hardest cut for me was Macauley but he'd be the only guy on the team with no ring.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 02:23:45 PM by Big333223 »
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Re: Celtics to pick 15 Greatest Players
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2021, 03:41:01 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Bird, Russell, Havlicek, McHale, Heinsohn, Pierce, Cousy, Jo Jo, Max, Cowens, DJ, Parish, KG, Sam Jones, Sherman.

That looks about right.  Max is the only guy Iím not sure about.  Thereís a lot of competition for that 15th spot.


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Re: Celtics to pick 15 Greatest Players
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2021, 04:05:14 PM »

Offline Silas

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Bird, Russell, Havlicek, McHale, Heinsohn, Pierce, Cousy, Jo Jo, Max, Cowens, DJ, Parish, KG, Sam Jones, Sherman.

That looks about right.  Max is the only guy Iím not sure about.  Thereís a lot of competition for that 15th spot.

I also agree but replaced Maxwell with Easy Ed.  He was all NBA first team 3 times and second team once.  Maybe most important he was traded for Russell.
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Re: Celtics to pick 15 Greatest Players
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2021, 06:07:26 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Bird, Russell, Havlicek, McHale, Heinsohn, Pierce, Cousy, Jo Jo, Max, Cowens, DJ, Parish, KG, Sam Jones, Sherman.

That looks about right.  Max is the only guy Iím not sure about.  Thereís a lot of competition for that 15th spot.

I also agree but replaced Maxwell with Easy Ed.  He was all NBA first team 3 times and second team once.  Maybe most important he was traded for Russell.
Max didn't do quite enough to get into the top 15 for me. He never made an all star game or all nba team. He won 2 rings with the Celtics but he was a good, maybe even very good, player who was never great. If he hadn't won that Finals MVP (that probably should be Bird's) I don't know that we're talking about him so much.

I have him behind Rondo and Macauley for sure.
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Re: Celtics to pick 15 Greatest Players
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2021, 06:23:28 PM »

Offline Moranis

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How is KG not a lock? Not even an honorable mention for Ray?
I think you're right Ray deserves a mention, I added him to the OP.

KG isn't a lock for me because the rest of my locks are Celtic lifers. KG's 6 years is relatively short, but he did enough here to ultimately make my team, I think.

Tier 1
Bird, Russell, Havlicek

Tier 2
Cousy, Cowens, McHale, Pierce

Tier 3
S. Jones, White, Parish

Tier 4
Tommy, Sanders, DJ, KG, Toine


I think that is my list.  At least the top 2 players from every title and then guys that played a longer time or had great success.  I had a real hard time with that last spot, but went with Toine because I always loved Toine.  It will probably be Lewis as a result of his untimely death (or Rondo for recency bias), but for me I went with Toine's 8 seasons over Lewis' 6.

Antoine played 7 1/2 seasons (3 all stars), Rondo played 8 1/2 seasons (4 all stars and a championship). If anyone has Rondo over 'Toine I don't think it's recency bias.

I think my final four are Bill Sharman, Dennis Johnson,  Rajon Rondo, and Kevin Garnett. The hardest cut for me was Macauley but he'd be the only guy on the team with no ring.
Rondo was the 5th most important player on that title team and he played less games that Walker did in Boston 552 to 527.  That's like saying KC Jones belongs on there because he won all of those titles.   In Boston, Toine has career averages of 20.6 ppg and 8.7 rpg those are respectively 6th and 8th.  Toine also cracks the top 10 with 1.5 spg coming in 7th (Rondo leads the franchise in both apg and spg).  Even if you look at totals and not averages, Toine is 10th in total rebounds, 2nd in 3 pointers made and attempted, and 5th in total steals.

I loved Toine (warts and all) and I do think people don't quite realize just high up the all time Celtics lists he is. 
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: Celtics to pick 15 Greatest Players
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2021, 05:08:38 PM »

Offline Big333223

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How is KG not a lock? Not even an honorable mention for Ray?
I think you're right Ray deserves a mention, I added him to the OP.

KG isn't a lock for me because the rest of my locks are Celtic lifers. KG's 6 years is relatively short, but he did enough here to ultimately make my team, I think.

Tier 1
Bird, Russell, Havlicek

Tier 2
Cousy, Cowens, McHale, Pierce

Tier 3
S. Jones, White, Parish

Tier 4
Tommy, Sanders, DJ, KG, Toine


I think that is my list.  At least the top 2 players from every title and then guys that played a longer time or had great success.  I had a real hard time with that last spot, but went with Toine because I always loved Toine.  It will probably be Lewis as a result of his untimely death (or Rondo for recency bias), but for me I went with Toine's 8 seasons over Lewis' 6.

Antoine played 7 1/2 seasons (3 all stars), Rondo played 8 1/2 seasons (4 all stars and a championship). If anyone has Rondo over 'Toine I don't think it's recency bias.

I think my final four are Bill Sharman, Dennis Johnson,  Rajon Rondo, and Kevin Garnett. The hardest cut for me was Macauley but he'd be the only guy on the team with no ring.
Rondo was the 5th most important player on that title team and he played less games that Walker did in Boston 552 to 527.  That's like saying KC Jones belongs on there because he won all of those titles.   In Boston, Toine has career averages of 20.6 ppg and 8.7 rpg those are respectively 6th and 8th.  Toine also cracks the top 10 with 1.5 spg coming in 7th (Rondo leads the franchise in both apg and spg).  Even if you look at totals and not averages, Toine is 10th in total rebounds, 2nd in 3 pointers made and attempted, and 5th in total steals.

I loved Toine (warts and all) and I do think people don't quite realize just high up the all time Celtics lists he is.
I also loved Toine. Too much attention gets paid to his bad shooting an not enough attention gets paid to how special he was in other areas. Underrated as a ballhandler and defender.

If you think the case for Antoine is stronger than the one for Rondo, ok, I disagree but I get it. Saying Rondo's selection would be recency bias doesn't hold water when Rondo was more accomplished with the Celtics than Walker was. 4 to 3 in all stars, 1 all nba to none, 4 all defense to none, Rondo twice led the league in assists and once in steals Walker never led the league in a category.

I like the advocating for Walker but let's not pretend Rondo didn't have a couple of great years in Boston.
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