Poll: There's Pretty Much Five Paths From Here. Which Path Would You Prefer?

[Chris22]

“Trade for AD and let Kyrie walk” should be labeled as the franchise suicide option.

Keeping Kyrie is the suicide option.

He couldn't stay healthy for his first playoffs, and he laid down like a dog in his second.

And you want to pay him over $100 million?

He just happened to be in a slump at the worse possible time. Sucks, but it does happen. I believe it happened to Kobe early in his career and also happened to Lillard last year.

Small guards don't win championships. Bigger players like Lebron, Leonard, Durant, etc...do.

Steph Curry says hello.

Also literally all those 3 had good-elite guards helping them

Did those guards lay down like dogs against the Bucks?

[gouki88]

“Trade for AD and let Kyrie walk” should be labeled as the franchise suicide option.

Keeping Kyrie is the suicide option.

He couldn't stay healthy for his first playoffs, and he laid down like a dog in his second.

And you want to pay him over $100 million?

He just happened to be in a slump at the worse possible time. Sucks, but it does happen. I believe it happened to Kobe early in his career and also happened to Lillard last year.

Small guards don't win championships. Bigger players like Lebron, Leonard, Durant, etc...do.

Steph Curry says hello.

Also literally all those 3 had good-elite guards helping them

Did those guards lay down like dogs against the Bucks?

Tony Parker had a garbage series against the Suns in 2003 - he had help around him to offset it.
Dwyane Wade had a poor series against Chicago in 2011 - he too had help around him.
Steph Curry in the 2016 Finals was quite bad - his help was insufficient and he lost.

You can go back and look at any star player and see instances of them failing, besides mythical-level of winners like Bill Russell. You only care about Kyrie because his is recent and you're biased against him

[mmmmm]

Does anyone still think Kyrie would resign with us?   The media kind of torched him and fans are pretty irate.

Only if Anthony Davis was a guarantee, considering they're friends.

I couldn't blame him though. People are holding him solely responsible for the mess that was this team, which is lunacy

I don't understand why people think it's unreasonable to hold Kyrie accountable when

(a) He literally said, all season long, that he was all about the playoffs and that the reason a team should want him on the roster is the playoffs

(b) He laid one of the all-time eggs in four straight games on the way to the Celtics getting totally trounced in a five by the Bucks.

(c) Afterward, he acted like it was no big deal and if he could do it all over again he wouldn't do anything differently -- "I would have shot more."


You can't expect to avoid major criticism when you spend all season acting like the regular season doesn't matter, chemistry doesn't matter, talking to the media doesn't matter, none of it matters because only the playoffs matter, AND THEN play like absolute dog crap in four straight games against a quality opponent.

Who said it was unreasonable to hold Kyrie accountable? He shares blame but that doesn’t mean he needs to be a scapegoat for all of the  Celtics problems.

In my mind any conversation about what went wrong this season that doesn't start and end with Kyrie is missing the point.


There was a lot of adversity facing the Celtics this year, but none of it was insurmountable except for the fact that the de facto franchise guy repeatedly torpedoed the team chemistry, hijacked the offense, undermined the coach, threw the young guys under the bus, and then when the time finally came for him to make good on the whole year worth of bluster about how he's a basketball genius born to make shots in the playoffs, he completely disappeared.

What happened was more complicated than just Kyrie, a combinations of egos out of control the coach failing to make the right decisions and a player like Hayward being played too soon. You’re angry about Kyrie I get that but this was more than just him. By the way I would like to see links to where Kyrie thinks he’s some basketball genius because that’s the first time that I’ve heard of it.

He literally said he was “actually a genius at this game” like 3 weeks ago in a press conference.

Oh okay, still think he shares the blame but not all of it.

Sure. Not all of it.  But it's a simple bit of math, right?   A 'star' player playing star minutes, taking the most shots, controlling the ball the most, etc., etc., should get the most credit when he plays well and the team wins, right?   Far more credit than some bench kid who takes a fraction of the shots, right?    That 'star' player gets rewarded with praise and all-star votes and $$$$.

Well, when that star plays poorly and the team doesn't win, it seems reasonable that he might get most of the blame.    Kyrie played pretty poorly in these playoffs and the team didn't win.   All while playing huge minutes and dominating control over the game.

It's certainly fair to point over at say, Rozier, Smart and Theis and notice that they shot pretty poorly in the MIL series as well.  Worse than even Kyrie.   But can you really say any of them had anywhere near the impact on the outcome that Kyrie did?  I mean, he touched the ball more than all of them combined.  He attempted almost 3 times as many scoring attempts as all of them combined.

So, sure.  Not all the blame.

[Phantom255x]

Yeah, I made this saying there's 5 paths. I kind of think after last night there's just 2-3 paths now 

[Csfan1984]

I think most things rest on KD. His decision will effect Irving and then based on that it may not be worth dealing for an AD rental. And AD will absolutely be a rental if this team doesn't have another elite guy playing here playing with him.

[JSD]

One of the best polls I’ve seen on here, so far very surprised by the result.

[RJ87]

“Trade for AD and let Kyrie walk” should be labeled as the franchise suicide option.

Keeping Kyrie is the suicide option.

He couldn't stay healthy for his first playoffs, and he laid down like a dog in his second.

And you want to pay him over $100 million?

He just happened to be in a slump at the worse possible time. Sucks, but it does happen. I believe it happened to Kobe early in his career and also happened to Lillard last year.

Small guards don't win championships. Bigger players like Lebron, Leonard, Durant, etc...do.

Steph Curry says hello.

Curry never won MVP of the Finals. Durant did.

Durant doesn't get a ring without Curry. Durant jumped on his bandwagon, not the other way around.

[PhoSita]

Sure. Not all of it.  But it's a simple bit of math, right?   A 'star' player playing star minutes, taking the most shots, controlling the ball the most, etc., etc., should get the most credit when he plays well and the team wins, right?   Far more credit than some bench kid who takes a fraction of the shots, right?    That 'star' player gets rewarded with praise and all-star votes and $$$$.

Well, when that star plays poorly and the team doesn't win, it seems reasonable that he might get most of the blame.    Kyrie played pretty poorly in these playoffs and the team didn't win.   All while playing huge minutes and dominating control over the game.

It's certainly fair to point over at say, Rozier, Smart and Theis and notice that they shot pretty poorly in the MIL series as well.  Worse than even Kyrie.   But can you really say any of them had anywhere near the impact on the outcome that Kyrie did?  I mean, he touched the ball more than all of them combined.  He attempted almost 3 times as many scoring attempts as all of them combined.

So, sure.  Not all the blame.

It's not just the on-court math.

Kyrie may not have wanted the responsibility, but the way this league works is that the guy on the team who gets his name in ads, movies, and billboards, the guy who scores the most points and generates the most highlights, has the most power over the narrative surrounding the team and the culture in the locker room.

Kyrie is not the only reason that the Celts were a hot mess on and off the court this year, but as the star of the franchise he had the most power over all of that, and pretty much everything he did this year contributed to the off-court stuff getting worse.  He did very little to improve or alleviate the tension and discord.  It's obvious that there were times when he was trying to make it better, but  his efforts either did not work or actively backfired.

[droopdog7]

One of the best polls I’ve seen on here, so far very surprised by the result.

I agree that it's a good, well thought out post.  But I'd day the results are about what I would have expected.  What surprises you about them?

[Donoghus]

I have to question the aptitude of the 17 people who voted to let Kyrie walk but trade for AD. 

That is the scenario that has the most likely potential to set back this organization years if AD simply walks.

Just my two cents.

[celts55]

“Trade for AD and let Kyrie walk” should be labeled as the franchise suicide option.

Keeping Kyrie is the suicide option.

He couldn't stay healthy for his first playoffs, and he laid down like a dog in his second.

And you want to pay him over $100 million?

He just happened to be in a slump at the worse possible time. Sucks, but it does happen. I believe it happened to Kobe early in his career and also happened to Lillard last year.

If he just slumped, I would be with you, but he quit. Bad shooting can happen, explain to me how 1 assist and 1 rebound happened. That's quitting as far as I'm concerned. I love watching him play, when he decides to put in the effort, but I will be hard pressed to ever root for him again.

[RJ87]

Sure. Not all of it.  But it's a simple bit of math, right?   A 'star' player playing star minutes, taking the most shots, controlling the ball the most, etc., etc., should get the most credit when he plays well and the team wins, right?   Far more credit than some bench kid who takes a fraction of the shots, right?    That 'star' player gets rewarded with praise and all-star votes and $$$$.

Well, when that star plays poorly and the team doesn't win, it seems reasonable that he might get most of the blame.    Kyrie played pretty poorly in these playoffs and the team didn't win.   All while playing huge minutes and dominating control over the game.

It's certainly fair to point over at say, Rozier, Smart and Theis and notice that they shot pretty poorly in the MIL series as well.  Worse than even Kyrie.   But can you really say any of them had anywhere near the impact on the outcome that Kyrie did?  I mean, he touched the ball more than all of them combined.  He attempted almost 3 times as many scoring attempts as all of them combined.

So, sure.  Not all the blame.

It's not just the on-court math.

Kyrie may not have wanted the responsibility, but the way this league works is that the guy on the team who gets his name in ads, movies, and billboards, the guy who scores the most points and generates the most highlights, has the most power over the narrative surrounding the team and the culture in the locker room.

Kyrie is not the only reason that the Celts were a hot mess on and off the court this year, but as the star of the franchise he had the most power over all of that, and pretty much everything he did this year contributed to the off-court stuff getting worse.  He did very little to improve or alleviate the tension and discord.  It's obvious that there were times when he was trying to make it better, but  his efforts either did not work or actively backfired.

We're acting like these aren't grown men with minds of their own. Terry is upset that he's not starting, should Kyrie hand over his starting spot to make him feel better? Should he have went to Ainge and requested Terry get traded to a team that would give him a starting opportunity?

Yes, Kyrie could've done a ton of things better. But guys should be held accountable for themselves too.

[Phantom255x]

One of the best polls I’ve seen on here, so far very surprised by the result.

I agree that it's a good, well thought out post.  But I'd day the results are about what I would have expected.  What surprises you about them?

Yeah when I created this post I hoped for good discussion which there's a lot of. But the results seem a lot more lopsided than I expected lol 

At one point I think the first option (re-sign Kyrie + trade for AD) was at 71% while the next best was just 20%. But as more votes came in it normalized a bit. 

Like yes, I expected the first option to "win out", just not by this margin.

[Phantom255x]

I have to question the aptitude of the 17 people who voted to let Kyrie walk but trade for AD. 

That is the scenario that has the most likely potential to set back this organization years if AD simply walks.

Just my two cents.

I mean, you could say the same if Irving re-signs but AD still walks after a season. That still is a possibility. Things change in the NBA fairly quickly as we've seen especially in recent memory (with this team and even around the league). 

[jambr380]

One of the best polls I’ve seen on here, so far very surprised by the result.

I agree that it's a good, well thought out post.  But I'd day the results are about what I would have expected.  What surprises you about them?

Yeah when I created this post I hoped for good discussion which there's a lot of. But the results seem a lot more lopsided than I expected lol 

At one point I think the first option (re-sign Kyrie + trade for AD) was at 71% while the next best was just 20%. But as more votes came in it normalized a bit. 

Like yes, I expected the first option to "win out", just not by this margin.

I think option 2 (re-sign Kyrie, don't trade for AD) would have received a lot more support earlier in the year and am surprised it is currently placing last. I guess people have soured a bit on Tatum's potential (they are now more willing to trade him for AD) and many more seem willing to drive Irving to the airport just to get him out of town.

Of course, I went with option 1 - which makes by FAR the most sense in terms of contention and asset accumulation, but what do I know? And before people argue this point, remember that if AD leaves - but we have re-signed Kyrie - we can then later trade him for players similar to the caliber of Tatum/Smart/picks and be back where we are right now. We really need to do everything possible to retain Kyrie.