Author Topic: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.  (Read 12953 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2012, 07:02:29 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
I actually think Green, Bass, and Lee have tremendous value for the Lakers, given that they have a need at all of these positions.

Green will start at SF, Lee is an adequate backup at SG, and they need a PF who can shoulder large minutes behind Jamison - all of these are clear team needs.

I'm just not interested in giving up that much for Gasol at this stage of his career.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2012, 07:05:21 PM »

Offline jambr380

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13002
  • Tommy Points: 1756
  • Everybody knows what's best for you
Hpantazo,

Yes, I think that Green, Bass, and Lee is a better trade this year than Bargnani and Calderon, even though I am a HUGE Calderon fan.  Calderon and Nash are redundant and Calderon is a free agent at the end of this year and LA would likely lose him and only have a joke named Bargnani.

As for Minny, Peko is pretty solid, but they already have Howard.  And Williams is terrible and a LONG term project.  He will NOT be a player until Kobe is a commentator after retiring.

Smitty77

You may be right, I just don't see Bass, Green, and Lee having too much value to the lakers, but I could be wrong. I love Calderon, and if it was my team I would much prefer to have him and a 7 footer who can spread the floor like Bargniani instead.

Wow, I almost threw up at the thought of Kobe the commentator!!! I really hope that once he retires I never see him on live TV again.
No you are correct.  Bass, Green, Lee is a horrible trade as compared to either the Minnesota or Toronto packages.  Anyone that says otherwise is just drinking green kool aid.

  I'm not really big on Bass, Green or Lee but you're crazy if you think the Raptors offer is tremendously better. I guess you load up on the purple kool aid.

I totally agree. We would be giving up three players signed to [about] market value contracts who have proven to be major rotational players on good teams. I know they aren't necessarily currently playing up to expectations,  but they aren't trash, either. They were all just signed to their current contracts this past off-season!!

Green's contract is "market value"? Really? Bass is a decent bench player on a fair contract. Lee is an average SG signed to an average deal, but why would teams trade an all-star for these guys?

Yes, Green's contract is market value. That is what we were told by Ainge and by Green's agent. I don't see why the Celtics would pay far above what he was worth, just for fun. I stand by that statement, as I don't think any of those players, if signed today, would receive substantially less.

As for Pau, you are delusional if you still believe he is a top notch, all-star player. He is very good, but is also making $20 m/y and that is way way way too much for him - especially for a team that has so little depth. Heck, KG isn't even an all-star anymore, and I would take him over Pau 100/100 times.

Re: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2012, 07:08:00 PM »

Offline Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47136
  • Tommy Points: 2401
I think Courtney Lee is a great fit in Mike D'Antoni's offense and playing off of players like Steve Nash and Dwight Howard. His minutes will be limited there though unless D'Antoni goes small and gives Kobe extended playing time at small forward.

I do not think Jeff Green is a good fit at small forward for LA. He needs too much of the ball. He isn't a particularly good shooter. Nor is he an impact defender or rebounder. Lukewarm fit. I also do not think Jeff Green is a good fit as an starting undersized quick four. He is too poor a defender and rebounder. Dwight Howard isn't going to change that.

I do not think Brandon Bass is a good fit. He is not a starting quality player due to his weaknesses as a defender and rebound. Plus, Bass never was a good fit alongside Dwight Howard. Not enough spacing or shot creation offensively to make up for the defensive and rebounding issues.

It's a fairly bad trade package. Not much value there.

Re: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2012, 07:37:17 PM »

Offline Smitty77

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3063
  • Tommy Points: 269
Bass averaged over 11 points and almost 6 rebounds in Orlando right before coming to us.  Did I mention he shot a career high from the field.  I don't think that means Bass was NEVER a good fit alongside DH.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/brandon_bass/career_stats.html

How can you say Green needs the ball too much.  Did he not co-exist quite well with Durant and Westbrook in OKC and I believe averaged 16 and 6 on two 50-win teams out there.  I do NOT think he NEEDS too much of the ball!!!!  Granted, Jeff is NOT an impact defender.  But, since when does Dantoni demand that:-)))

I think our package, if it is this, is by FAR the best.  Willams sucks and might ALWAYS suck!!  Bargnani is pure trash.  He is was shooting under 40% prior to getting hurt.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andrea_bargnani/

He is terrible.  They already have Jamison to gun.

Smitty77

Re: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2012, 07:41:41 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Why don't we try to trade Green and something for Bargnani and Pietrus?
Because we don't need another big man who is a mediocre rebounder, doesn't block shots, and likes to shoot jumpers?

  I think mediocre rebounder is something of an understatement.

Re: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2012, 07:50:28 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36776
  • Tommy Points: 2961
Like Gasol, I think he still can contribute alot to the right team.  The lakers have waited too late to dump him for a big haul.

He;ll probally wind up on the Mavs or Houston.

Money wise he is not the kind of bargain /deal I think Danny looks for. 

Danny would wait till Gasol is taken by someone else stupid enough to pay for the contract and then get him for a song in another year.

Several centers I 'm hoping DA trades for , and he an't one of them.

Re: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2012, 07:52:33 PM »

Offline Smitty77

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3063
  • Tommy Points: 269
BballTim,

You are right.  Bargnini averages 4.9 rebounds for his career and Green averages 5.4:-))  Both are horrible, but one is worse:-))))

Smitty77

Re: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2012, 07:53:15 PM »

Offline hpantazo

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24883
  • Tommy Points: 2700
Bass averaged over 11 points and almost 6 rebounds in Orlando right before coming to us.  Did I mention he shot a career high from the field.  I don't think that means Bass was NEVER a good fit alongside DH.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/brandon_bass/career_stats.html

How can you say Green needs the ball too much.  Did he not co-exist quite well with Durant and Westbrook in OKC and I believe averaged 16 and 6 on two 50-win teams out there.  I do NOT think he NEEDS too much of the ball!!!!  Granted, Jeff is NOT an impact defender.  But, since when does Dantoni demand that:-)))

I think our package, if it is this, is by FAR the best.  Willams sucks and might ALWAYS suck!!  Bargnani is pure trash.  He is was shooting under 40% prior to getting hurt.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andrea_bargnani/

He is terrible.  They already have Jamison to gun.

Smitty77

I think you would be hard pressed to find even a single NBA GM who would take Bass over Bargniani.

Re: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2012, 07:53:25 PM »

Offline Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47136
  • Tommy Points: 2401
Like Gasol, I think he still can contribute alot to the right team.  The lakers have waited to late to dump him for a big haul.

He;ll probally wind up on the Mavs or Houston.

Money wise he is not the kind of bargain /deal I think Danny does for. 

Danny would wait till Gasol is taken by someone else stupid enough to pay fo rthe contract and then get him for a song  in another year.

Several centers I 'm hoping DA trades for , and he an't one of them.

Yeah, I agree. I think Pau Gasol's trade value has fallen. Hugely.

There doesn't seem to be any way they can get a fair price for him. If they can get 70c on the dollar, I think they'd be doing well for themselves. And that could benefit their team given how little Gasol is contributing and is likely to contribute for this cast of Lakers.

Re: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2012, 10:36:56 PM »

Offline Smitty77

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3063
  • Tommy Points: 269
Hpantazo,

The trade included Lee and Green as well, right.  BTW, all three of the players we would be trading are signed long term.  Calderon would likely bolt at the end of the year.  The Lakers will have only 7 players signed for next year, already totaling over 78M.  That means NOT MUCH cap flexibility to sign someone like Calderon, whose contract expires.

Smitty77

Re: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2012, 10:55:11 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13129
  • Tommy Points: 885
The only reason I see the lakers doing this is because the think they have a lack of depth and getting three decent role players for their bench could do them well. However they could get a better return and a much more impact full player for gasol without taking on the cap space and years  they would here

Re: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2012, 12:59:27 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12749
  • Tommy Points: 1544
The Lakers just plain need to get rid of Gasol.

Gasol, while definitely in decline, could still be a very good player for the right team.  He just no longer fits in LA.  LA is in a tough spot though,  They waited too long to trade him, as others have said.

If his knee checks out as ok, I'd gladly trade Green, Bass and Lee.  I'd probably throw in Sully too.

As long as KG and Pierce on still opn the team, we are in "WIN NOW MODE". While Danny has done ok in bridging the gap, wasting KG and Pierce's last few seasons with an average team is a disgrace.  It happens to guys frequently, but I am not willing to accept it.  I doubt Danny or Wyc are either.  Pierce and KG are definitely not.

Re-enforcements are nessecary.

Re: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2012, 04:16:50 AM »

Offline Mazingerz

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1257
  • Tommy Points: 99
With that scenario im just worried about what will happen in the future if PP and KG retire. tanking is an option?

Gasol will only be serviceable up to 2 years.
Peavey Bass Player - relearning to play after 10 years sucks;

Re: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2012, 04:28:21 AM »

Offline nostar

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 754
  • Tommy Points: 74
He;ll probally wind up on the Mavs or Houston.

The problem with both of those teams is the contracts. Houston's biggest contract is $8.3M and that is Lin. If they aren't trading Lin/Harden then the minimum number of contracts they would have to send out to match Gasol's would be 5. The numbers just don't work for Houston without involving another team.

The Mavs are pretty much the same. With Nowitzski as the exception all of their contracts are small-ish. It would take 3 minimum assuming LA wants Kaman and Marion, and they don't.

It's actually a common problem with trading for big contract players. There are only 6 guys who make more than Gasol who aren't amnesties.

I'm pretty close to convinced we have the best package available for Gasol. Atlanta took Smith off the table in that rumored swap and no one else is really offering much. If anyone else is offering better I've not seen it. Toronto is close with Bargnani/Calderon but I have no idea why Toronto wants an old expensive Gasol. They're in one of the two toughest divisions. They aren't going to get competitive with Gasol. Just broke.

My approach has been to only consider contending teams which narrows the search to about 12 teams. Philly could offer about the same package we can. Something like Hawes/Richardson/Wright/Brown for Gasol/Ebanks/Sacre.

Honestly Philly's is a worse package than Green/Bass/Lee/Sully by a significant margin. I also really shudder to think of the havoc on this board when Jeff Green starts having an all-star season for the Lakers and Lee's percentages sky rocket upon arrival.

For the record I'd want Earl Clark in the deal for Green. We would need a backup SF and I personally think if given reasonable minutes he'd be a fine bench player. He was really good at Louisville. Sacre just for another big body Doc won't play :)

With that scenario im just worried about what will happen in the future if PP and KG retire. tanking is an option?

Gasol will only be serviceable up to 2 years.

Probably not tanking but close. Rondo/Doc will be able to advertise to free agents and we'll be a middling team until Danny homeruns us another veteran all-star for peanuts.

Re: Pau Gasol - We need to make a move for him.
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2012, 05:04:31 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11833
  • Tommy Points: 950
The problem with both of those teams is the contracts. Houston's biggest contract is $8.3M and that is Lin. If they aren't trading Lin/Harden then the minimum number of contracts they would have to send out to match Gasol's would be 5. The numbers just don't work for Houston without involving another team.

Houston is actually under the cap by about $8m, so Houston can theoretically make a deal that sends out only four players who aren't Asik, Lin, or Harden.
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference