Author Topic: Robert Williams (Merged Threads)  (Read 238887 times)

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Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1080 on: September 20, 2018, 03:04:09 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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I think measurables for players are important but I think people put too much emphasis on them. The NBA history is littered with players with amazing measurables but just weren't good basketball players. The Celtics had a recent player that is a prime example of this in Jordan Mickey.

Height 6'8 1/2"
Weight: 238 lbs.
Wingspan: 7' 3 1/2"
Vertical Leap: 37 1/2"
Standing Reach: 8' 10"

He had excellent lateral speed. He was an elite shot blocker. He showed in college an ability to guard the perimeter. He had a good basketball IQ. He rebounded well. Going by all this his ceiling as a PF was high. He is a bad basketball player who's game doesn't translate well to the NBA.

Now I am not saying Williams will become Mickey or wash out of the NBA. I am very hopeful that Williams will be the next Capella. He definitely has that ceiling. More realistically I can see him becoming a good NBA starter in a few years, but we will see. He very well could become another in a long line of players chosen late in the 1st round or in the 2nd round that have elite measurables but doesn't become a good basketball players and have a short NBA career.

Measurables aren't everything.

Agreed but Williams is a 2× SEC Defensive Player of the Year (2017, 2018), which is far more impressive than anything Mickey has put up, especially since Mickey had a higher BPG rate %/BPG.
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Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1081 on: September 20, 2018, 03:11:03 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I think measurables for players are important but I think people put too much emphasis on them. The NBA history is littered with players with amazing measurables but just weren't good basketball players. The Celtics had a recent player that is a prime example of this in Jordan Mickey.

Height 6'8 1/2"
Weight: 238 lbs.
Wingspan: 7' 3 1/2"
Vertical Leap: 37 1/2"
Standing Reach: 8' 10"

He had excellent lateral speed. He was an elite shot blocker. He showed in college an ability to guard the perimeter. He had a good basketball IQ. He rebounded well. Going by all this his ceiling as a PF was high. He is a bad basketball player who's game doesn't translate well to the NBA.

Now I am not saying Williams will become Mickey or wash out of the NBA. I am very hopeful that Williams will be the next Capella. He definitely has that ceiling. More realistically I can see him becoming a good NBA starter in a few years, but we will see. He very well could become another in a long line of players chosen late in the 1st round or in the 2nd round that have elite measurables but doesn't become a good basketball players and have a short NBA career.

Measurables aren't everything.

Agreed but Williams is a 2× SEC Defensive Player of the Year (2017, 2018), which is far more impressive than anything Mickey has put up, especially since Mickey had a higher BPG rate %/BPG.
Well Mickey was on the 2015 SEC All Defense 1st team and probably would have got SEC Defensive Player of the Year had Willie Cauley-Stein not been in the SEC.

And again, my point about Mickey wasn't to compare the players. It was just to point out that in many cases measurables mean very little.

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1082 on: September 20, 2018, 03:14:15 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I think measurables for players are important but I think people put too much emphasis on them. The NBA history is littered with players with amazing measurables but just weren't good basketball players. The Celtics had a recent player that is a prime example of this in Jordan Mickey.

Height 6'8 1/2"
Weight: 238 lbs.
Wingspan: 7' 3 1/2"
Vertical Leap: 37 1/2"
Standing Reach: 8' 10"

He had excellent lateral speed. He was an elite shot blocker. He showed in college an ability to guard the perimeter. He had a good basketball IQ. He rebounded well. Going by all this his ceiling as a PF was high. He is a bad basketball player who's game doesn't translate well to the NBA.

Now I am not saying Williams will become Mickey or wash out of the NBA. I am very hopeful that Williams will be the next Capella. He definitely has that ceiling. More realistically I can see him becoming a good NBA starter in a few years, but we will see. He very well could become another in a long line of players chosen late in the 1st round or in the 2nd round that have elite measurables but doesn't become a good basketball players and have a short NBA career.

Measurables aren't everything.

Agreed but Williams is a 2× SEC Defensive Player of the Year (2017, 2018), which is far more impressive than anything Mickey has put up, especially since Mickey had a higher BPG rate %/BPG.

You sure?

Williams-
2× SEC Defensive Player of the Year (2017, 2018)
Second-team All-SEC (2017)
SEC All-Freshman Team (2017)
2× SEC All-Defensive Team (2017, 2018)

Mickey-
First-team All-SEC (2015)
Second-team All SEC (2014)
2× SEC All-Defensive Team (2014, 2015)
SEC All-Freshman Team (2014)

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1083 on: September 20, 2018, 03:25:06 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I think measurables for players are important but I think people put too much emphasis on them. The NBA history is littered with players with amazing measurables but just weren't good basketball players. The Celtics had a recent player that is a prime example of this in Jordan Mickey.

Height 6'8 1/2"
Weight: 238 lbs.
Wingspan: 7' 3 1/2"
Vertical Leap: 37 1/2"
Standing Reach: 8' 10"

He had excellent lateral speed. He was an elite shot blocker. He showed in college an ability to guard the perimeter. He had a good basketball IQ. He rebounded well. Going by all this his ceiling as a PF was high. He is a bad basketball player who's game doesn't translate well to the NBA.

Now I am not saying Williams will become Mickey or wash out of the NBA. I am very hopeful that Williams will be the next Capella. He definitely has that ceiling. More realistically I can see him becoming a good NBA starter in a few years, but we will see. He very well could become another in a long line of players chosen late in the 1st round or in the 2nd round that have elite measurables but doesn't become a good basketball players and have a short NBA career.

Measurables aren't everything.

Agreed but Williams is a 2× SEC Defensive Player of the Year (2017, 2018), which is far more impressive than anything Mickey has put up, especially since Mickey had a higher BPG rate %/BPG.

You sure?

Williams-
2× SEC Defensive Player of the Year (2017, 2018)
Second-team All-SEC (2017)
SEC All-Freshman Team (2017)
2× SEC All-Defensive Team (2017, 2018)

Mickey-
First-team All-SEC (2015)
Second-team All SEC (2014)
2× SEC All-Defensive Team (2014, 2015)
SEC All-Freshman Team (2014)

This is where player comparisons start to break down. His numbers and measurables were also comparable to Anthony Davis, but that isn't a good comparison either. Success at the collegiate level doesn't guarantee success in the NBA. I hoped Mickey would contribute, but he always seemed undersized, out-of-place on offense, and outmaned on defense.

I hope Row will learn to leverage his high level athleticism to success on the basketball court. Based on what I've seen, I think he could be a really good player.

His matchup game against Ayton made me a believer. 

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1084 on: September 20, 2018, 04:38:00 PM »

Offline footey

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Eddie,

I usually agree with you on player assessment. Also I know you’re a real Celtics fan.

You seem overly negative about Williams. Thought you’d be excited about the pick and his potential.

Are you wait and see about this kid, or just think he’ll bust/disappoint?

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1085 on: September 20, 2018, 05:12:33 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Eddie,

I usually agree with you on player assessment. Also I know you’re a real Celtics fan.

You seem overly negative about Williams. Thought you’d be excited about the pick and his potential.

Are you wait and see about this kid, or just think he’ll bust/disappoint?


I actually like the pick. It was terrific value for where he was supposed to he selected. However, I
do have concerns about his knee (Ainge discussing his medical to Roziers and these couple of months of issues are flags), especially on a guy that's so athletically reliant. I also question his maturity and work ethic, things that have been labeled as weaknesses throughout the scouting process.

I don't think he'll be a contributor this year. He's just too raw and he doesn't strike me as a guy that is going to be picking up all the nuisances of the game like a Tatum did. Again, I think the earliest he'll be ready to contribute will be during the 19-20 season. Maybe even as a Theis (free agent that summer) replacement. To me that's a realistic scenario.

I do feel he's grossly overrated by many. Look no further than this very thread were he's being absurdly compared to a legend like Bill Russell. It's pretty ridiculous and insulting to the greatness of a legend.

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1086 on: September 20, 2018, 05:12:36 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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Jordon Mickey according to an article in draft express titled top prospect in SEC  claimed he measured twice at 6-7.5 in shoes and had a 7-2 wingspan.
Then there were articles at 6-8 and a 7-3 wingspan but a very average in their words 8-10 standing reach.
And Eddie no more altering my posts and reprinting it.That is not a liberty more like a transgression with your agenda.
Moderator that is not a liberty i grant-

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1087 on: September 20, 2018, 05:20:04 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Jordon Mickey according to an article in draft express titled top prospect in SEC  claimed he measured twice at 6-7.5 in shoes and had a 7-2 wingspan.
Then there were articles at 6-8 and a 7-3 wingspan but a very average in their words 8-10 standing reach.
And Eddie no more altering my posts and reprinting it.That is not a liberty more like a transgression with your agenda.
Moderator that is not a liberty i grant-

What are you talking about now? The free throw thing? If so, yes, you purposely omitted Williams grotesque free throw percentage during your statistical breakdown. I added it in order to give a better representation on the player.

Is that your issue? Was the free throw percentage I provided accurate?


Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1088 on: September 20, 2018, 05:23:18 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Jordon Mickey according to an article in draft express titled top prospect in SEC  claimed he measured twice at 6-7.5 in shoes and had a 7-2 wingspan.
Then there were articles at 6-8 and a 7-3 wingspan but a very average in their words 8-10 standing reach.
And Eddie no more altering my posts and reprinting it.That is not a liberty more like a transgression with your agenda.
Moderator that is not a liberty i grant-
1. Doesn't matter if you don't grant anyone the ability to quote you, people are allowed to quote and repost as long as they don't change the quote.

2. I am pretty sure the measurements you have on Mickey were from before college. The measurements I provided were straight from nba.com

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1089 on: September 20, 2018, 06:13:47 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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The quote was changed he "took the liberty to add to it" then quoted it with his add on.

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1090 on: September 20, 2018, 06:50:15 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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2017-18 per 40 min
Steals 1.2
Blocks 4.1
points 17.3
rebounds 14.4
assts 2.2
fg% .632
ft% 47.1

Jordan Mickey's sophomore season stats per 40
Steals 1.1
Blocks 4.1
Points 17.7
Rebounds 11.4
Assists 1.5
FG% 50.4
FT% 64.6


You forgot to include Williams' FT % so I took the liberty of adding it for you.

As you can see he added free throw % to my original that didn't have it .Then quoted later under a heading as mine .That is not right-I remember him coming onto my messages and telling me how to post and that a group was upset over hyperbole I told him not to come on that sight and and he couldn't let it go...if he can alter my post and requote it as mine WHATS NEXT taking down retired numbers.
He tried his subterfuge  to discredit P3 and holding up combine as the grail-2015 and 2016 had multiple inconsistencies with verticals.

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1091 on: September 20, 2018, 06:59:01 PM »

Offline playdream

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Eddie,

I usually agree with you on player assessment. Also I know you’re a real Celtics fan.

You seem overly negative about Williams. Thought you’d be excited about the pick and his potential.

Are you wait and see about this kid, or just think he’ll bust/disappoint?


I actually like the pick. It was terrific value for where he was supposed to he selected. However, I
do have concerns about his knee (Ainge discussing his medical to Roziers and these couple of months of issues are flags), especially on a guy that's so athletically reliant. I also question his maturity and work ethic, things that have been labeled as weaknesses throughout the scouting process.

I don't think he'll be a contributor this year. He's just too raw and he doesn't strike me as a guy that is going to be picking up all the nuisances of the game like a Tatum did. Again, I think the earliest he'll be ready to contribute will be during the 19-20 season. Maybe even as a Theis (free agent that summer) replacement. To me that's a realistic scenario.

I do feel he's grossly overrated by many. Look no further than this very thread were he's being absurdly compared to a legend like Bill Russell. It's pretty ridiculous and insulting to the greatness of a legend.
Compare him to Russell isn't an insult on Russell but a praise of how high a potential this kid has

you're sleeping on him big time and your words will be eaten


Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1092 on: September 20, 2018, 06:59:06 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Williams does not have to gather himself to jump every time like Jordan Mickey.   He also has superior reach and vertical.   He can leap quick, too.

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1093 on: September 20, 2018, 07:00:42 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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2017-18 per 40 min
Steals 1.2
Blocks 4.1
points 17.3
rebounds 14.4
assts 2.2
fg% .632
ft% 47.1

Jordan Mickey's sophomore season stats per 40
Steals 1.1
Blocks 4.1
Points 17.7
Rebounds 11.4
Assists 1.5
FG% 50.4
FT% 64.6


You forgot to include Williams' FT % so I took the liberty of adding it for you.

As you can see he added free throw % to my original that didn't have it .Then quoted later under a heading as mine .That is not right-I remember him coming onto my messages and telling me how to post and that a group was upset over hyperbole I told him not to come on that sight and and he couldn't let it go...if he can alter my post and requote it as mine WHATS NEXT taking down retired numbers.
He tried his subterfuge  to discredit P3 and holding up combine as the grail-2015 and 2016 had multiple inconsistencies with verticals.
Rollie, he quoted you correctly. I went back ten pages and he quoted you correctly every time he responded. He said he added to it to show the comparison of ft%. There is nothing wrong with that.

Now I have asked nicely for you two to stay away from each other. You continue to take swipes at Eddie and Eddie continues to respond to your posts. STAY AWAY FROM EACH OTHER!!! If I see either of you not adhering to this there will be suspensions. Long suspensions.

Re: Robert Williams(Merged Threads)
« Reply #1094 on: September 20, 2018, 07:20:55 PM »

Offline rollie mass

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Thank you-