Poll

If you had to choose someone, who would you pick?

Jayson Freakin' Tatum!
42 (85.7%)
Ben 'Shoot like Julius Randle,' Simmons!
7 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 49

Author Topic: Who is better... Tatum or Simmons?  (Read 10301 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Who is better... Tatum or Simmons?
« Reply #60 on: September 23, 2018, 07:51:50 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
Tatum's ceiling for his game is Kobe. He may never be the ultra aggressive Mamba assassin, but his execution when it counts is already reliable. I would even say I'm taking Tatum over healthy Kyrie for a last second shot to win a game.

Simmons obviously has more to grow, but it is only in his jump shot, IMO. He has a very unhealthy arrogance.....the self-centered kind, not the team leader kind. If he gets a jump shot going, he can be like 80-85% of what Lebron has done in the league with that skill set. I just see him getting more in his own way than Tatum, who seems immensely more coachable and a better teammate.

I'm taking Tatum now, and I think 3-5 years from now, the answer won't change.

I'd say his ceiling is Durant and, for my money, Durant > Kobe.
Kobe with a deadly 3 point game! And longer ... so basically Durant
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Who is better... Tatum or Simmons?
« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2018, 09:15:43 PM »

Offline Billybeantown

  • Jaden Springer
  • Posts: 5
  • Tommy Points: 0
I like consistency in terms of what a player delivers and the confidence of that player. Ben Simmons is that Player. He knows who he is in that offense, Jayson's confidence is fragile and with deduction in playing time with Hayward coming back, the 'Green Light' a player needs will not be there. Outside of that Ben Simmons is not getting pulled. Simmons is stronger and has more stamina.

Re: Who is better... Tatum or Simmons?
« Reply #62 on: October 12, 2018, 09:32:51 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17837
  • Tommy Points: 2661
  • bammokja
I like consistency in terms of what a player delivers and the confidence of that player. Ben Simmons is that Player. He knows who he is in that offense, Jayson's confidence is fragile and with deduction in playing time with Hayward coming back, the 'Green Light' a player needs will not be there. Outside of that Ben Simmons is not getting pulled. Simmons is stronger and has more stamina.
i simply have to ask at this point...would you please provide any evidence at all that the bolded above has any basis in fact or reality? armchair psychology is not sufficient to make a post informative or insightful.

i saw tatum take and make numerous shots in close games last season. that does not seem to indicate a confidence that is fragile.

may i suggest you think your posts through a bit more and find supporting evidence/data to support what you write. i think your posts would be a lot stronger if you did these things.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 09:40:57 PM by hwangjini_1 »
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: Who is better... Tatum or Simmons?
« Reply #63 on: October 12, 2018, 09:33:47 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
I like consistency in terms of what a player delivers and the confidence of that player. Ben Simmons is that Player. He knows who he is in that offense, Jayson's confidence is fragile and with deduction in playing time with Hayward coming back, the 'Green Light' a player needs will not be there. Outside of that Ben Simmons is not getting pulled. Simmons is stronger and has more stamina.
It's weird that you cite consistency as a factor influencing who you prefer, as Tatum put in a more consistent playoff run (i.e., when the pressure is significantly higher).

Not sure how you think JT's confidence is fragile. At all.

And the difference in strength and stamina can pretty easily be attributed to the 21 month age gap between the two.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Who is better... Tatum or Simmons?
« Reply #64 on: October 12, 2018, 09:51:07 PM »

Offline Greyman

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 784
  • Tommy Points: 211
As much as I love Tatum I had to vote with my head, not my heart. Simmons only just at this point. It could change it is so even depending on their development over the next two years.

Re: blog o grach recenzje gier blog
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2018, 07:26:07 AM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975
Z które natrafi), jakiej o tak dalece prawidowo cz, nie byo w dziwaku. TUDZIE jednak impuls na wspomaganie niepodlegych demiurgów w ich niepowszednich strona z recenzjami gier koncepcjach to nie owo tego co IP mienione w charakterze AAA, owo zawsze lepsze to ni figa. Hodowanie prywatnej buki naprowadza nieco frajd w Tamagotchi za podobnie nie istnieje za bardzo zawie. Teje wypranie nie istnieje bast naszych awantur z achami, skoro naley jeszcze rozwiesi sotnego ubiór na suszarce lub kolejny raz uatwi sobie obecno tudzie posuy si sporód suszarki bezwiednej. Udane pranie (pachnce, milutkie, cieplutkie...) owo gwarancja dobrego samopoczucia tu przy hardware cda Podczas gdy na powóczysty kula ziemska dopucioby, sklepy, szkolenie czy domki mieszcz si w brystolach, natomiast w wyposaeniu nie moe zawie koszyczków a do spania, kaloryferów, zasobników z karm bd kuwet ze wirkiem. Nareszcie wic stopie bdzie kolosalna. O w jakim stopniu jest sporód kim, materia przekonujca. Sporadycznie mam warto zajrzec szans odtwarza takie detal w recenzjach, tymczasem Fe owszem nie zdobyoby poszerzonej wojny marketingowej i bez ryzyka niektórzy nasi czytelnicy nawet pod adnym pozorem nie syszeli o tym tytule.

TP

Re: blog o grach recenzje gier blog
« Reply #66 on: October 13, 2018, 08:26:55 AM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
Z które natrafi), jakiej o tak dalece prawidowo cz, nie byo w dziwaku. TUDZIE jednak impuls na wspomaganie niepodlegych demiurgów w ich niepowszednich strona z recenzjami gier koncepcjach to nie owo tego co IP mienione w charakterze AAA, owo zawsze lepsze to ni figa. Hodowanie prywatnej buki naprowadza nieco frajd w Tamagotchi za podobnie nie istnieje za bardzo zawie. Teje wypranie nie istnieje bast naszych awantur z achami, skoro naley jeszcze rozwiesi sotnego ubiór na suszarce lub kolejny raz uatwi sobie obecno tudzie posuy si sporód suszarki bezwiednej. Udane pranie (pachnce, milutkie, cieplutkie...) owo gwarancja dobrego samopoczucia tu przy hardware cda Podczas gdy na powóczysty kula ziemska dopucioby, sklepy, szkolenie czy domki mieszcz si w brystolach, natomiast w wyposaeniu nie moe zawie koszyczków a do spania, kaloryferów, zasobników z karm bd kuwet ze wirkiem. Nareszcie wic stopie bdzie kolosalna. O w jakim stopniu jest sporód kim, materia przekonujca. Sporadycznie mam warto zajrzec szans odtwarza takie detal w recenzjach, tymczasem Fe owszem nie zdobyoby poszerzonej wojny marketingowej i bez ryzyka niektórzy nasi czytelnicy nawet pod adnym pozorem nie syszeli o tym tytule.

TP
Hahaha, this had me laughing
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Who is better... Tatum or Simmons?
« Reply #67 on: October 13, 2018, 08:45:47 AM »

Offline Smartacus

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2112
  • Tommy Points: 318
2017 Pre Season Tatum
2017 Regular Season Tatum
2018 Regular Season Simmons
2018 Post Season Tatum
2018 Pre Season Simmons
2018 Regular Season ????
2019 Regular Season ????
2019 Post season ????
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 08:54:35 AM by Smartacus »

Re: Who is better... Tatum or Simmons?
« Reply #68 on: October 13, 2018, 08:45:58 AM »

Offline makaveli

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3138
  • Tommy Points: 320
  • The Truth
It will be interesting to see how it shakes out but in last years playoffs it was Tatum and it wasn't close.

Playoff numbers for both

16.3 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 7.7 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.8 bpg, 4.4 tpg, 3.4 fpg, 54.1 TS%, 36.9 mpg
18.5 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.2 spg, 0.5 bpg, 2.2 tpg, 2.6 fpg, 57.8 TS%, 35.9 mpg

Not sure what stats you were looking at, but those numbers seem fairly close as the better shooter takes care of the ball better, but is basically worse every where else.

Another great example od how the stats don’t tell the whole story. I remember Simmons being benched and T.J  taking over his role and finishing games due to Ben’s lack of shooting and playmaking in midst of defense sagging off of him.

Tatum is younger and a better scorer but Simmons is a poor mans LBJ(which is still an all star). No one can really tell who will have a better career, but it’s 1-0 Team Tatum right now.
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Re: Who is better... Tatum or Simmons?
« Reply #69 on: October 13, 2018, 12:47:53 PM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7489
  • Tommy Points: 741
I like consistency in terms of what a player delivers and the confidence of that player. Ben Simmons is that Player. He knows who he is in that offense, Jayson's confidence is fragile and with deduction in playing time with Hayward coming back, the 'Green Light' a player needs will not be there. Outside of that Ben Simmons is not getting pulled. Simmons is stronger and has more stamina.
i simply have to ask at this point...would you please provide any evidence at all that the bolded above has any basis in fact or reality? armchair psychology is not sufficient to make a post informative or insightful.

i saw tatum take and make numerous shots in close games last season. that does not seem to indicate a confidence that is fragile.

may i suggest you think your posts through a bit more and find supporting evidence/data to support what you write. i think your posts would be a lot stronger if you did these things.

Yeah, this is a strange criticism to me. Tatum hit the rookie wall mid season last year but rebounded and finished the season strong. He had bad games in the playoffs and always turned it around to play great the next night. If there's anything about Tatum I feel like I can bank on, it's his confidence.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: Who is better... Tatum or Simmons?
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2018, 09:35:18 AM »

Offline cman88

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5153
  • Tommy Points: 359
While techincally a rookie, if people want to talk strength. Tatum was in college while Simmons was undergoing an NBA training regimen.

Over the long run, I think tatum will be better. he went toe to toe with Lebron in the ECF nearly dragging us to the finals. Not sure how some can say he has fragile confidence. Kid was a 19 year old rookie. Celtics shut down simmons in the playoffs. all they realized was to keep him off the fast break and lay off him forcing him to shoot. and he did nothing.

I still an skeptical if a team built around essentially a bigger Rondo and a back to the basket big can be a contender in todays NBA, but we will see. Maybe simmons will develop a shot.

But I feel like there is alot more questions about how Simmons needs to improve his game than tatum.

Re: Who is better... Tatum or Simmons?
« Reply #71 on: October 14, 2018, 10:58:48 AM »

Online Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
While techincally a rookie, if people want to talk strength. Tatum was in college while Simmons was undergoing an NBA training regimen.

Over the long run, I think tatum will be better. he went toe to toe with Lebron in the ECF nearly dragging us to the finals. Not sure how some can say he has fragile confidence. Kid was a 19 year old rookie. Celtics shut down simmons in the playoffs. all they realized was to keep him off the fast break and lay off him forcing him to shoot. and he did nothing.

I still an skeptical if a team built around essentially a bigger Rondo and a back to the basket big can be a contender in todays NBA, but we will see. Maybe simmons will develop a shot.

But I feel like there is alot more questions about how Simmons needs to improve his game than tatum.
did nothing except average 14.5/8/6.5 and really game 2 was historically awful, but the rest of the series he was about what he was during the regular season. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Who is better... Tatum or Simmons?
« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2018, 06:28:33 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1243
  • Tommy Points: 164
It's been an tumultuous season... Somewhere, along the horizon, 76ers fans crowd alongside each other like a pack of murderous crows. Seeking solace, they warm themselves with whispers of, "rookie of the year, ROOKIE OF THE YEAR, ROOKIEE OF THE YEAR!!" As if to prove the point that Simmons is better than Tatum...

So who do you choose?

Personally? I like Tatum's personality, and his silent but killer assassin-like ego. I loved his 1 on 1 battle against Embiid in the Hanlen's workout video, where he proclaimed, "4-1 is all I know." And the stare down on LeBron after he famously dunked and chest bumped him.

But I also love how dangerous Simmons can be in the offense. If he could ever improve his shooting form, (which seems like Julius Randle's sadly...) then he would be the perfect fit for Steven's system. His unbelievable mobility and height along with his precise court vision seems like the modern day Draymond Green.

I would choose Tatum still, but I would trade anyone not named Kyrie or Tatum for Simmons.

I voted Tatum. IMHO, there’s only so far these “who’s better” debates get you, though. And they’re both very good at basketball.

After I voted I checked ESPN’s Real Plus/Minus. No one stat gives you a judgment on a player, but I pay attention to that one because it’s looking at the whole contribution that a player makes, including all the stuff that we don’t know how to quantify- not just assists or shooting or whatever.

Here’s what I found:

Tatum was 33rd in the league, with a composite of +2.92 points per possession.
Simmons was 35th in the league, with a composite of  +2.89 points per possession.

The difference, in other words, was statistical noise.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Who is better... Tatum or Simmons?
« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2018, 06:51:08 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20000
  • Tommy Points: 1323
Quote
Quote
While techincally a rookie, if people want to talk strength. Tatum was in college while Simmons was undergoing an NBA training regimen.

This is the reason why guys who get hurt should not have a chance to earn rookie of the year the following year.   Too bad, life happens...

Re: Who is better... Tatum or Simmons?
« Reply #74 on: October 14, 2018, 07:58:53 PM »

Online kraidstar

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5368
  • Tommy Points: 2478
Quote
Quote
While techincally a rookie, if people want to talk strength. Tatum was in college while Simmons was undergoing an NBA training regimen.

This is the reason why guys who get hurt should not have a chance to earn rookie of the year the following year.   Too bad, life happens...

This

He agreed to an NBA deal and has been in the NBA system. It's not fair to the real rookies.