A concerning player pattern or a coincidence?

[JohnBoy65]

I am not sure this is all entirely related, but I do think it is important to point out the pattern. The celtics have never been deemed a 'free agent' destination. However over the last 5 years we've gotten 2 of the biggest names in free agency, and a 'star' via trade.

We all hear about the stability and culture of the Celtics organization, BUT is there reason to be concerned that if Gordon leaves we've lost all 3 of major acquisitions in the last 5 years?

I think you can reason as to why all 3 left, and we can persuade ourselves that it wasn't the organizations fault,  but I think it's worth discussion. I am curious as to what you all think.

[RPGenerate]

Anyone who just looks at the context can realize none of this has to do with the Celtics organization. Kyrie left because he's a cancer that never wanted to be here. Horford left because the Sixers gave him a huge payday. If Hayward leaves, it's because he also got a huge contract.

[Donoghus]

Anyone who just looks at the context can realize none of this has to do with the Celtics organization. Kyrie left because he's a cancer that never wanted to be here. Horford left because the Sixers gave him a huge payday. If Hayward leaves, it's because he also got a huge contract.

Yeah, I chalk it up more to an unlucky coincidence.  Each left (or could potentially) leave for their own reasons under their own specific circumstances. 

I certainly don't think there's some underlying organizational issues at play here besides a bit of bad luck.

[JohnBoy65]

Anyone who just looks at the context can realize none of this has to do with the Celtics organization. Kyrie left because he's a cancer that never wanted to be here. Horford left because the Sixers gave him a huge payday. If Hayward leaves, it's because he also got a huge contract.

Yeah, I chalk it up more to an unlucky coincidence.  Each left (or could potentially) leave for their own reasons under their own specific circumstances. 

I certainly don't think there's some underlying organizational issues at play here besides a bit of bad luck.

I tend to agree with both of you - I don't think there's a huge issue of players not wanting to be here, what if Tatum doesn't sign an extension this offseason Does that change people's minds?

[RPGenerate]

Anyone who just looks at the context can realize none of this has to do with the Celtics organization. Kyrie left because he's a cancer that never wanted to be here. Horford left because the Sixers gave him a huge payday. If Hayward leaves, it's because he also got a huge contract.

Yeah, I chalk it up more to an unlucky coincidence.  Each left (or could potentially) leave for their own reasons under their own specific circumstances. 

I certainly don't think there's some underlying organizational issues at play here besides a bit of bad luck.

I tend to agree with both of you - I don't think there's a huge issue of players not wanting to be here, what if Tatum doesn't sign an extension this offseason Does that change people's minds?

I prefer to not go down the rabbit hole of "what ifs?" As of now, there's little reason to think that there something wrong with our organization.

[Csfan1984]

One of my biggest gripes on DA is the lack of moving guys in their last year. Other than IT he rarely does it and they leave for almost nothing. Yet I also think maybe letting guys play out their contracts is also helping with the FA draw.

So if Hayward is allowed to finish his last year and walk I don't have a huge issue with it since Hayward is still a good player.

As for guys choosing other places like Al, or Ray not everyone is going to be happy with the pay, or a role, or maybe even the weather. The NBA offers so much change and opportunity from team to team no team can be perfect. Look at Lakers getting turned down by Kawhi. Just never know what players want.

[td450]

Its not concerning, its a good thing.

The three players you cite are not right for the team as max slot players. They just aren't good enough or aren't sane enough to take up that much cap space. Walker presents the same issue.

Now Tatum and Brown are a whole other matter.

[johnnygreen]

I brought up this exact issue yesterday, and was shot down. Why are they leaving (assuming Hayward too) the first chance they get? It’s too much of a trend to not have a serious internal discussion. All three guys leaving, could just be a coincidence. However, the team isn’t doing their due diligence if they don’t take a closer look into it. Players talk to each other, and you can bet free agents (that the Celtics contact) will be calling Kyrie, Al, and Gordon to find out why they left the first chance they got.

Didn’t Kyrie approve the deal to Boston? So I’m not sure we can assume he never wanted to be here. Boston could have gave Kyrie a bigger deal, and could have come up with a sign and trade to bring in KD. From what I recall, I thought there were reports that Boston was close to acquiring KD, before Golden State closed the deal. So KD may have been agreeable to come to Boston this past offseason, but Kyrie swayed him away for some reason.

My memory may be fuzzy on this, but didn’t Al pretty much ghost the Celtics at seasons end, and never gave them a chance to even make an offer? No one thinks that’s strange? Why not give the Celtics a chance to match or hear they’re plans for the offseason?

I guess my main concern, did those guys leave without giving Boston a chance to discuss an extension? If yes, why?

[RPGenerate]

I brought up this exact issue yesterday, and was shot down. Why are they leaving (assuming Hayward too) the first chance they get? It’s too much of a trend to not have a serious internal discussion. All three guys leaving, could just be a coincidence. However, the team isn’t doing their due diligence if they don’t take a closer look into it. Players talk to each other, and you can bet free agents (that the Celtics contact) will be calling Kyrie, Al, and Gordon to find out why they left the first chance they got.

Didn’t Kyrie approve the deal to Boston? So I’m not sure we can assume he never wanted to be here. Boston could have gave Kyrie a bigger deal, and could have come up with a sign and trade to bring in KD. From what I recall, I thought there were reports that Boston was close to acquiring KD, before Golden State closed the deal. So KD may have been agreeable to come to Boston this past offseason, but Kyrie swayed him away for some reason.

My memory may be fuzzy on this, but didn’t Al pretty much ghost the Celtics at seasons end, and never gave them a chance to even make an offer? No one thinks that’s strange? Why not give the Celtics a chance to match or hear they’re plans for the offseason?

I guess my main concern, did those guys leave without giving Boston a chance to discuss an extension? If yes, why?

You got shot down because all you are doing is baseless speculation. None of this is based in reality. Horford left because he got huge contract from the Sixers that the Celtics had no chance of matching. Kyrie the cancer left because he wanted to team up with KD is New York.

[Moranis]

I brought up this exact issue yesterday, and was shot down. Why are they leaving (assuming Hayward too) the first chance they get? It’s too much of a trend to not have a serious internal discussion. All three guys leaving, could just be a coincidence. However, the team isn’t doing their due diligence if they don’t take a closer look into it. Players talk to each other, and you can bet free agents (that the Celtics contact) will be calling Kyrie, Al, and Gordon to find out why they left the first chance they got.

Didn’t Kyrie approve the deal to Boston? So I’m not sure we can assume he never wanted to be here. Boston could have gave Kyrie a bigger deal, and could have come up with a sign and trade to bring in KD. From what I recall, I thought there were reports that Boston was close to acquiring KD, before Golden State closed the deal. So KD may have been agreeable to come to Boston this past offseason, but Kyrie swayed him away for some reason.

My memory may be fuzzy on this, but didn’t Al pretty much ghost the Celtics at seasons end, and never gave them a chance to even make an offer? No one thinks that’s strange? Why not give the Celtics a chance to match or hear they’re plans for the offseason?

I guess my main concern, did those guys leave without giving Boston a chance to discuss an extension? If yes, why?

Boston couldn't keep Kyrie and sign and trade for Durant under the salary cap rules. It was impossible.

[Ogaju]

Anyone who just looks at the context can realize none of this has to do with the Celtics organization. Kyrie left because he's a cancer that never wanted to be here. Horford left because the Sixers gave him a huge payday. If Hayward leaves, it's because he also got a huge contract.

Yeah, I chalk it up more to an unlucky coincidence.  Each left (or could potentially) leave for their own reasons under their own specific circumstances. 

I certainly don't think there's some underlying organizational issues at play here besides a bit of bad luck.

I tend to agree with both of you - I don't think there's a huge issue of players not wanting to be here, what if Tatum doesn't sign an extension this offseason Does that change people's minds?

I prefer to not go down the rabbit hole of "what ifs?" As of now, there's little reason to think that there something wrong with our organization.

Nothing wrong with the organization or the city for that matter, but there are more attractive cities for more NBA players.

[JohnBoy65]

Again - I think it is worth the conversation. Could it be that 3 separate scenarios turned out the same way because of X,Y, and Z? Sure. However, to lose 2 players of that caliber (and potentially a 3rd) warrants a discussion if there is a possibility that the organization may not be as rosy as we think.

I'd love to see data on major FA acquisitions leaving after their first contract. It just doesn't seem to happen very often.

[Moranis]

Again - I think it is worth the conversation. Could it be that 3 separate scenarios turned out the same way because of X,Y, and Z? Sure. However, to lose 2 players of that caliber (and potentially a 3rd) warrants a discussion if there is a possibility that the organization may not be as rosy as we think.

I'd love to see data on major FA acquisitions leaving after their first contract. It just doesn't seem to happen very often.

Off the top of my head Durant just left and obviously Lebron did it twice (Miami and Cleveland the 2nd time).  More times than not, major free agents usually just re-sign with their current team, but many of those that leave end up getting traded so it is hard to gauge if it is common or not.  I mean a recent example of a guy basically signing as a free agent and then getting traded is Chris Paul.

[RPGenerate]

Anyone who just looks at the context can realize none of this has to do with the Celtics organization. Kyrie left because he's a cancer that never wanted to be here. Horford left because the Sixers gave him a huge payday. If Hayward leaves, it's because he also got a huge contract.

Yeah, I chalk it up more to an unlucky coincidence.  Each left (or could potentially) leave for their own reasons under their own specific circumstances. 

I certainly don't think there's some underlying organizational issues at play here besides a bit of bad luck.

I tend to agree with both of you - I don't think there's a huge issue of players not wanting to be here, what if Tatum doesn't sign an extension this offseason Does that change people's minds?

I prefer to not go down the rabbit hole of "what ifs?" As of now, there's little reason to think that there something wrong with our organization.

Nothing wrong with the organization or the city for that matter, but there are more attractive cities for more NBA players.

Well of course that's the case. But unless the Celtics want to move to a place like Miami or Los Angeles, there's nothing to be done about it.

[CFAN38]

Anyone who just looks at the context can realize none of this has to do with the Celtics organization. Kyrie left because he's a cancer that never wanted to be here. Horford left because the Sixers gave him a huge payday. If Hayward leaves, it's because he also got a huge contract.

Yeah, I chalk it up more to an unlucky coincidence.  Each left (or could potentially) leave for their own reasons under their own specific circumstances. 

I certainly don't think there's some underlying organizational issues at play here besides a bit of bad luck.

I agree

Kyrie was a relativity low cost gamble for a potential top 10 player who proved to be a an injury and personality issue.

Horford left because he thought he was being offered more money to play for a team closer to winging a Chamionship. I think Al probably regrets his choice at this point (thought the $$$ probably helps)

Hayward, I suspect he only leaves for another big payday on a team where he is clearly option 1 or 2. The fact that he missed the birth of his child to play injured shows me he does not have malcontent for this team.