CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: celtics4ever33 on November 17, 2018, 08:21:31 AM
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If we don't win a ring...which is almost about 95% likely
How many believe they will all still be together?
Next year will probably be the perfect year or Brown and Tatum's talent to be realized completely. Both still with rookie tendencies, while Brown is basically rounding into his form, Tatum still going to go through some rookie pains.
Gordon should be 100% in terms of being his regular playing self.
The most important thing is Kyrie and seeing what happens with him.
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They all be here unless we trade for Davis and either Tatum or Brown be gone
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Yeah, unless we make some blockbuster deal I think they’re all here.
Brown is probably the most likely to be moved of the bunch though
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If we don't win a ring...which is almost about 95% likely
I think we have a better chance than that. Really only 5%?
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I'm confident they will all be here next season. The wing that is likely gone is Morris, which would be too bad, he's killing it this season for us.
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I've seen so much to talk about benching Hayward but to me Brown is the odd man out.
Hayward Horford Kyrie is a devastating 3 man lineup and one that allows Tatum to eventually slide in as the second option.
Ideally Brown would be the 5th player in that but I just don't see it. I don't think he has the BBIQ to function in our Championship level starting 5. IMO he's running into the same problem that Rozier runs into. They can function as high usage starters, but their games do not scale down to the role that we need them to play.
I don't know who that fifth player's going to be. I've been kicking around the idea of moving Jaylen for either Aaron Gordon or Jonathan Isaac. Man what I wouldn't give to be able to talk long-term team building strategy with DA.
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I've seen so much to talk about benching Hayward but to me Brown is the odd man out.
Hayward Horford Kyrie is a devastating 3 man lineup and one that allows Tatum to eventually slide in as the second option.
Ideally Brown would be the 5th player in that but I just don't see it. I don't think he has the BBIQ to function in our Championship level starting 5. IMO he's running into the same problem that Rozier runs into. They can function as high usage starters, but their games do not scale down to the role that we need them to play.
I don't know who that fifth player's going to be. I've been kicking around the idea of moving Jaylen for either Aaron Gordon or Jonathan Isaac. Man what I wouldn't give to be able to talk long-term team building strategy with DA.
These are all valid concerns for sure. I'm still very optimistic that Jaylen will find his niche with this group. Realistically his stat line mirrors last season in terms of FG attempts, both from inside the paint and beyond the arc. The efficiency will come with patience.
Jaylen's ideal role is an elite defensive stopper and opportunistic scorer (via open shots and quick drives to the hoop).
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I've seen so much to talk about benching Hayward but to me Brown is the odd man out.
Hayward Horford Kyrie is a devastating 3 man lineup and one that allows Tatum to eventually slide in as the second option.
Ideally Brown would be the 5th player in that but I just don't see it. I don't think he has the BBIQ to function in our Championship level starting 5. IMO he's running into the same problem that Rozier runs into. They can function as high usage starters, but their games do not scale down to the role that we need them to play.
I don't know who that fifth player's going to be. I've been kicking around the idea of moving Jaylen for either Aaron Gordon or Jonathan Isaac. Man what I wouldn't give to be able to talk long-term team building strategy with DA.
Right now on the C’s. I wouldn’t mind seeing Morris in there starting instead of Brown. He adds a toughness to the first unit that they don’t have right now. I just dont know if Hayward can guard the other teams scoring wings. If he could I think our line up is tougher with better rebounding. Morris has really impressed me this year.
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I’ve said it (many many many times) before and I’ll say it again. If we could replace brown with a pure shooter or a guy that was not so erratic, this team would be much better. Browns drives are just to often way out of control and his shot is not all that realiable. I think soon as people realize he’s not a future star they would accept moving him.
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I think Brown has superstar potential and that's the problem. This team, as constituted now and at this point in time, does not need a starter to have superstar potential. We need a spot up 3 point, reliable shooter, i.e. Korver. Brown just doesn't seem to "fit" on this team. He needs to be on a team where he's option 2 maybe and that's not here. I hope I'm wrong.
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Brown shot 39.5% from 3, and 46.5% overall last year. Before we label him a bad shooter give it time. He is due for some hot nights from the field soon.
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Brown shot 39.5% from 3, and 46.5% overall last year. Before we label him a bad shooter give it time. He is due for some hot nights from the field soon.
The question is whether he can play the role he needs to play when he’s at best the fourth best offensive player on this team. And I know I’m in the minority but I don’t see a star. If the over under on all star games was set at 1, I’d pick the under.
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Brown shot 39.5% from 3, and 46.5% overall last year. Before we label him a bad shooter give it time. He is due for some hot nights from the field soon.
The question is whether he can play the role he needs to play when he’s at best the fourth best offensive player on this team. And I know I’m in the minority but I don’t see a star. If the over under on all star games was set at 1, I’d pick the under.
What if it was set at .5 ?
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Brown shot 39.5% from 3, and 46.5% overall last year. Before we label him a bad shooter give it time. He is due for some hot nights from the field soon.
The question is whether he can play the role he needs to play when he’s at best the fourth best offensive player on this team. And I know I’m in the minority but I don’t see a star. If the over under on all star games was set at 1, I’d pick the under.
What if it was set at .5 ?
Perhaps, maybe, he could luck into a single all star game. Maybe.
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If we don't win a ring...which is almost about 95% likely
I think we have a better chance than that. Really only 5%?
This team hasn't even scratched its potential yet so I'd agree. We saw a glimpse last night. I'd hold off all speculation about the future till we see exactly what we have with the current roster.
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If I recall correctly - Al (and maybe Gordo's) contract expires as Brown and some of the young ones are set to re-up.
To tinker with a completely new team because they have had a slow start (but are still 9-6 after a pretty tough road trip) is how you end up being the Washington Wizards.
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If I recall correctly - Al (and maybe Gordo's) contract expires as Brown and some of the young ones are set to re-up.
To tinker with a completely new team because they have had a slow start (but are still 9-6 after a pretty tough road trip) is how you end up being the Washington Wizards.
Thats fine, but it’s not like brown is a max player or anything. Somlosing Hayward or horford for brown (for example) is a huge downgrade.
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We're 15 games into a season where our team has an entirely new dynamic.....and yet people want to make snap decisions concerning extremely talented players.
We don't want to become the OKC Thunder.
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We're 15 games into a season where our team has an entirely new dynamic.....and yet people want to make snap decisions concerning extremely talented players.
We don't want to become the OKC Thunder.
It is the opposite.
The most difficult thing for a fan to accept is a team with two many potential good players.
One ball syndrome,
I know our fans love these guys, especially as they were drafted here, but Tatum's quick rise along with Hayward's signing has made it clear that while all these guys can co-exist and win (we know they can win together), they all wont be able to stay here, both for money reasons, for ego reasons ( wanting to be something more valuable to a team) , and also not wanting to be a 3rd, 4th fiddle....
That doesnt even include ainge licking his chops at all the value he has right now.
ITs a sad truth of the sport. Something that in prior teams and years when i was younger i always denied.....i always told myself these guys will always stick together. Not the case.
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Not sure but Hayward played beautifully last night.
The team is going to love and respect him and that’s great for
The team’s chemistry..
Any of them could be gone for Davis but I don’t think Davis will be moved,
Unless maybe the Sac pick lands at 2 to combine with a massive package.
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We're 15 games into a season where our team has an entirely new dynamic.....and yet people want to make snap decisions concerning extremely talented players.
We don't want to become the OKC Thunder.
Not a snap decision for me. It’s a legit evaluation of brown long term. He might be a better player in another situation but this is a bad one for him.
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Next year??? I don't think they all will be on the team at the end of this year..
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We are starting to come together. Great win last night. No reason to make moves right now. Irving now fired off all the rust and hayward doesn't look far behind him.
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We're 15 games into a season where our team has an entirely new dynamic.....and yet people want to make snap decisions concerning extremely talented players.
We don't want to become the OKC Thunder.
It is the opposite.
The most difficult thing for a fan to accept is a team with two many potential good players.
One ball syndrome,
I know our fans love these guys, especially as they were drafted here, but Tatum's quick rise along with Hayward's signing has made it clear that while all these guys can co-exist and win (we know they can win together), they all wont be able to stay here, both for money reasons, for ego reasons ( wanting to be something more valuable to a team) , and also not wanting to be a 3rd, 4th fiddle....
That doesnt even include ainge licking his chops at all the value he has right now.
ITs a sad truth of the sport. Something that in prior teams and years when i was younger i always denied.....i always told myself these guys will always stick together. Not the case.
History says you are absolutely correct. Quite frankly, I can't disagree. However, here is some food for thought:
- Tatum would be averaging 19.3 PPG if his shooting efficiency was equivalent to last season. I think he can create enough good looks in this offense to match his rookie efficiency on higher volume. Long term he should have no issues averaging 20+ PPG without completely dominating touches on offense.
- Jaylen would be right at his 14.5 PPG from last season if he matched last seasons efficiency.
There are two crucial questions in regards to keeping this core together long term. Will they be become an elite scoring team in both volume and efficiency? On paper they have the potential to be closer to a 115+ PPG in the modern NBA. There's no way they stay together if this doesn't happen.
The other question is will Kyrie give Tatum and Jaylen the opportunity to thrive as they begin to enter their prime years? I'm starting to believe that Kyrie would sacrifice personal statistics if it means being part of an extended championship window. At the end of the day he will never lose his role as an elite closer, but I could absolutely envision him allowing the young guys to carry the load throughout the duration of a long regular season. For example, would Kyrie live with 18 PPG at career high levels of efficiency? As for Hayward, I think he could settle into a 17-18 PPG, 5 RPG, and 5 APG role, as long as the team is winning. He already earned his big payday.
Obviously we don't know the answers to these questions, but the optimist in me hopes that Ainge and Steven's can make something like this work.
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If I recall correctly - Al (and maybe Gordo's) contract expires as Brown and some of the young ones are set to re-up.
To tinker with a completely new team because they have had a slow start (but are still 9-6 after a pretty tough road trip) is how you end up being the Washington Wizards.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/BOS.html
Horford and Brown are up the same time
Hayward and Tatum are up the same time
Horfod won't get a big contact, maybe someth along the blines of Bayens but a little better. No insult to big Al but he should reup for a bench role. We'll see where Robert Williams is in two years and what next years rookies look like. We may get a nice big man with the Kings or Grizzlies pick.
Hayward is younger and could still start, but if we pay Brown that will affect what we can do for Hayward because Tatum is getting a max contract. Alot depends on Brown's development and Hayward's ability to return to form.
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We're 15 games into a season where our team has an entirely new dynamic.....and yet people want to make snap decisions concerning extremely talented players.
We don't want to become the OKC Thunder.
It is the opposite.
The most difficult thing for a fan to accept is a team with two many potential good players.
One ball syndrome,
I know our fans love these guys, especially as they were drafted here, but Tatum's quick rise along with Hayward's signing has made it clear that while all these guys can co-exist and win (we know they can win together), they all wont be able to stay here, both for money reasons, for ego reasons ( wanting to be something more valuable to a team) , and also not wanting to be a 3rd, 4th fiddle....
That doesnt even include ainge licking his chops at all the value he has right now.
ITs a sad truth of the sport. Something that in prior teams and years when i was younger i always denied.....i always told myself these guys will always stick together. Not the case.
History says you are absolutely correct. Quite frankly, I can't disagree. However, here is some food for thought:
- Tatum would be averaging 19.3 PPG if his shooting efficiency was equivalent to last season. I think he can create enough good looks in this offense to match his rookie efficiency on higher volume. Long term he should have no issues averaging 20+ PPG without completely dominating touches on offense.
- Jaylen would be right at his 14.5 PPG from last season if he matched last seasons efficiency.
There are two crucial questions in regards to keeping this core together long term. Will they be become an elite scoring team in both volume and efficiency? On paper they have the potential to be closer to a 115+ PPG in the modern NBA. There's no way they stay together if this doesn't happen.
The other question is will Kyrie give Tatum and Jaylen the opportunity to thrive as they begin to enter their prime years? I'm starting to believe that Kyrie would sacrifice personal statistics if it means being part of an extended championship window. At the end of the day he will never lose his role as an elite closer, but I could absolutely envision him allowing the young guys to carry the load throughout the duration of a long regular season. For example, would Kyrie live with 18 PPG at career high levels of efficiency? As for Hayward, I think he could settle into a 17-18 PPG, 5 RPG, and 5 APG role, as long as the team is winning. He already earned his big payday.
Obviously we don't know the answers to these questions, but the optimist in me hopes that Ainge and Steven's can make something like this work.
Its true, they would be #1 easily if they were playing up to standard, but part of the problem is what I mentioned, that could be the main reason why they arent up to standard, thus our reason connecting eachother.
Also which is why I said and what Celtic fans have said. If this team plays efficiently , they are easily top 3 in the league and can make some big time noise.
I think they can do that, but Ainge might see a better opportunity and he will also take into account what he will have to do down the road.
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I expect them all to be here. Why not?
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I would expect them all to be here. However if Danny were to pull the trigger on something major it would involve Brown.
Hayward as no value right now plus you have issue of dealing a guy you wooed to get here, suffers the unfortunate injury and you ship him out of town within a year of his comeback? Tatum has the highest upside of the 3. He's not going anywhere.
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Unfortunately, Hayward was injured... because he has a skill set that neither Brown or Tatum can compete with.
Gordon is a very good passer, his basketball IQ is superior to both. He's also a solid experienced defender who uses savvy to compete. In a pinch, he can be the main distributor of the ball similar to what Horford does. Pre-injury he scored at a 22.0 point per game clip. He scores in many different ways too.
I don't see how the Celtics could just unload him for pennies on the dollar and then make an offer to another premier free agent and be taken seriously.
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I used to think the sum of our star talent young players, and we have so many, is greater than one generational player like AD or Durant.
But really...5 at a time. Get the best 5 you can, right?
Brown, Rozier, and those picks next year should perk up some GM ears. It's a KG-like 2-young potential impact players plus picks, with Yabu playing filler role (Gomes?) and Smart as Marcus Banks.
It kinda works in the mind. If AD moves, he comes here with Horford, Irving, and yes Hayward.
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Unfortunately, Hayward was injured... because he has a skill set that neither Brown or Tatum can compete with.
Gordon is a very good passer, his basketball IQ is superior to both. He's also a solid experienced defender who uses savvy to compete. In a pinch, he can be the main distributor of the ball similar to what Horford does. Pre-injury he scored at a 22.0 point per game clip. He scores in many different ways too.
I don't see how the Celtics could just unload him for pennies on the dollar and then make an offer to another premier free agent and be taken seriously.
TP! I was also very impressed with Hayward during the 2016 postseason. He maintained a high level of efficiency as a #1 option when the games counted most. Hopefully he can turn into the old version of himself by the end of the season, worst case next year.
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If I recall correctly - Al (and maybe Gordo's) contract expires as Brown and some of the young ones are set to re-up.
To tinker with a completely new team because they have had a slow start (but are still 9-6 after a pretty tough road trip) is how you end up being the Washington Wizards.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/BOS.html
Horford and Brown are up the same time
Hayward and Tatum are up the same time
Horfod won't get a big contact, maybe someth along the blines of Bayens but a little better. No insult to big Al but he should reup for a bench role. We'll see where Robert Williams is in two years and what next years rookies look like. We may get a nice big man with the Kings or Grizzlies pick.
Hayward is younger and could still start, but if we pay Brown that will affect what we can do for Hayward because Tatum is getting a max contract. Alot depends on Brown's development and Hayward's ability to return to form.
yea Horf will hopefully re-sign for a team friendly deal.
That is a nice failsafe. If we are really really unlucky and Hayward can't get back to at least 80%, we can go with a full youth movement.
If I recall correctly - Al (and maybe Gordo's) contract expires as Brown and some of the young ones are set to re-up.
To tinker with a completely new team because they have had a slow start (but are still 9-6 after a pretty tough road trip) is how you end up being the Washington Wizards.
Thats fine, but it’s not like brown is a max player or anything. Somlosing Hayward or horford for brown (for example) is a huge downgrade.
20 games ago Brown was taking us neck in neck against the Cleveland Cavaliers. 20 bad games does not a bad player make.
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I think we all have to accept that Anthony Davis isn't being traded anytime soon. New Orleans loves him. They went deeper into the playoffs last year with him than they had in 20 years. They look to be an obvious playoff team again. And....if AD gets traded he loses his supermax contract that would cost him tens of millions of dollars. Why would he want to be anywhere other than NO where he gets to be in the playoffs and make the most money?
Boston will not be trading for Anthony Davis. No one will be. Davis ilwill be a Pelican for a long time.
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I think we all have to accept that Anthony Davis isn't being traded anytime soon. New Orleans loves him. They went deeper into the playoffs last year with him than they had in 20 years. They look to be an obvious playoff team again. And....if AD gets traded he loses his supermax contract that would cost him tens of millions of dollars. Why would he want to be anywhere other than NO where he gets to be in the playoffs and make the most money?
Boston will not be trading for Anthony Davis. No one will be. Davis ilwill be a Pelican for a long time.
Disagree totally. Kawhi just gave up his super max, KD has taken discounts , AD is going to want out soon. NOP can’t let a guy that leave for nothing. Players are forcing teams hands right and left now, with Butler being the latest. I’ll be AD gets dealt this summer when he asks out. That’s when we pounce.
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I think we all have to accept that Anthony Davis isn't being traded anytime soon. New Orleans loves him. They went deeper into the playoffs last year with him than they had in 20 years. They look to be an obvious playoff team again. And....if AD gets traded he loses his supermax contract that would cost him tens of millions of dollars. Why would he want to be anywhere other than NO where he gets to be in the playoffs and make the most money?
Boston will not be trading for Anthony Davis. No one will be. Davis ilwill be a Pelican for a long time.
I dunno, we never know what's going on behind the scenes at some places. One season turned Kawhi from seeming Spur for life into a Raptor. Crazy things can happen
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Not sure the current roster stays the same this year.
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I think we all have to accept that Anthony Davis isn't being traded anytime soon. New Orleans loves him. They went deeper into the playoffs last year with him than they had in 20 years. They look to be an obvious playoff team again. And....if AD gets traded he loses his supermax contract that would cost him tens of millions of dollars. Why would he want to be anywhere other than NO where he gets to be in the playoffs and make the most money?
Boston will not be trading for Anthony Davis. No one will be. Davis ilwill be a Pelican for a long time.
Disagree totally. Kawhi just gave up his super max, KD has taken discounts , AD is going to want out soon. NOP can’t let a guy that leave for nothing. Players are forcing teams hands right and left now, with Butler being the latest. I’ll be AD gets dealt this summer when he asks out. That’s when we pounce.
If he does force a move, you assume that Davis will want to come here. Big assumption. Also keep in mind, his agent is now Klutch - i.e. LeBron.