Author Topic: ESPN on Pierce and KG  (Read 7241 times)

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ESPN on Pierce and KG
« on: December 12, 2008, 01:53:14 PM »

Offline drza44

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ESPN is running two new Celtics articles on their NBA page.  One is an extremely complimentary piece about Pierce written by David Thorpe: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Pierce-081212 .

The other is a critical blog on KG by Henry Abbott, another in the long line of (especially, but not exclusively) fans of other teams that are whining about KG's on-court personality: http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-37-45/Kevin-Garnett-s-Big-Mouth.html

I've got pretty strong feelings about the KG article, but I'm sure many will enjoy the shine for the Captain.  And some here agree with Abbott about KG, so maybe you'll enjoy that one as well.

Re: ESPN on Pierce and KG
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2008, 02:12:53 PM »

Offline Big Ticket

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I thought Abbott did a great job of staying unbiased and looking at it from both sides.  A good read overall.  Haven't had time to read through the Pierce article yet though.


"It ain't about me.  It's about us."  - KG, interview with John Thompson, 2005 All Star Game.

Re: ESPN on Pierce and KG
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2008, 02:27:22 PM »

Offline drza44

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I thought Abbott did a great job of staying unbiased and looking at it from both sides.  A good read overall.  Haven't had time to read through the Pierce article yet though.

Hmm.  I guess we just have a difference of opinion.  Abbott has made clear in the past (immedieately after the Celtics beat Portland, Abbott's favorite team) that he doesn't like KG's on-court persona.  And I thought that showed clearly in the article, where 3 of the 4 bullet points that he uses were clearly negative (Circus sideshow, elitism, menace).  Even the summary bullet point begins with two more negative-tilted anecdotes.

But I guess the real target of my ire isn't this particular article, it's that this (IMO) non-issue is getting SO MUCH RUN.  I guess I'm just irritated to see it now as a lead basketball article on the most popular sports site in the world, which means that it'll continue to be a bigger deal than it should be. 

Re: ESPN on Pierce and KG
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2008, 02:29:50 PM »

Offline FanInTheSouth

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I thought Abbott did a great job of staying unbiased and looking at it from both sides.  A good read overall.  Haven't had time to read through the Pierce article yet though.

I agree.  It is a very well written article, and I think that the only negative thing that Abbott says about KG was that his mouth isn't exactly something you would want younger kids to take after.  I can't say I would disagree with that. 

Abbott does print some things that others say about KG that isn't exactly flattering, but I didn't take it as he was on their side. 

Re: ESPN on Pierce and KG
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2008, 02:30:18 PM »

Offline NoraG1

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I wonder how all these fans and critics would feel if KG was on their team. Would they feel the same? I have a strong feeling that most of them would feel differently.

Re: ESPN on Pierce and KG
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2008, 02:40:59 PM »

Offline crownsy

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I wonder how all these fans and critics would feel if KG was on their team. Would they feel the same? I have a strong feeling that most of them would feel differently.

no one seemed to care before he was a boston athlete.

Face it- Boston athelte= Hated.

thats just the way it is now.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: ESPN on Pierce and KG
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2008, 02:44:18 PM »

Offline crownsy

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I thought Abbott did a great job of staying unbiased and looking at it from both sides.  A good read overall.  Haven't had time to read through the Pierce article yet though.

Hmm.  I guess we just have a difference of opinion.  Abbott has made clear in the past (immedieately after the Celtics beat Portland, Abbott's favorite team) that he doesn't like KG's on-court persona.  And I thought that showed clearly in the article, where 3 of the 4 bullet points that he uses were clearly negative (Circus sideshow, elitism, menace).  Even the summary bullet point begins with two more negative-tilted anecdotes.

But I guess the real target of my ire isn't this particular article, it's that this (IMO) non-issue is getting SO MUCH RUN.  I guess I'm just irritated to see it now as a lead basketball article on the most popular sports site in the world, which means that it'll continue to be a bigger deal than it should be. 

Gotta disagree as well, i thought abbot, while clearly not a fan of any kind of trash talking (which he is upfront about) presented alot of points of view on KG pretty well.

Alot of the stuff he qoutes is negitive, but thats just him showing how KG is viewed. IT's more of a picture of KG from a bunch of prospectives than a negitive article.

Pierce one is great, although it's based on a false premise, that pre-2007 pierce was some kind of soft primadonna and "toughend up" last year. Pierce has always been tough, what was new was his attutude and trust in his teamates and his defense. I think mostly the author got the "now he's tough after being soft!" angle wrong, but the point that paul is now a more complete player right.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: ESPN on Pierce and KG
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2008, 02:44:18 PM »

Offline FanInTheSouth

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I wonder how all these fans and critics would feel if KG was on their team. Would they feel the same? I have a strong feeling that most of them would feel differently.

no one seemed to care before he was a boston athlete.

Face it- Boston athelte= Hated.

thats just the way it is now.

As much as I hate to say it, you're right.  People always hate on the best teams, and right now Boston/New England has 3 of the best teams in sports.

TP.

Re: ESPN on Pierce and KG
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2008, 02:50:03 PM »

Offline fugazzi24

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It has ben said many times but David Thorpe is a Hack.  I liked the article because it is about Pierce, but I could give better basketball analysis then him when I was in middle school.

Re: ESPN on Pierce and KG
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2008, 02:55:23 PM »

Offline Hoops

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I'm changing the subject a little, but the last two posts fit nicely together for me. People generally dislike the guy at the top (hence the disdain for Boston sports teams). The same principle applies to ESPN - they're the top dog in the sport reporting world and people seem to enjoy bashing on people like Thorpe, Hollinger, and to a lesser extent Chad Ford. Personally, I don't get it.

Re: ESPN on Pierce and KG
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2008, 02:58:15 PM »

Offline Nerf DPOY

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I also have yet only to read the KG article, and TP to the OP BTW. I basically agreed with Abbott in regards to the trash talking and maniacal behavior. It's woven into the NBA decorum. Does KG take it too far? Yeah sometimes, but on the other hand, it's a necessary part of his make up. Grow up haters( that last part was my own commentary, and to take that a little further........).......

If the Celtics had 5 wins thus far, they wouldn't be having ten page threads over at Real GM titled "KG is a punk" every other day. No one would care. Bitter losers who can't simply accept another player/teams greatness don't want to dwell on the fact that the defending champs are once again dominating. They need some refuge, and decide that the focus should be on KG's antics instead.

And another thing; A lot of the haters out there often mention something to the affect of " He talks all this trash, but he never backs it up. Who has he ever beaten up?" They seem to be implying that he should punch somebody to validate his "smack". Did it ever occur to them that after witnessing all the talk and little action, that the trash talking was in fact a tactic; a tactic that probably has worked to his benefit a lot of the time? One of Abbotts sources actually did hit on the probable calculatedness of it all.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm surprised at the amount of opposing team's fans who wish to dedicate so much energy into focusing on another team's player running his mouth. Actually, I'm not surprised considering what I've read written about the Patriots these last few years.

Edit: Crownsy pretty much summed up my whole post in two sentences. drza44 too. Oh well, I'm posting it anyway.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 03:08:41 PM by Nerf DPOY »

Re: ESPN on Pierce and KG
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2008, 03:01:30 PM »

Offline crownsy

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I'm changing the subject a little, but the last two posts fit nicely together for me. People generally dislike the guy at the top (hence the disdain for Boston sports teams). The same principle applies to ESPN - they're the top dog in the sport reporting world and people seem to enjoy bashing on people like Thorpe, Hollinger, and to a lesser extent Chad Ford. Personally, I don't get it.

I think most people problem with the world wide leader is that they are now the borg with regards to sports, yet still want to be considered the number one spot for unbiased coverage. They now (quite clearly in my view) underreport damaging things about leagues they have huge marketing deals on (I.E timmy D and his fixing of games)

Its hard to respect thier objectivity as a reporting  organzation when they own a huge amount of game rights (see: college football, where they will soon own 92% of all broadcast rights on bowl games).

Just like i don't consider NESN my go to spot for unbiasied sox coverage, i no longer consider ESPN a vaild news outlet for objective sports reporting.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: ESPN on Pierce and KG
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2008, 03:08:55 PM »

Offline drza44

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Hmm.  I guess we just have a difference of opinion.  Abbott has made clear in the past (immedieately after the Celtics beat Portland, Abbott's favorite team) that he doesn't like KG's on-court persona.  And I thought that showed clearly in the article, where 3 of the 4 bullet points that he uses were clearly negative (Circus sideshow, elitism, menace).  Even the summary bullet point begins with two more negative-tilted anecdotes.

But I guess the real target of my ire isn't this particular article, it's that this (IMO) non-issue is getting SO MUCH RUN.  I guess I'm just irritated to see it now as a lead basketball article on the most popular sports site in the world, which means that it'll continue to be a bigger deal than it should be. 

Gotta disagree as well, i thought abbot, while clearly not a fan of any kind of trash talking (which he is upfront about) presented alot of points of view on KG pretty well.

Alot of the stuff he qoutes is negitive, but thats just him showing how KG is viewed. IT's more of a picture of KG from a bunch of prospectives than a negitive article.

Pierce one is great, although it's based on a false premise, that pre-2007 pierce was some kind of soft primadonna and "toughend up" last year. Pierce has always been tough, what was new was his attutude and trust in his teamates and his defense. I think mostly the author got the "now he's tough after being soft!" angle wrong, but the point that paul is now a more complete player right.

Again, it's about presentation.  The title is "Kevin Garnett's Big Mouth"...negative.  

3 of the 4 bullet points, including the first one (which sets the stage) and the last one (which leaves the final impression), were negative.  

Abbott chooses which anecdotes to use, and he tilted it heavily towards the negative.  He even stretched it to include quotes that weren't even about KG, as the very FIRST anecdote that he uses in the article (the QRich comment) was after a Celtics game that KG didn't even play in.  

Abbott spun the big baby situation to the negative, not even posting the obvious other side that perhaps KG wasn't personally attacking Baby and that possibly what KG did was an example of good leadership.  Whether Abbott agreed with that premise or not, it is a legit probability and if Abbott were really giving an unbiased accounting he'd have at least mentioned the other side.

I don't know.  To me, that wasn't an unbiased accounting.  But again, I posted this on here so that everyone could put their two cents in.  It's ok if yours doesn't agree with mine.

Re: ESPN on Pierce and KG
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2008, 03:10:18 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Maybe if this "KG's antics" thing continues to get run and other teams continue to get their panties in a bunch over it... some emotionally weak squads might decide to go straight at KG and "prove a point".  

Of course... that will just feed right into what KG wants... for their offensive structure to be broken down and for opposing players to selfishly attack the hoop where the Celtics can swallow them up and get the ball.

It's just mind games and intimidation tactics.  It obviously works.  It wears down opponents.  Dennis Rodman was a master at these kind of headgames... his "antics" were key in shaking up Karl Malone and the Jazz.  

I already mentioned my thoughts in that comment thread.  Basically... the Celtics offensively aren't yet a great team.  We mainly win games because of defense (which is one of the best in league history).  And defense is all about focus, intensity and effort.  It would be easy for the 2009 Celtics to start becoming immune to Garnett... maybe tune him out a little and start dogging it and giving weak effort.  KG doesn't allow that.  KG just ups his intensity to another level... where he's now screaming at himself, screaming at his teammates, screaming at opponents... crawling on the ground, reducing his own teammates to tears, etc.  He will NOT let this team "let up".  The guy is like a battery who sparks this team.  The rest of the squad picks up his personality to the point where even our 15th man (Bill Walker) doesn't mind jawwing with LeBron James.

I really don't think this team plays with the same focus and intensity and cutthroat attitude if you replaced Garnett with Tim Duncan.    Whatever KG is doing... it's clearly working... and we have a 21-2 record to show for it.  

And yes the entire league was on the KG bandwagon last year.  "Nobody deserves it more", they said.   Then he wins and everyone turns on him.  As always, people are jealous of winners.  But you really can't blame them.  The majority of people here have an undying hate for the Yankees and Lakers.  It's not because those teams were crappy...   
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 03:15:20 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: ESPN on Pierce and KG
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2008, 03:22:18 PM »

Offline ma11l

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Wasn't that QRich quote that he put in that article pointed at Leon and not KG?
"Take this down," said O'Neal. "My name is Shaquille O'Neal and Paul Pierce is the (expletive) truth. Quote me on that and don't take nothing out. I knew he could play, but I didn't know he could play like this. Paul Pierce is the truth."