O'Bryant hate

[keith]

What makes me skeptical about him is the so called lack of conditioning that is being said about him.You do not have to play in regular season games to be in condition.(especially in Nelson system your going to run constantly in practice.)So does this guy lack commitment,discipline what?This is how he makes his living.

[kozlodoev]

What makes me skeptical about him is the so called lack of conditioning that is being said about him.You do not have to play in regular season games to be in condition.(especially in Nelson system your going to run constantly in practice.)So does this guy lack commitment,discipline what?This is how he makes his living.

Actually, you do have to play meaningful minutes to retain top conditioning. Practice cannot simulate that.

[billysan]

Looking at O'Bryant as the backup or number 2 center is not necessarily accurate. There is a good chance that Leon Powe comes of the bench as the first big and that makes KG the number 2 center with Powe as the number 2 PF. Same thing we did last year with Posey.

In any case, O'Bryant has something now he never had on his past teams. Low expectations and Clifford Ray. I never thought Perk or Al Jefferson would amount to much especially after the first year or so we had them. Look at them now, I feel very fortunate that we hung on to Perk. I know everyone here wishes we still had Al and had still gotten KG.

The point is, many times the student is a reflection of his teacher. Even good teachers produce bad students if they use the wrong approach. I hope the light goes on for POB just like it did for Perk after a little time with uncle Cliffy. I will stay positive on this issue until I see negative results after a reasonable amount of time.

[CoachBo]

Personally, I wonder if anyone who posts so smugly on this thread about this guy's potential has ever seen him dominated in person - repeatedly - by inferior college centers and power forwards.

Keep telling yourselves his problem was Don Nelson.

Nice thread title, too. I always find great humor in these titles, "Anyone who disagrees with me is a hater."

[no kidding]

From what I've read, O'Bryant came late to organized basketball, and thought himself fortunate to get a college scholarship. When he went to college, he knew he needed a lot of development, and figured he'd be red-shirted (he wasn't). He then did better than expected in competition, and at the end of his sophomore season had a nice tournament showing. So even though he was clearly a project, he jumped at the chance to get pro money (and wouldn't we all).

Therefore, if indeed he was repeatedly dominated by inferior college centers, then I'm not that surprised.  I can think of a long list of NBA big men who took quite a while to grow into their bodies and to develop their games. (And an equally long list of guys who never did.)

One of the great things about sports is having the chance to watch that process. Let's see what happens with the kid.

[no kidding]

Oh, and by the way, I've never seen O'Bryant play at all. But the Celtics' coaching staff has, and they were excited about the guy, and wanted Ainge to sign him. So maybe that should count for something.

[guava_wrench]

Personally, I wonder if anyone who posts so smugly on this thread about this guy's potential has ever seen him dominated in person - repeatedly - by inferior college centers and power forwards.

Keep telling yourselves his problem was Don Nelson.

Nice thread title, too. I always find great humor in these titles, "Anyone who disagrees with me is a hater."

Infer what you will. When I started this thread, it was not to criticize the people who have followed him and found him wanting; it was to criticize the people who have violent knee-jerk reactions to moves without knowing enough about players and how they will be used.

An example of this is the people who went ballistic over the House signing last year. Especially the ones who draw conclusions based on numbers they see on his profile page.

I also find it bizarre, on the other hand, when people go crazy after watching his youtube highlight video. Yeah, unlike Perk, he can dunk an alley-oop and throw down a follow, but highlight videos don't represent the player's regular contribution. Just because he hit a hook shot in the video doesn't mean he can hit one regularly!

[zerophase]

Personally, I wonder if anyone who posts so smugly on this thread about this guy's potential has ever seen him dominated in person - repeatedly - by inferior college centers and power forwards.

Keep telling yourselves his problem was Don Nelson.

Nice thread title, too. I always find great humor in these titles, "Anyone who disagrees with me is a hater."

Infer what you will. When I started this thread, it was not to criticize the people who have followed him and found him wanting; it was to criticize the people who have violent knee-jerk reactions to moves without knowing enough about players and how they will be used.

An example of this is the people who went ballistic over the House signing last year. Especially the ones who draw conclusions based on numbers they see on his profile page.

I also find it bizarre, on the other hand, when people go crazy after watching his youtube highlight video. Yeah, unlike Perk, he can dunk an alley-oop and throw down a follow, but highlight videos don't represent the player's regular contribution. Just because he hit a hook shot in the video doesn't mean he can hit one regularly!

so basically, after back and forth argument, we've come to the conclusion that we honestly have no idea how he'll pan out until he starts to play in green.

[BballTim]

Personally, I wonder if anyone who posts so smugly on this thread about this guy's potential has ever seen him dominated in person - repeatedly - by inferior college centers and power forwards.

Keep telling yourselves his problem was Don Nelson.

Nice thread title, too. I always find great humor in these titles, "Anyone who disagrees with me is a hater."

  Is "Anyone who disagrees with me is a hater." any worse than "Personally, I wonder if anyone who posts so smugly on this thread about this guy's potential has ever seen him dominated in person - repeatedly - by inferior college centers and power forwards"? How embarrassing for those posters. I guess you can add some nba gms as well as almost everyone who predicts drafts to the list of people who will never approach your knowledge of the game.

  Get over yourself.

[no kidding]

It's quite true we don't know a lot about O'Bryant.  But this much we do know: 1) he's not going to show up at training camp and measure out to be only 6'7", 2) he's not on the downhill side of 30 (he's 22), 3) he must have something since he at least faked the Celtics' coaching staff into thinking he was a talent, 4) he doesn't have a track-record of being either a knucklehead or a bad citizen, 5) he did reasonably well in the NBA's development league, and 6) his contract didn't blow up the Celtics' payroll.

Maybe that's enough for starters.

[Roy Hobbs]

What makes me skeptical about him is the so called lack of conditioning that is being said about him.You do not have to play in regular season games to be in condition.(especially in Nelson system your going to run constantly in practice.)So does this guy lack commitment,discipline what?This is how he makes his living.

Actually, you do have to play meaningful minutes to retain top conditioning. Practice cannot simulate that.

I disagree.  Maybe to keep your basketball skills sharp you need regular playing time.  But conditioning?  If you get winded easily, that has absolutely nothing to do with you not playing under game conditions.  Rather, it's a reflection that you're not working out like you're supposed to.

[zerophase]

What makes me skeptical about him is the so called lack of conditioning that is being said about him.You do not have to play in regular season games to be in condition.(especially in Nelson system your going to run constantly in practice.)So does this guy lack commitment,discipline what?This is how he makes his living.

Actually, you do have to play meaningful minutes to retain top conditioning. Practice cannot simulate that.

I disagree.  Maybe to keep your basketball skills sharp you need regular playing time.  But conditioning?  If you get winded easily, that has absolutely nothing to do with you not playing under game conditions.  Rather, it's a reflection that you're not working out like you're supposed to.

ehh, the players always say, nothing simulates a real nba game, even with all the practices and workouts you do. as an athlete myself i fully understand what they mean. a player can be in shape but it'll take regular appearances and playing time before they get into "game shape."

[guava_wrench]

What makes me skeptical about him is the so called lack of conditioning that is being said about him.You do not have to play in regular season games to be in condition.(especially in Nelson system your going to run constantly in practice.)So does this guy lack commitment,discipline what?This is how he makes his living.

Who is saying he is poorly conditioned? Ainge already said the report of him being out of shape in the work-out was nonsense.

Did he have that reputation in GS?

[fan33]

What makes me skeptical about him is the so called lack of conditioning that is being said about him.You do not have to play in regular season games to be in condition.(especially in Nelson system your going to run constantly in practice.)So does this guy lack commitment,discipline what?This is how he makes his living.

Actually, you do have to play meaningful minutes to retain top conditioning. Practice cannot simulate that.

I disagree.  Maybe to keep your basketball skills sharp you need regular playing time.  But conditioning?  If you get winded easily, that has absolutely nothing to do with you not playing under game conditions.  Rather, it's a reflection that you're not working out like you're supposed to.

ehh, the players always say, nothing simulates a real nba game, even with all the practices and workouts you do. as an athlete myself i fully understand what they mean. a player can be in shape but it'll take regular appearances and playing time before they get into "game shape."

I'll confirm this opinion also in my experience. Especially at these guys size, they never push themselves harder than in actual prolonged competition, that's when they find they themselves do the amazing in combination with endurance and one day recoverys.

And this too is where it also takes being given the PT to develop which is essential for growth, that O'B hasn't really been given. I know, it's a double edged thing, but at least on this team with the cusion of surrounding tallent and cushion of R.S. games expected, someone like himself has a real possibility to shine given the backup C. PT, at least thru midseason, IMV...

I like the upside and the possibilitys

[Roy Hobbs]

What makes me skeptical about him is the so called lack of conditioning that is being said about him.You do not have to play in regular season games to be in condition.(especially in Nelson system your going to run constantly in practice.)So does this guy lack commitment,discipline what?This is how he makes his living.

Actually, you do have to play meaningful minutes to retain top conditioning. Practice cannot simulate that.

I disagree.  Maybe to keep your basketball skills sharp you need regular playing time.  But conditioning?  If you get winded easily, that has absolutely nothing to do with you not playing under game conditions.  Rather, it's a reflection that you're not working out like you're supposed to.

ehh, the players always say, nothing simulates a real nba game, even with all the practices and workouts you do. as an athlete myself i fully understand what they mean. a player can be in shape but it'll take regular appearances and playing time before they get into "game shape."

I'll confirm this opinion also in my experience. Especially at these guys size, they never push themselves harder than in actual prolonged competition, that's when they find they themselves do the amazing in combination with endurance and one day recoverys.

And this too is where it also takes being given the PT to develop which is essential for growth, that O'B hasn't really been given. I know, it's a double edged thing, but at least on this team with the cusion of surrounding tallent and cushion of R.S. games expected, someone like himself has a real possibility to shine given the backup C. PT, at least thru midseason, IMV...

I like the upside and the possibilitys

Perk improved his conditioning over the summer and during practice.  Big Al improved it over the summer.  I'm sure many, many other players have, as well.

Everybody -- including O'Bryant -- seems to admit that he didn't work hard enough his first two seasons.  Yet, it is only Celtics fans who have decided to blame Nelson for that.

You can improve conditioning through any number of drills.  If reports are true that O'Bryant was pulling at his shorts after 15 minutes of defensive drills, that has absolutely nothing -- nothing -- to do with the fact that he didn't get into regular season NBA games.  There are any number of players in YMCA and rec leagues around the country who can handle 15 minutes of basketball without huffing and puffing.

Hopefully, O'Bryant improves in this area.  Being around our big men, and especially Clifford Ray, will help.  Ultimately, though, it rests with him as to whether he's willing to work harder than he has in the past.