The (alleged) fractures in the Celtics locker room

[Junkyard Dawg]

how do nate and Quisy get lumped in with sheed?  quisy has underachieved, but where does anyone get that he's lazy or unmotivated?  and nate, are you kidding me?  yea he hasn't poured in 25 pts a game like we all somehow thought he would, but the last player in the world i would compare him to would be rasheed wallace.

[Q_FBE]

And why does this media goober write the club is fractured? Where is his evidence? Does he sneak into practices? How about Doc Rivers and his lame ass approach to coaching this year? He lets the players sleep in and have light practices and there is little evidence of preparation going on for games. Doc is the culprit here and we need a kick butt coach in there who will beat on those lazy veterans.

[guava_wrench]

how do nate and Quisy get lumped in with sheed?  quisy has underachieved, but where does anyone get that he's lazy or unmotivated?  and nate, are you kidding me?  yea he hasn't poured in 25 pts a game like we all somehow thought he would, but the last player in the world i would compare him to would be rasheed wallace.

How about if we look at focus? Don't Nate and Sheed share a lack of focus?

It seems expected that newer guys might stick together if the guys who've been around longer are already close.

[Roy Hobbs]

This whole story about the "fractured locker room" reminds me a lot of the story last year about a divide between older and younger players. I don't remember much about it, except that BBD was one of the "leaders" of the young guys. 

According to the recent story, BBD is now in the category of players that "bounces from group to group".  So in less than a season he goes from a dominant personality to a wallflower? 

It doesn't make sense.  None of it makes sense.  I think it is a lot of creative journalism (both last summer and now).

Here was the story I think you're referring to:

Rondo appeared to want his teammates to air out complaints in the early evening of April 14, but it rapidly deteriorated into a grievance session that had the uncomfortable vibe of the young guys against the Big 3 of Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen.  For some Celtics, there was a sense that Rondo had prodded the younger teammates to speak out on the tough-love tactics of the vets.

Rondo never vented, but one teammate who had challenged K.G. later confessed privately that he wished he had never spoken up, that he didn’t even believe the whiny words tumbling out of his mouth. Rondo insists he had the best of intentions, and yet there’s no mistaking the fact the meeting served to widen a gulf between him and his older teammates.

It was speculated that BBD was the player who stood up to KG, and then regretted it.  That would be perfectly consistent with a player who bounces between groups.

[mzepol]

^^^ The problem could be Rondo wanting to take over the reins and the vets being unready to turn over the reins to Rondo just yet.

[gpap]

This article by Washburn sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo. This is basketball, not Sociology 101.

The only concern should be to win games! Like Doc said, who cares which player hangs out with who in the locker room or after a game?

I don't understand why "locker room issues" have become such a concern here in Boston.

Give me a win and I am happy!!

[CoachBo]

This whole story about the "fractured locker room" reminds me a lot of the story last year about a divide between older and younger players. I don't remember much about it, except that BBD was one of the "leaders" of the young guys.  

According to the recent story, BBD is now in the category of players that "bounces from group to group".  So in less than a season he goes from a dominant personality to a wallflower?  

It doesn't make sense.  None of it makes sense.  I think it is a lot of creative journalism (both last summer and now).

Here was the story I think you're referring to:

Rondo appeared to want his teammates to air out complaints in the early evening of April 14, but it rapidly deteriorated into a grievance session that had the uncomfortable vibe of the young guys against the Big 3 of Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen.  For some Celtics, there was a sense that Rondo had prodded the younger teammates to speak out on the tough-love tactics of the vets.

Rondo never vented, but one teammate who had challenged K.G. later confessed privately that he wished he had never spoken up, that he didn’t even believe the whiny words tumbling out of his mouth. Rondo insists he had the best of intentions, and yet there’s no mistaking the fact the meeting served to widen a gulf between him and his older teammates.

It was speculated that BBD was the player who stood up to KG, and then regretted it.  That would be perfectly consistent with a player who bounces between groups.

None of us is in the locker room, and none of us is capable of rendering a legitimate opinion about the reports.

However, anyone who dismisses these reports out of hand has never been in a locker room. Team chemistry is a critical issue at every level of the game, and it is a volatile mixture that can very easily tip out of whack.

Ergo, it's not difficult at all, given the wildly uneven effort this team has displayed, to believe the reports. If the April 14 meeting report is anything close to accurate, then you can add chemistry to the obstacles this team will have to overcome to win at all in the playoffs. I could not disagree more strongly with the previous poster: When you're dealing with a team of small numbers, sociology is most assuredly an issue before every coach in America who has a basketball team.

Predictably, there will be posts in this thread attempting to spin this news, but here's reality: A team meeting that degenerates as these reports indicate at the end of the regular season has a very small percentage chance of actually helping the playoff run.

If this is true, the odds are FAR greater that this is just the latest signal of several that our stay in the 2010 playoffs will be brief.

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, my take on this is that something is there..whether it's small or large I couldn't say.

Whatever it is, it has been enough to dampen the effort in a few games this season.

If the bond on this team is truly there, then the hope is that none of us fans will Ever know what is going on. It needs to stay in the locker room and get resolved there.

I honestly have not seen (in my almost 30 yrs of Celtics Fandom) a team with this much talent just have teams come into their house and throttle them.

The lack of effort is/has been concerning to me, even with my borderline crazy optimism.

I titled my profile with "1819" because I remember Danny saying back in 2009 that Boston can contend for the next couple of years. I still believe that.

This team is as talented (if not more than) the Spurs or even the Lakers. I firmly believe that.

But They need to start believing that. And it starts in that Locker Room. And it starts on Sunday.

[thirstyboots18]

Well, my take on this is that something is there..whether it's small or large I couldn't say.

Whatever it is, it has been enough to dampen the effort in a few games this season.

If the bond on this team is truly there, then the hope is that none of us fans will Ever know what is going on. It needs to stay in the locker room and get resolved there.

I honestly have not seen (in my almost 30 yrs of Celtics Fandom) a team with this much talent just have teams come into their house and throttle them.

The lack of effort is/has been concerning to me, even with my borderline crazy optimism.

I titled my profile with "1819" because I remember Danny saying back in 2009 that Boston can contend for the next couple of years. I still believe that.

This team is as talented (if not more than) the Spurs or even the Lakers. I firmly believe that.

But They need to start believing that. And it starts in that Locker Room. And it starts on Sunday.

My thoughts, too.  I do believe that injuries were the story during the regular season, but the regular season is over. I still believe.  They are the ones who have to believe AND follow that belief with effort in order  to reach the goal.

[jasail]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I would be very disappointed in KG, Paul and Ray if they let other personalities lead this team.  I've worked with difficult personalities before and I know how tough they can make things.  But it is the responsibilities of the leaders to make it work, to try to bring guys in to the fold.

At the same time I absolutely understand the young/old split.  If I am Sheldon or Glen I would be angry as hell that I get fewer minutes and get pulled for a bone head play, but Wallace still gets his 20+ a night regardless of how he is playing, particularly if I was Glen.  Despite his lack of maturity he played hard last year and stepped up his game when KG and Leon went down. Now he is playing second fiddle to a guy he outplays on most nights, that has to be infuriating.    

However, I think the problem with this teams regular season was a lack of interest.  They are confident, they knew they would make the playoffs, so they did not play with urgency.  The problem is whether or not turning it on is a reality.

The story of this season will be written from this point forward.  If it turns out they can't amp it up they will be remembered as lazy, unmotivated, overly confident and old. If they can, they will be heralded for their pacing themselves, realizing their limitations, their veteran savvy and fresh legs.

After sacrificing so many a night watching this team flounder a certain vengeful and spiteful part of me wants to see them fall on their face.  However, I bled green during decades of mediocrity, so the dominating fan-boy in me just wants to look beyond personal frustration and cheer for the laundry.

Anyway that is my $0.02  

[Eja117]

It's easy to point out underachievers on this team, but that is only half the story.

If Sheed is such a bad apple, who infects people with laziness, how do we explain the fact that Tony Allen has gotten better this year?

Or that Rondo, who just signed a huge contract and therefore has every incentive to play worse than he did last year, and in addition is playing on a team with such a bad apple, is in fact playing better?

I'm sick of the "Sheed is a bad apple" stories.  I think they're rotten* and make for unoriginal reporting.

*yes, that was a pun 

Well I guess they could write a big article on how Sheed is a real stand up character guy and that everyone can see that in how he plays and carries himself, but most of us stopped beliving in the tooth fairy and stories like that a long long time ago

[moiso]

Rasheed is a cancer.  The common theory around here prior to this year was that the C's can take on any fool and because of the enormous peer pressure from KG and Big 3, they would just fall in line.  I never bought into that line of thinking, and it's painfully obvious now that it's just not true.

[looseball]

I don't know about fractured, but UBUNTU seems to be just a word and not a deeply imbedded philosophy, appearing only in flashes.  I have been saying that they should have gone somewhere again this year to meld and blend off the court for better trust and inclusion of the newer teammates on the court. It worked in the championship season (during the trip to Italy).

Ubuntu's just another word for...nothin left to lose...
Nothin, that's all that 'Sheed left me, yeah..
But winnin' chips was easy, Lord, when KG could get an oop,
Hey, winning chips was good enough for me, hmm hmm,
Good enough for me but not Nate Quis and Sheed.

na na na, na na na na

[kenmaine]

There's cliques in every locker room.  I think this is getting blown out of proportion.

Sure, I'm guessing there's been tension at times and clashing of egos.  Is it killing this team out on the floor?  I don't know and if it is, I'm not sure to what extent.

There definitely has been a different vibe around the team this year, though, right?  

I personally have a hard time believing that a team that won 62 games last year with KG missing a large chunk of the season is now barely winning 50 games for no other reason that it suddenly got old.  There's definitely been a different attitude this year, and it wouldn't shock me if some of that is due to a divided locker room.

I think the vibe is more of an effect of barely winning 50 games than a cause.  

Last season, Rajon, Ray, Pierce and Perk stayed healthy and played great all year and KG was great for the 50 some games prior to his injury.  We got a career year from Eddie, a good year from Scal and excellent bench play from Leon Powe.  Baby even turned it on by the playoffs

This season Ray's offensive prowess tanked, Pierce battled with debilitating injuries for about 20 games, KG struggled with injuries/decline from early on in the season, Perk fizzled in the 2nd half, Eddie crashed, Scal regressed, Leon Powe left, Baby lost his playoff form and our two prized recruits, Sheed and Daniels failed to make any positive impact.

Some of that was a result of age (Sheed's defensive mobility, Eddie's D, KG?), more of it was the result of injury (Pierce, KG, Powe, Perk), some regression to the mean (House, Scal, Baby).  The more mystifying story lines (Ray's half-season slump, Sheed's long-range shooting and Daniels' devolution into a passive non-factor) only account for a small part of the decline and I don't think they can explained by the new team vibe.

I think this team could have comfortably won 62 games if Sheed was able to approximate his prior season's rebound rate and 3-pt accuracy, Pierce and KG stayed healthy and played as many minutes as their prior season and Ray maintained his normal 3-pt shooting.


TP, perfect summation of the season.  

[MaineBleedsGreen]

This whole story about the "fractured locker room" reminds me a lot of the story last year about a divide between older and younger players. I don't remember much about it, except that BBD was one of the "leaders" of the young guys.  

According to the recent story, BBD is now in the category of players that "bounces from group to group".  So in less than a season he goes from a dominant personality to a wallflower?  

It doesn't make sense.  None of it makes sense.  I think it is a lot of creative journalism (both last summer and now).

Here was the story I think you're referring to:

Rondo appeared to want his teammates to air out complaints in the early evening of April 14, but it rapidly deteriorated into a grievance session that had the uncomfortable vibe of the young guys against the Big 3 of Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen.  For some Celtics, there was a sense that Rondo had prodded the younger teammates to speak out on the tough-love tactics of the vets.

Rondo never vented, but one teammate who had challenged K.G. later confessed privately that he wished he had never spoken up, that he didn’t even believe the whiny words tumbling out of his mouth. Rondo insists he had the best of intentions, and yet there’s no mistaking the fact the meeting served to widen a gulf between him and his older teammates.

It was speculated that BBD was the player who stood up to KG, and then regretted it.  That would be perfectly consistent with a player who bounces between groups.

None of us is in the locker room, and none of us is capable of rendering a legitimate opinion about the reports.

However, anyone who dismisses these reports out of hand has never been in a locker room. Team chemistry is a critical issue at every level of the game, and it is a volatile mixture that can very easily tip out of whack.

Ergo, it's not difficult at all, given the wildly uneven effort this team has displayed, to believe the reports. If the April 14 meeting report is anything close to accurate, then you can add chemistry to the obstacles this team will have to overcome to win at all in the playoffs. I could not disagree more strongly with the previous poster: When you're dealing with a team of small numbers, sociology is most assuredly an issue before every coach in America who has a basketball team.

Predictably, there will be posts in this thread attempting to spin this news, but here's reality: A team meeting that degenerates as these reports indicate at the end of the regular season has a very small percentage chance of actually helping the playoff run.

If this is true, the odds are FAR greater that this is just the latest signal of several that our stay in the 2010 playoffs will be brief.

You're getting confused. That quote about the player meeting was from before LAST years playoffs, not this year.