Idea....Helps Everyone...Pels/Boston

[wiley]

I know some of you are convinced that if we don't keep Kyrie or land Davis the sky will fall.  You are wrong on that.

In any case, this idea involves a sign and trade whose legitamacy I can't judge....so shoot it down feasibility-wise if necessary.

But if it is feasible, I like it. 

How is Kyrie's relationship with Griffin, the former Cavs GM now in charge in New Orleans, who has vowed to try and keep AD there in the Big Easy? 

Do Kyrie and Griffin have a good relationship with each other? 

How about sign and trade Kyrie Iriving and pick 22 to the Pelicans for Jrue Holiday, salary and the Pelicans lottery pick? 

Irving may not want to be in New Orleans, but with AD staying he certainly might consider it.  If the Pels get pick 1-3 in tonight's lottery we could then throw in Tatum as well, perfect for Kyrie to add another friend and a needed wing for the Pels.  Celtics get a top three pick and Jrue Holiday.

If the Pels stay at pick 7, Tatum could still be added. Boston gets pick 7 and a future Pel's first rounder,

It think it's fair.  A great use of Irving imo.  I also think Brad Steven's and Hayward would love the heck out of it.  Not to mention a few others...

Now shred me on the cap if I deserve it.

[nickagneta]

I know some of you are convinced that if we don't keep Kyrie or land Davis the sky will fall.  You are wrong on that.

In any case, this idea involves a sign and trade whose legitamacy I can't judge....so shoot it down feasibility-wise if necessary.

But if it is feasible, I like it. 

How is Kyrie's relationship with Griffin, the former Cavs GM now in charge in New Orleans, who has vowed to try and keep AD there in the Big Easy? 

Do Kyrie and Griffin have a good relationship with each other? 

How about sign and trade Kyrie Iriving and pick 22 to the Pelicans for Jrue Holiday, salary and the Pelicans lottery pick? 

Irving may not want to be in New Orleans, but with AD staying he certainly might consider it.  If the Pels get pick 1-3 in tonight's lottery we could then throw in Tatum as well, perfect for Kyrie to add another friend and a needed wing for the Pels.  Celtics get a top three pick and Jrue Holiday, plus some salary.

If the Pels stay at pick 7, Tatum could still be added. Boston gets pick 7 and a future Pel's first rounder,

It think it's fair.  A great use of Irving imo.  I also think Brad Steven's and Hayward would love the heck out of it.  Not to mention a few others...

Now shred me on the cap if I deserve it.

Sign and trades have become almost obsolete now that you can only sign for 4 years and get just 5% annual raises. Financially, for the player, there is no incentive to agree to a sign and trade anymore.

What that means is for a player to want to agree to a sign and trade they need to be motivated to go to the other team. I don't see anyway that Kyrie decides to forgo signing outright with Boston, LAL, LAC, NYK or Brooklyn and agreeing to help out the Celtics to be in New Orleans.

In other words, unless a free agent superstar is trying to force his way onto a team that can't sign him outright, those players won't be helping out their teams in sign and trade scenarios.

Now someone like Rozier, who won't be getting max money, could be a sign and trade candidate because he might get a bigger contract in a sign and trade, but max level guys, unless they are focused on a team that can't outright sign them, they aren't doing sign and trades

[slamtheking]

I know some of you are convinced that if we don't keep Kyrie or land Davis the sky will fall.  You are wrong on that.

In any case, this idea involves a sign and trade whose legitamacy I can't judge....so shoot it down feasibility-wise if necessary.

But if it is feasible, I like it. 

How is Kyrie's relationship with Griffin, the former Cavs GM now in charge in New Orleans, who has vowed to try and keep AD there in the Big Easy? 

Do Kyrie and Griffin have a good relationship with each other? 

How about sign and trade Kyrie Iriving and pick 22 to the Pelicans for Jrue Holiday, salary and the Pelicans lottery pick? 

Irving may not want to be in New Orleans, but with AD staying he certainly might consider it.  If the Pels get pick 1-3 in tonight's lottery we could then throw in Tatum as well, perfect for Kyrie to add another friend and a needed wing for the Pels.  Celtics get a top three pick and Jrue Holiday.

If the Pels stay at pick 7, Tatum could still be added. Boston gets pick 7 and a future Pel's first rounder,

It think it's fair.  A great use of Irving imo.  I also think Brad Steven's and Hayward would love the heck out of it.  Not to mention a few others...

Now shred me on the cap if I deserve it.

interesting idea but adding Tatum is a no-go.  you're already giving NO the best player in the deal AND he'd be under contract for likely a few years.  that puts butts in the seats and gives AD reason to stay in NO. 

their pick at 7 with Holiday isn't enough especially if you're giving them a first rounder as well.   Kyrie can carry a team offensively (ignoring this last round of playoffs) whereas Holiday cannot.

losing Kyrie takes away our best go-to scorer so we're likely set back a bit.  don't see this as really helping us unless Kyrie is adamant about leaving but open to helping the C's get something in return for his departure (which really doesn't make any sense that he'd want to cost his new team assets)

[wiley]

I know some of you are convinced that if we don't keep Kyrie or land Davis the sky will fall.  You are wrong on that.

In any case, this idea involves a sign and trade whose legitamacy I can't judge....so shoot it down feasibility-wise if necessary.

But if it is feasible, I like it. 

How is Kyrie's relationship with Griffin, the former Cavs GM now in charge in New Orleans, who has vowed to try and keep AD there in the Big Easy? 

Do Kyrie and Griffin have a good relationship with each other? 

How about sign and trade Kyrie Iriving and pick 22 to the Pelicans for Jrue Holiday, salary and the Pelicans lottery pick? 

Irving may not want to be in New Orleans, but with AD staying he certainly might consider it.  If the Pels get pick 1-3 in tonight's lottery we could then throw in Tatum as well, perfect for Kyrie to add another friend and a needed wing for the Pels.  Celtics get a top three pick and Jrue Holiday, plus some salary.

If the Pels stay at pick 7, Tatum could still be added. Boston gets pick 7 and a future Pel's first rounder,

It think it's fair.  A great use of Irving imo.  I also think Brad Steven's and Hayward would love the heck out of it.  Not to mention a few others...

Now shred me on the cap if I deserve it.

Sign and trades have become almost obsolete now that you can only sign for 4 years and get just 5% annual raises. Financially, for the player, there is no incentive to agree to a sign and trade anymore.

What that means is for a player to want to agree to a sign and trade they need to be motivated to go to the other team. I don't see anyway that Kyrie decides to forgo signing outright with Boston, LAL, LAC, NYK or Brooklyn and agreeing to help out the Celtics to be in New Orleans.

In other words, unless a free agent superstar is trying to force his way onto a team that can't sign him outright, those players won't be helping out their teams in sign and trade scenarios.

Now someone like Rozier, who won't be getting max money, could be a sign and trade candidate because he might get a bigger contract in a sign and trade, but max level guys, unless they are focused on a team that can't outright sign them, they aren't doing sign and trades

Oh yes, thought of that on my way to work....thank you for reminder!  And for other cap info too...
Irving would have to be really tight with Griffin and really in love with Tatum as incentives....a 4 year delay in financial re-imbursment is surely not realistic.  Dang.

[nickagneta]

I know some of you are convinced that if we don't keep Kyrie or land Davis the sky will fall.  You are wrong on that.

In any case, this idea involves a sign and trade whose legitamacy I can't judge....so shoot it down feasibility-wise if necessary.

But if it is feasible, I like it. 

How is Kyrie's relationship with Griffin, the former Cavs GM now in charge in New Orleans, who has vowed to try and keep AD there in the Big Easy? 

Do Kyrie and Griffin have a good relationship with each other? 

How about sign and trade Kyrie Iriving and pick 22 to the Pelicans for Jrue Holiday, salary and the Pelicans lottery pick? 

Irving may not want to be in New Orleans, but with AD staying he certainly might consider it.  If the Pels get pick 1-3 in tonight's lottery we could then throw in Tatum as well, perfect for Kyrie to add another friend and a needed wing for the Pels.  Celtics get a top three pick and Jrue Holiday, plus some salary.

If the Pels stay at pick 7, Tatum could still be added. Boston gets pick 7 and a future Pel's first rounder,

It think it's fair.  A great use of Irving imo.  I also think Brad Steven's and Hayward would love the heck out of it.  Not to mention a few others...

Now shred me on the cap if I deserve it.

Sign and trades have become almost obsolete now that you can only sign for 4 years and get just 5% annual raises. Financially, for the player, there is no incentive to agree to a sign and trade anymore.

What that means is for a player to want to agree to a sign and trade they need to be motivated to go to the other team. I don't see anyway that Kyrie decides to forgo signing outright with Boston, LAL, LAC, NYK or Brooklyn and agreeing to help out the Celtics to be in New Orleans.

In other words, unless a free agent superstar is trying to force his way onto a team that can't sign him outright, those players won't be helping out their teams in sign and trade scenarios.

Now someone like Rozier, who won't be getting max money, could be a sign and trade candidate because he might get a bigger contract in a sign and trade, but max level guys, unless they are focused on a team that can't outright sign them, they aren't doing sign and trades

Oh yes, thought of that on my way to work....thank you for reminder!  And for other cap info too...
Irving would have to be really tight with Griffin and really in love with Tatum as incentives....a 4 year delay in financial re-imbursment is surely not realistic.  Dang.

I think you are misunderstanding me. There would be no financial delay. If Kyrie signs outright with someone or gets S&Ted to someone he gets the same contract with a maximum of four years and a max of 5% yearly increases.

Boston, owning his Bird rights, is the only team that can offer him a better contract, one that can go to a max of 5 years and have 8% yearly raises.

In the past, those 5 year deals were available to be given in S&Ts. That gave the player the incentive to be involved in a sign and trade. By scaling back what could be offered in a sign and trade, it basically made the S&Ts obsolete for star, max level players unless, as I said, they are trying to force their way on to a team that doesn't have the cap space to sign them.

Therefore, these ideas of signing and trading Kyrie for the simple purpose of getting something back for losing Kyrie make no sense. If Kyrie isn't trying to initialize the S&T, he isn't going to be involved in one.

[wiley]

I know some of you are convinced that if we don't keep Kyrie or land Davis the sky will fall.  You are wrong on that.

In any case, this idea involves a sign and trade whose legitamacy I can't judge....so shoot it down feasibility-wise if necessary.

But if it is feasible, I like it. 

How is Kyrie's relationship with Griffin, the former Cavs GM now in charge in New Orleans, who has vowed to try and keep AD there in the Big Easy? 

Do Kyrie and Griffin have a good relationship with each other? 

How about sign and trade Kyrie Iriving and pick 22 to the Pelicans for Jrue Holiday, salary and the Pelicans lottery pick? 

Irving may not want to be in New Orleans, but with AD staying he certainly might consider it.  If the Pels get pick 1-3 in tonight's lottery we could then throw in Tatum as well, perfect for Kyrie to add another friend and a needed wing for the Pels.  Celtics get a top three pick and Jrue Holiday, plus some salary.

If the Pels stay at pick 7, Tatum could still be added. Boston gets pick 7 and a future Pel's first rounder,

It think it's fair.  A great use of Irving imo.  I also think Brad Steven's and Hayward would love the heck out of it.  Not to mention a few others...

Now shred me on the cap if I deserve it.

Sign and trades have become almost obsolete now that you can only sign for 4 years and get just 5% annual raises. Financially, for the player, there is no incentive to agree to a sign and trade anymore.

What that means is for a player to want to agree to a sign and trade they need to be motivated to go to the other team. I don't see anyway that Kyrie decides to forgo signing outright with Boston, LAL, LAC, NYK or Brooklyn and agreeing to help out the Celtics to be in New Orleans.

In other words, unless a free agent superstar is trying to force his way onto a team that can't sign him outright, those players won't be helping out their teams in sign and trade scenarios.

Now someone like Rozier, who won't be getting max money, could be a sign and trade candidate because he might get a bigger contract in a sign and trade, but max level guys, unless they are focused on a team that can't outright sign them, they aren't doing sign and trades

Oh yes, thought of that on my way to work....thank you for reminder!  And for other cap info too...
Irving would have to be really tight with Griffin and really in love with Tatum as incentives....a 4 year delay in financial re-imbursment is surely not realistic.  Dang.

I think you are misunderstanding me. There would be no financial delay. If Kyrie signs outright with someone or gets S&Ted to someone he gets the same contract with a maximum of four years and a max of 5% yearly increases.

Boston, owning his Bird rights, is the only team that can offer him a better contract, one that can go to a max of 5 years and have 8% yearly raises.

In the past, those 5 year deals were available to be given in S&Ts. That gave the player the incentive to be involved in a sign and trade. By scaling back what could be offered in a sign and trade, it basically made the S&Ts obsolete for star, max level players unless, as I said, they are trying to force their way on to a team that doesn't have the cap space to sign them.

Therefore, these ideas of signing and trading Kyrie for the simple purpose of getting something back for losing Kyrie make no sense. If Kyrie isn't trying to initialize the S&T, he isn't going to be involved in one.

I got it...my comment about delay was a suggestion that Griffin could promise something sweet (extra money?, contract incentives?) in the next contract after the one he's about to sign, to make up the 3% less in raises each year.  I'm guessing that's unrealistic though or borderiine against the rules (especially against the new sign and trade rules....to prevent circumventing those rules...).

[mr. dee]

I know some of you are convinced that if we don't keep Kyrie or land Davis the sky will fall.  You are wrong on that.

In any case, this idea involves a sign and trade whose legitamacy I can't judge....so shoot it down feasibility-wise if necessary.

But if it is feasible, I like it. 

How is Kyrie's relationship with Griffin, the former Cavs GM now in charge in New Orleans, who has vowed to try and keep AD there in the Big Easy? 

Do Kyrie and Griffin have a good relationship with each other? 

How about sign and trade Kyrie Iriving and pick 22 to the Pelicans for Jrue Holiday, salary and the Pelicans lottery pick? 

Irving may not want to be in New Orleans, but with AD staying he certainly might consider it.  If the Pels get pick 1-3 in tonight's lottery we could then throw in Tatum as well, perfect for Kyrie to add another friend and a needed wing for the Pels.  Celtics get a top three pick and Jrue Holiday, plus some salary.

If the Pels stay at pick 7, Tatum could still be added. Boston gets pick 7 and a future Pel's first rounder,

It think it's fair.  A great use of Irving imo.  I also think Brad Steven's and Hayward would love the heck out of it.  Not to mention a few others...

Now shred me on the cap if I deserve it.

Sign and trades have become almost obsolete now that you can only sign for 4 years and get just 5% annual raises. Financially, for the player, there is no incentive to agree to a sign and trade anymore.

What that means is for a player to want to agree to a sign and trade they need to be motivated to go to the other team. I don't see anyway that Kyrie decides to forgo signing outright with Boston, LAL, LAC, NYK or Brooklyn and agreeing to help out the Celtics to be in New Orleans.

In other words, unless a free agent superstar is trying to force his way onto a team that can't sign him outright, those players won't be helping out their teams in sign and trade scenarios.

Now someone like Rozier, who won't be getting max money, could be a sign and trade candidate because he might get a bigger contract in a sign and trade, but max level guys, unless they are focused on a team that can't outright sign them, they aren't doing sign and trades

The incentive for Kyrie or the team he prefer is that they could get one more year using the bird rights. But yeah, I wish NBA could create a rule that would protect teams from franchise players who plans to bolt out.

[nickagneta]

I know some of you are convinced that if we don't keep Kyrie or land Davis the sky will fall.  You are wrong on that.

In any case, this idea involves a sign and trade whose legitamacy I can't judge....so shoot it down feasibility-wise if necessary.

But if it is feasible, I like it. 

How is Kyrie's relationship with Griffin, the former Cavs GM now in charge in New Orleans, who has vowed to try and keep AD there in the Big Easy? 

Do Kyrie and Griffin have a good relationship with each other? 

How about sign and trade Kyrie Iriving and pick 22 to the Pelicans for Jrue Holiday, salary and the Pelicans lottery pick? 

Irving may not want to be in New Orleans, but with AD staying he certainly might consider it.  If the Pels get pick 1-3 in tonight's lottery we could then throw in Tatum as well, perfect for Kyrie to add another friend and a needed wing for the Pels.  Celtics get a top three pick and Jrue Holiday, plus some salary.

If the Pels stay at pick 7, Tatum could still be added. Boston gets pick 7 and a future Pel's first rounder,

It think it's fair.  A great use of Irving imo.  I also think Brad Steven's and Hayward would love the heck out of it.  Not to mention a few others...

Now shred me on the cap if I deserve it.

Sign and trades have become almost obsolete now that you can only sign for 4 years and get just 5% annual raises. Financially, for the player, there is no incentive to agree to a sign and trade anymore.

What that means is for a player to want to agree to a sign and trade they need to be motivated to go to the other team. I don't see anyway that Kyrie decides to forgo signing outright with Boston, LAL, LAC, NYK or Brooklyn and agreeing to help out the Celtics to be in New Orleans.

In other words, unless a free agent superstar is trying to force his way onto a team that can't sign him outright, those players won't be helping out their teams in sign and trade scenarios.

Now someone like Rozier, who won't be getting max money, could be a sign and trade candidate because he might get a bigger contract in a sign and trade, but max level guys, unless they are focused on a team that can't outright sign them, they aren't doing sign and trades

The incentive for Kyrie or the team he prefer is that they could get one more year using the bird rights. But yeah, I wish NBA could create a rule that would protect teams from franchise players who plans to bolt out.

It used to be that way. It's not anymore. He can only sign a four year deal in a sign and trade. I even said so in the post you quoted.

[wiley]

This misbegotten sign and trade thing, post lottery, turns into a fantasy of Kyrie and Anthony Davis getting together and pressuring Griffin (Pel's new GM, ex Cavs GM, friend of Danny) to trade Zion for Tatum and a bunch of stuff, which, if Griffin appeases them, Kyrie agrees to sign there in New Orleans.

Tatum, Robert Williams, Ojeleye, Memphis pick and Sac pick for Zion Williamson. 

Pelicans:

Irving, Holiday
Holiday, Moore
Tatum, Ojeleye, Nassir Little/Keldon Johnson/Or pick 14 on a center like Bol Bol or Bruno Fernando, etc...
Randle, AD
AD, Robert Williams, Bol Bol/Bruno Fernando/Bitadze, etc...

plus Memphis pick

Great great team...in the West where they won't bother us much til the end...


Celtics:

Smart, Rozier
Brown, Thybulle (pick 22...mature...ready to go)
Hayward, Cam Johnson (pick 20...mature...ready to go)
Zion, Morris
Horford, Baynes

Great team with a longterm core of Zion, Brown, Smart....and hope for Johnson/Thybulle/Etc....could also go with others at 20 and 22....Bitadze/Herro/PJ Washington/Brandon Clarke/Kevin Porter..etc.

Zion gives us a freak of our own.  A larger than life PF who will grow and improve...and intimidate people coming into the lane.

EDIT:  we should get pick 37 in that deal as well....we'd need bodies....Pels wouldn't.  Grab Windler or Schofield or Paschall....Carsen Edwards...etc...