Bird quote relevant to Rondo/Paul Debate

[CoachBo]

“It doesn't matter who scores the points, it's who can get the ball to the scorer.”
  -Larry Bird

I don't know when or where Larry Bird said this (found it on thinkexist), but it expresses how I feel in the Rondo/Paul debates.  I am very impressed with Paul, but I feel like Rondo makes everyone around him better, and I think he can still get better as a young player.  

  I'm a newbie to the board.  Been lurking for a while though.  Go Celts.

 

Don't really agree.  Rondo's biggest problem is that his lack of offense can be used against the Celts in the half court, especially in the playoffs.  While he certainly does a lot to help others score, in many cases, his presence on the floor "squeezes" the offense and inhibits the other players.  Teams, at least the smart ones, do not hesitate to double off of of Rondo.  

So while Rondo certainly does more good than bad, his lack of offense is a detriment that many fans do not recognize.  

  I disagree with this. Go on 82games and compare the Celts shooting after the first 10 seconds of the shot clock (which probably qualifies as half court) to the other good teams in the league and it's hard to come to the conclusion that the Celts struggle to get off good shots or score in the half court.

  I would say that Rondo's problem is more his free throw shooting, because the times the offense usually breaks down is the last 1-2 minutes because Rondo's not handling the ball. Also consider that, in spite of not handling the ball for roughly a third of those late game close situations, Rondo led the league in assists in clutch time. obviously he's passing the ball to people who are open enough to score on a regular basis.

  

This is another one of those specious arguments concocted out of sabremetrics that measures nothing of value.

The eyes were clear: In the Miami series, when points were essential in the 4th quarter, the Heat won three games by playing 5 on 4 defensively and daring Rondo to shoot. He couldn't, especially surrounded by three aging scorers who now need scoring from the point perimeter in critical points that Rondo simply is not equipped to provide.

Rondo remains a liability in the halfcourt offense as a shooter. Not going to change. Either Danny finds scoring elsewhere, as he's attempting to do with Green, or those fourth quarters will be seen again. And again. Don't need a sabremetric measure that is woefully irrelevant in the fourth quarter discussion to distort the truth.

[Celtics18]

“It doesn't matter who scores the points, it's who can get the ball to the scorer.”
  -Larry Bird

I don't know when or where Larry Bird said this (found it on thinkexist), but it expresses how I feel in the Rondo/Paul debates.  I am very impressed with Paul, but I feel like Rondo makes everyone around him better, and I think he can still get better as a young player.  

  I'm a newbie to the board.  Been lurking for a while though.  Go Celts.

 

Don't really agree.  Rondo's biggest problem is that his lack of offense can be used against the Celts in the half court, especially in the playoffs.  While he certainly does a lot to help others score, in many cases, his presence on the floor "squeezes" the offense and inhibits the other players.  Teams, at least the smart ones, do not hesitate to double off of of Rondo.  

So while Rondo certainly does more good than bad, his lack of offense is a detriment that many fans do not recognize.  

  I disagree with this. Go on 82games and compare the Celts shooting after the first 10 seconds of the shot clock (which probably qualifies as half court) to the other good teams in the league and it's hard to come to the conclusion that the Celts struggle to get off good shots or score in the half court.

  I would say that Rondo's problem is more his free throw shooting, because the times the offense usually breaks down is the last 1-2 minutes because Rondo's not handling the ball. Also consider that, in spite of not handling the ball for roughly a third of those late game close situations, Rondo led the league in assists in clutch time. obviously he's passing the ball to people who are open enough to score on a regular basis.

  

This is another one of those specious arguments concocted out of sabremetrics that measures nothing of value.

The eyes were clear: In the Miami series, when points were essential in the 4th quarter, the Heat won three games by playing 5 on 4 defensively and daring Rondo to shoot. He couldn't, especially surrounded by three aging scorers who now need scoring from the point perimeter in critical points that Rondo simply is not equipped to provide.

Rondo remains a liability in the halfcourt offense as a shooter. Not going to change. Either Danny finds scoring elsewhere, as he's attempting to do with Green, or those fourth quarters will be seen again. And again. Don't need a sabremetric measure that is woefully irrelevant in the fourth quarter discussion to distort the truth.

Talk about specious arguments:  Rondo was playing with one arm in two and a half games of that series. 

Was Rondo a liability the previous season when he led the team past Cleveland in a series where everybody had us counted out against Lebron's mighty Cavs?

[dtrader]

You can argue that NashYou will be remembered as a better player than CP3, but I dont see how you could say that he's a better player than CP3 NOW. Nash is TERRIBLE at defense, where CP is good (and some games great).  CP is a much better rebounder as well.  Nash is a better shooter, and CP has an advantage as a slasher/finisher.  They're both elite PGs, but I dont think it makes sense to rank an older player with a clear weakness over a younger player with a more polished all around game.

I also dont agree with people calling CP a "diva".  He was the face of NO throughout all the tough times after Katrina, and has been a pillar of that community.  Now he's entering free agency, and he wants to play with his friends, in his favorite city.  I really dont think wanting to work with your friends or work in a city that you like is being a "diva".  If it is, most people in the world are divas.

I would argue that Paul has always been a better player than los Nash.  Regardless of what point they were / are in their careers.  It's not like los Nash just suddenly had a disregard for defense.  It's not like he's regressed.  Los Nash could probably slaughter Paul or Rondo in a game or horse...Or if the NBA game was played like 6 on 6 in small town Iowa....Unfortunately, there are two ends of the court in the NBA.  Los Nash has always played on only one.  

There's a thread on the blog about loyalty.  While Paul is on the Hornet's payroll, he should be giving his all to the Hornets.  Not grandstanding...Not leaking where his favorite city is or who he needs to play next to for satisfaction.  Those are qualities similar to last years shameless divas, the messiah and the snitchster.  I thought his effort and at least publicly, his demeanor last season in carrying his team to the playoffs was admirable.  I find nothing admirable about manipulating his team's management to get his way.  In the real world, if somebody, while under somebody's payroll, publically stated that they wanted to work for somebody else, they'd probably be fired.

What grandstanding has CP done?  Lebron did some grandstanding...he made his "decision" a media circus, and he kept his desires away from cavs management, so they were left without options.  CP hasnt done anything through the media.  He (allegedly) had his agent request a trade to NY.  He didnt hide his desire to be traded, and let it cost NO.  He also has never given anything but 110% on and off the court.  I dont see how he "leaked" where his favorite city is.  Any one that follows CP, knows that melo is one of his closest friends.  Anyone I know (if given the chance), would prefer to work with their friends.  Anyone I know would prefer to work in the favorite city.  Plus, CP isnt under NOs payroll...he's under the NBAs payroll, since they own the team.  It isnt like Lebrons departure costing dan gilbert millions.  If CP3 goes to NY it will probably MAKE the league (and therefore NO) $, because it will add another story line to the league, and further raise interest in a market that has a lot of $ potential (NY).  It sucks for NO to lose the face of their franchise, but that was happening either way....CP is just choosing where he's lost to.

[guava_wrench]

If people want to find a way to put down CP3, it shouldn't be his passing. The guy is a great passer. Rondo can be overrated for his passing because Rondo doesn't really keep his options open. He is thinking pass all the way. If CP3 could play that same role if he was as limited in his shooting ability and has the same quality teammates as Rondo. Of course, we no longer need just distribution from our PG as our other guys get older and less effective.

Rondo's plus is his peskiness on defense.

[BballTim]

“It doesn't matter who scores the points, it's who can get the ball to the scorer.”
  -Larry Bird

I don't know when or where Larry Bird said this (found it on thinkexist), but it expresses how I feel in the Rondo/Paul debates.  I am very impressed with Paul, but I feel like Rondo makes everyone around him better, and I think he can still get better as a young player.  

  I'm a newbie to the board.  Been lurking for a while though.  Go Celts.

 

Don't really agree.  Rondo's biggest problem is that his lack of offense can be used against the Celts in the half court, especially in the playoffs.  While he certainly does a lot to help others score, in many cases, his presence on the floor "squeezes" the offense and inhibits the other players.  Teams, at least the smart ones, do not hesitate to double off of of Rondo.  

So while Rondo certainly does more good than bad, his lack of offense is a detriment that many fans do not recognize.  

  I disagree with this. Go on 82games and compare the Celts shooting after the first 10 seconds of the shot clock (which probably qualifies as half court) to the other good teams in the league and it's hard to come to the conclusion that the Celts struggle to get off good shots or score in the half court.

  I would say that Rondo's problem is more his free throw shooting, because the times the offense usually breaks down is the last 1-2 minutes because Rondo's not handling the ball. Also consider that, in spite of not handling the ball for roughly a third of those late game close situations, Rondo led the league in assists in clutch time. obviously he's passing the ball to people who are open enough to score on a regular basis.

  

This is another one of those specious arguments concocted out of sabremetrics that measures nothing of value.

  Haha. Any time the stats disagree with your opinion you simply try and discredit them by calling them "sabermetrics". Maybe if that doesn't work you can start throwing around phrases like "new-fangled". God forbid that anyone actually compare how well the Celts score compare to other teams in a discussion about, well, how well the Celts score compared to other teams. Where's the logic in that?

The eyes were clear: In the Miami series, when points were essential in the 4th quarter, the Heat won three games by playing 5 on 4 defensively and daring Rondo to shoot. He couldn't, especially surrounded by three aging scorers who now need scoring from the point perimeter in critical points that Rondo simply is not equipped to provide.

  Yep. If you have a team whose main scorers are all perimeter scorers, what's the best thing to add to that mix? Of course, another perimeter scorer. The defense won't sag off of Rondo to protect the lane because there would be no need.

  I'd mention that part of the reason the Heat won was that Rondo hurt his elbow in the middle of the series, but that might be dangerously close to sounding like a statistic, which you would call a "sabermetric". Or, maybe that injury escaped those clear eyes of yours?

Rondo remains a liability in the halfcourt offense as a shooter. Not going to change. Either Danny finds scoring elsewhere, as he's attempting to do with Green, or those fourth quarters will be seen again. And again. Don't need a sabremetric measure that is woefully irrelevant in the fourth quarter discussion to distort the truth.

  Yep, any statistics about performance in the last few minutes of close games is, as far as you can see, completely irrelevant in a discussion about, well, scoring down the stretch in close games. If the numbers don't bear out what you recall seeing, don't even consider that you only remember certain games and not others, or that maybe you don't watch enough of other teams to know how the Celts stack up compared to them. Just call those stats sabermetrics or maybe even highfalutin sabermetrics, that should cover it.

[Celtics4ever]

Rondo was playing with one arm in the MIA series.  I thought his effort was nothing short of herioc, Coach Bo.  I think him getting hurt killed us more than the 4 on 5 stuff.