Bird quote relevant to Rondo/Paul Debate

[Finkelskyhook]

Could have but I would contend wouldn't have.  Parker would have averaged 35ppg against los Nash and Stoudemire wouldn't have been able to make up the difference against Duncan.

[dmny5000]

Paul can pass and score. When he has had scorers on his team they have played great. Peja, Tyson, and West all had some of the best years of their career playing with Paul. He will get the ball to Kevin, Ray, and Paul just like Rondo did. Yet, he will also spread the floor and take over when the offense breaks down way more then Rondo ever could.

CP3 is way more Steve Nash then he is Allen Iverson.

Well, You'd never and will never win a championship with either Los Nash or Iverson....And I doubt we'd win a championship with s swollen headed diva like Paul....Even though Paul is 10 times the player that Iverson or Los Nash is.

I have a hard time with that last sentence, Paul is not 10 times the player Nash is. In fact they're fairly close even now that Nash is older. Nash is worse because he plays no defense but he can shoot better than CP3 and he's a better passer. He's not nearly as athletic either which is a big one.

That being said CP3 is a better player all around but not 10 times better. I'm actually one of those that thinks Paul is overrated. He's a great player but I've seen Rondo have his way with him on many occasions. Too cocky and when Rondo plays Paul I'll take Rondo every time. Too much heart and he plays much harder.

I will say though that Rondo and Paul aren't far apart passing wise. Rondo is better but not by that much. Plus what went under the radar is that his mid range jumper was actually pretty decent last year.

[BballTim]

“It doesn't matter who scores the points, it's who can get the ball to the scorer.”
  -Larry Bird

I don't know when or where Larry Bird said this (found it on thinkexist), but it expresses how I feel in the Rondo/Paul debates.  I am very impressed with Paul, but I feel like Rondo makes everyone around him better, and I think he can still get better as a young player. 

  I'm a newbie to the board.  Been lurking for a while though.  Go Celts.

 

Don't really agree.  Rondo's biggest problem is that his lack of offense can be used against the Celts in the half court, especially in the playoffs.  While he certainly does a lot to help others score, in many cases, his presence on the floor "squeezes" the offense and inhibits the other players.  Teams, at least the smart ones, do not hesitate to double off of of Rondo. 

So while Rondo certainly does more good than bad, his lack of offense is a detriment that many fans do not recognize.   

  I disagree with this. Go on 82games and compare the Celts shooting after the first 10 seconds of the shot clock (which probably qualifies as half court) to the other good teams in the league and it's hard to come to the conclusion that the Celts struggle to get off good shots or score in the half court.

  I would say that Rondo's problem is more his free throw shooting, because the times the offense usually breaks down is the last 1-2 minutes because Rondo's not handling the ball. Also consider that, in spite of not handling the ball for roughly a third of those late game close situations, Rondo led the league in assists in clutch time. obviously he's passing the ball to people who are open enough to score on a regular basis.

  

[chambers]

Paul can pass and score. When he has had scorers on his team they have played great. Peja, Tyson, and West all had some of the best years of their career playing with Paul. He will get the ball to Kevin, Ray, and Paul just like Rondo did. Yet, he will also spread the floor and take over when the offense breaks down way more then Rondo ever could.

CP3 is way more Steve Nash then he is Allen Iverson.

Well, You'd never and will never win a championship with either Los Nash or Iverson....And I doubt we'd win a championship with s swollen headed diva like Paul....Even though Paul is 10 times the player that Iverson or Los Nash is.

CP3 is better then Nash and can play defense. Those Suns teams had enough talent to win but their philosophy was flawed. Even that being said if they dont have a Nash broken nose and a Robert Horry hip check then I think Phoenix wins it all in 2007. It goes to show you that you need a lot to go your way to win. The current big three with Paul and Jermaine, etc. is arguably a more talented team then any of those phenix teams and it is also a team built on defense.

The only way a los Nash team comes close to smelling a championship is if he has the same center that Iverson had when Philly almost won.  Somebody who can erase some of the complete disregard that los Nash has for defense.  Los Nash flopped on that Horry hip check in a way that would have made Ric Flair blush.

Paul is ions better than Iverson or los Nash....But the more diva like he becomes, the more of a distraction he'll be to both his old and whatever his new team is.

Paul is great, a top 10 NBA player.
Steve Nash is a legend-one of the greatest point guards of all time. His Suns were robbed and if he'd stayed the course with the Mavs he would've hoisted at least one trophy.

his critics talk about his defense which is fair enough, but he's still a greater player overall than Chris Paul.
Lets see who does better on the pick and rolls with Amare.

[Bingbangbarros]

“It doesn't matter who scores the points, it's who can get the ball to the scorer.”
  -Larry Bird

I don't know when or where Larry Bird said this (found it on thinkexist), but it expresses how I feel in the Rondo/Paul debates.  I am very impressed with Paul, but I feel like Rondo makes everyone around him better, and I think he can still get better as a young player. 

  I'm a newbie to the board.  Been lurking for a while though.  Go Celts.

 

Don't really agree.  Rondo's biggest problem is that his lack of offense can be used against the Celts in the half court, especially in the playoffs.  While he certainly does a lot to help others score, in many cases, his presence on the floor "squeezes" the offense and inhibits the other players.  Teams, at least the smart ones, do not hesitate to double off of of Rondo. 

So while Rondo certainly does more good than bad, his lack of offense is a detriment that many fans do not recognize.   

So if we are going to turn this into a debate of who is better (Rondo or Paul), it ain't that close.  Or maybe it is if you add some of Rondo's other dimensions (D and Rebounding).  But clearly, Paul is a better player.

Agreed 100% especially against good teams and in the playoffs.

[raynman]

If there is such a stat as Assists Made / Assists Attempted, then we'd clearly see that CP3 is a way better passer than Rondo.. Chris Paul make the utility guys like Aaron gray look good and he made David West an all-star.. Has Rajon made BBD and Jeff Green look good? Did he ever milk a pick and roll with JO, Nenad or even Perkins? Of course not! He's an assist machine because he has 3 great scorers/shooters.. Look, I love Rondo, I love the tenacious D, I love the Grit and intensity, I love those awesome alley-oops in the offseason, but let's be realistic - Chris Paul >>> Rajon Rondo!
And if you'd ask me if I'd like to have CP3 in the Celtics in place of RR, I'd say hell yeah! But again, to be realistic, It'd be a miracle if that happens..

[BballTim]

If there is such a stat as Assists Made / Assists Attempted, then we'd clearly see that CP3 is a way better passer than Rondo.. Chris Paul make the utility guys like Aaron gray look good and he made David West an all-star.. Has Rajon made BBD and Jeff Green look good? Did he ever milk a pick and roll with JO, Nenad or even Perkins? Of course not! He's an assist machine because he has 3 great scorers/shooters.. Look, I love Rondo, I love the tenacious D, I love the Grit and intensity, I love those awesome alley-oops in the offseason, but let's be realistic - Chris Paul >>> Rajon Rondo!
And if you'd ask me if I'd like to have CP3 in the Celtics in place of RR, I'd say hell yeah! But again, to be realistic, It'd be a miracle if that happens..

  Pierce, Allen, Shaq, Green and Krstic all had their highest eFG% and/or TS% of their careers this year, and KG had his 3rd best year in both categories. Unless you can show how CP3 has the same effect on people, I'd say you have which one makes players look better and which one doesn't reversed.

[Finkelskyhook]

Paul can pass and score. When he has had scorers on his team they have played great. Peja, Tyson, and West all had some of the best years of their career playing with Paul. He will get the ball to Kevin, Ray, and Paul just like Rondo did. Yet, he will also spread the floor and take over when the offense breaks down way more then Rondo ever could.

CP3 is way more Steve Nash then he is Allen Iverson.

Well, You'd never and will never win a championship with either Los Nash or Iverson....And I doubt we'd win a championship with s swollen headed diva like Paul....Even though Paul is 10 times the player that Iverson or Los Nash is.

CP3 is better then Nash and can play defense. Those Suns teams had enough talent to win but their philosophy was flawed. Even that being said if they dont have a Nash broken nose and a Robert Horry hip check then I think Phoenix wins it all in 2007. It goes to show you that you need a lot to go your way to win. The current big three with Paul and Jermaine, etc. is arguably a more talented team then any of those phenix teams and it is also a team built on defense.

The only way a los Nash team comes close to smelling a championship is if he has the same center that Iverson had when Philly almost won.  Somebody who can erase some of the complete disregard that los Nash has for defense.  Los Nash flopped on that Horry hip check in a way that would have made Ric Flair blush.

Paul is ions better than Iverson or los Nash....But the more diva like he becomes, the more of a distraction he'll be to both his old and whatever his new team is.

Paul is great, a top 10 NBA player.
Steve Nash is a legend-one of the greatest point guards of all time. His Suns were robbed and if he'd stayed the course with the Mavs he would've hoisted at least one trophy.

his critics talk about his defense which is fair enough, but he's still a greater player overall than Chris Paul.
Lets see who does better on the pick and rolls with Amare.

Please tell me one championship team in NBA history, regardless of how great or average PG they had, won a championship with the complete disregard defensively that los Nash has had his entire career.  That, among other things, is why I would never want to see the "legend" los Nash in a Celtics uniform.

Los Nash could be 10 times better at the pick and roll than Paul is.  Come playoff time, the defensive sieve that los Nash has always come to the forefront.  I'm no big fan of Chris Paul...But cheating the passing lanes to pad your  steals record...ala Paul at his defensive worst...Is a helluva lot better than waving ones hands, stroking greasy hair, occasionally flopping, while barely moving defenively ala Nash at his defensive best.  

Put los Nash on last year's Dallas team and they lose in the finals...If not before.  Put los Nash on Paul's Hornets team and they're not a .500 team.  

Bird's quote is relevent to the discussion between Rondo and Paul.  But that's because Bird was about championships.  Your PG needs to play both ends of the court...Or at least pretend to.

If there is such a stat as Assists Made / Assists Attempted, then we'd clearly see that CP3 is a way better passer than Rondo.. Chris Paul make the utility guys like Aaron gray look good and he made David West an all-star.. Has Rajon made BBD and Jeff Green look good? Did he ever milk a pick and roll with JO, Nenad or even Perkins? Of course not! He's an assist machine because he has 3 great scorers/shooters.. Look, I love Rondo, I love the tenacious D, I love the Grit and intensity, I love those awesome alley-oops in the offseason, but let's be realistic - Chris Paul >>> Rajon Rondo!
And if you'd ask me if I'd like to have CP3 in the Celtics in place of RR, I'd say hell yeah! But again, to be realistic, It'd be a miracle if that happens..

  Pierce, Allen, Shaq, Green and Krstic all had their highest eFG% and/or TS% of their careers this year, and KG had his 3rd best year in both categories. Unless you can show how CP3 has the same effect on people, I'd say you have which one makes players look better and which one doesn't reversed.

Based on the team that Paul took to the playoffs last year, I'd say that he's at least equal to Rondo, if not slightly better at making his teammates better.  I'd give Rondo a slight but clear edge defensively. 

[CelticsFanNC]

  As I have said in other threads I don't care if we trade Rondo as long as it is for a clear upgrade now and in the future.

  What I don't get is how people are so convinced Rondo, a guy who has already won a title with this team and come close on other occasions cannot get it done but Chris Paul, a guy who we don't even know for a fact can fit into this style of play is clearly the answer.

  This team thrives on ball movement.  Pierce, Allen and Garnett can no longer create offense for themselves with any consistency.  Chris Paul in recent years has had and needed to have the ball in his hands a lot.  That is the antithesis of how the Boston Celtics play their best basketball not only in recent years but throughout their long and successful history.  

  Why is everyone so convinced Paul is the answer and Rondo is not?  Paul might come here and not fit in at all or at very least take a half a season to fit in with a veteran group of players who are used to playing and thriving playing in a way that is kind of foreign to Chris Paul.  Maybe he can fit in beautifully but the fact is we don't know that and it is almost certain it would take some time if it ever happened.

  The grass is always greener I guess....well until you find out it's not.

[jr_3421]

   What I don't get is how people are so convinced Rondo, a guy who has already won a title with this team and come close on other occasions cannot get it done but Chris Paul, a guy who we don't even know for a fact can fit into this style of play is clearly the answer.

I think the answer to this question is that Chris Paul will attract more free agents than Rondo will. I am a huge Rondo supporter but if the rumors are true that Dwight Howard really wants to play with either Chris Paul or Deron Williams, I'm all for taking that chance.

[RAcker]

What if it's a guy -- like Larry himself -- who can both score *and* set up his teammates?

Exactly my thoughts.  I think Larry always prided himself on being a guy that could do either at any time and always being unselfish enough not to care which got the job done.

[BballTim]

If there is such a stat as Assists Made / Assists Attempted, then we'd clearly see that CP3 is a way better passer than Rondo.. Chris Paul make the utility guys like Aaron gray look good and he made David West an all-star.. Has Rajon made BBD and Jeff Green look good? Did he ever milk a pick and roll with JO, Nenad or even Perkins? Of course not! He's an assist machine because he has 3 great scorers/shooters.. Look, I love Rondo, I love the tenacious D, I love the Grit and intensity, I love those awesome alley-oops in the offseason, but let's be realistic - Chris Paul >>> Rajon Rondo!
And if you'd ask me if I'd like to have CP3 in the Celtics in place of RR, I'd say hell yeah! But again, to be realistic, It'd be a miracle if that happens..

  Pierce, Allen, Shaq, Green and Krstic all had their highest eFG% and/or TS% of their careers this year, and KG had his 3rd best year in both categories. Unless you can show how CP3 has the same effect on people, I'd say you have which one makes players look better and which one doesn't reversed.

Based on the team that Paul took to the playoffs last year, I'd say that he's at least equal to Rondo, if not slightly better at making his teammates better.  I'd give Rondo a slight but clear edge defensively. 

  I don't think that the teams that finished 9th or 10th in the west were really more talented than NO.

[pearljammer10]

“It doesn't matter who scores the points, it's who can get the ball to the scorer.”
  -Larry Bird

I don't know when or where Larry Bird said this (found it on thinkexist), but it expresses how I feel in the Rondo/Paul debates.  I am very impressed with Paul, but I feel like Rondo makes everyone around him better, and I think he can still get better as a young player.  

  I'm a newbie to the board.  Been lurking for a while though.  Go Celts.

 

You get a tommy point from me my friend...Extremely well said by Bird, my thoughts exactly.

[dtrader]

Paul can pass and score. When he has had scorers on his team they have played great. Peja, Tyson, and West all had some of the best years of their career playing with Paul. He will get the ball to Kevin, Ray, and Paul just like Rondo did. Yet, he will also spread the floor and take over when the offense breaks down way more then Rondo ever could.

CP3 is way more Steve Nash then he is Allen Iverson.

Well, You'd never and will never win a championship with either Los Nash or Iverson....And I doubt we'd win a championship with s swollen headed diva like Paul....Even though Paul is 10 times the player that Iverson or Los Nash is.

CP3 is better then Nash and can play defense. Those Suns teams had enough talent to win but their philosophy was flawed. Even that being said if they dont have a Nash broken nose and a Robert Horry hip check then I think Phoenix wins it all in 2007. It goes to show you that you need a lot to go your way to win. The current big three with Paul and Jermaine, etc. is arguably a more talented team then any of those phenix teams and it is also a team built on defense.

The only way a los Nash team comes close to smelling a championship is if he has the same center that Iverson had when Philly almost won.  Somebody who can erase some of the complete disregard that los Nash has for defense.  Los Nash flopped on that Horry hip check in a way that would have made Ric Flair blush.

Paul is ions better than Iverson or los Nash....But the more diva like he becomes, the more of a distraction he'll be to both his old and whatever his new team is.

Paul is great, a top 10 NBA player.
Steve Nash is a legend-one of the greatest point guards of all time. His Suns were robbed and if he'd stayed the course with the Mavs he would've hoisted at least one trophy.

his critics talk about his defense which is fair enough, but he's still a greater player overall than Chris Paul.
Lets see who does better on the pick and rolls with Amare.

You can argue that Nash will be remembered as a better player than CP3, but I dont see how you could say that he's a better player than CP3 NOW. Nash is TERRIBLE at defense, where CP is good (and some games great).  CP is a much better rebounder as well.  Nash is a better shooter, and CP has an advantage as a slasher/finisher.  They're both elite PGs, but I dont think it makes sense to rank an older player with a clear weakness over a younger player with a more polished all around game.

I also dont agree with people calling CP a "diva".  He was the face of NO throughout all the tough times after Katrina, and has been a pillar of that community.  Now he's entering free agency, and he wants to play with his friends, in his favorite city.  I really dont think wanting to work with your friends or work in a city that you like is being a "diva".  If it is, most people in the world are divas.

[Finkelskyhook]

You can argue that NashYou will be remembered as a better player than CP3, but I dont see how you could say that he's a better player than CP3 NOW. Nash is TERRIBLE at defense, where CP is good (and some games great).  CP is a much better rebounder as well.  Nash is a better shooter, and CP has an advantage as a slasher/finisher.  They're both elite PGs, but I dont think it makes sense to rank an older player with a clear weakness over a younger player with a more polished all around game.

I also dont agree with people calling CP a "diva".  He was the face of NO throughout all the tough times after Katrina, and has been a pillar of that community.  Now he's entering free agency, and he wants to play with his friends, in his favorite city.  I really dont think wanting to work with your friends or work in a city that you like is being a "diva".  If it is, most people in the world are divas.

I would argue that Paul has always been a better player than los Nash.  Regardless of what point they were / are in their careers.  It's not like los Nash just suddenly had a disregard for defense.  It's not like he's regressed.  Los Nash could probably slaughter Paul or Rondo in a game or horse...Or if the NBA game was played like 6 on 6 in small town Iowa....Unfortunately, there are two ends of the court in the NBA.  Los Nash has always played on only one.  

There's a thread on the blog about loyalty.  While Paul is on the Hornet's payroll, he should be giving his all to the Hornets.  Not grandstanding...Not leaking where his favorite city is or who he needs to play next to for satisfaction.  Those are qualities similar to last years shameless divas, the messiah and the snitchster.  I thought his effort and at least publicly, his demeanor last season in carrying his team to the playoffs was admirable.  I find nothing admirable about manipulating his team's management to get his way.  In the real world, if somebody, while under somebody's payroll, publically stated that they wanted to work for somebody else, they'd probably be fired.